out Debian on the Raspberry Pi!
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG &quo
need to be there.
>You may argue that a contributor can find "someone" to setup a bouncer for
>them. But this is
>pretty difficult if no-one around you does any of that.
Accessing IRC with a bouncer is already
ly an important point. The usually means that make a
>project socially work are not there.
>
>Not that we should have daily standups :-)
We could offer weekly video conferences. I might be willing to provide
technical guidance during those. I would be an exception
at we offer: looking for a sponsor.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 160040
bies), and optionally to
a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of
the heart").
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Hea
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:24:45PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
That would be nice and the work is already ongoing.
Well, let's switch over to RPM then.
Greetings
Marc, leaving this thread for today for mental health, making a mental
note to have at least one meal with wRAR in
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:32:49AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Marc Haber writes:
Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an
IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be
bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties?
Yes? I refuse
r distributions do?
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordis
at have an RFH Bug in WNPP. Could it be the case that we're
talking about different things?
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|
them away. Reasons:
See above.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
ying "help appreciated". That is still current
even after 20 years especially if no one is home.
PS, similarly with RFP/ITP? (oldest RFP is about to turn 24!)
Those things get cleaned up regularly and I consider that a nuisa
else is doing this particular work ;-)
Greetings
Marc
¹ I want u-boot!
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordi
On Sat, 31 May 2025 20:17:59 +0200, Santiago Vila
wrote:
>I don't see a big problem in those messages being "noreply",
>considering that they are generated automatically,
Answers to these messages shouldnt result in a generic bo
ely care about and makes it hard to watch
my merge requests. It's just too big.
Can I have salsa somehow show me all repositories that I have ever
committed to?
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Quest
aries are not backwards compatible, you might want to talk to
the Debian Games Team (pkg-games-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org) whether
they plan to package the 3.0 series independently from the 2.x series in
Debian 14/forky.
Greetings
On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 10:27:09AM +0100, Sean Whitton wrote:
On Wed 28 May 2025 at 10:04pm +02, Marc Haber wrote:
My personal pet peeve is the difference between the source package and the
packaging git repository contents. Those two especially differ in the state of
patches: They're ap
right?
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature | How to ma
might be unnecessary to know in five years, in 2025 it is still a
must-know and must-not-be-confused.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Ger
Hi,
On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 05:26:31AM +0200, Joost van Baal-Ilić wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 10:04:01PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
My personal pet peeve is the difference between the source package and the
packaging git repository contents. Those two especially differ in the state
of
have anything to say
anyway.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
N
n. Thank
you very much, and I hope that you can make good use of my feedback.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."
th systemd units that use
security.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf,
s number may be increased by the use of SMTP Service Extensions.
I believe that exim4's default setting (which can be trivially overriden
in config) is sane here: Don't accept a message that you probably cannot
deliver.
H
ian's fault.
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
On Fri, 23 May 2025 10:00:22 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez
wrote:
>On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 10:59:47AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 08:57:36 +0100, "Jonathan Dowland"
>> wrote:
>> >Red Hat have transitioned almost entirely to JIRA.
>>
>&g
transitioned almost entirely to JIRA.
Thankfully that's not an option for us (not dfsg free).
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginn
ving said that I'll shut up to avoid friendly advice
from the community team.
I mentioned Discourse because that was the topic of the last
discussion of this kind we had a few years ago.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
On Thu, 22 May 2025 18:10:54 +0200, Matthias Geiger
wrote:
>Nice to have the raw numbers; > 16k users is indeed a lot.
>The most recent number I could find for codeberg was 11k users and 12k
>repos.
Salsa happens to be one of the largest gitlab instances that exist.
Gr
contributors by throwing
away the BTS and the mailing lists.
The project is going to get a lot more diversity this way, yes.
I'll stop participating here, I don't want to get friendly advice from
the community team and know when to shut up.
Gree
, when our
data is in another "existing" solution?
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona
e feeling of a mailing
list". That is so utterly false...
Listen. You're entitled to suggest new tools. I am entitled to say
that the tools we have are just fine. That's the way it is.
Greetings
Marc
--
Mar
ould like to keep the BTS with its opportunity to pull up a
complicated bug report in my mail client WITH FULL THREADING.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
gt;for that package or as a system-wide default."
