Re: New contributor experience

Am Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 01:39:06AM +0500 schrieb Andrey Rakhmatullin: > > There is the [MoM][0] in the Debian Med-Team. > > Is or was? Is > According to that page, last updated 3 years ago, while there was some > significant activity in 2014-2015 (10 years ago) it died out around 2017. The prog

Re: New contributor experience

On Wednesday, June 18, 2025 3:35:04 AM Mountain Standard Time Marc Haber wrote: > Then you surely can point me to documentation about how I, as the MR > submitter am supposed to improve the MR. I am not sure whether just > pushing my fixed code to the branch that I submitted an MR for will > autom

Re: New contributor experience

Hello, Am 21.06.25 um 22:39 schrieb Andrey Rakhmatullin: On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 08:54:08PM +0200, Alex wrote: We get a question of "this is #d-mentors, how do I get a mentor assigned" on #d-mentors every several months, for which the answer is always "there is no such thing, please ask specif

Re: New contributor experience

There is the [MoM][0] in the Debian Med-Team. Is or was? According to that page, last updated 3 years ago, while there was some significant activity in 2014-2015 (10 years ago) it died out around 2017. Since Andreas mentioned it earlier in the thread, I _assume_ it is still alive (i.e. membe

Re: New contributor experience

On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 08:54:08PM +0200, Alex wrote: We get a question of "this is #d-mentors, how do I get a mentor assigned" on #d-mentors every several months, for which the answer is always "there is no such thing, please ask specific questions". But is the statement that "there is no suc

Re: New contributor experience

We get a question of "this is #d-mentors, how do I get a mentor assigned" on #d-mentors every several months, for which the answer is always "there is no such thing, please ask specific questions". But is the statement that "there is no such thing" factual? There is the [MoM][0] in the Debian M

Re: New contributor experience

On Fri, 2025-06-20 at 19:36 +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 03:59:38PM +0200, Alex wrote: > > > Debian Mentors as a sub project of Debian already exists. While generally > > > used > > > for those wishing review and also sponsorship of a package, we also have a > > > mai

Re: New contributor experience

On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 03:59:38PM +0200, Alex wrote: Debian Mentors as a sub project of Debian already exists. While generally used for those wishing review and also sponsorship of a package, we also have a mailing list for all those who need help with their existing or new contribution to Debia

Re: New contributor experience

On Fri, 2025-06-20 at 15:59 +0200, Alex wrote: > > Debian Mentors as a sub project of Debian already exists. While generally > > used > > for those wishing review and also sponsorship of a package, we also have a > > mailing list for all those who need help with their existing or new > > contributi

Re: New contributor experience

> Debian Mentors as a sub project of Debian already exists. While generally used > for those wishing review and also sponsorship of a package, we also have a > mailing list for all those who need help with their existing or new > contribution > to Debian. We have been open for business for many ma

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 02:51:02PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: How about force pushes after doing rebase -i to squash fixups? I have been told to NEVER do that, but the one time I accidentally did it, it just worked. This was the blanket advice people were giving 15 years ago, but nowadays most

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 02:29:49PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: > The typical Github/Gitlab workflow encourages having a separation between > two categories of branches: > > - stable, "public", safe to reference and will not be force-pushed > (for example "main" or "0.2.x" or "debian/latest") >

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 at 14:29:05 +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: discussion on lines of code within the MR can become stale when you push new commits that change the very lines (but the history is kept), and the discussion can be "resolved" (hidden, as no longer relevant; but still there). my

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 02:29:05PM +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: Am 18. Juni 2025 12:35:04 MESZ schrieb Marc Haber : On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 13:42:18 -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: I am not sure whether just pushing my fixed code to the branch that I submitted an MR for will automatically upda

Re: New contributor experience

Am 18. Juni 2025 12:35:04 MESZ schrieb Marc Haber : >On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 13:42:18 -0700, Soren Stoutner >wrote: >> >I am not sure whether just >pushing my fixed code to the branch that I submitted an MR for will >automatically update the MR it will. in forges like gitlab (or GitHub), MRs (PRs)

