Teddy,I thank you for agreeing with me,but can you not call Rugxulo
"kid"?You seem condescending to him.I would ask that you treat all members
with respect,as we are all on the same community.If you want to say to
people straight up that they don't know anything,then I don't think a team
is fit for you.What you were saying to Rugxulo was disrespectful.We are on
the same team,trying to make a worldwide DOS environment.Thank you for your
consideration.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:43 AM, Rugxulo <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Teddy T. <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Bret,
> > I really don't know how Asus treats FreeDOS, I didn't even know FreeDOS
> > could be on those machines before Asus put the blame on it.
> > I use Windows, LiveCDs, but except command prompt under Windows, I never
> > boot on DOS only.
>
> What "LiveCDs"?? I'm no Microsoft professional, so I have no idea.
> (WinPE?) I don't know of any such thing for Windows, only Linux (or
> other alternate OS).
>
> > Windows does boot well... as long as it's boot option 1, because Asus
> crap
> > BIOS is unable to use any other option 2, 3, etc.
> > I don't know about any other DOS-kind and will not test them, the point
> is
> > to have at least default stuffs working already.
>
> You're asking the wrong people, then. If you don't have (nor even
> want) DOS, then it's irrelevant to this issue.
>
> > Jayden,
> > I totally agree that it should probably be notified that Asus and FreeDOS
> > are not 100% compatible and ASUS computers with FreeDOS embedded may not
> > work properly... because of Asus's unability to use it, not because of
> > FreeDOS.
> > So maybe the warning should be that Asus uses FreeDOS on some of their
> > products but due to a BIOS issue some features might not work as
> expected.
>
> This I just can't understand. You realize that FreeDOS can't work at
> all without a fully compatible BIOS, right? (IIRC, most OEMs don't
> write their own from scratch.) Most other OSes explicitly avoid it as
> much as possible (esp. due to bugs). Those don't rely on it nearly as
> heavily as DOS does. I know this isn't much help right now, but I
> suggest you look up "CoreBoot", if you think that kind of thing would
> prevent this kind of "hard to update" BIOS bug in the future.
>
> Are you sure you're really talking about a legacy BIOS here and not
> something newer like UEFI?
>
> > Rugxulo,
> > Asus is selling PCs worldwide and have technical support in most
> languages
> > as far as I know. Well, french and english so-called support are in
> maghreb
> > and other cheaper places like many lowcost companies, but they also are
> > present worldwide (as far as I know), as for commercials, resselers and
> > else.
>
> I'm aware of their name and how big they are. My point was that I
> don't have any personal experience with them (and don't own any
> machines by them), thus I don't know the fine details about their
> company. Also, I was trying to prove a point: no, they didn't pay me,
> we don't even speak the same language or have the same currency. I
> realize you were probably being facetious, but it's still extremely
> ridiculous.
>
> > Anyway no matters the country of their head-office, they have to
> > respect any law and rules of any country they sell their products in,
> like
> > for any other brand/companies.
>
> It's ridiculously naive to think that the host country can 100% tell a
> foreign national what to do. There may be some minimal guidelines, but
> there's no way that foreign entities care much beyond that. They don't
> "own" these guest companies at all.
>
> Again, unless they directly lied to you or major portions of
> functionality are broken or missing, you probably don't have a case.
> But I'm not a lawyer, so that's just IMHO.
>
> > As far as I know, most countries, governments and customers do care about
> > bugs and problems, this is why products come with warranties (even some
> > clothes). A company refusing to offer this warranty risks to have to pay
> > millions to its customers (or even governments) in case of procecution.
>
> Default warranty is very limited and only for a very short period of
> time. It's not much. And half the time it's not even (practically)
> redeemable.
>
> > That's what will hopefully happen (again) to Asus... A computer unable to
> > boot is not "harmful" enought you think ? If they are unable to propose a
> > feature working properly, they just shouldn't propose it.
>
> If it doesn't boot Windows (the main OS) properly, then maybe you'd
> have a point. But other ancillary functionality is probably not
> crucial enough to warrant much of a case.
>
> > You may not know it but a computer is not a game boy, it's also used to
> work
> > buy a few million people, and what you call "obscure" OS are used buy
>
> Work? Not with a Windows gaming laptop ... unless you want to say that
> you're a gaming professional. (Not impossible but less common. Some
> YouTubers, gaming olympians, but that's about it.)
>
> "Obscure" OS doesn't apply to anything except non-Windows. In that
> case, then yes, it is "obscure" because most people (by far) don't use
> other OSes (unless they know exactly what they're doing, and those
> kinds are not "simple" Home users), at least not for gaming.
>
> > million of prople too, including technicians, admins, banks, polices and
> > governments, as secured/virus-proof vpn remote systems for example...
