Hello,
> If you are incapable of understanding the difference between an historical
> text which was of its time
> has great historical significance, contains both transcendental and offensive
> content, and is
> significant and/or sacred to literally billions of people all over the world,
> vs
On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 10:18:12AM -0400, Jonathan Kamens wrote:
>
>I also think that certain things he has said here, and how he has said
>them (for example, in his first message, "Can people who are offended by
>the existence of systemd request to drop it from debian?"), imply that h
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 1171 (new: 0)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 129 (new: 0)
Total number of packages reques
Iustin Pop writes:
> And again, I want to make sure it's clear what standard we hold
> ourselves to, here.
The standard that we hold *ourselves* to is considerably more than just
"don't be racist" for any definition of racist. The code of conduct we
passed via GR says:
1. Be respectful
Salvo,
If you are incapable of understanding the difference between an
historical text which was of its time, has great historical
significance, contains both transcendental and offensive content, and is
significant and/or sacred to literally billions of people all over the
world, vs. a moder
On 2025-07-17 17:37:43, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2025-07-17 08:57:12 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
> [...]
> > racism by definition has to involve a power gradient, and that
> > definitionally something is only racist if aimed at a disfavored group
> > by a group with more social power.
> [.
On 2025-07-17 08:57:12, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Iustin Pop writes:
> > On 2025-07-17 09:50:09, Jonathan Kamens wrote:
>
> >> Whether there can be racism against white people is an incredibly
> >> complex question with a ton of baggage, about which many PhD
> >> dissertations have been written and I
Hello,
> You do understand fortunes-{it,scn}-off is not a sacred text?
You do understand that suggesting that killing kids is good is
extremely disturbing to most people?
> To answer your question directly, no, I will not be opening an RC bug
> against the bible.
Not "the bible", but "the debia
On 17/07/25 23:41, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Hello,
Beato chi prenderà i tuoi piccoli bambini e li sbatterà contro la roccia!
Debian is shipping the bible, which contains the above quote and many
many other similar ones.
Will you be opening an RC bug against it?
I agree there's a case to be made
Hello,
> Beato chi prenderà i tuoi piccoli bambini e li sbatterà contro la roccia!
Debian is shipping the bible, which contains the above quote and many
many other similar ones.
Will you be opening an RC bug against it?
> You are indeed. It is very relevant, it is just not *much more* relevant
On 17/07/25 21:57, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Hello,
I had started preparing a PR for removing stuff like that from sicilian
offensive, because that only has a handful of fortunes and I could
review them one by one and research them on the internet if I wasn't
sure if they should be interpreted lik
ACTUAL SOLUTION
===
1. We close #1109165 #1109167 (and #1109166)
2. We create RC bugs targeting forky, to review and clean up the packages
3. DPL and/or Release teams are warmly invited to publicly reply to
this email and say whether they accept this solution or not. I signed
a thing
Hello,
> I had started preparing a PR for removing stuff like that from sicilian
> offensive, because that only has a handful of fortunes and I could
> review them one by one and research them on the internet if I wasn't
> sure if they should be interpreted like I thought (I haven't finished
> thi
On Thursday, July 17, 2025 11:12:14 AM Mountain Standard Time Soren Stoutner
wrote:
> the apparent lack of anyone having pointed to any specific content sill
> remaining that is unacceptable for Debian.
After writing this line, I read further in the thread where specific entries
were identified.
On Thursday, July 17, 2025 2:49:12 AM Mountain Standard Time Didier 'OdyX'
Raboud wrote:
> > > I think both Andrew and Paul reflect the project consensus (again, not
> > > unanimity) that was reached about the fortunes-off package in english
> >
> > I haven't seen any vote. Am I missing it?
>
>
On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 10:18:49AM +0200, Alex wrote:
> >> Removing the package from future releases will not remove it from users
> >> systems, and people who want to install it still have plenty of easy ways
> >> to do
> >> so. I understand your point of view but maybe there are better battles
On Thursday, July 17, 2025 2:45:44 AM Mountain Standard Time Antoine Le
Gonidec wrote:
> I get where the confusion is coming from. I am indeed saying that
> sexism, racism, etc. are never OK. But that jokes targeted at the
> dominant group are not racism or sexism.