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 13:42:18 -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: >Regarding working with patch submissions, I greatly prefer an MR. I almost >never merge a request without requesting changes, or at least clarification. >Having the ability to highlight specific lines of code and start a thread >discu

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 2025-06-18 at 00:40 +0200, Alex wrote: > > any solutions > > on what the Debian community can do to improve the new contributor > > experience. > > Hi everyone > > I've been following this thread with great interest from the very > beginning and can relate to the many good points raised

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 23:15:55 +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: >I've seen some of this same sentiment in discussions about >bugs.debian.org. People think that having a hard-to-use bug tracker >will keep the "noobs" away and maintain a higher quality of bug >reports and discussions among the people who

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 20:38:45 +, Jeremy Stanley wrote: >On 2025-06-17 20:31:31 +0300 (+0300), Otto Kekäläinen wrote: >[...] >> The big question here you seem to avoid commenting on is what is >> the workflow you expect the next generation to seriously adopt? >[...] > >Perhaps playing devil's a

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue Jun 17, 2025 at 7:31 PM CEST, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: The big question here you seem to avoid commenting on is what is the workflow you expect the next generation to seriously adopt? Any plans to write a new e-mail client and then ask e.g. university students to start learning it? For the

Re: Let's make it visible when a package has no maintainer scripts (Re: New contributor experience)

On 2025-06-17 18:37, Charles Plessy wrote: > By the way I wish there were as simple mechanisms to signal to all users (not > just developers) whether a Debian package has maintainer scripts or not, and > issuing a warning when the upgrade of a third-party package adds a new > maintainer script. Ma

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 11:15:55PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > You are aware that you can send e-mail to a MR on GitHub and to a PR > on GitLab and pretty much every Forge supports both email > notifications and email replies? > > The only feature currently missing in GitLab is to have the > n

Let's make it visible when a package has no maintainer scripts (Re: New contributor experience)

Le Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 07:59:42AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o a écrit : > > Can we say that the Debian package maintainers are reviewing their > pull requests at *least* as rigorously as kernel maintainers? We had > better hope so, because Debian package scripts get run as root By the way I wish there

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 11:15:55PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > I've seen some of this same sentiment in discussions about > bugs.debian.org. People think that having a hard-to-use bug tracker > will keep the "noobs" away and maintain a higher quality of bug > reports and discussions among the p

Re: New contributor experience

any solutions on what the Debian community can do to improve the new contributor experience. Hi everyone I've been following this thread with great interest from the very beginning and can relate to the many good points raised herein throughout. I'll try to make a suggestion as a very new co

Re: New contributor experience

> [...] > > The big question here you seem to avoid commenting on is what is > > the workflow you expect the next generation to seriously adopt? > [...] > > Perhaps playing devil's advocate a bit, but why do you assume that > young people are incapable of learning and using working, > established s

Re: New contributor experience

On 2025-06-17 13:42:18 -0700 (-0700), Soren Stoutner wrote: [...] I know that not all the people who prefer to use an email patch workflow believe what is being discussed above. Some prefer it because it fits their taste or is what they are used to. [...] Regarding working with patch submissio

Re: New contributor experience

On 2025-06-17 20:31:31 +0300 (+0300), Otto Kekäläinen wrote: [...] The big question here you seem to avoid commenting on is what is the workflow you expect the next generation to seriously adopt? [...] Perhaps playing devil's advocate a bit, but why do you assume that young people are incapabl

Re: New contributor experience

On Tuesday, June 17, 2025 1:15:55 PM Mountain Standard Time Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > I just merged a first-time contributor MR in > https://salsa.debian.org/salsa-ci-team/pipeline/-/merge_requests/614, > and I think it was good quality. I don't think that people who use MRs > are noobs and their q

Re: New contributor experience

.. > over a mailing list. And people who uploaded the patch to a Forge > won't see the comments in the Forge's pull request. If they don't read > e-mail, then they won't see the replies --- just as people who don't monitor > salsa won't see the pull requests. Oh, well You are aware that

Re: New contributor experience

> > If you are concerned about the PR being updated without you noticing it > > (very unlikely), you can git pull it locally, review locally and git > > push on mainline, which with all modern Forges will automatically close > > the PR/MR/issue. > > Yes, that would also work. That's not what people