>
>I think this is still the best practice, even if underdocumented.
adduser will support this behavior in forky, should it not be thrown
out earlier.
Greetings
Marc
--
--
an
12 are nearly zero.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
pted if it were called
>"Debian.source.conf" or something neutral like that.
Debian/source/branches
Grüße
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Nec
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 14:17:18 +0200, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>I mean, adduser isn't going to be somewhat-obsolete-for-some-usecases
>(not all of them!) because somebody decided that Marc is a horrible
>human being and/or his work is and has been completely useless, quite
>the
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 14:20:45 +0200, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>On 28.04.25 12:56, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Could somebody with an LWN subscription share a friends link?
>
>Subscriptions to LWN are free for DDs, somebody (HP IIRC) sponsors them.
Yes, but it is suggested that the resour
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 13:50:19 +0200, Daniel Gröber
wrote:
>Hi Marc,
>
>On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 12:31:24PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> I was just told off-the-records that [...]
>
>Consider the motives of those staying out of the public limelight.
>
>Does consensus need
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 10:59:30 - (UTC), Sune Vuorela
wrote:
>On 2025-04-28, Marc Haber wrote:
>> The technical reasoning was sound (persistent /etc/passwd is going
>> away, so packages who need their uid better declare it via sysusers so
>> that it is recreated automat
that and would like to thank
the people contributing the code. Sad that it will live for like a
fifth of the time the bug was open.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadr
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:54:53 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler
wrote:
>Fedora is discussing what to do in a related context:
>https://lwn.net/Articles/1018082/
>But sysusers might or might not actually help them.
Could somebody with an LWN subscription share a friends link?
Greet
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 10:36:54 +, Holger Levsen
wrote:
>On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 12:31:24PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Not that I know of. I was just told off-the-records that it does not
>> make sense to spend any more time on adduser since it's going to be
>> forbi
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 11:34:18 +0200, Andreas Tille
wrote:
>Am Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 11:02:13AM +0200 schrieb Marc Haber:
>> That's my biggest gripe about Debian. It strongly influences the only
>> voice I have in that regard, the DPL vote.
>
>... speaking as DPL I wa
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:57:23 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler
wrote:
>* Marc Haber [250428 08:52]:
>>This is one more example of Debian lacking technical leadership, with
>>small groups taking technical decisions for the entire distribution
>>without even mentioning.
>
>Yeah
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 10:46:39 +0200, Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues
wrote:
>Quoting Marc Haber (2025-04-28 08:39:17)
>> I am saying that adduser was written in a time when useradd had about
>> a fifth of its current features, and that the local admin can use
>> useradd to
people deciding in the secret that
Debian will stop using /etc/passwd are forbidding adduser. Using
adduser will be an RC bug.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im He
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 11:04:25 -0300, Antonio Terceiro
wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 02:18:11PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> That leaves no space for adduser between useradd and sysusers. At
>> least not enouch space to waste any more life time on it.
>
>From how you write,
own adduser, which is
totally independent (and also totally incompatible), so I'd advise all
other programs which should be useful outside the Debian ecosystem to
not invoke adduser but to resort to standardized tools.
Greetings
Marc
--
--
le /usr and empty /etc.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 15:08:18 +0200, "Andrea Pappacoda"
wrote:
>On Sun Apr 27, 2025 at 2:18 PM CEST, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Useradd has grown most of that functionality in the last two decades.
>> That leaves no space for adduser between useradd and sysusers. At
>>
d sysusers. At
least not enouch space to waste any more life time on it.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom "
k, grep, sed and sort - that's
>dependencies on four essential packages".
I'd rather do that than having to spend hours updating year numbers in
machine readable debian/copyright.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Habe
On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 06:32:54PM +, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
Am Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 09:44:47AM +0100 schrieb Marc Haber:
tl;dr: New Wiki Page https://wiki.debian.org/I18n/ForPackageMaintainers,
please review
I just did it. I usually updated it right away, but at one or two
points it is
nities to stop it by committing to
>actively maintain it themselves.
Also, please note that Debian is going to freeze for the next stable
release in ten days. It is unlikely that the new Dillo package will be
in that release.
