On 2025-07-17 08:57:12, Russ Allbery wrote: > Iustin Pop <ius...@debian.org> writes: > > On 2025-07-17 09:50:09, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > > >> Whether there can be racism against white people is an incredibly > >> complex question with a ton of baggage, about which many PhD > >> dissertations have been written and I'm sure many more will be. > > >> This particular discussion we are engaged in here is hard enough > >> without going down this particular rabbit-hole. It's off-topic for this > >> list, and it's unlikely that anybody's mind will be changed on this > >> particular issue by a discussion here. So can we please, just… not get > >> into it any further here? > > > No, it's not off-topic, or not entirely. The post I replied to was saying > > "it's fine to be racist against white people". > > No, it was not. It was saying that racism by definition has to involve a > power gradient, and that definitionally something is only racist if aimed > at a disfavored group by a group with more social power.
Yes, that I understand (that some people hold to this definition of racism). I want to make sure I understand what definition the project holds itself to. > You may disagree vigorously with this definition -- many people do! -- but > this is a real definition of racism that is widely used in both academic > and casual contexts by many other people. Sure, and yes I fully disagree with that. But I want to make sure I understand what the project stance is. > Please note that everyone I have ever encountered who holds to that > definition *also* believes that racism is not the only bad thing that > someone can possibly do, that just because something is not racist doesn't > mean that it's okay, and that there are many discriminatory things that > people can do that are not good and that should not be socially > acceptable. The argument over the definition of the specific label > "racism" does not change that. > > As Jonathan said, this is an argument over which many doctoral theses have > been written, and I absolutely guarantee you that no one's mind will be > changed about the definition of racism in this thread. The people who > prefer that definition have heard all these arguments before, many many > times, and still believe in that definition. The people who dislike that > definition dislike it intensely and are very unlikely to change their > minds about that, certainly not due to a debian-devel thread. I've explicitly said I don't want to change anyone's mind. I just want to know what stance this project has. iustin
