Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Lorenzo Prince
they set for subscriptions of Fedora systemsand the choice of apt-get or yum for 3rd-party free repositories. Personally, I like apt-get cause I find it easy to use, but Up2date is probably the best bet all around concidering it isn't necessarily good to have to wate for a 3rd-party repository to pi

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Michael Schwendt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:02:23 -0700, Mike McMullen wrote: > Does anyone have an idea when the demo accounts are no longer functional? Where did you read that it would happen? - -- Michael, who doesn't reply to top posts and complete quotes anymore.

RE: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Buck
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora) > Up until Monday Up2Date was free for filling out a questionaire every > two months. The $60 provided you with convenience and earlier access > to binary downloads and free binary downloads of RHEL. > > Up2Date Demo

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Benjamin J. Weiss
> Up until Monday Up2Date was free for filling out a questionaire every > two months. The $60 provided you with convenience and earlier access to > binary downloads and free binary downloads of RHEL. > > Up2Date Demo was free for 2 months for each installation with a unique > email address. At th

RE: WTF? (was yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora))

2003-09-24 Thread Mark Haney
Ed Wilts wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 01:59:39PM -0400, Mark Haney wrote: >> I know it's a lot, but if someone could kernelize it for me, I'd be >> really happy. > > Read the FAQ at http://rhl.redhat.com. > Actually I was just there reading what it said, but it mostly looks to me like typical

Re: WTF? (was yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora))

2003-09-24 Thread Ed Wilts
On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 01:59:39PM -0400, Mark Haney wrote: > I know it's a lot, but if someone could kernelize it for me, I'd be > really happy. Read the FAQ at http://rhl.redhat.com. Everything beyond what's at the link above is pure speculation. There is even confusion as to whether or not up

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Mike McMullen
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:37:42 -0400 > "Buck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Up until Monday Up2Date was free for filling out a questionaire every > > two months. The $60 provided you with convenience and earlier access to > > binary downloads and free binary downloads of RHEL. > > > > Up2Date Dem

RE: WTF? (was yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora))

2003-09-24 Thread Mark Haney
than to attract financial support from those of us willing and able >> to pay the $50 - 60 per year. >> >> That's my $.02 worth >> > > Hey Buck, > > You'll get _at least_ the functional equivalent of up2date with > Fedora. apt-get and yum access

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Sean Estabrooks
> > That's my $.02 worth > Hey Buck, You'll get _at least_ the functional equivalent of up2date with Fedora. apt-get and yum access is already part of the Fedora Project. But RedHat will not be maintaining updates as long as they were for previous offerings or making any SL

RE: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Buck
48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora) Marc Adler wrote: >Let me get this straight: I paid RH for update support >for a year on two machines when I could've gotten the exact same thing >for free? > > Yes, that's correct. Thanks for helping

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-24 Thread Alan Peery
Marc Adler wrote: Let me get this straight: I paid RH for update support for a year on two machines when I could've gotten the exact same thing for free? Yes, that's correct. Thanks for helping support Redhat, a company who has done a lot of good work for us all. I did my part by buying a bo

Re: yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-23 Thread Hal Burgiss
On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 02:37:02PM -1000, Marc Adler wrote: > I've followed this thread with interest, especially the references to > yum and apt-get. Let me get this straight: I paid RH for update support > for a year on two machines when I could've gotten the exact same thi

yum/apt-get (was Re: Fedora)

2003-09-23 Thread Marc Adler
I've followed this thread with interest, especially the references to yum and apt-get. Let me get this straight: I paid RH for update support for a year on two machines when I could've gotten the exact same thing for free? -- Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:33:59 -1000 Linux 2.4.20-20.9 Mutt 1.4.1

Re: apt-get and holding back packages

2003-09-09 Thread Sean Estabrooks
On 08 Sep 2003 21:50:18 -0500 Bret Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 19:35, TK wrote: > > Curtis Vaughan wrote: > > > > > I want to hold back certain packages prior to running apt-get upgrade. > > > Can't seem to find the

