On 2025-05-06 12:31:08 +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> On 06/05/2025 10:34, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> > podman run -it --rm debian:trixie
> > apt-get update
> > apt-get install -y --no-install-recommends gradle
> > PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin
> > gradle
> > /bin/g
Matthias Urlichs writes:
> On 06.05.25 13:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
>> Fedora doesn't set /bin anymore in the $PATH
>
> IMHO we should follow that practice, post-Trixie.
Agreed. I wrote a bug report about that and then found it was already
reported, so summarizing:
1) login.defs can drop /bin a
El 7/5/25 a las 10:48, Vincent Lefevre escribió:
What's the status of such packages?
For completeness, they are tracked using this usertag:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bl...@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service
Given that there are still 148 open bugs, I would hope s
El 7/5/25 a las 15:35, Santiago Vila escribió:
If the transitional unit stops working in trixie, does this mean
that I should better make an upload for bookworm-proposed-updates
and tell the user that they should enable it before upgrading
to trixie, so that the upgrade bookworm -> trixie does no
Hi Andreas e.a.,
[Please Cc me on replies, I'm not subscribed.]
I'm with Jonas and h01ger here: I don't think the benefits of the current
ITM-prodedure are bigger than the bad side effects. And even more people
voiced this opinion, e.g. @ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq it says:
Pleas
Hi,
On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 07:34:17PM -0300, Antonio Terceiro wrote:
> On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 10:27:03PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > What is your offer? To take over? No, you don't want to do an ITS.
> >
> > You want to do "help" the maintainer see the light in changing their way
> > of
El 7/5/25 a las 10:39, Matthias Urlichs escribió:
On 06.05.25 13:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Fedora doesn't set /bin anymore in the $PATH
IMHO we should follow that practice, post-Trixie.
I disagree that we should do that.
AFAIK, the usr-merge was not about moving everything to usr/bin (that's
El 7/5/25 a las 12:37, Chris Hofstaedtler escribió:
They have open bugs that need fixing.
For example:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039171
Hi. While we are at it, I'd like to have some guidance on a package
for which I received one of such bugs. Asked the question here
bu
On 2025-05-07 12:37:35 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
> * Vincent Lefevre [250507 11:06]:
> > I can see in journalctl output:
> >
> > May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service
> > '/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically
> > generating a unit
On 2025-05-07 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> I think a reasonable conservative system policy is PATH=/usr/bin and
> anything beyond that is something the user or system administrator have
> to add. I think we should give up on /usr/games and move those
> executables to /usr/bin, renaming
On Wed, 07 May 2025 at 15:21:43 +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
El 7/5/25 a las 13:40, Simon Josefsson escribió:
I think we need to separate:
...
2) Removing the /bin symlink.
...
(I don't think anybody is proposing 2) right now).
My understanding is that the compatibility symlinks /bin, /lib*
On May 07, Simon McVittie wrote:
My understanding is that the compatibility symlinks /bin, /lib* and
/sbin in the root directory can never be deleted, and even the least
conservative advocates of merged-/usr don't intend to delete them,
because they are part of the platform ABI.
Correct.
--
On 2025-05-07 14:02:15 +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> That's not a problem, because today's default (according to my
> /etc/login.defs) is "/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin" (plus /sbin for root,
> plus …/games for non-root), i.e. with the symlinks last.
Note that commands may be run via other ways
On 07.05.25 12:00, Santiago Vila wrote:
For example, some configure script might look in
the PATH and decide that sh is in /usr/bin and ship shell scripts
as #!/usr/bin/sh.
That's not a problem, because today's default (according to my
/etc/login.defs) is "/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin" (plus /
On 06.05.25 13:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Fedora doesn't set /bin anymore in the $PATH
IMHO we should follow that practice, post-Trixie.
--
-- regards
--
-- Matthias Urlichs
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Urlichs;Matthias;;;
NICKNAME:Smurf
EMAIL;PREF=1:matth...@urlichs.de
TEL;TYPE=work;VALUE=TEXT:+4
Am 07.05.25 um 14:40 schrieb Simon Josefsson:
Matthias Urlichs writes:
On 07.05.25 12:00, Santiago Vila wrote:
For example, some configure script might look in
the PATH and decide that sh is in /usr/bin and ship shell scripts
as #!/usr/bin/sh.
That's not a problem, because today's default (
Vincent Lefevre writes:
> On 2025-05-07 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> I think a reasonable conservative system policy is PATH=/usr/bin and
>> anything beyond that is something the user or system administrator have
>> to add. I think we should give up on /usr/games and move those
>> e
Hi Andreas and all,
I have seen a number of bug reports over the last few days that detail an Intent
To NMU (ITN) procedure. Should this not be getting proposed/discussed here?