Greetings
Marc
--
---
le flat since there seems to be no actual reason to not just support
>both mechanisms.
Can your package handle the classic on-disk format when it is compiled
with 64 bit time_t? I remember there was some discussion about that
back then.
Greetings
Marc
--
---
On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 21:26:05 +, Bill Allombert
wrote:
>Le Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 12:03:51PM +0100, Marc Haber a écrit :
>> tl;dr: We need more docs about best practices to handle translations as
>> a package maintainer
>
>I would suggest you find someone on debian-i
On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 06:33:19PM +, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
Am Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 05:49:40PM +0100 schrieb Marc Haber:
"Using no line numbers" => invoke msgmerge with --no-location?
Yes.
"Web pages mentioned above" => I don't see web pages being me
destroyed translations (including comments)
>* diff -u test-de_DE-maint+transl.po test-de_DE-transl+maint.po
>*
>**
I think this is way beyond what we could expact from J Random Pack
y when invoked?
In the mean time, I have added code to adduser to unset $ENV{CDPATH}.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginnin
ically want the
>collaboration to be done without using version control?
A NMU is something else than co-maintenance. A NMU is by defintition
minimal invasive. I think that is documented somewhere.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Ma
On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 09:06:35PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
xgettext comes with a ton of options to help you. Have a look at the
diff I've attached for what I've been able to do.
Will do and take your suggestions. But it is still a wrapper needed.
I have put this into the adduser w
I had four years of French in high
school, in practice that is barely enough to navigate public transport
in Paris. When I try to speak French, every second word is English and
the Grammar anyway.
Oh, my, am I going to have fun in Brest?
tl;dr: New Wiki Page https://wiki.debian.org/I18n/ForPackageMaintainers,
please review
Hi,
On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 12:03:51PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
Whenever I am angry about something in Debian, I start writing docs. So
I try this here, but here I don't know enough to be really helpf
ort. Am I on the
correct track with that?
IMO this information should probably go on i18n.d.o.
That page only has a list of languages and links to the respective
coordination pages. And it also links to wiki.d.o/I18n, and that
On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 11:36:27AM +0100, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
Le 2025-03-11 12:03, Marc Haber a écrit :
(2)
There is some point in the development process when it is time to ask
for translations. Translators need a POT file which contains all the
translatable strings, and they
to remove(!) locations on
checkout and restore them from the pot file on commit, that solves the
majority of conflicts.
How would that look like? git filters are a mystery for those wizards.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 14:00:46 +0100, Lee Garrett
wrote:
>P.S.: This failure mode isn't even documented in the release notes.
But they do, don't they, recommend to have console access available
during an upgrade right?
G
ian source.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |
at might happen. Rest
assured that package maintainers already try to avoid situations like
that to the best of their knowledge.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse
esn't display at all in some e.g. in
Roundcube 1.6.10 that my service provider is using. An old version of
Thunderbird displays it at text/plain.
My Mutt also displays it as it would display text/plain. I wouldn't have
known the unusual Content-Type if I hadn't look
m
inclined to put on https://wiki.debian.org/I18n a dedicated chapter
titled "for package maintainers", probably between "Keyboard input
infrastructure support" and "Meetings" as this is a matter beyond
interna of the translation teams and the i18n effort. Am I
tl;dr: The situation is totally different, we should not compare apples
and peaches here.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose
On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:56:28 +0100, Simon Josefsson
wrote:
>Marc Haber writes:
>> I still haven't heard arguments why people refuse to use an installer
>> that comes with non-free firmware, asks whether this firmware should
>> be used, and if answered "no", no
n
>within the Debian project, which is my perception of the vote outcome.
There are not concerns about spending time. There are no people
willing to do so.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questions
ware ends up in
the installed system. The resulting system is free regardless whether
there was non-free firmware on the installation images.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Comput
c/apt/sources.list and so on. The installer does list the firmware
suggested for install to enable all devices - you don't have to take
that suggestion.
And if you don't, none of the evil code ever gets loaded or installed,
it just sits there on the media, right?
Greetings
Marc, who like
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:39:13AM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:58:48AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please.
yeah, it's pretty funny to see a team burn out and have the same silly
& salty discussion about this again
ublic attention.