>
> There is no such thing, in
On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 05:37:43PM +, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2025-07-17 08:57:12 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
> [...]
> > racism by definition has to involve a power gradient, and that
> > definitionally something is only racist if aimed at a disfavored group
> > by a group with more
On 2025-07-17 08:57:12 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
[...]
racism by definition has to involve a power gradient, and that
definitionally something is only racist if aimed at a disfavored
group by a group with more social power.
[...]
Conversely, a problem I've had to directly struggle wit
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Steffen Moeller
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, moel...@debian.org
* Package name: python-ihm
Version : 2.7
* URL : https://github.com/ihmwg/python-ihm
* License : MIT/X
Programming Lang: Python
Description
On 17/07/25 14:30, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
Sure, make a pull request to remove them.
I had started preparing a PR for removing stuff like that from sicilian
offensive, because that only has a handful of fortunes and I could
review them one by one and research them on the internet if I wasn't
su
Le Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 08:57:12AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Iustin Pop writes:
> > No, it's not off-topic, or not entirely. The post I replied to was saying
> > "it's fine to be racist against white people".
>
> No, it was not. It was saying that racism by definition has to involve a
> pow
Iustin Pop writes:
> On 2025-07-17 09:50:09, Jonathan Kamens wrote:
>> Whether there can be racism against white people is an incredibly
>> complex question with a ton of baggage, about which many PhD
>> dissertations have been written and I'm sure many more will be.
>> This particular discussio
Hello,
> maintaining packages; I think it's unfair and unhelpful to take
> pot-shots at other DDs over how many packages they are listed as
> maintainer of.
I fully agree with you.
However I think that if one has time to harass me, one should have
time to reply to me when I ask for help. It seem
Hello,
> You can't blame the community team for not doing something 20 years ago
> because there wasn't a community team 20 years ago.
The community team wasn't created last week either…
> It's also unreasonable to say the only time a bug can be reported in a
> program is when a new maintainer t
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Luigi Gangitano
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
* Package name: squid-cachemgr-js
Version : 0.1~git20220722
Upstream Contact: Amos Jeffries
* URL : https://github.com/yadij/cachemgr.js
* License : GPL-2+
Pr
Am Do, Jul 17, 2025 at 15:30:45 +0100 schrieb Jonathan Dowland:
Take a break. Is this the line in the sand you want to draw?
Yes, it would certainly be my line. And I would leave Debian in disgust.
Stephan
--
|If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it.|
On 2025-07-17 09:50:09, Jonathan Kamens wrote:
> Whether there can be racism against white people is an incredibly complex
> question with a ton of baggage, about which many PhD dissertations have been
> written and I'm sure many more will be.
>
> This particular discussion we are engaged in here
Hello,
it seems you are assuming my bad faith.
> This lack of regard for other people's carefully considered opinions
I'm sorry but I strongly doubt that the person who opened the bugs and
the person who reopened the bugs even bothered to read what's inside
those packages.
Asking for removal wi
I think you need to take a step back and calm down a bit really to
assess the situation more clearly.
You can't blame the community team for not doing something 20 years ago
because there wasn't a community team 20 years ago.
It's also unreasonable to say the only time a bug can be reported i
Whether there can be racism against white people is an incredibly
complex question with a ton of baggage, about which many PhD
dissertations have been written and I'm sure many more will be.
This particular discussion we are engaged in here is hard enough without
going down this particular rab
On 7/17/25 9:15 AM, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
I don't believe Salvo is angry about how his package is "not wanted
here" anymore, but how the process is handled in the first place.
That is not at all the impression I get.