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 07:49:11PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > > A person with your seniority surely knows better commands to use than > review plain diffs. Naturally, it is better to review using the git > log -p output that shows each commit message individually and related > changes. You *

Re: New contributor experience

Otto Kekäläinen writes: > If you are concerned about the PR being updated without you noticing it > (very unlikely), you can git pull it locally, review locally and git > push on mainline, which with all modern Forges will automatically close > the PR/MR/issue. Yes, that would also work. That's

Re: New contributor experience

Hi, > In general, no. Using a forge introduces numerous opportunities for race > conditions (reviewing a PR and having someone else update it before you > merge it, for instance) and compromises of other systems (the forge shows > you something different than what it would merge when you press the

Re: New contributor experience

Otto Kekäläinen writes: > Sure it is more convenient to, you as you most likely have some well > optimized Emacs email setup going on. But more secure? Surely signed > commits and a system that tracks real git commits and who pushed what > from where is more secure than plain-text patches in e-ma

Re: New contributor experience

> > After a `git fetch` or a `git pull` it is very easy to review what > > the change is or diff it against the current main branch. There are > > a bunch of tolls, including of course the usual gitk and `git > > difftool --dir-diff` + Meld. > > The problem is that it's also very easy *not* to do a

Re: New contributor experience

On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 08:51:19AM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > > After a `git fetch` or a `git pull` it is very easy to review what > the change is or diff it against the current main branch. There are > a bunch of tolls, including of course the usual gitk and `git > difftool --dir-diff` + Mel

Re: New contributor experience

Hi, > If some debian developer wants to make it to be their special mission > to help out new contributors, and be that ombudsperson to review > patches, and tell them how "no really, you need to follow the > upstream's documented requirements for code submissions[4]", or "gee, > it appears that y

Re: New contributor experience

On Sat, Jun 14, 2025 at 07:09:59PM +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: > > > >I think the other reason why these discussions are a bit frustrating > >is that there seems to be an implicit assumptions that all > >contributions from newcomers *must* be good, > > dunno. > I think the implicit assumptio

Re: New contributor experience

On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 05:43:12PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > The obvious counter example here is Jia Tan[1][2]. Another more recent > example is the "X11Libre" developer who had to get ejected from > Freedesk.org after contributing a huge number of questionable > commits[3]. > > [1] https://c

Re: New contributor experience

sorry for all the typos, I'm on my mobile Am 14. Juni 2025 19:09:59 MESZ schrieb "IOhannes m zmölnig" : >Am 14. Juni 2025 16:18:40 MESZ schrieb Theodore Ts'o : >> >>I think the other reason why these discussions are a bit frustrating >>is that there seems to be an implicit assumptions that all >>

Re: New contributor experience

Am 14. Juni 2025 16:18:40 MESZ schrieb Theodore Ts'o : > >I think the other reason why these discussions are a bit frustrating >is that there seems to be an implicit assumptions that all >contributions from newcomers *must* be good, dunno. I think the implicit assumption is that "new *contributor

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > Sorry, yes, Debian discussions around workflow are often frustrating > because part of the discussion is usually at least a mild request > for existing maintainers to change their current workflows, and when > people feel overwhelme

Re: New contributor experience

Am Donnerstag, dem 12.06.2025 um 18:15 +0200 schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig: > eg the multimedia team (which I'm a proud member of) is really not very much > of a "team" (with people working *together* on a bunch of packages), at least > in my impression (which might be totally off). > in practice, i

Re: New contributor experience

On 6/13/25 11:28 AM, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: https://www.debian.org/devel/join/ already says: "As a prospective developer, you should also subscribe to debian- mentors. Here you can ask questions about packaging and infrastructure projects as well as othe

Re: New contributor experience

https://www.debian.org/devel/join/ already says: "As a prospective developer, you should also subscribe to debian-mentors. Here you can ask questions about packaging and infrastructure projects as well as other developer-related issues. Please note that this list is meant for new contributors, not