Greetings
Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please.
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryd
On Wed, Mar 05, 2025 at 10:12:05PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
On 05.03.25 21:35, Marc Haber wrote:
And which of the millions of changes would that be that would break
YOUR system?
The number of changes that can adversely impact your ability to boot
*or* your network connectivity (but
?
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421
experienced sysadmins.
It is also a challenge for a package maintainer to judge WHEN to drop
a higher priority NEWS entry.
I think that our release notes recommend one or another way for console
access for upgrades for exactly this reason.
Greetings
Marc
|_| \_|
>
>Network interface name changed: please update config files before reboot.
Why would people who do not read the NEWS.Debian or the Release Notes
read that? And how would you solve the issue of people wanting more
and more of those attention banners?
Greetings
Marc
--
loads.
I think that most teams would be eager to help to remove you from
"Uploaders" in git, getting active with the next upload.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers
;>I wonder who would bother to add themself to Uploaders of a package,
>>but then refuse to read bugs related to it.
>
>Packages accumulate Uploaders, because people who lose interest in a
>package or in Debian as a whole rarely remove themselves.
Tha
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:15:16 +0800, Blair Noctis
wrote:
>On 03/03/2025 01:40, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Maintainer: Debian Adduser Developers
>> Maintainer: Debian Sudo Maintainers
>
>Honestly I never understood how exactly @p.d.o addresses work.
>Devref says it'
Notes and Outlook have done incredible damage to E-Mail culture,
introducing Top-Posting as the widely accepted (but totally inferior)
way to have discussions in e-mail. Please let us consider using a method
that doesn't make discus
On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 21:14:54 +0800, Blair Noctis
wrote:
>Open source webmails also exist.
"When you're 10 out of 10 but it's your CVSS score".
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber
s being
extensively used for team internal communication, the only disadvantage
being that package@p.d.o isn't archived. There are no moderation
mechanisms, but that has never been needed in my cases.
In fact, this works so well that we should document that in the new
maintainer&
n mutt/vim.
Greetings
Marc
--
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |
rge amounts of e-mail
including mailing lists"), so we need to cater for the fact that
e-mails are written in an entirely different software (an "editor"¹)
than it is consumed in.
Greetings
Marc
¹ to make it harder, the combination between mail reader and editor
multiplies. That was wo
going to to do anyway. It's a pity that it is needed (and
expected, nowadays) to put such things in writing.
So, please, let's do something like "Debian mailing list etiquette"
instead.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
less than 80
> characters wide.
The sending program also knows more what the writing person wants to
say.
> I have composed this email without an arbitrary column wrap, so that those
> receiving it can see how it is handled by their various clients and devices.
Clumsy to read
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 17:12:48 +, Colin Watson
wrote:
>On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 03:28:35PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Especially if the list just goes the (wrong) way of so many commercial
>> security tools and/or consultants who just compare version numbers and
>> flag o
are version numbers and
flag our stable versions as vulnerable regardless whether we have
patched vulnerabilities or not.
Just parsing version numbers is easy, it has been done hundreds of
times, and each one of those times is wrong and a waste of resources,
both of
On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 17:08:44 +0100, Pierre-Elliott Bécue
wrote:
>I'd not, eg, expect some Canonical employee to refrain voting a GR
>because they might be biased. We all are biased.
Some call it bias, others call it opinion. It's fine.
talk on this list about
> performance penalties with dpkg’s current configuration, and some requests
> for
> actual benchmark data showing those performance penalties.
Doing fsyncs to often after tiny writes will also cause write
amplification on the SSD.
I should use eatmydata more o
deliberately chose to have not.
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG
file and triggerring unnecessary conffile
>prompts.
Maybe our conffile handling should be modified to automatically accept
comment-only changes to dpkg-conffiles.
Greetings
Marc
--
Marc Haber | " Questio
ts a way to visibly say "I'll do the job until the second someone
else shows up".
Greetings
Marc
--
----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | B
y people are okay with allowing random git commits
> to Debian group but are not okay with uncoordinated uploads.
Yes, I fully agree with that.
Greetings
Marc
--
-----
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Compute
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