eaningful
details based on severity.
For all we know, as we know nothing, apt/oldstable has that problem, too,
(assuming of course its an apt problem to begin with) making that even
more ironic.
But it makes you feel better and I don't really care, so its fine.
I was indeed just giving you a hint for next time on another package
to include a justification rather than treat it as "obviously so".
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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you adding another architecture since the last update
but before the next mirror change).
> severity 1078608 serious
Not that it makes any practical difference in the apt team if you tag
it wishlist or critical, but I am curious: Which section in the Debian
policy is apt violating here? Or
> [your workaround]
I fear that has less to do with deb vs. Packages file and more with the
order in which deb files vs stanzas in the Packages file are parsed,
so that problem might mysteriously reappear ~ or is never to be seen
again ~ based on your luck.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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src:apt there is no difference between "Debian maintainer" and
"upstream" because apt is native to Debian and hence also its upstream,
so what are you actually asking and what would the answer solve?
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David Kalnischkies
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s endings for some reason
which lead to an 'interesting' mix in the merge otherwise.
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David Kalnischkies
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t should do so now.
But yeah, as said, Julian wanted to look at this anyhow, so that
particular iron is still too hot for me to touch nor hold off
translations for it.
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David Kalnischkies
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e
in CC in the hopes they might want to comment and/or work together.
In exchange, I promise to follow up a bit more timely this time.
Thanks for entertaining my whims and
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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s nearly 10 years ago at
Debconf15, perhaps its time for a new round, to perhaps beat the heap
into a manageable stack… maybe I ride on my flying pig to France…
/me continues dreaming.
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David Kalnischkies
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'.org' in a Debian context is completely lost; it is good to
hear that it is on the radar and so I rest my case.
Thanks again to everyone for replying & for entertaining my whims!
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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Depends" – note the missing dash.
I didn't notice until now…
Patch with test incoming, so the bot will hopefully comment soon
and I save myself from attaching the patch ~ I am just mailing ahead
to fix the versions in the BTS.
Days since I last broke Debian: 0
Best regards
David Kal
uot; for a few days I am going to import the
update given the age and all, but I wanted to ask for 'paper trail'
and more general MIA concerns anyhow)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
[0] https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/faw@debian/ tells me
he voted recently, but otherwise not
nblocks us in the meantime.
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David Kalnischkies
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re hooks and some might not be as ignorable.
So, in my view this isn't tangential, but my most preferred solution:
make "dpkg-preconfigure --apt" a conditional noop (if possible) as
that requires no changes elsewhere and solves a problem many might not
have realised yet they have
g sad that this functionality is in apt to
begin with as this is not something apt should be doing. It doesn't
usually poke into deb files…)
A very fine time sink you stumbled over.
Package management is clearly a hard problem, not just for Santa.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ents, Icons, Translations, Contents, … and all the other
potential targets part of your 'binaries' set or not?
(There are bugs with the existing ways of entering such a "half" update
state in the form of --no-list-cleanup already that will be hard enough
to solve without adding more pain)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ge much for your case (and it isn't always
possible without additional work, e.g. if we store indexes compressed).
So, closing as not a bug but working as intended.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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it is at least
not producing complete bogus even with otherwise unchanged 0.17.
Thanks for entertaining my request &
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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of course!
I just merged your update into 'main', so it should be part of the next
apt release at which point this bugreport will be auto-closed (until
then it is considered pending thanks to the bot mail).
If you have further updates feel free to open a new bugreport.
Thanks again &
but in a more
source-orientated (AUR stuff is built on user-systems, right?) this
might be more of a factor, maybe?
At least I assume that both "failures" are a red herring and the actual
problem causing them is deeper and more related to how Arch is setup.
Hence my interest in chr
ew or perhaps just give an acknowledgement.
In the hopes that I am going to reply a "little" faster next time &
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
[0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-italian/2024/09/msg7.html
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ved by 2. for which
bug reports already exist, so adding another doesn't help & I am
therefore closing this one (as sorta duplicate).
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David Kalnischkies
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tps://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#packages-providing-a-terminal-emulator
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David Kalnischkies
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ettext` package.