Re: New contributor experience

Am 11. Juni 2025 21:31:53 MESZ schrieb "Otto Kekäläinen" : > >> >> I have started a new wiki page for this purpose >> >> https://wiki.debian.org/Newcomers > >All teams can and should welcome and mentor newcomers that sounds nice. however, I'm afraid that in practice the "can [...] mentor newcomer

Re: New contributor experience

Hi, > > As a very new contributor to Debian as part of the Google Summer of Code > > (GSoC) '25 program I can only second Andreas' point. Packages / package > > teams who are willing/have the bandwith to mentor newcomers are most > > certainly a great starting point for newbies. Is there an easy w

Re: New contributor experience

On 6/11/25 3:10 AM, Alex wrote: Since 2013 I'm preaching on every DebConf I attended in each of my Debian Med related events about https://salsa.debian.org/med-team/community/MoM/-/wikis/Mentoring-of-the-Month-(MoM) The idea is to help newcomers to package what they need. I wished other

Re: Re: New contributor experience

> Since 2013 I'm preaching on every DebConf I attended in each of my > Debian Med related events about > > > https://salsa.debian.org/med-team/community/MoM/-/wikis/Mentoring-of-the-Month-(MoM) > > The idea is to help newcomers to package what they need. I wished other > teams would try to ado

Re: New contributor experience

On 2025-06-06 14:43, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Sadly I'm not sure there's a great option for real-time chat that both follows our free software principles and would reach newcomers where they probably are. The option that would maximize outreach is probably Discord, which has obvious issues. Ignor

Re: New contributor experience

Am Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 07:18:31PM +0200 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: > I think so too: We should pick work that we can find passion for. Since 2013 I'm preaching on every DebConf I attended in each of my Debian Med related events about https://salsa.debian.org/med-team/community/MoM/-/wikis/Men

Re: apt-cacher-ng (Was Re: New contributor experience)

On Sat, Jun 07, 2025 at 08:38:09PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, Jun 07, 2025 at 09:08:50PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > > apt-cacher-ng is simply almost dead upstream/unmaintained, having just one > > release/maintainer upload since 2021 and many open bugs, including several >

Re: apt-cacher-ng (Was Re: New contributor experience)

Hi, I became Fedora/Redhat maintainer for this to revive it a bit and have a more efficient to feed the Debian nodes. It annoys our "security" team at work who sees plain http traffic. (No they don't know what gpg means) In https mode from my understanding there is no caching at all which defeats

Re: apt-cacher-ng (Was Re: New contributor experience)

Hi, On Sat Jun 7, 2025 at 10:38 PM CEST, Andy Smith wrote: On Sat, Jun 07, 2025 at 09:08:50PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: apt-cacher-ng is simply almost dead upstream/unmaintained, having just one release/maintainer upload since 2021 and many open bugs, including several very well known p

apt-cacher-ng (Was Re: New contributor experience)

Hi, On Sat, Jun 07, 2025 at 09:08:50PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > apt-cacher-ng is simply almost dead upstream/unmaintained, having just one > release/maintainer upload since 2021 and many open bugs, including several > very well known problems affecting many people. What are people usin

Re: New contributor experience

On Sat, Jun 07, 2025 at 03:46:48PM +, Tim Woodall wrote: Maintaining a package is a significant commitment. I'd prefer newcomers to fix bugs instead. There it doesnt hurt when they vanish after a few months. And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next frustrating threadmill

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025, Marc Haber wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I suggest to instead more narrowly guide them towards *recent* *RFP* bugreports rather than WNPP bugreports in general. It will not surprise me if some newcomers find recent RFP bugrepo

Re: New contributor experience

Am Freitag, dem 06.06.2025 um 18:49 +0100 schrieb Richard Lewis: > my "suggestion", if you can call it that, is that historitically debian > has tried to direct people to "package something new", but this doesnt > seem to work very well any more - most things are already packages or > are not suita

Re: New contributor experience

On Fri, Jun 06, 2025 at 06:49:38PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: Consider this random new contributor's experience: 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" Of course, this is my opinion, but it's deb

Re: New contributor experience

Andrey Rakhmatullin writes: > On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 09:48:47PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: > Consider this random new contributor's experience: > > 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" > 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "

