Hi,
On an install of the RC of the forthcoming Debian 13, I just installed
fwupd. I now go to refresh its database and get:
$ sudo fwupdmgr refresh
Updating lvfs
Failed to download metadata for lvfs: network is unreachable: Host unreachable
I am not aware of any reason why this host would have
please check if your network interface was not renamed and still the same:
iifname "ens18" accept
...
oifname "ens18" masquerade
I updated my virtual machine from Debian 12 to 13, after which it began
to work incorrectly with nftables. Incoming letters do not work,
nftables does not work correctly. It is impossible to receive or send a
letter in the local network. At the same time, from the external network
(Internet
> Aye, it’s way too big a topic for the mailing list. If you’re
> interested in the whole debate (as far back as 2003) you can find
> highlights here:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/DefaultMTA
Thanks, that very much answers my question.
I guess if `ssmtp` had been extended to allow local deli
> On 17 Jul 2025, at 20:09, Marco Moock wrote:
>
> On 17.07.2025 19:00 Uhr Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
>> I don't have anything against Exim4 (I just happened to choose Postfix
>> many years ago and never had a reason to reconsider that choice).
>> I know basically nothing about Exim4 other than th
On 17.07.2025 19:00 Uhr Stefan Monnier wrote:
> I don't have anything against Exim4 (I just happened to choose Postfix
> many years ago and never had a reason to reconsider that choice).
> I know basically nothing about Exim4 other than the fact that
> installing Postfix instead saved a few kB (no
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 12:54:58PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Why does Debian default to installing Exim4?
Just historical reasons I think: No great mystery, just that a choice
had to be made and that was the choice that was made.
Personally I haven't been too thrilled wit
Why does Debian default to installing Exim4?
I just crossgraded two machines (i386->amd64 and armhf->arm64) in
different ways (once with `crosssgrader` and once with a fresh install
followed by manual reconciliation) and in both cases I ended up with
Exim4 installed while I had starte
x. Then she got the new one.
> >
> > ... but also their whole website is bogus and with my luck would ALSO
> > do some user-agent checks now. Ugh, why is everything a web-app :(
> >
> Because it's platform-independent, as long as you don't do stupid
> one-br
> Right, but her laptop is pretty much dead (won't charge any longer and
> has only 4 gb of RAM) and cannot be revived for any sensible amount of
> money, so she must buy a new one.
Side note: the "new" one doesn't have to be literally new, it could be
second-hand as well.
Stefan
Greg (HE12025-07-14):
> Sure. All the old hands (Hasler, Wright, tomas, Wooledge et. al.) are
> using Gnome, the default Debian desktop.
Any evidence to support that claim?
--
Nicolas George
> Sure. All the old hands (Hasler, Wright, tomas, Wooledge et. al.) are
> using Gnome, the default Debian desktop.
>
s/Gnome/fvwm/g
J
--
John Dow
http://www.nelefa.org
PVC:APKTIDQ4881ao2SFS0DZLOe7t6V0UwcuUV4x3dnkJR0TZsYX0usQ

On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 9:39 AM Dan Purgert wrote:
>
> On Jul 14, 2025, Greg wrote:
> > On 2025-07-14, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think that's already happened, more or less. The issue is that to get
> > >> my wife to use Debian it w
On 2025-07-14, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 01:18:03PM -, Greg wrote:
>>the old dinosaurs hold them in a certain disdain
>
> You don't understand irony, do you?
>
Sure. All the old hands (Hasler, Wright, tomas, Wooledge et. al.) are
using Gnome, the default Debian desktop.
rything a web-app :(
>
Because it's platform-independent, as long as you don't do stupid
one-browser-only tricks. My assorted home software will run on her
Windows computer, my Debian sid and both Android and iOS mobile phones.
Before I started with Linux, I had a moderate exposure to D
On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 11:27:46 +0200
Nicolas George wrote:
> Is it a underhanded plan to have the experienced users quietly by
> themselves?
No, it is a sneaky underhanded plot to leave the email lists entirely
to the old hands and rid us of pesky boring newbie questions like
"Where's the power sw
On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 01:18:03PM -, Greg wrote:
the old dinosaurs hold them in a certain disdain
You don't understand irony, do you?
On Jul 14, 2025, Greg wrote:
> On 2025-07-14, Dan Purgert wrote:
> >
> >> I think that's already happened, more or less. The issue is that to get
> >> my wife to use Debian it would need to be preinstalled [...]
> >
> > But that's why she has
On 2025-07-14, Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I think that's already happened, more or less. The issue is that to get
>> my wife to use Debian it would need to be preinstalled [...]