Your editor with which you edit the po file might have similar (and or
better) checks implemented, but I don't know much about po editors.
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David Kalnischkies
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f not by accident), but many people do with e.g. (close by)
backspace or the arrow keys.
¹ Of course, this key repeat and many other aspects of input handling
are a matter of personal taste and highly configurable with different
setups probably sporting vastly different defaults.
Best rega
that just hits confirm after the REMOVE section is done (in
old order – now we know why it was given first 😉), so they have to wait
now for the prompt, but… oh well, --no-remove --assume-yes could work
for this straw man user instead I guess (https://xkcd.com/1172/).
MR on salsa: htt
id you get answers for them already or is there
something we as upstream should improve regarding the message (or
regarding giving context to the translator)?
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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d those we might have in the future.
Can you agree or do you have arguments/views I might have missed?
As of now I would close this report in favour of the others.
(I am relatively certain we have [at least one] open bugreports about
all the things I mentioned here already, but I haven't checked)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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one advantage
of our current processes certainly is that there is a massive paper
trail to follow in case something goes wrong – and it occasionally does.
Personally, I prefer to trust in "random" translators not being evil,
but I know others who don't for equal if not better reasons.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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lly truncated the output/mail?
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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aracters; but I am happy to be
proven wrong given utf8 isn't my expertise.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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zbiorze kluczy trusted.gpg (%s), "
| "więcej informacji w rozdziale DEPRECATION w podręczniku apt-key(8)."
(I don't speak polish, so I have no idea what that might mean.)
I am happy to commit as-is if this needs more work/time, is a simple
reminder/note or whatever, but I wanted to ask first.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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apt -o APT::Snapshot=2024-06-30T00:05:09Z list --upgradable
?
(-S/--snapshot are just cmdline sugar for this option)
I don't think it should "work" without the option set – and I have to
note that your config includes the option (with another timestamp).
Best regards
David Kalnis
it yet, but I am not a gigantic fan of apt left not working,
even in unstable, so I might have negative prejudices now)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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t problem exists since the
beginning (1997) and I haven't seen it being mentioned while I am around
(~15 years), so that makes this some very old and esoteric problem.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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"oldname => newname" case.
The individual columns could get quiet big given package names can be
long, but that is a problem for the column display anyhow.
Anyway, I will leave it up to Julian what to do about this as this new
stuff is his baby.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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As a sidenote, as you haven't started with a '!' that string is a policy
violation due to "(It is not permitted for some names to be prepended
with exclamation marks while others aren’t.)". dpkg and APT both parse
such strings and do what might be meant by it through.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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get a simpler reproducer than "ran some apt command":
Do you have the same problem with e.g.:
/usr/lib/apt/apt-helper download-file 'http://example.org/' /tmp/example.html
-o Debug::Acquire::http=1
or can you reproduce it with another URI?
One from `apt update --print-uris` perhaps?
If you can, it is possible to talk to `/usr/lib/apt/methods/http`
directly on stdin to might have an easier time debugging this.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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two former files as well as info about all packages
available to you at this moment in case this is repository state
dependent which it might be… but its a big file even compressed and
a bit unwieldy to deal with in autoremove-debugging, so I hope not.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ou could add 'proposed' and e.g.
'backports' and a random set of 3rd parties like the typical Ubuntu user
with seemingly 42+ PPAs added. That is 3+X counters useless even to you
as you were just interested in the data coming from your local mirror
vs. others. And that would assume that all mirrors are complete and
available, no retries, no fallbacks, no redirects.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ate – which is the same for them all,
they only have conf-files remaining.