Re: New contributor experience

On 06/06/2025 14:43, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > Ignoring the "where newcomers probably are" part, I wonder what people > think of Zulip? > > https://zulip.com/ > https://github.com/zulip/zulip/ Using it regularly in the some projects. Overall happy with it. It does what it should, has an open

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 04 Jun 2025, Russ Allbery wrote: > Marc Haber writes: > > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:32:49AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > >> Yes? I refuse to use IRC because I find it annoying, and yet I seem to > >> put up with all of the rest of our peculiarities. :) > > > Would you use Matrix, XMPP

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 10:06:59PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: Consider this random new contributor's experience: 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" Of course, this is my opinion, but it's deb

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 09:48:47PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: Consider this random new contributor's experience: 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" Of course, this is my opinion, but it's deb

Re: New contributor experience

On 05/06/2025 21:48, Richard Lewis wrote: Andrey Rakhmatullin writes: On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 08:51:38PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: Consider this random new contributor's experience: 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" 2. Read https://www.debian.org/deve

Re: New contributor experience

On 05/06/2025 21:30, Soren Stoutner wrote: On Thursday, June 5, 2025 10:53:17 AM Mountain Standard Time Ahmad Khalifa wrote: Looks like you took over maintainership completely. Not that you provided help and collaborated with the original maintainer. This looks more like a package that should h

Re: New contributor experience

Andrey Rakhmatullin writes: > On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 08:51:38PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: >>> Consider this random new contributor's experience: >>> >>> 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" >>> 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" >>

Re: New contributor experience

On Thursday, June 5, 2025 10:53:17 AM Mountain Standard Time Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > Looks like you took over maintainership completely. Not that you > provided help and collaborated with the original maintainer. > > This looks more like a package that should have been orphaned long ago > when it

Re: New contributor experience

Ahmad Khalifa writes: > Consider this random new contributor's experience: > > 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" > 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" > > Of course, this is my opinion, but it's debian's primary journey from > the

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 08:51:38PM +0100, Richard Lewis wrote: Consider this random new contributor's experience: 1. Go to https://www.debian.org/, click on "Get Involved, Contribute" 2. Read https://www.debian.org/devel/join/, points you to "WNPP" Of course, this is my opinion, but it's deb

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 08:41:30AM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: I typically load one of these two pages and use my browser’s find-on-page functionality to search them. https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/being_packaged https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/requested There's also https://wnpp.debian

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 02:58:24PM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: I have recent evidence of 2 newcomers complaining about wasting time on RFH bugs. Do you have recent evidence of anyone benefiting from RFH bugs? Yes, I recently adopted Courier (and related packages) because it had a RFH bug. *h

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/2025 22:58, Soren Stoutner wrote: On Wednesday, June 4, 2025 6:05:25 AM Mountain Standard Time Ahmad Khalifa wrote: On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote: Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit : Because they're misleading and waste contributor time. I don't thin

Re: New contributor experience

On Thursday, June 5, 2025 4:26:10 AM Mountain Standard Time Holger Levsen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 11:51:37PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > > Not much, in my experience, because the only reliable way to find WNPP bugs > > for given software is, in my experience, Google. > > And soo

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, Jun 05, 2025 at 08:41:30AM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: > Not much, in my experience, because the only reliable way to find WNPP bugs > for given software is, in my experience, Google. And soon it will be s#Google#AI#. I think this tells more about you than about Debian or WNPP bugs.

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 11:51:37PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > Not much, in my experience, because the only reliable way to find WNPP bugs > for given software is, in my experience, Google. And soon it will be s#Google#AI#. I think this tells more about you than about Debian or WNPP bugs.