>
> But that's why she has you, right? :)
>
Right, but her laptop is pretty much dea
#x27;s
> broken they go to Joe's Automotive in Culver City.
I have done "basic" work on a car before (oil change, etc.). Honestly,
when Joe's Automotive over there does the same job for about the same
price, AND I don't have to haul off the old fluids for dispos
-combustion engines. They buy the car and when it's
broken they go to Joe's Automotive in Culver City.
> Is it a underhanded plan to have the experienced users quietly by
> themselves?
I think that's already happened, more or less. The issue is that to get
my wife to use Debi
Hi,
On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 11:27:46AM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> Greg (HE12025-07-12):
> > The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
> > *new* users, who ain't gonna be using Gnus to read this mailing list,
> > please get real.
>
> So, you would have a webforum with
Greg (HE12025-07-12):
> That's fine as long as you realize you are in the vast minority.
As long as you acknowledge that not being in the majority is not a flaw
in any way…
> The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
> *new* users, who ain't gonna be using Gnus to read t
tually would be viable, I would be *actively
glad* about that.
Where we are is I asked my own wife if she'd ever heard of Debian. She
said "Quoi?" three or four times before admitting she hadn't. She *has*
heard of Linux, though. Before talking about quoting styles you have to
r
d be viable, I would be *actively
> glad* about that.
>
Where we are is I asked my own wife if she'd ever heard of Debian. She
said "Quoi?" three or four times before admitting she hadn't. She *has*
heard of Linux, though. Before talking about quoting styles you have to
Greg writes:
> My understanding was that everyone here would be welcome to a more
> commodious place for the newer generations for whom mailing lists and
> newsgroups are foreign modes of communication.
I would welcome such a thing as long as it did not require me to
exchange my present mode of in
On Sat, 12 Jul 2025, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 12:20:05PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 04:09:25PM +, fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:
>>> but doesn't it all come down to the whims of the debian gods
>>> after al
On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 12:20:05PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 04:09:25PM +, fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:
> > but doesn't it all come down to the whims of the debian gods
> > after all it is their's
>
> not really--anyone can start a
lace for the newer generations for whom mailing lists and
> >> newsgroups are foreign modes of communication.
> >
> > And if the people here are more comfortable on mailing lists and
> > consider web forums to be foreign modes of communication [...]
> but doesn't i
On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 04:09:25PM +, fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:
but doesn't it all come down to the whims of the debian gods
after all it is their's
not really--anyone can start a forum, they just have to figure out how
to convince people to use it
ing list that everybody
> should be using something else that other people like better seems
> unproductive at best.
>
but doesn't it all come down to the whims of the debian gods
after all it is their's
On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 03:53:08PM -, Greg wrote:
My understanding was that everyone here would be welcome to a more
commodious place for the newer generations for whom mailing lists and
newsgroups are foreign modes of communication.
And if the people here are more comfortable on mailing li
On 2025-07-12, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 03:25:56PM -, Greg wrote:
>>You people are talking to yourselves. That's the problem which the OP
>>is seeking to solve.
>
> It seems "you're welcome here" means "you're welcome some other place
> that doesn't exist yet, and where
On 2025-07-12, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> Am Sa, Jul 12, 2025 at 14:48:20 - schrieb Greg:
>>That's fine as long as you realize you are in the vast minority.
>
> Fine with me, I don’t have a smartphone either and don’t use any social
> media.
>
>>The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards t
On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 03:25:56PM -, Greg wrote:
You people are talking to yourselves. That's the problem which the OP
is seeking to solve.
It seems "you're welcome here" means "you're welcome some other place
that doesn't exist yet, and where the people here aren't welcome"?
Weird way t
On 2025-07-12, wrote:
>> The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
>> *new* users, who ain't gonna be using Gnus to read this mailing list,
>> please get real.
>
> If that's your criterion, what are you doing dabbling in Debian?
>
run "apps"
> > and do not participate in so called social media of any kind
> >
>
> That's fine as long as you realize you are in the vast minority.
>
> The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
> *new* users, who ain't gonna be
Am Sa, Jul 12, 2025 at 14:48:20 - schrieb Greg:
That's fine as long as you realize you are in the vast minority.
Fine with me, I don’t have a smartphone either and don’t use any social
media.
The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
*new* users, who ain't gonn
Am Fr, Jul 11, 2025 at 14:51:49 - schrieb Greg:
email (to tell the truth, I don't even know how people handle the
shitload of emails flooding into their inboxes).
I use procmail to put the mails in fitting maildir folders.
And since maildir has every mail as a file, a simple find together
alize you are in the vast minority.