Re: apt-get and holding back packages

2003-09-08 Thread Bret Hughes
On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 19:35, TK wrote: > Curtis Vaughan wrote: > > > I want to hold back certain packages prior to running apt-get upgrade. > > Can't seem to find the answer in the man pages. > > > > Curtis > > Latest Debian APT has a feature called pin

Re: apt-get and holding back packages

2003-09-08 Thread TK
Curtis Vaughan wrote: I want to hold back certain packages prior to running apt-get upgrade. Can't seem to find the answer in the man pages. Curtis Latest Debian APT has a feature called pinning: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get#s-pin However, if you are using apt-g

apt-get and holding back packages

2003-09-08 Thread Curtis Vaughan
I want to hold back certain packages prior to running apt-get upgrade. Can't seem to find the answer in the man pages. Curtis -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list

Re: up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Martin Marques
On Jue 10 Jul 2003 17:50, Cliff Wells wrote: > > I don't know if apt-get gets you non-Red Hat apps though. Never > > checked. Never needed to. > > Yes it does. freshrpms.net and other apt repositories provide quite a > wealth of otherwise difficult to install packa

Re: up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Cliff Wells
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 13:34, Ed Wilts wrote: > On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 05:20:09PM -0300, Martin Marques wrote: > > up2date gives you updates very fast (mirrors update quite a few days after > > the update is availably through up2date). > > apt-get is great for getting aplic

Re: up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Martin Marques
On Jue 10 Jul 2003 17:34, Ed Wilts wrote: > On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 05:20:09PM -0300, Martin Marques wrote: > > up2date gives you updates very fast (mirrors update quite a few days > > after the update is availably through up2date). > > apt-get is great for getting aplication

Re: up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Ed Wilts
On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 05:20:09PM -0300, Martin Marques wrote: > up2date gives you updates very fast (mirrors update quite a few days after > the update is availably through up2date). > apt-get is great for getting aplications that you don't have installed! up2date is gre

Re: up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Martin Marques
On Jue 10 Jul 2003 17:12, Tom Wilson wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone know if there are any problems with using up2date and apt-get > together? Do they step on each others toes? Could you possibly use > up2date to keep up on the system and use apt to just install new > packages?

up2date and apt-get

2003-07-10 Thread Tom Wilson
Hi all, Anyone know if there are any problems with using up2date and apt-get together? Do they step on each others toes? Could you possibly use up2date to keep up on the system and use apt to just install new packages? TIA -- Tom Wilson Reg. Linux user# 199331 -- redhat-list mailing

Re: apt-get for RH 9

2003-04-06 Thread Eduardo Silva
. But, is there a source yet for RH9 when using apt-get? thanks = Winning an argument on the internet is like getting 1st place at the Special Olympics * GAIM ID: cmmiller1973

apt-get for RH 9

2003-04-05 Thread CM Miller
Please forgive if this has been asked, but I am behind in my RH Digest due to the volume. But, is there a source yet for RH9 when using apt-get? thanks = Winning an argument on the internet is like getting 1st place at the Special Olympics

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-21 Thread Schotty
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 19:25, Alexander Skwar wrote: > Hello. > > I'm thinking about converting to Red Hat from Mandrake. One extremely > useful tool in Mandrake, was "urpmi" which is somewhat like apt-get from > Debian (or apt-rpm from . Both tools allow easy in

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-21 Thread Alexander Skwar
Michael Schwendt wrote: Spend some time examining the rpmdb-redhat package and the Thanks, I will! Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (en) Homepage: http://www.iso-top.biz | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] iso-top.biz - Die günstige Art an Lin

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Emmanuel Seyman
On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 10:29:48PM +0100, Alexander Skwar wrote: > > As all the urpmi tools, urpmf only uses the urpmi database and thus also > takes non-installed packages into account. But apt also can do this. Install the rpmdb-redhat package and rpm will know about every package shipped wit

