On 17/1/09 16:19, Eddy Nigg wrote:
On 01/17/2009 11:45 AM, Ian G:
It's also irresponsible and unprofessional, and likely if we want to
make this distinction, we will have to think about a policy of no
complaints. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Well, no...somebody is free to complain or inform Mozilla about
something which might affect Mozilla.
Well, no. No-one is free to do that. That is, certainly anyone can say
anything but there are consequences, in business, in reputation, in law,
in relationships. These form limits and controls on behaviour. None of
us here are immune to this.
An affected party which has a dispute with a CA must solve the dispute
with the CA through the proper channels. Mozilla CAN NOT provide
resolution to the dispute - Mozilla is not a court.
Um. It's not really the business of this list to talk general business,
but ok, to avoid any further mistakes here, here is the very basic
situation:
Disputes are resolved according to the agreement or contract (terms are
interchangeable) between the parties.
So, if the agreement were to say "use this page" then that's how they
are done. If on the other hand, the agreement said "disputes are solved
by 3 wise men rolling dice under a full moon" then that is how it is
done too.
Now, normally, contracts say "disputes are resolved in the Court of Law
in Mainstreet, Upper Podunk." Which is fine and dandy, but this is
simply an option.
In contract law, forums of dispute resolution is chosen by the parties.
There are all sorts of options: courts (any around the world),
mediation, arbitration, one party, both parties, choose a third party.
It's whatever you want, whatever you can write in the contract (in general).
Now, where it gets a bit sticky is that one of the options is to say
nothing. And this is entirely valid and legal, but does lead to
questions about how to resolve disputes later on. This can be resolved
by mutual agreement, or if you can't agree how to resolve the dispute,
one party can take it to a court.
Then, because the court is not NAMED IN THE AGREEMENT, it has to ask
itself "do we have jurisdiction?" And there are lots and lots of rules
and caselaw and laws about this. Assuming luck, then the court says
"yes, we assert jurisdiction" and then the case is reserved for that
court. If we have negative luck, other things can happen.
In sum, courts may resolve disputes. Others may as well. It all
depends on the agreement. Mozilla can simply state that it resolves
disputes ... by simply stating it. No problem.
(Obviously, Mozo's counsel will have something to say here too, and may
well (a ) disagree with the letter above, or (b ) the spirit, or (c )
the suitability of the idea in the first place.)
Indeed. In my proposal it is less arbitrary. They will be able to do
certain things, more so than before. Right now, they cannot drop anyone
from the root list.
I'm not sure from where you got this...which law are you following that
prevents Mozilla from doing so? Which legal requirements? Which
policies? Which agreements?
OK, fair question. There is no precise law, but a procedure called an
injunction. It is fairly simple, but like most things is not understood
until you've been through it.
What happens is that party A gets wind of party B's intended action. So
party A files a dispute into court. Then, it immediately makes an
application to the court for an "injunction" which is an order from the
court to maintain things as they are, while the dispute is being heard.
OK so far? So, as we know, most court cases will take at least a year,
and as long as 4 for slightly complicated things. And, here's the clanger:
the injunction generally maintains in place for that entire time.
Now apply to say a root termination. This is a business-threatening
event. If Mozo started thinking about this, then it would very quickly
escalate to court & injunction. In my opinion (not legal advice, of
course) the business would have little option but to sue and file for
injunction.
Ergo, I conclude by the above logic that Mozo cannot drop a root. (OK,
I needed some other steps to get to that point, but they are not germane.)
[I've snipped all the stuff that is too far "out of court" to use a pun,
sorry about that.]
iang
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