Thanks Robert. Yes, what I had actually originally been asking about was
the possibility of someone who knows what they're doing, adding a way to
show each step as it's done rather than just the final results. I'm a bit
of a newbie when it comes to Linux, so I expect it would take quite a while
for me to accomplish such a task on my own... so I asked, because what I
want to do is get working on making language pairs as quickly as possible,
not spend years or decades trying to figure out what I need to know in
order to begin.
So far, I have been working on experimental language pairs using HFST on
one or both of the monolingual resources, and there are many things which
are still too mysterious for me to make the progress I am trying to.
Donald A. Kronos
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 7:27 AM, robert <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hello Donald,
>
> I do not know if my experience is relevant, but I started a new language
> pair two months ago. I had no knowledge of Apertium. I should add also
> that I am not a trained linguist, nor a practising translator. My work
> has been (at best) 'nursery' level. However, it has been successful for
> my own ends.
>
> I do not want to talk about your problems directly, as Kevin has
> answered directly about one issue, and we could spend a lot of time
> hunting down problems.
>
> 'apertium-viewer' is the program I think people mean. It shows the
> various steps in translation. It is a Java program, and I was unable to
> get any Apertium Java program working; I've seen the message about
> 'apertium-xxx-yyy.automorf' several times. I use Linux with an OpenJDK,
> and was very reluctant to try a full Oracle install (an obvious next
> step).
>
> However, the Apertium project is unlike many projects I have visited. It
> seems to have been assembled from bursts of enthusiasm, with a great
> deal of love, and much input from professional thought. On a relative
> scale, there is more code lying round this project than any other I have
> encountered.
>
> My solution was my solution, and may not work for you. I am not
> recommending this approach, but using it as an illustration. I used
> 'apertium-tolk', which I think is deprecated. But it is in Linux
> repositories and, a Python program, it is still working. Once I had
> apertium-tolk working, I could build a basic new pair and see results.
>
> Then I needed, as you have suggested you need, to see the steps in
> translation. For this, since I am working in Linux, I was able to use
> the commandline and modes. Please see this Wiki page,
>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Modes_introduction
>
> I wrote this page only three weeks(?) ago. I do not know how far
> advanced you are in understanding, but here is my proposed replacement
> for the overall diagram of Apertium structure,
>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/File:Apertium-structure.svg
>
> I am not recommending these wiki contributions because I authored them.
> When I developed my pair, I became very fond of the Apertium Wiki, due
> to the generous efforts of many contributors, and the astonishing range
> of material. But I have come to realise that there is a layer of
> material missing; of general introductions and indexing of material. If
> you have any ideas about where I could work, please tell me (yes, I have
> written Wiki pages to fully update installation and new pair
> instructions).
>
> And I would add, my experience with Apertium, though occasionally
> frustrating, has lead to results which have been wonderful. I only wish,
> and have been actively seeking, time and justification to continue. I
> hope the problems you have encountered do not spoil your projects.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> On Sat, 2017-01-14 at 15:12 -0800, Donald Arthur Kronos wrote:
> > I do not know the proper procedures for a "mailing list" such as this,
> > but I'm trying very hard to learn enough of how Apertium works to
> > develop language pairs on it, so I'm giving this a try.
> >
> >
> > I had been asking on the #apertium IRC channel about a way to see the
> > steps being taken by Apertium in the process of translating something,
> > especially in an experimental language pair that one hasn't shared
> > with the public yet (in the early stages of learning how to make
> > monolingual resources and language pairs), and perhaps even the
> > potential addition of step-by-step round-trip translation support,
> > from a source language to a target language and back, seeing the steps
> > along the way, and I was directed to Apertium-view as a tool which
> > should be able to do at least part of what I was looking for.
> >
> >
> > After downloading Apertium-view and getting it to work on an
> > online-language pair I could see that it would serve most of the
> > purpose I had in mind, and even includes substantial additional
> > functionality, but unfortunately when I tried it with a local
> > experimental language pair it complained that the mode file I
> > specified could not be found. So, I made a new experimental language
> > pair on my system's main drive, thinking perhaps it can't see my
> > removable media, and that got it to see the mode file, but then it
> > claims all the other files it needs cannot be found. Actually, there
> > were more steps involved than what I'm describing, but I'm trying to
> > keep this simple. For example, I noticed the original error message
> > gave the address of the mode file twice, in one correctly case
> > starting with "/" and in the other case not, so... yeah... long story.
> > Anyway, I have been trying to figure out how to contact the developer
> > of Apertium-view and here's a copy of the text of the e-mail I
> > recently sent out as one attempt...
> >
> >
> > "Saluton. I hope this reaches the right person.
> >
> >
> > I am trying to work on language pairs on Apertium, but am having
> > trouble finding the information I need, so I recently asked about any
> > tool that could help me see the steps Apertium is taking as it
> > translates from one language to another, and I was directed to
> > Apertium-viewer. However, I have been unable to get it to work for my
> > local experimental language pairs. I see in the wiki page that it is
> > supposed to work with SVN source directories but I still have no clue
> > how to set up such a thing, nor do I think my experimental language
> > pairs are ready for that stage since I am still trying to learn how to
> > make them properly. Apertium-view cannot seem to open any files at all
> > from my removable media (which is the only place I really have space
> > to work) and even when I made an experimental language pair in my home
> > directory and was able to get it to open a mode file, it still failed
> > to be able to open any of the files it then needed to proceed. For
> > example, it says that it cannot open
> > "/home/tz/apertium-qlt-qay.automorf.bin" even though that file does
> > exist, is not on removable media, and has its permissions set so that
> > it should be accessible. I'm somewhat of a newbie on Linux so it MAY
> > BE something I'm doing wrong, but I have no way of knowing. Please,
> > help if you can."
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > Maybe he'll see this... or maybe someone else will see it and be able
> > to tell me how to work around it, or perhaps my expressed intent will
> > inspire something I hadn't even directly thought of. Regardless, I
> > hope this message does some good, somehow.
> >
> >
> > Donald Arthur Kronos
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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