Salvo seems to be upset about how the request to remove the package has
been
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Steffen Moeller
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, moel...@debian.org
* Package name: python-ihm
Version : 2.7
* URL : https://github.com/ihmwg/python-ihm
* License : MIT/X
Programming Lang: Python
Description
On 2025-07-17 11:45:44, Antoine Le Gonidec wrote:
> Le Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 07:30:46PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez a écrit :
> > I have a very hard time understanding how in two adjacent paragraphs you
> > can say both "Sexism, racism and such are not, never were, and can not
> > be funny." and also
Salvo Tomaselli writes:
> Also I couldn't help but notice that the DD who opened the issue maintains 0
> packages. Just something I noticed.
There are plenty of people who do valuable work in Debian other than
maintaining packages; I think it's unfair and unhelpful to take
pot-shots at other DDs
On 7/17/25 1:18 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:47:36 +0200, Salvo Tomaselli
wrote:
since you agreed to it I will reply publicly.
Thank you for your open words and for all the work you’ve put into this
package. I understand that it’s frustrating when you feel your effort
isn’t
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Kohei Sendai
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, kouhei.sen...@gmail.com
* Package name: librust-ndarray-dev
Version : 0.16.1
Upstream Contact: Ulrik Sverdrup “bluss”
* URL : https://github.com/rust-ndarray/ndarray
* Lic
Sure, make a pull request to remove them.
But should stuff like this be blanket removed?
> - Come fa sesso un esperto di UNIX?
> - Unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ;
> more ; yes ; umount ; sleep .
> -- Dr. Zap
The real work is stuff like this:
https://codeberg.org/fo
Salvo,
With the hope of being able to give you a hand as I'd really like to
keep both the italian and the sicilian *offensive* fortunes package in
Debian, I went peeking at the package and, unless I'm completely missing
something, the second offensive italian fortune says that women's "no"s
s
Hello,
> This has nothing to do with you.
Why was the email in my inbox and not in yours then?
> We're all volunteers, so are the RT and the CT, please drop that line of
> argument.
Indeed we are. And? Does that make it ok for people to waste other
people's time?
Unless I do any violation of t
Your message dated Thu, 17 Jul 2025 08:02:14 +
with message-id
and subject line RE: Bug#1108643: Trixie Keyboard Shortcut Issues within VMWare
has caused the Debian Bug report #1108643,
regarding in VMware with open-vm-tools-desktop, XFCE becomes unresponsive after
repeated copy/paste
to be
Thanks,
I doubt it will happen. But I'm glad that you are having a good time.
Best
Il giorno gio 17 lug 2025 alle ore 11:52 Tiago Bortoletto Vaz
ha scritto:
>
> Hi Salvo,
>
> I have nothing helpful to add to the discussion, but I'd like to say
> that I value a lot the time you spend in Debian,
Hello,
> I get where the confusion is coming from. I am indeed saying that
> sexism, racism, etc. are never OK. But that jokes targeted at the
> dominant group are not racism or sexism.
I can see the point but it's a wrong simplification in my opinion.
A family member of mine is transgender and
Oh I've embraced it, which is why I have been fixing things.
I don't see how making me stop doing that job is going to make debian
more welcoming, since nobody has ever complained about it, and once I
stop doing it nobody will be doing it.
So the consequence is -1 contributor, but is it going to
On 2025-07-17 at 06:18, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:47:36 +0200, Salvo Tomaselli
> wrote:
>
>> since you agreed to it I will reply publicly.
>>
>>> Thank you for your open words and for all the work you’ve put
>>> into this package. I understand that it’s frustrating when you
>>
Great! I'll move all my fltk-related stuff there. Thanks for setting it
up.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:45:44 +0200
Antoine Le Gonidec wrote:
>
> Does that make it clearer where I am standing on this topic?
AFAIU:
All animals are equal, but cis animals are less equal than others.
Does this summarize it correctly?