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Michael Schwendt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:29:48 +0100, Alexander Skwar wrote: > > rpm -qf /usr/include/time.h > > [askwar@teich askwar]$ rpm -qf /foo/bar > Fehler: file /foo/bar: No such file or directory > > ;) > > As all the urpmi tools, urpmf only uses the urpmi d

RE: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Mike Langhorst
I've been having really good luck with the apt-get rpm package. Check it out here: http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/ There are other databases out there to get more up to date information, just look around. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Alexander Skwar
Gordon Messmer wrote: Get apt from http://freshrpms.net/ Ah, good to know. rpm -qf /usr/include/time.h [askwar@teich askwar]$ rpm -qf /foo/bar Fehler: file /foo/bar: No such file or directory ;) As all the urpmi tools, urpmf only uses the urpmi database and thus also takes non-installed

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Alexander Skwar
Tibbetts, Ric wrote: I'm not saying anything about whether it's good, or bad. Just warning you to take a look. I'm actually converting the other way, from Mandrake, back to Redhat. That's the way I also wanted to go - Mandrake -> Redhat. Although I think I really need a tool like urpmi (or wh

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Gordon Messmer
On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 05:25, Alexander Skwar wrote: > I'm thinking about converting to Red Hat from Mandrake. One extremely > useful tool in Mandrake, was "urpmi" which is somewhat like apt-get from > Debian (or apt-rpm from . Both tools allow easy installation of

Re: Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Tibbetts, Ric
other way, from Mandrake, back to Redhat. Although, I will miss urpmi. Great tool! It saves you from "Dependancy Hell". Ric Alexander Skwar wrote: Hello. I'm thinking about converting to Red Hat from Mandrake. One extremely useful tool in Mandrake, was "urpmi" which is s

Equivalent to urpmi/apt-get for RedHat?

2003-01-20 Thread Alexander Skwar
Hello. I'm thinking about converting to Red Hat from Mandrake. One extremely useful tool in Mandrake, was "urpmi" which is somewhat like apt-get from Debian (or apt-rpm from . Both tools allow easy installation of RPMs. So, if I wanted to install proftpd, I'd type: urpmi

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-21 Thread Jeff Bearer
format due to volume of traffic on this > > list. > > > > But, did u run it as root or as a end user? > > > > I believe that only root can run apt-get. > > > > thanks > > > > -Chris > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PRO

Re: apt-get failure message (paul taylor)

2002-11-21 Thread CM Miller
At a command prompt, type: su - This gives us root will all environmental settings. Then try running apt-get and see what happens. -Chris >I have run the command again in root ( not as su). It >seems to start >then it >stops with this fuller error message:

apt-get failure

2002-11-21 Thread paul taylor
I ran the command again as roo and not as su. A more detailed error message. "apt-get rpm/rpmListparser.cc 240: string rpmListparser: archeture ( ) : Assertion 'res' failed" Does anybody have a clue as to what this means thank you paul taylor -- redhat-list mailing lis

apt-get failure message

2002-11-21 Thread paul taylor
I have run the command again in root ( not as su). It seems to start then it stops with this fuller error message: "apt-getrpm/rpmListparser.cc 240: string rpmListparser: Archetechure ( ) : Assertion 'res' failed" Does anybody have any idea what this means?? paul taylor -- redhat-list maili

Re: apt-get

2002-11-21 Thread Martin Marques
On Mié 20 Nov 2002 17:05, paul taylor wrote: > I have redhat 8.0. I am trying to sue apt-get to keep my box up to date > the distro only has 7.3. I added 8.0 to the command line. the error > message: "Assertion 'res' failed" > > why is this happening and how

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-21 Thread CM Miller
Here is a good website that I point alot of folks to about this apt-get http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/ thanks -chris --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I am bad, it does have an 8.o section, sorry... Gary wrote: > Hi Paul, > > On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, 9:45 PM, you put fo

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-21 Thread Dale Kosan
I am bad, it does have an 8.o section, sorry... Gary wrote: Hi Paul, On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, 9:45 PM, you put forth, in part, about "apt-get failure": P> rpm-src ftp://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt redhat-8.0-i386/redhat os P> rpm-src ftp://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt re