Specifically, as you seem to think otherwise: "locales" in state 'ic' is
not installed and behaves exactly like in state 'rc' – as in, they don't
have a behaviour at all. If you want it to be installed, just install it
and it will have the state 'ii'. Or purge it and it will be 'un'.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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at unlikely
to reach users 'soon' (with trixie of course, but I doubt that gets
backports into oblivion).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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uot;apt autoremove" doesn't remove it because of
> the OR dependency:
>
> qaa:~> aptitude why policykit-1
> i synaptic Depends pkexec | policykit-1
>
> (at least, this seems to be one of the reasons).
synaptics could drop the or on policykit-1 – or if for some rea
eir output is different; they also have behaviour
differences e.g. "apt-get upgrade" vs "apt upgrade")
As an interactive user, its is probably best to forget apt-{get,cache,…}
exist and get used to 'apt'. If that is missing something compared to
the others feel free to
like Synaptic this behaviour
of libapt might be unfortunate, but easy to work around: If you see in
Step 3 that a package is marked for complete removal already, just
MarkKeep it first before MarkDelete it again.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ont end) lock
the moment it releases the dpkg lock for dpkg. Hence the two fails and
the run of needrestart takes long enough for the other front end to
finish so that the last dpkg call aptitude makes succeeds again.
Someone who knows aptitude better – or at least has more than a passing
interested in aptitude – should check the code to proof the suspicions
made here (or disprove them of course).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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installed.
The only question that arises is: Should that ALSO, like the first
scenario set the package to manually installed given its installation
was manually requested.
The answer so far is yes – and you insist on it being changed to no,
while I keep telling you that there are usecases/scenarios for both,
so an acceptable compromise might be to implement both and offer
a choice…
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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eople grossly overestimate how easy it is for
packages to be upgraded individually (compare: t64 testing migration).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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age, period.
apt could ask about if it should modify the auto/manual installed state
based on your explicit manual install request (<- note the wording
choice) for a package you attempt to upgrade (compared to new install),
but it currently doesn't and that is what the request I merged it with
is talking about.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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uld need to involve users a lot more in
the management of it, which many would probably be happy to do, but
many also not appreciate much given the failure mode is so low key.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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#x27;Suggests'
through, but they behave like that already if installed by d-i, so that
is probably for the best for consistency alone.
In any case, I will leave d-i folks have fun with this now,
but feel free to ask apt-team if there is something we can help with.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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as
a bug rather than as a user-error you will have to tell us what you did
exactly, preferably with easy to follow steps and output. Failing that,
on your bookworm install you might be lucky and still have the
installation/upgrade and such of lvm2 in your history.log(s).
That might shine some light on it as well.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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which seems more reasonable at a glance, so might that
be a good suggestion that could be added there?
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
P.S.: I do consider my sbuild setup reasonably normal/standard, so
I spare you the details, but I am happy to add them if it turns out
I am more of a unique snowflake here than I am assuming.
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On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 07:24:32PM -0700, Chandler Sobel-Sorenson wrote:
> David Kalnischkies wrote on 3/13/24 2:28 AM:
> > What would this achieve; what is the use case?
> The use case is when a repo has too many versions of a software on it.
> I'd only be interested in se
240312113620.ga1944...@debian.org
That will search for the mail in Debians mailing list archives.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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most and as such stir it
in recentish years.
If you are asking if that behaviour was added intentionally:
https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/commit/d8a8f9d7f01c75a7bbad7a488bf359a94291d1de
That said, you can be an APT developer, too: Propose the documentation
text you had hoped to find in the first
d in working on
it, its not a good idea to add additional tasks as that is the moral
equivalent of saying: "Nobody bought it for 5€, lets ask for 20€"¹.
Either create a compelling new task referencing related ones or much
better yet do work on it yourself. Its open source after all and not
to be an "apt
upgrade" invocation in the end, confusing it with autoremove remarks or
didn't expect that some non-t64 and t64 packages became co-installable…
but never say never.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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vector a set. Note that libapt has
wrappers like APT::PackageSet nowadays which should work better and more
natural than typedef'ed std-containers… but that
transition might be a bigger effort than just adding an (untested)
`if (std::ranges::find(possible, j) == possible.end())` before the
push
bably better
served if we were to remove its documentation entirely.
What about the 1%? Well, they deserve to write the patches to improve
the manpage and potentially fixup the translations (depending on how
much they reword here).
[Case in point, the option as documented doesn't work for years and
nobody noticed – because 1% was an overstatement already; fixed in git]
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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y supposed to avoid accidents for users who don't
interact with apt directly Dir == "/" is probably the closest we can
be to a sensible default value for the inhibition here if we ignore
that ideally the front ends would do the inhibition instead of our
low-level library, but that sh
osely at the package, but even so
I think you will need to invest a lot more work into making it fit for
the Debian archive… or in other words: lots of documentation to read,
policies to follow and friends to make on and off list(s).
