Le jeudi, 17 juillet 2025, 11.01:05 h CEST Salvo Tomaselli a écrit : > Also I couldn't help but notice that the DD who opened the issue maintains 0 > packages. Just something I noticed.
Non-uploading DDs are DDs. And can be delegated. Please let's not make this
argument ad-hominem.
> > A last point about your questions: obviously, the sudden urgency is that
> > the project is getting really close to migrating all packages in testing
> > to our next stable release.
>
> Ok, and why did they have to wait 20 years for this, until I worked on it
> and then suddenly wake up now?
This has nothing to do with you.
> Where do I send the bill for my wasted time?
We're all volunteers, so are the RT and the CT, please drop that line of
argument.
> > Let me offer you a different perspective: through the past conversations
> > around the offensive variant of the fortunes packages (in english), the
> > project has converged towards considering that this is not a package that
> > it wants to ship to its users.
>
> I asked for help to review all the thousands quotes. I am ok with removing
> the really offensive ones, but there's also many that are just silly jokes.
> > I think both Andrew and Paul reflect the project consensus (again, not
> > unanimity) that was reached about the fortunes-off package in english
>
> I haven't seen any vote. Am I missing it?
No. The Debian project reaches consensus in lots of ways. GRs are just one of
the (most formal) ways. There was no vote, but as I read it, there's
consensus.
> > Now, I think you have two options:
> > A) (…)
> >
> > B) (…)
>
> If you tell me who to bill for my wasted time while the community and
> release team took 20 years before this suddenly became of life of death
> importance, I'll be happy to get over it.
It's not of "life or death" importance, obviously not, you're being hyperbolic
here.
Important points might have been missed in this conversation (but linger
behind what we're trying to say):
* there's no inherent right for a package to be shipped in Debian (any suite)
* there's no inherent right for a package to be released in Debian stable
* the moral and ethical standards to which the Debian project holds itself to
evolve over time
* a package that was shipped in Debian 20 years ago doesn't inherit a specific
privilege to continue being shipped by Debian today
* not shipping a package in Debian doesn't remove its content (or datasets)
from the Internet (nor from the oldstable, snapshots, software archives, etc).
> Normally if someone who doesn't even have a package installed reports a
> grave bug that cannot be reproduced, it is completely normal to close the
> bug and move on.
>
> But if that someone belongs to the community team that is not possible.
That's obviously not true. You closed the bug. It was re-opened by a Release
Team member who made it a Release Team topic. You continue to make this a
Community Team issue; it is not.
> So let's not hide the truth talking about hats and not hats. It was
> done by the community team.
It was filed by Andrew, who happens to be a CT member. But for the sake of
argument, let's consider it a CT decision. Fact is, it's now being enforced
(for trixie) by the Release Team for reasons of their own: it occurs that they
agree with the Community Team on that topic.
We can, and should be having conversations about the role we want the
Community Team to have in the project, but that bug (or thread) is not the
right place.
Again, I understand the frustration of getting a package you spent muscle and
sweat maintaining on your free time being kicked out of Debian. I really do.
But really, we're talking about a dataset of jokes, in a package explicitly
marked as offensive. To put it bluntly: Debian doesn't need to ship this to
its users (who can very well find said jokes [and worse] from various places
on the internet.
If you have the possibility, I'd finally encourage you to leave this thread
for a day of two, sleep over it, talk about it with various people off lists
and get back to it with a refreshed mind to evaluate the available options
that you have for these packages.
This is my last message of that (already too heated) thread. J'ai dit.
--
OdyX
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