The thrust of the OP seems to be directed towards the *majority* of
*new* users, who ain't gonna be using Gnus to read this mailing list,
please get real.
Of course, I don't care one way or another about marketing Debian to
Gen-Z (or X?) folks. In fact,
Paul writes:
> What package is [Gnus] in?
It's part of Emacs.
--
John Hasler
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
Hi,
On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 06:52:42PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Zulip?
> Discourse?
> Lemmy?
>
> Ideally, such a thing would have good&nice bridges to&from email, but in
> practice I don't know any that have such bridges (some have no such
> bridge, while other have such bridges but they do
> On 12 Jul 2025, at 06:15, Paul Scott wrote:
>
>
> On 7/11/25 11:04 AM, John Hasler wrote:
>>> I don't even know how people handle the shitload of emails flooding
>>> into their inboxes
>> By using Gnus. It handles mail like news.
>
> What package is it in?
>
> Thank you,
Emacs.
M-x gnu
On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 08:19:32PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
[...]
> I don't anything about Discourse's email bridging, if any --
There is.
> my possibly naive take is that email users are distinctly second
> class,
they are, that's my experience.
The most acute challenge with mail is that it
On 7/11/25 11:04 AM, John Hasler wrote:
I don't even know how people handle the shitload of emails flooding
into their inboxes
By using Gnus. It handles mail like news.
What package is it in?
Thank you,
Paul
We love libre software! I hope libre software still alive in the next years.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 03:16:54PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> Jonathan Dowland (HE12025-07-11):
> > In short I think any attempt to provide a new place for users is going to
>
Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Do you have a proposal then for a forum (as in, a platform for group
> >> discussion) that's more palatable to the youngsters?
>
> Zulip?
> Discourse?
> Lemmy?
>
> Ideally, such a thing would have good&nice bridges to&from email, but in
> practice I don't know any that
Andy et al:
Can't make the conference anyway, but I've always felt welcome and
supported on the list.
Thanks for that.
Bob Crochelt
On 7/10/25 01:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Hi,
I'm at a chat in Debcamp about the experience for new Linux users and people
new to De
>> Do you have a proposal then for a forum (as in, a platform for group
>> discussion) that's more palatable to the youngsters?
Zulip?
Discourse?
Lemmy?
Ideally, such a thing would have good&nice bridges to&from email, but in
practice I don't know any that have such bridges (some have no such
bri
On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 6:50 AM Joe wrote:
>
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 12:13:05 +0200
> Philipp Ewald wrote:
>
> > Am 10.07.25 um 15:14 schrieb Andy Smith:
> > > I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally
> > > say things like, "email is only for password reminders and my Steam
many instances
> of that (and the sites I am aware of using Mailman 2 are reluctant to
> move to 3. Debian does not use Mailman.)
While this may be the least bad of the available options, it is still a
bad option.
The reason is that in the large majority of cases, what constitutes good
> I don't even know how people handle the shitload of emails flooding
> into their inboxes
By using Gnus. It handles mail like news.
--
John Hasler
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA
ion is a Discourse instance.
Quite a few large FOSS projects switched to this software and again I
think Ubuntu's example works pretty well. As far as moderation goes it
is at least intended that participants take on some of the moderation
burden after spending a bit of time.
There was at le
On Jul 11, 2025, Greg wrote:
> On 2025-07-11, Dan Purgert wrote:
> >
> >> I use a mail to news gateway (gmane) that I find more convenient than
> >> email (to tell the truth, I don't even know how people handle the shitload
> >> of emails flooding into their inboxes).
> >
> > A sieve rule to stuff
On 2025-07-11, Loris Bennett wrote:
>
> So I don't think the issue is just "youngsters", who are in my
> experience form fairly heterogenous group anyway, but more of a failure
> of understanding what exactly a mailing list is and what its advantages
> are. This problem may be exacerbated by the
On 2025-07-11, Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I use a mail to news gateway (gmane) that I find more convenient than
>> email (to tell the truth, I don't even know how people handle the shitload
>> of emails flooding into their inboxes).
>
> A sieve rule to stuff all you lot into "INBOX.Debian-User" :)
A
On Jul 11, 2025, Greg wrote:
> On 2025-07-11, Joe wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 12:13:05 +0200
> > Philipp Ewald wrote:
> >
> >> Am 10.07.25 um 15:14 schrieb Andy Smith:
> >> > I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally
> >> > say things like, "email is only for password r
On 2025-07-11, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 12:13:05 +0200
> Philipp Ewald wrote:
>
>> Am 10.07.25 um 15:14 schrieb Andy Smith:
>> > I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally
>> > say things like, "email is only for password reminders and my Steam
>> > login code". It'
On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 02:06:03PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> (and the sites I am aware of using Mailman 2 are reluctant to move to 3.