Regards
Phil
--
Regards
Phil
Donate: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg
--
"I play the game for the game’s own
El 7/5/25 a las 13:40, Simon Josefsson escribió:
Santiago Vila writes:
El 7/5/25 a las 10:39, Matthias Urlichs escribió:
On 06.05.25 13:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Fedora doesn't set /bin anymore in the $PATH
IMHO we should follow that practice, post-Trixie.
I disagree that we should do that
Am 07.05.25 um 16:57 schrieb Andrea Pappacoda:
Hi,
On Wed May 7, 2025 at 12:00 PM CEST, Santiago Vila wrote:
AFAIK, the usr-merge was not about moving everything to usr/bin
(that's an implementation detail) but about making /bin and /usr/bin
equivalent.
I had the opposite impression. The goa
On 07/05/2025 02:59, Simon Richter wrote:
Hi,
On 5/6/25 20:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
The problem seems that it is generating a relative path to its own
command expanded via PATH, which doesn't work because there is no /share
symlink but there is /usr/share/.
Perfectly reasonable method to sup
Hi,
I can see in journalctl output:
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service
'/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating
a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to
incl
Matthias Urlichs writes:
> On 07.05.25 12:00, Santiago Vila wrote:
>> For example, some configure script might look in
>> the PATH and decide that sh is in /usr/bin and ship shell scripts
>> as #!/usr/bin/sh.
>
> That's not a problem, because today's default (according to my
> /etc/login.defs) is
Hi Phil,
Am Wed, May 07, 2025 at 08:23:08AM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
> I have seen a number of bug reports over the last few days that detail an
> Intent
> To NMU (ITN) procedure. Should this not be getting proposed/discussed here?
You're absolutely right--thank you for pointing this out. The "
Hi,
On Wed May 7, 2025 at 12:00 PM CEST, Santiago Vila wrote:
AFAIK, the usr-merge was not about moving everything to usr/bin
(that's an implementation detail) but about making /bin and /usr/bin
equivalent.
I had the opposite impression. The goal *is* moving stuff to /usr, as
a prerequisite
On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 03:28:42PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
> a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bl...@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service
says they are already at pri
Quoting Holger Levsen (2025-05-07 18:59:27)
> On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 05:42:39PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Since you asked: I respectfully find ITN a very bad idea.
>
> +1
>
> > ITS is a process where you intend to take over responsibility.
> >
> > ITN is a process where you intend to
Simon McVittie writes:
> On Wed, 07 May 2025 at 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>>I think we should give up on /usr/games and move those
>>executables to /usr/bin, renaming any binaries that conflict.
>
> This seems somewhat off-topic for a discussion of FTBFS - I hope that
> packages don'
Quoting Andreas Tille (2025-05-07 17:16:07)
> I fully agree that any deviation from our established NMU practices
> should be discussed and, ideally, based on shared understanding. I plan
> to bring a concrete proposal to the relevant lists in the near future.
> In the meantime, feedback and concer
Am 07.05.25 um 15:28 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
On 2025-05-07 12:37:35 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
* Vincent Lefevre [250507 11:06]:
I can see in journalctl output:
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service
'/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, auto
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Blair Noctis
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-r...@lists.debian.org,
n...@debian.org
* Package name: tauri
Version : 2.5.1
Upstream Contact: Tauri Contributors (https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri)
* URL : ht
* Vincent Lefevre [250507 11:06]:
I can see in journalctl output:
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service
'/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating
a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]
Santiago Vila writes:
> El 7/5/25 a las 10:39, Matthias Urlichs escribió:
>> On 06.05.25 13:31, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
>>> Fedora doesn't set /bin anymore in the $PATH
>> IMHO we should follow that practice, post-Trixie.
>
> I disagree that we should do that.
>
> AFAIK, the usr-merge was not about
Hi Jonas,
Am Wed, May 07, 2025 at 05:42:39PM +0200 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
>
> Since you asked: I respectfully find ITN a very bad idea.
I intended to ask and thank you for your clearly expressed opinion.
> ITS is a process where you intend to take over responsibility.
Yes.
> ITN is a proc
On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 05:42:39PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Since you asked: I respectfully find ITN a very bad idea.
+1
> ITS is a process where you intend to take over responsibility.
>
> ITN is a process where you intend to put pressure on the existing
> maintainer for changing their
On Wed, 07 May 2025 at 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
I think we should give up on /usr/games and move those
executables to /usr/bin, renaming any binaries that conflict.
This seems somewhat off-topic for a discussion of FTBFS - I hope that
packages don't assume that /usr/games is in t
Vincent Lefevre writes:
> On 2025-05-07 18:18:25 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> Vincent Lefevre writes:
>>
>> > On 2025-05-07 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> >> I think a reasonable conservative system policy is PATH=/usr/bin and
>> >> anything beyond that is something the user or s
Hi!