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-21 Thread Dale Kosan
The tux family site does not have a 8.0 directory.. CM Miller wrote: Please forgive if this has already been answered, I get the digest format due to volume of traffic on this list. But, did u run it as root or as a end user? I believe that only root can run apt-get. thanks

Re: apt-get

2002-11-21 Thread Dale Kosan
go.. Paul Taylor wrote: I have redhat 8.0. I am trying to sue apt-get to keep my box up to date the distro only has 7.3. I added 8.0 to the command line. the error message: "Assertion 'res' failed" why is this happening and how do I fix it?? thank you -- http://www.win

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-20 Thread CM Miller
Please forgive if this has already been answered, I get the digest format due to volume of traffic on this list. But, did u run it as root or as a end user? I believe that only root can run apt-get. thanks -Chris --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I want to use the apt-get feature to k

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-20 Thread Gary
Hi Paul, On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, 9:45 PM, you put forth, in part, about "apt-get failure": P> rpm-src ftp://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt redhat-8.0-i386/redhat os P> rpm-src ftp://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt redhat-updates-8.0/redhat os P> rpm-src ftp://apt-rpm.tuxfa

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-20 Thread Paul Taylor
Gary I made the changes at the bottom. Redhat 8.0 sources.list  only has 7.3  I changed it to 8.0. it isn't working. Does this give a clue?? thank you paul # This list is restricted to Red Hat distributions. # # signed repositories can have a [sigtag] # if you remove it, no digital signature

Re: apt-get failure

2002-11-20 Thread Gary
Hi Paul, On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, 7:39 AM, you put forth, in part, about "apt-get failure": P> I want to use the apt-get feature to keep Redhat 8.0 in tip top shape. P> the sources.list file only has references to 7.3 and earlier. P> I added 8.0 figuring there had t

apt-get failure

2002-11-20 Thread Paul Taylor
I want to use the apt-get feature to keep Redhat 8.0 in tip top shape. the sources.list file only has references to 7.3 and earlier. I added 8.0 figuring there had to be a mistake that the elves did not fix. The error message is as follows: " Assertion 'res' failed" A

apt-get

2002-11-20 Thread Paul Taylor
I have redhat 8.0. I am trying to sue apt-get to keep my box up to date the distro only has 7.3. I added 8.0 to the command line. the error message: "Assertion 'res' failed" why is this happening and how do I fix it?? thank you -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mai

apt-get

2002-11-20 Thread paul taylor
I have redhat 8.0. I am trying to sue apt-get to keep my box up to date the distro only has 7.3. I added 8.0 to the command line. the error message: "Assertion 'res' failed" why is this happening and how do I fix it?? thank you -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mai

Re: apt-get kernel upgrade

2002-10-10 Thread Gordon Messmer
On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 06:59, Roger Schmeits wrote: > > How does one do a kernel upgrade using apt-get? apt-get install kernel apt will give you a list of available kernel packages, appended with version numbers. Pick one of these, and use the whole string as the name of the packages yo

apt-get kernel upgrade

2002-10-10 Thread Roger Schmeits
How does one do a kernel upgrade using apt-get? I was digging in the archives of apt-get but did not quite get the syntax of parameters. Anybody know? roger -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=unsubscribe https://listman.redhat.com/mailman

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Gordon Messmer
On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 12:57, Ed Wilts wrote: > > This isn't always guaranteed to work. If package A splits into A and B, > and A now has a dependency on B that it didn't before, rpm -F will not > catch it. up2date will. > > Before you say this is very theoretical, let me point out that I've se

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Jason Costomiris
On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 11:45:11AM -0500, Roger Schmeits wrote: : I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. : This is a new install with no updates from RH. : : * : apt-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm : apt-devel-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Roger Schmeits
I am amazed at what happens when a person reads the man pages. this command works like a charm. wget -r --level=1 ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/updates/7.2/en/os/i386/ one question -- what about md5sum? On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 15:27, Bret Hughes wrote: > On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 15:16, Rog