> Debian does not use Mailman.)
I moved MM2 -> MM3 at the start of the year at the same time as I moved the
server from CentOS to Debian. It was a
Jonathan Dowland (HE12025-07-11):
> In short I think any attempt to provide a new place for users is going to
^
> take a serious investment of time to make sure the place is not disregarded
> for being a ghost town.
I think this “for us
many instances of
that (and the sites I am aware of using Mailman 2 are reluctant to move
to 3. Debian does not use Mailman.)
It means the new interfaces are populated with the existing community
and you don't have the Ghost Town issue you might otherwise.
Thanks for sharing,
--
Ple
e was a turning point for when email would be abandoned
by the vast majority, that point has long since passed. Although we do
get new posters here from time to time, the vast, vast majority of
people and traffic appear to be long-entrenched folk. As a proportion of
actual debian users, I thin
I see trends where young user using "mobile numbers" rather then "E-mail
adresses" for registrations. I dont get it, dont ask me.
many changing email address after switching phones. Because create a new is
easy and there dont know there have any already
won't be as keen on handing them your d
On Fri, 11 Jul 2025, Loris Bennett wrote:
> John Dow writes:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2025, at 09:58, Anssi Saari
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andy Smith writes:
>>
>> I think it's worth considering the fact that new computer users are
>> increasingly less likely to use email and are more likely to find email
>>
On Jul 11, 2025, Loris Bennett wrote:
> John Dow writes:
>
> > On 11 Jul 2025, at 09:58, Anssi Saari
> > wrote:
> >
> > Andy Smith writes:
> >
> > I think it's worth considering the fact that new computer users are
> > increasingly less likely to use email and are more likely to find email
John Dow writes:
> On 11 Jul 2025, at 09:58, Anssi Saari
> wrote:
>
> Andy Smith writes:
>
> I think it's worth considering the fact that new computer users are
> increasingly less likely to use email and are more likely to find email
> intimidating.
>
> Do you have a proposal then for a
Am 10.07.25 um 15:14 schrieb Andy Smith:
I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally say
things like, "email is only for password reminders and my Steam login
code". It's not that they are non-technical or uninterested in
technology, it's that specifically email is an unk
On Jul 11, 2025, John Dow wrote:
> [...]
> Granted, I’m an old fuddy-duddy who’s been using Linux since day 1
> (and UNIX before then), but email is the *perfect* medium for this
> type of interaction.
I'm not, but I agree here.
... though I did just notice the first bit of grey in my beard this
> On 11 Jul 2025, at 09:58, Anssi Saari
> wrote:
>
> Andy Smith writes:
>
>> I think it's worth considering the fact that new computer users are
>> increasingly less likely to use email and are more likely to find email
>> intimidating.
>
> Do you have a proposal then for a forum (as in, a p
Andy Smith writes:
> I think it's worth considering the fact that new computer users are
> increasingly less likely to use email and are more likely to find email
> intimidating.
Do you have a proposal then for a forum (as in, a platform for group
discussion) that's more palatable to the youngst
On Thu, 10 Jul 2025, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 19:34:58 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > once alternatives are provided
Already provided since 2006 - it's called Mint and it has a forum
https://forums.linuxmint.com/
> > and decently supported, people actively choose not to use e
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 07:34:58PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 02:59:33PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> > lists) is wise.
> >
> > Debian can suppor
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025, 7:09 PM wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2025, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 19:34:58 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> >> once alternatives are provided and
> >> decently supported, people actively choose not to use email.
> >
> > *Some* people may choose that.
> >
> >
On Thu, 10 Jul 2025, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 19:34:58 +, Andy Smith wrote:
>> once alternatives are provided and
>> decently supported, people actively choose not to use email.
>
> *Some* people may choose that.
>
> The rest of us will stay here.
>
agreed
there are thos
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 3:10 PM Dan Ritter wrote:
> >
> > Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > > I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> > > lists) is wise.
> > >
> > > Debian can support new wa
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 19:34:58 +, Andy Smith wrote:
> once alternatives are provided and
> decently supported, people actively choose not to use email.
*Some* people may choose that.
The rest of us will stay here.
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 02:59:33PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> lists) is wise.
>
> Debian can support new ways to participate, like Social Media and
> Chat, for Gen-Z. However, I don't b
Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> lists) is wise.
>
> Debian can support new ways to participate, like Social Media and
> Chat, for Gen-Z. However, I don't believe it is an either/or
> proposition.
