On 7/17/25 9:15 AM, Hakan Bayındır wrote:
I don't believe Salvo is angry about how his package is "not wanted
here" anymore, but how the process is handled in the first place.
That is not at all the impression I get.
Salvo seems to be upset about how the request to remove the package has
been handled, about the decision to remove the package, and about how
the decision to remove the package was made (and, indeed, whether that
decision was "made" in any real sense).
While he is certainly entitled to have and express these concerns, in
doing so he has not adhered to the "Assume good faith" CoC rule.
I also think that certain things he has said here, and how he has said
them (for example, in his first message, "Can people who are offended by
the existence of systemd request to drop it from debian?"), imply that
he does not take seriously people's concerns about the contents of the
fortune-*-off packages. This lack of regard for other people's carefully
considered opinions seems to be out of alignment with both the "Be
respectful" and "Be collaborative" CoC rules.
Furthermore, he has used both irrelevant arguments (the amount of time
he has spent cleaning up offensive fortunes in the main package has zero
bearing on the question of whether Debian should ship the fortune-*-off
packages) and, as others have pointed out, /ad hominem/ arguments in the
discussion here. These do not help bring people over to his point of
view, and the latter certainly violates the "Be respectful" and "Be
collaborative" CoC rules.
Salvo's conduct during this discussion has made it difficult to engage
in a productive way with the substance of what actually needs to be
decided. However, leaving all that aside, it seems to me that how to
resolve this is actually quite straightforward:
1) Is there any possibility that the release team will reconsider the
decision to stop shipping the fortune-*-off packages?
2) If the answer to (1) is yes, then in my opinion it is reasonable not
to make this a release-blocking bug for Trixie. Make it a normal bug,
have the discussion with the release team, and if at the end of that
discussion the decision to remove the package stands, then if there's
still time to remove it from Trixie it can be removed, and otherwise it
can be removed from the next release. I agree with Salvo on this: if
this package has been shipping for 22 years than it is hard to make the
case that there is a legitimate argument for it suddenly being urgent to
remove it now.
2) If the answer to (1) is no, then there is no reason not to remove
fortune-it-off now, so it should be removed now. Salvo is entitled to
disagree with the decision, but if it's not his decision to make, and it
has been made, then it should be carried out.
jik