Good luck & Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ention of it on the list) and given that this is something that
"just" works with Docker.
As explained in the other bug, there is no veto and as you can see its
easy to completely ignore me (and anyone else) but I wanted to say it
anyhow, so that nobody is surprised later on.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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start, it might be a good idea to show us
the entire output of:
find /var/lib/apt/lists
cat /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
apt update
find /var/lib/apt/lists
And not cut that down to what you believe to be important.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ts. Not gonna
repeat myself (and Johannes) for the third time…
Please ask in user support channels if you have further questions about
what the right tool is for a given use case and how to use it correctly.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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p foo/stretch-backports" exist which can change
the candidate based on version constraints. Other solvers like aptitudes
default one (or as said the ascpud solver usually tasked with backports)
might be more willing to offer such solutions than apts default solver
in general. It is a choic
nted feature, and for the
rest of the world lets call this report a wishlist item for a feature
that might or might not be implemented in a future default solver
(probably by writing said solver first).
What I know is that we can't offer any assistance with your quest of
backporting to the last decade. This is COMPLETELY unsupported.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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have as soon as
you have actual users (I see e.g. apt-canary downloading files) that
you can solve only by being a proper part of the acquire process, not
by attaching yourself with duck tape and hot glue to its underbelly.
Especially not if you want this to be a security feature…
Best regard
exist) so that
we have to help them by generating work for many people and potentially
new upgrade problems for everyone – or if we declare them, existing or
not, a non-issue at least for the upgrade to trixie.
And on a sidenote: I would advise to reconsider interacting with dpkg
too casually – but luck is probably on your side in any case.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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able is known to exhibit the
required setup).
(I will write another mail in another subthread about the finer details
of what interacting with dpkg in an upgrade means and what might be
problematic if you aren't careful – in general, not just with aliasing)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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tional stuff as install is simple not up to the
task of making complicated upgrades work (by choice & design!).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
¹ Ironically, its not a policy requirement to have a package be
upgradable. I could perhaps invoke 'critical' due to making
unrelated soft
r, but if I look at the cost-
benefit ratio of it all I don't see the parts changing that would need
changing anytime soon so that this report has a very good chance of
staying open until the heat death of the universe (or apt being removed
from Debian, but that is only a theoretical possibility of course).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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call
the https method!).
Hope that helps & good luck finding the cause & solution.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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for a spot).
So, I am currently waiting for either vim or upstream to act first while
dealing with other housekeeping things (clang-17 support) in the
meantime; so much as a status report in case anyone wonders.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ly/in automation.
(Sry, for opting here for the lazy shortcut skipping the break & fix
bisects, to keep some time for the other things I should have a look at)
Thanks for your help & Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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feel free to contact us on IRC/mailinglist before
reassigning bugs over as they tend to get lost in our heap – and
usually, with some trickery existing facilities can be reused instead of
busy-waiting for apt in stable to support whatever someone needs now…
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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is? The code even checks for /sbin, /bin und /lib – but that isn't
all that /usr-merge entails and APT doesn't really want to be checking
for everything. Just for some easy to verify truths to ensure nothing
went south… like it seems to have happened on your system.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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a decade –
not really "new" by any standard.
So, while peer review/interacting with debian-l10n-portuguese@l.d.o would
probably not hurt, I am going ahead and merge this small update as I did
for previous iterations.
Thanks!
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ently not and hence implements it
differently without support for a lot of things possible elsewhere.
If you can come up with a list of use cases for that option (personally,
I don't see a good one) without too much by-catch we might be able to
implement a transition notice like I did for non-free-firmware.
Too late, too little, but at least it would prevent future misuse.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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kinda
scary to block the defaults meta package for a programming language
you know nothing about with your leaf package…
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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and if an example is provided without explanation),
I am closing with a veto as that seems not nearly important enough to
clutter up the bug list with a wontfix.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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about completely overhauling the
implementation/setup client and/or server anyhow.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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> in part , the reported errors/"sins", are due to this.