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 3:10 PM Dan Ritter wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> > lists) is wise.
> >
> > Debian can support new ways to participate, like Social Media and
> > Chat,
ple increasingly do not use email as a means of
> collaboration. I'm sorry if that is unwelcome to you, but it's how
> things are and Debian is not going to reverse it.
You based the premise on _teenagers_ -- "I know lots of people
under 20..." .
My first email address was in the
y Steam login
> code". It's not that they are non-technical or uninterested in
> technology, it's that specifically email is an unknown and unwieldy tool
> for them. When email is the only support venue, to a lot of folks that
> is unwelcoming.
>
> We should try to be
hing I would say is that even when a person does find email
is the lowest common denominator for file transfer, that doesn't strike
me as participation in any sort of community. At best I would say that's
transactional and then the person gets back to whatever they were doing.
> We'r
> them, or overly paternalistic like the FSF¹.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
> ¹ "Don't protect your web site from AI bot DDoS with Anubis because
>Anubis uses Javascript which is the devil!!"
[ Hmm... not sure what's paternalistic about the choice the FSF
sysadmins make r
> We're talking in this thread about people potentially interested in
> Debian, as opposed to Windows or other Linux distros. I'm suggesting
> that all these people will be comfortable with email, mailing lists
Comfortable with email: possibly (tho maybe they don't like
ng what is happening..."
Things that are facts:
- Levels of email collaboration are down almost everywhere, as an
ongoing trend, in Debian and generally in the world
- Average age of email-based communities is growing faster than the
average age of the general population in Debian and g
g..."
Things that are facts:
- Levels of email collaboration are down almost everywhere, as an
ongoing trend, in Debian and generally in the world
- Average age of email-based communities is growing faster than the
average age of the general population in Debian and generally in the
On 10/7/25 23:10, Andy Smith wrote:
I'm telling you how things are
Those are the words that are problematic - "I am the absolute authority
and the absolute expert regarding what is happening..."
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 04:25:56PM +0100, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 03:19:40PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 02:32:53PM +0100, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> > > The likes of facebook are steering people away from email as they want
> > > to keep a
re
vast numbers of messages that are read only by other bits of software
not directly by any human.
Long term I don't think LKML will stick with this, I don't think LKML
will inspire others to reverse the trend, and Debian absolutely 100%
will not manage that either.
Thanks,
Andy
-
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 03:19:40PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 02:32:53PM +0100, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> > The likes of facebook are steering people away from email as they want
> > to keep all interaction within their eco system - email is something
> > that let
email is the only form of social
networking that has positive value.
Nevertheless, let us say you are 100% correct. My point remains that
Debian will not be convincing people of that. You can go where the users
are, or you can stay where the users aren't.
It's all very well sticking wi
f that is unwelcome to you, but it's how
things are and Debian is not going to reverse it.
> Should we get rid of spares and the tools from car trunks because "kids"
> haven't yet learned why the stuff is important?
This an example of a dismissive tone that isn't wel
nts, setup is normally
built-in for the mass market free email providers, which our new users
will undoubtedly be using.
And would new potential Debian users not contain people in businesses,
small or large, who will most certainly be familiar with email, for
official purposes if nothing
>> I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally say
>> things like, "email is only for password reminders and my Steam login
>> code". It's not that they are non-technical or uninterested in
>> technology, it's that specifically email is an unknown and unwieldy
>> tool for them
(granted, at 18), and *everybody* was using email
all the time -- newsletters from the student groups, professors sending
weekly "interesting things in science" (well, at least the one did),
etc.
It continues here (admittedly, in "white-collar" work) that email is
constantly used
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 01:14:49PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> I know a large number of people under the age of 20 who literally say
> things like, "email is only for password reminders and my Steam login
> code". It's not that they are non-technical or uninterested in
> technology, it's that speci
's that specifically email is an unknown and unwieldy tool
for them. When email is the only support venue, to a lot of folks that
is unwelcoming.
We should try to be as welcoming as we can here, but I think that Debian
cannot hope to reverse that trend so if it wishes to remain relevan
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 10:40:54AM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm at a chat in Debcamp about the experience for new Linux users and
> > people new to Debian. It can be intimidating to use Debian
"Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm at a chat in Debcamp about the experience for new Linux users and
> people new to Debian. It can be intimidating to use Debian and also
> to front up and ask questions.
>
> To make it REALLY clear - anybody and every
On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 08:48:18 +
"Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm at a chat in Debcamp about the experience for new Linux users and
> people new to Debian. It can be intimidating to use Debian and also
> to front up and ask questions.
>
Indeed, I h
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