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 2025-06-04 at 18:33 +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > On 04/06/2025 18:28, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > > > > And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next frustrating > > > > threadmill that we offer: looking for a

Re: New contributor experience

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 10:07:06 +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote: >And when you say "pointing it to a server" the pre-requisite here is someone >should "own" a server >for that. In the case of IRC, that is simply not true. irc.debian.org points to oftc and that's all you need to be there. >You may argue t

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/25 8:39 pm, Marc Haber wrote: > Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an > IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be > bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties? Definitely. Many DDs don't use IRC. When I started, I didn't either

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/25 6:27 pm, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > On 04/06/2025 13:28, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 13:56:49) >>> On 04/06/2025 12:39, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > Separately, may I also suggest some k

Re: New contributor experience

Le Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 04:39:30PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin a écrit : > > We should just abolish and forbid RFPs Recently (1~2 years) I have been a simple contributor in a different open source community, https://nf-co.re/. Here is my experience. - I mostly contribute things that fit my own n

Re: New contributor experience

On Wednesday, June 4, 2025 6:05:25 AM Mountain Standard Time Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote: > > Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit : > >> Because they're misleading and waste contributor time. > > > > I don't think so, in general. Some RFH ar

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 04 Jun 2025 18:22:59 +0200, Joachim Zobel wrote: >Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 17:10 +0100 schrieb Ahmad Khalifa: >> But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a >> project manager to come in and ask for updates here :) > >This is actually an important point. The

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: I think the problem you're running into there is that people perceive closing old WNPP issues as making the information in them disappear. I'm not sure that's quite accurate, but it certainly makes it much harder to find. Not much,

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 07:18:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead >> to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to >> a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of >> the he

Re: New contributor experience

Ahmad Khalifa writes: > I just thought there would have been a much higher willingness to > discuss how to improve things. I was wrong. Sorry, yes, Debian discussions around workflow are often frustrating because part of the discussion is usually at least a mild request for existing maintainers

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/2025 18:28, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next frustrating threadmill that we offer: looking for a sponsor. What does this line mean? That getting a sponsor as a new cont

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next frustrating threadmill that we offer: looking for a sponsor. What does this line mean? That getting a sponsor as a new contributor, especially for a new package, is frustr

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/2025 17:26, Russ Allbery wrote: Ahmad Khalifa writes: But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a project manager to come in and ask for updates here :) Debian has the RFA process, orphaning, submitting another RFH, etc... I don't know, but seems no one

Re: New contributor experience

Quoting Andrey Rakhmatullin (2025-06-04 18:37:44) > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > >> Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead > >> to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to > >> a list of RC bugs tagge

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/2025 17:34, Marc Haber wrote: Hi, On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I suggest to instead more narrowly guide them towards *recent* *RFP* bugreports rather than WNPP bugreports in general. It will not surprise me if some newcomers find recent RFP bugrepo

Re: New contributor experience

Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 17:10 +0100 schrieb Ahmad Khalifa: > But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a > project manager to come in and ask for updates here :) This is actually an important point. The usually means that make a project socially work are not there.

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of the heart"). I s

Re: New contributor experience

Hi, On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I suggest to instead more narrowly guide them towards *recent* *RFP* bugreports rather than WNPP bugreports in general. It will not surprise me if some newcomers find recent RFP bugreports a total waste of their time, but I k

Re: New contributor experience

Ahmad Khalifa writes: > But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a > project manager to come in and ask for updates here :) > Debian has the RFA process, orphaning, submitting another RFH, etc... > I don't know, but seems no one wants to solve this and the status quo i

Re: New contributor experience

Quoting Marc Haber (2025-06-04 17:44:52) > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:31:09AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > >The most common (not the only) reason why packages file an RFH bug, in my > >experience, is that they are overwhelmed and unable to keep up with the > >packaging, which unfortunately is the s

Re: New contributor experience

On 04/06/2025 16:31, Russ Allbery wrote: Ahmad Khalifa writes: Joachim was mislead by an RFH. Even raised an MR and still got ignored. I replied to an RFH bug, got ignored. Raised an MR and still got ignored (my MR is only 5 months old, maybe still hope?). The most common (not the only) reas

Re: New contributor experience

Marc Haber writes: > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:32:49AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >> Yes? I refuse to use IRC because I find it annoying, and yet I seem to >> put up with all of the rest of our peculiarities. :) > Would you use Matrix, XMPP or some of those modern chat systems? No, which, fair

Re: New contributor experience

On Wed, 04 Jun 2025 at 17:44:52 +0200, Marc Haber wrote: Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of the heart"). The "newcomer" tag in th

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