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Roger Schmeits
Do you have an good suggestions on how I could yank all those updates down a some odd ball hours? *** wget -r ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/updates/7.2/ *** I am assuming some type of script running in cron? Roger Time to go home for the weekend -- thanks for the info.!!! On Fri,

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Bret Hughes
On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 15:16, Roger Schmeits wrote: > Where does redhat keep all its updates? If I want to have a machine to > keep current updates where does a person find them?? > I use ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/updates Bret -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMA

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Roger Schmeits
Where does redhat keep all its updates? If I want to have a machine to keep current updates where does a person find them?? On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 13:58, Bret Hughes wrote: > On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 13:19, Roger Schmeits wrote: > > > > version 4.0.3 > > > > go get the updates from redhat's site

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Ed Wilts
On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 01:58:25PM -0500, Bret Hughes wrote: > > I have never used the up2date service but it seems like a good thing for > a single machine. I keep a directory on the lan with all the updates dn > go a rpm -F on it occationally from each machine on the network. This isn't always

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Gordon Messmer
On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 09:45, Roger Schmeits wrote: > I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. > This is a new install with no updates from RH. You grabbed the wrong one. Go to http://apt.freshrpms.net/ The third link is to apt for "non-updated Red Ha

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Bret Hughes
On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 13:19, Roger Schmeits wrote: > > version 4.0.3 > go get the updates from redhat's site or a mirror. There is an updated version out there. seems like you eill need popt and gnorpm updates too IIRC. There are quite a few updates for 7.2. I would be a good idea to upgrad

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Roger Schmeits
version 4.0.3 On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 12:40, Bret Hughes wrote: > On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 11:45, Roger Schmeits wrote: > > I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. > > This is a new install with no updates from RH. > > > > * >

Re: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Bret Hughes
On Fri, 2002-08-16 at 11:45, Roger Schmeits wrote: > I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. > This is a new install with no updates from RH. > > * > apt-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm > apt-devel-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm >

RE: apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Carter, Shaun G
-Original Message- From: Roger Schmeits [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 12:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: apt-get install I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. This is a new install with no updates from RH. * apt

apt-get install

2002-08-16 Thread Roger Schmeits
I have been trying to install apt-get (RH7.2) using the following rpms. This is a new install with no updates from RH. * apt-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm apt-devel-0.3.19cnc55-fr8.i386.rpm ** These are the error messages that I am getting... [root@localhost root]# rpm

Re: Apt-get

2002-07-14 Thread Greg Wright
*** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 14/07/2002 at 1:23 AM Jesse Angell [EMAIL PROTECTED] [gregausit/redhat-list] wrote: >Is it possible to install apt-get on a redhat 7.1 system? >If so where do I get the source code, or rpm? > www.freshrpms.net Regards Greg Wrigh

Apt-get

2002-07-13 Thread Jesse Angell
Is it possible to install apt-get on a redhat 7.1 system? If so where do I get the source code, or rpm?     --Jesse AngellPalaceUnlimited.com#1 Palace Host

Apt-Get for Redhat

2002-05-28 Thread CM Miller
Ya, I guess this was the crown jewel for Debian for awhile, and now any system that is RPM based has this options. Do they have anything for .tgz files? I still like these more than the RPMs. Check out the URL: http://freshrpms.net/apt/ thanks -Chris = *

Re: "apt-get" for RPM

2001-01-04 Thread Peter Peltonen
een different versions (I cannot install packages packed with rpm-4 with rpm-3.05) I wonder how does apt-get fit into this scenario...? Peter ___ Redhat-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list

"apt-get" for RPM

2001-01-04 Thread Michael R. Jinks
yesterday there were some folks looking for this; finally found my bookmark: http://freshmeat.net/news/2000/12/02/975819599.html -- Michael Jinks, IB // Technical Entity // Saecos Corporation "No one speaks English and everything's broken." -- T. Waits "Tom Waits would have made a decent sysad