I think Soren and Antonio summarized what I am thinking as well. If
there are seemingly unmaintained packages and we have people who are
willing to take care of them and update/refresh them by doing
something between a small NMU and a full-scale adoption, then that is
only positive.
On Wed, 7
Am 7. Mai 2025 22:50:17 MESZ schrieb Vincent Lefevre :
>> > Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
>> > a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?
>>
>> Trixie still ships the sysv-generator and we are pretty much in freeze right
>> now.
>>
>> So while I can't speak for Luca
Quoting Otto Kekäläinen (2025-05-08 08:17:27)
> I think Soren and Antonio summarized what I am thinking as well. If
> there are seemingly unmaintained packages and we have people who are
> willing to take care of them and update/refresh them by doing
> something between a small NMU and a full-scale
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Blair Noctis
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-r...@lists.debian.org,
n...@debian.org
* Package name: xan
Version : 0.50.0
Upstream Contact: Guillaume Plique
* URL : https://github.com/medialab/xan
* License
On May 07, Santiago Vila wrote:
Given that there are still 148 open bugs, I would hope systemd maintainers
consider not breaking the automatically generated units at this point
in the release cycle and do that after the release of trixie instead.
Of course! It is clearly too late for this chan
Quoting Andreas Tille (2025-05-07 21:09:36)
> Hi Jonas,
>
> Am Wed, May 07, 2025 at 05:42:39PM +0200 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
> >
> > Since you asked: I respectfully find ITN a very bad idea.
>
> I intended to ask and thank you for your clearly expressed opinion.
>
> > ITS is a process where
On Wed, 07 May 2025 17:42:39 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
If I am mistaken and ITN is only mild one-off contributions same a NMUs
then I fail to see a reason for simply doing a 21-day-delayed NMU.
Side note: AFAIK, there are DELAYED queues only for 0 to 15 days
currently.
Cheers,
gregor
On Wednesday, May 7, 2025 10:56:43 AM Mountain Standard Time Jonas Smedegaard
wrote:
> Quoting Holger Levsen (2025-05-07 18:59:27)
>
> > On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 05:42:39PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > Since you asked: I respectfully find ITN a very bad idea.
> >
> > +1
I personally thin
On 2025-05-07 17:45:51 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 07.05.25 um 15:28 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> > On 2025-05-07 12:37:35 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:
> > > * Vincent Lefevre [250507 11:06]:
> > > > I can see in journalctl output:
> > > >
> > > > May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator
Santiago Vila writes:
> El 7/5/25 a las 21:44, Simon McVittie escribió:
>> That's not clear. Different developers have different
> interpretations of what "packages must build successfully from source"
> means - as a minimum they need to be buildable on our official
> buildds, but the more differ
Le Wed, May 07, 2025 at 07:34:17PM -0300, Antonio Terceiro a écrit :
> Maybe just not calling it an NMU would be a compromise?
Indeed there are the team uploads that bypass NMU restrictions under the
assumption that the changes are welcome and done with team spirit. It does not
require to have a
El 7/5/25 a las 23:33, Simon Josefsson escribió:
You could probably say that the "must" only applies to "normal systems", but
by using both "should" and "normal" in your characterization of "consensus",
you are already deviating two steps from what Policy says. If you think Policy
does not really
On 2025-05-07 15:03:40 +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 03:28:42PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
> > a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bl...@debian
On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 08:43:24PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
I think we should give up on /usr/games and move those
executables to /usr/bin, renaming any binaries that conflict.
This seems somewhat off-topic for a discussion of FTBFS - I hope that
packages don't assume that /usr/games is in
On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 10:27:03PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> What is your offer? To take over? No, you don't want to do an ITS.
>
> You want to do "help" the maintainer see the light in changing their way
> of working themselves, by doing a one-off non-mild "NMU" which is not an
> NMU becau
On Wed, 07 May 2025 at 20:43:24 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Simon McVittie writes:
I hope that
packages don't assume that /usr/games is in the PATH at build time in
any case.
Is it a bug if they do? Buildd's have /usr/games in the default PATH so
I don't think we notice now.
That's not c
El 7/5/25 a las 21:44, Simon McVittie escribió:
That's not clear. Different developers have different interpretations of what "packages must
build successfully from source" means - as a minimum they need to be buildable on our official
buildds, but the more differences from that we're willing t
On 2025-05-07 18:18:25 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre writes:
>
> > On 2025-05-07 14:40:01 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> >> I think a reasonable conservative system policy is PATH=/usr/bin and
> >> anything beyond that is something the user or system administrator have
> >> to
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