>
> If you're implying Linux (or other alternate OS), then it's because
> most of these people know exactly what they're doing, what their
> requirements are, test beforehand, or pay out the nose (esp. Business
> / Professional / Enterprise) for extra fancy support. None of that
> extra help is given to normal Home users, esp. gamers. They don't have
> the same requirements that banks and governments have (for security or
> other needs).
>
> > but once again, if "most people" really didn't care, it would have been
> more
> > clever not to propose this option, right ? Sorry kid, but you should
> learn a
> > bit more about computers and what they are used for instead of guessing
> what
> > the world "think", really.
>
> If you aren't doing anything "mission critical", how much in damages
> do you think you'll receive?? A gaming laptop is not exactly a
> crucially important machine. It doesn't get the same care as that of a
> "professional".
>
> > I don't get your point talking about games, kid,
>
> Most games are "Windows only", so anything not directly related to
> that isn't important (for gaming). So if you can't boot Linux or
> FreeDOS or whatever, it's not directly related to the functionality of
> the machine, even if you're used to it or demand it or expect it
> "because everyone else supports it".
>
> > and just so you know, this "ROG" computer has the aesthetic of a pro
> model, not a kid one,
>
> Are you a pro? Are you using it for "professional" reasons? Did you
> pay extra for support? Did they violate any contracts with you?
>
> > but who cares and how is it related !? And why should customers care
> about Asus having "BIOS engineers" or not ?!?
>
> Somebody has to fix it! If they didn't write it (or don't have sources
> or don't know how to fix it), they can't do anything. They have to
> find the guys that did, get them to identify the problem, find time,
> and pay them to fix it (and wait), test, then redistribute it. It
> doesn't happen overnight.
>
> > You may not know but facebook is free, not 2000$ and clever humans
> created
> > "standards" so most of the millions web browsers, office suites and
> > applications can work together no matter the hardware... but once again,
> how
> > is it even related to a BIOS/boot issue ? Don't you know it's totally
> > Windows UNrelated ?! But yes, even if this exemple is stupid, browsers DO
> > update regularly to solve their problems, so according to your example
> Asus
> > MUST update their BIOS too, because after all most of us don't care about
> > browsers updates and only "geeks" must encounter specific bugs... right ?
>
> Hey, Facebook and web browsers were your examples, not mine.
>
> I've had Facebook wig out on me before. I've had to change browsers
> (and OSes) because it stopped working. I've had a lot of other things
> fail on me, too. The idea that "standards" or developers are
> accountable at all is laughable. They just don't care. And that's when
> they know enough (which isn't often). Sorry to burst your bubble, but
> life is too complicated to get what we want. There's nothing perfect
> in this world.
>
> "Facebook is free" ... but paying their employees is not. Besides,
> it's only free because they can collect and market your data (and
> others back to you) and run ads and sell ad space. They are not a
> charity.
>
> > I'm surprise people who accept to pay for "somehow" working crap exist,
> but
> > luckely most people don't and so we have warranties and laws to protect
> > consumers agains not honest companies from selling shit and say "you
> paid,
> > too late, you should have known before buying and should be glad a part
> of
> > it is working because it's hard to create a working stuff".
>
> You only get VERY limited warranties and only for short periods of
> time. It's not absolute. You really do have to do your own research
> before buying anything. "Marketing" won't tell you the cold, hard
> facts. You have to figure it out on your own. Some things you'll never
> know until you try, but by then it's too late. We need reviewers to
> tell us these things, and we need checks to verify that things
> actually work, but this is not as easy as it sounds.
>
> BTW, not sure about what the legal system is like in your country, but
> is it free? Or are you paying them money to sue ASUS to fix their
> bug?? This is another barrier. I'm surprised you're even considering
> it. Normally you can't even win for trying, and that's only if you
> have the proof and money. It's a losing battle, I'd say, not worth
> messing around with (unless forced).
>
> > One last thing Rugxulo: you should search a bit about what % of work is
> > dedicated to creating things and what % is dedicated to optimisation and
> > bug-tracking (in most good companies), you'll be amazed and you should
> > understand a bit more what most of 7 billions customers really agree to
> pay
> > for.
>
> Business / Enterprise / Professional needs are much different than
> that of Home users. They pay extra and have very specialized
> requirements (and often special training for those aspects), much
> unlike the average joe who just plays a few games on his laptop. So
> their demands are stricter, but it totally does NOT mean that everyone
> else (who doesn't pay and doesn't need it) gets all of the same
> benefits.
>
> But I don't know what else to tell you. You and I are wasting our time
> debating these things. You go ahead and do whatever you want. Sorry I
> can't help any further. But this is not a FreeDOS problem (nor mine
> either).
>
>
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