--
kind regards
Frank
pgpuVZDf3ODs6.pgp
Description: Open
El jue, 17 jul 2025 a las 10:00, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud
() escribió:
> Let me offer you a different perspective: through the past conversations
> around the offensive variant of the fortunes packages (in english), the
> project has converged towards considering that this is not a package that it
> wa
On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:47:36 +0200, Salvo Tomaselli
wrote:
>since you agreed to it I will reply publicly.
>
>> Thank you for your open words and for all the work you’ve put into this
>> package. I understand that it’s frustrating when you feel your effort
>> isn’t fully recognized or valued. I wan
Hi Salvo,
I have nothing helpful to add to the discussion, but I'd like to say
that I value a lot the time you spend in Debian, and I'm sorry that you
decided not joining DebConf this year. Here I've had some pleasant
conversations with people I don't get on with via email, which really
shows how
Le jeudi, 17 juillet 2025, 11.01:05 h CEST Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
> Also I couldn't help but notice that the DD who opened the issue maintains 0
> packages. Just something I noticed.
Non-uploading DDs are DDs. And can be delegated. Please let's not make this
argument ad-hominem.
> > A last po
Alexandre Detiste writes:
> I ll adopt xdiskusage and move it there.
Great, thanks! I've created https://salsa.debian.org/fltk-team and
https://tracker.debian.org/teams/fltk/ (teams+f...@tracker.debian.org)
and added you to both; please feel free to take it from there at your
convenience.
--
Hello,
since you agreed to it I will reply publicly.
> Thank you for your open words and for all the work you’ve put into this
> package. I understand that it’s frustrating when you feel your effort
> isn’t fully recognized or valued. I want to reassure you: your
> contributions are appreciated.
Le Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 07:30:46PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez a écrit :
> I have a very hard time understanding how in two adjacent paragraphs you
> can say both "Sexism, racism and such are not, never were, and can not
> be funny." and also "making fun of cis-het white males can be offensive,
> and
For the past 20 years debian has shipped offensive content in the
non-offensive section.
2 years ago I started to work to rectify the situation.
Where was the community team for those 20 years?
Where are they now?
Why are they refusing to help?
Why is the reaction to waste my time instead of a
In data giovedì 17 luglio 2025 10:00:26 Ora legale dell’Europa centrale,
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud ha scritto:
> I'm not sure why this is on d-devel and CC'ed to leader@, but let me try to
> answer in simple terms, as a random DD.
Community team is a DPL delegation.
> they are a group of DDs trying to
> It's problematic because Debian would be providing its huge platform to
> offensive/harmful content.
Have you checked the popcon?
fortunes-scn-off has 5 installs, 3 of which are myself
fortunes-it-off has 85 installs, 3 of which are myself
Would you define these numbers "huge"?
--
Salvo Tom
Hello,
On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 10:38:29AM +0200, Hanno 'Rince' Wagner wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2025, Alex wrote:
>
> > > problem, when we have the package - as other thousand packages too -
> > > and let the admin decide wether he wants to install it?
> >
> > It's problematic becaus
>> Removing the package from future releases will not remove it from users
>> systems, and people who want to install it still have plenty of easy ways to
>> do
>> so. I understand your point of view but maybe there are better battles to
>> fight for.
>
> I do not think this analogy is correct.
>
Hi,
Great idea.
I ll adopt xdiskusage and move it there.
(Or you can if you're faster)
Greetings
Le jeu. 17 juil. 2025, 09:48, Aaron M. Ucko a écrit :
> Greetings.
>
> I am thinking of (finally) establishing a packaging team and associated
> Salsa namespace for FLTK proper and any reverse de
I'm not sure why this is on d-devel and CC'ed to leader@, but let me try to
answer in simple terms, as a random DD.
Le mercredi, 16 juillet 2025, 19.42:06 h CEST Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
> QUESTIONS
> =
>
> 1. Can the community team force me to remove a package, even though I
> did not
Greetings.
I am thinking of (finally) establishing a packaging team and associated
Salsa namespace for FLTK proper and any reverse dependencies that care
to join it, particularly those that aren't already team-maintained. (As
such, I'm explicitly addressing only maintainers of individually
mainta
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