I would classify these as "mistake" at most 😉
> În miercuri 12 iulie 2023 14:41:44 (+02:00), David Kalnischkies a scris:
>> On Sat, Jul 08, 2023 at 01:04:28PM +, Remus-Gabriel Chelu wrote:
>> | +# Adva
ost
a review request there first.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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a report of absence.
Note that as the message says the configuration is "delayed" as in
happening in-place rather than upfront, so at least this is not
dangerous and you don't miss anything, just puzzling.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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: Comments in code meant for translators are per
convention prefixed with: "TRANSLATORS: " (see existing usages) and
should try a little harder to convey what a string is used for,
meanwhile a "localize according to your locale settings" could be
said about each and every string…
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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/apt/*.bin are
> > not present (for example, by recreating them on-the-fly)
The completion script explicitly disables the recreation on-the-fly as
creating the files takes a while robbing users for many seconds of their
interactivity. So, we can't just "fix" the completion script as that has
a(nother?) set of users complain as well.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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system
after tagging for installation (that is the most simple form
of what the commit I pointed to means with "allowing pkg modifiers for
the upgrade commands" btw).
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
[0]
https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/commit/c89b22c285d6c4a3cb64689ff26e84af4d1477f2
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bad advise given about how to add 3rd party sources,
but I don't think it is the release notes job to explain how to do that
properly (and, as said, it varies a bit by 3rd party).
As a sidenote – not a recommendation from me as I never used it myself –
the package "extrepo" is supposed to help with the usecase of adding 3rd
party repositories; it isn't new either but feel free to check it out.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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,
so as a compromise I suggest a deal: I will see to implement it if
a language team/translator asks for it here.
(translation updates are allowed in freeze, the other part would likely
need to wait for trixie through as that likely doesn't sell as release-
critical code change)
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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(sub)net on your network for example?
All in all, I don't really see a way to help you as I don't really see
how it could be a problem originating from "apt". Especially if you have
similar network problems with other tools.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
[0]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-infrastructure-announce/2023/03/msg3.html
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as well as 2023.2,
but only very lightly; at the very least apt is still happy and the
files are gone for me as intended.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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ouldn't it
be better at generating them. I mean, giving you a couple lengthy
strings to display as-is to the user? Shouldn't the URI be clickable?
And why isn't the package name? Oh, and the filename of the sources.list
file? Heh, how about opening it… (see the last paragraph) WAY to much
design work for something I initially didn't even want to implement in
apt to begin with.
I hope that clear this sorta misunderstanding up at least a bit.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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alsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/commit/5e770a07c8fd649340e83725f6d07b94c361e87c
Reintroduce:
https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/commit/afe3cd6ef1b157a07d05bbf70283e4f175813438
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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e, the command line
interfaces are more concerned with trying to making sense of what the
user might have meant with its (incomplete) input rather than being 100%
machine predictable. That apt-* are used in a lot of scripts doesn't
change that, it makes it in fact worse, as changing the behaviour is
impossible without breaking others.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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While I guess I could raise a versioned dependency on python3-bottle
from ycmd to ensure you have it installed but that isn't very elegant.
In an optimal world libpython3.11-minimal (which ships inspect.py)
would break old versions of python3-bottle, I guess, so that this
is 'fixed'
lease file (o= in pinning) or pinning by hostname
(Pin: origin). And probably other meanings I forgot^Wrepressed.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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names
where your guessing wouldn't work at all.
As I am not sure what apt-file does here and what your (perl) code
changes, I have no comment on the patch itself and what effects output
changes would have.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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work & more diff (not just by me, but e.g. translators).
At this point in time it seems better to focus this energy on the
release notes. Or, on discussing if gmake users are affected, too, …
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
[0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2022/10/msg00217.html
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enable the later config option and perhaps
mention in the documentation that this flag also effects protected.
The semi-alternative would be to add also an --allow-remove-protected
but I am not sure this is actually needed/a good idea. You have to be
careful with either if your system is importa
not all of them might have transitioned yet.
Hope that helps & this is indeed that issue,
otherwise I will have to dig a bit deeper
what is wrong as it works here for me™.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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