You have to remember that "old" CentOS had Red Hat employees doing most of the building of the packages on Red Hat equipment. Rocky/Alma have to spin up both the infra and the skills to do it. At least Alma is associated with a company to provide support to those who want to buy it and pay for the infrastructure.
Oh, and you can see the RHEL 9 kernel spec file template here <https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/src/kernel/centos-stream-9/-/blob/main/redhat/kernel.spec.template>. I don't think you have to worry about that being "hidden" and impeding the clones ability to build their packages. In case you may not know, I am a Red Hat employee. Kent On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 3:40 PM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > It will certainly be interesting to see how the ecosystem is affected by > shift to Centos-Stream. > > > > One thing I have noticed in the few times so that I’ve been on Rocky’s > Discourse forum site is that what seems to be plaguing them most often are > small, fine detail issues after updates to packages. If they are having > build out of the Centos-Stream GitHub repo, as Kent was saying, then I > think they are going to have a rougher time of it. Of course, and I must > admit that I never followed the forums much on the CentOS package > development side, but this may have also been the case with CentOS > repackagings as well. > > > > I need to follow up with my colleague down in Huntsville to see where the > members on his team have gotten to with their Rocky evaluations. Since they > are gov’t contracting, and apparently tapped CentOS quite a lot, they will > undoubtedly have to be putting Rocky through the ropes. > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows > > > > *From: *Tilghman Lesher <[email protected]> > *Sent: *Tuesday, October 19, 2021 3:22 PM > *To: *NLUG <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > You're right; they could just publish modified tarballs and be in > compliance with the requirements of the license. But that would also > entail extra effort on their part. The SRPMS are easy for them to > publish, not only because it's their internal format for distributing > source, but it also allows contributors to contribute modifications in > that same format, which makes it easier (and cheaper) all around. > > But could they expend a lot more effort to make it harder on everybody > else? Sure. > > Again, I don't think that's particularly likely. It's really not in > their best interests to put forth more effort just to make it harder > on others in the ecosystem. > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 3:05 PM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > First off, Tilghman, I, like you, am entitled to my opinion, justified > to you (or anyone else for that matter), or not! > > > > > > > > Second, are you certain that the Red Hat *contributed* SRPM spec and > related patch files are covered? Could they not just publish source patched > tar balls of the core source components? What constitutes compliance here? > And a good chuck of what the spec and patch files are also doing are not > source modifying, but parameters, config files settings, and other items of > convention (file/folder naming, locations, and what not), etc., which is a > big piece of what the RPM approach sets out to do. Is that covered? > > > > > > > > I think with CentOS, we’ve come to expect that the SRPMS and related > components are covered, but that may have just been Red Hat’s convention to > more easily comply with the GPL aspects. But that has largely gone away > now, unless Centos Stream is including all that (and, honestly, I don’t > know the answer to that, mainly because I haven’t had a chance to look). > > > > > > > > I’ve worked with Linux non-stop since I first download the floppy images > for the SLS distribution in mid-1992. That said, I’ve always thought that > how Red Hat released and permitted projects like CentOS to build 100% > compatible clones from their production line SRPMS was something living on > barrowed time. And perhaps, Red Hat itself would hold to this position. But > Red Hat ain’t really “Red Hat” any more, at least not totally. And I recall > all too well the days of “Big Blue” IBM from late 70s up through the late > 80s. Yes, they’ve played somewhat “nice” the past 30 years, but that > doesn’t mean they will always continue doing so. > > > > > > > > Maybe Centos-Stream will prove out for Rocky and Alma, and enable them > to continue to mirror RHEL. I truly hope they can. Only time will tell. > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > > > > > From: Tilghman Lesher > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:16 PM > > To: NLUG > > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > > > > > > But that's in effect what they would be doing, because publishing the > > SRPMS are meeting their requirements under the license for the open > > source projects. Under the various GPL-derived licenses, they are > > REQUIRED to publish the changes for any distributed software. No > > longer publishing those changes is, in effect, taking it > > closed-source. > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 1:25 PM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > By the way, I never said anything about them taking anything closed > source. Just making it a lot harder to remain 100% RHEL compatible (which > is what really matters to me). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Tilghman Lesher > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 12:56 PM > > > To: NLUG > > > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They really can't do that for most packages, not without violating the > > > license of the various projects. Remember, you can modify software to > > > your heart's content, but as soon as you redistribute it, you have to > > > include the source code for those changes. There's far too much > > > contributed software for them to be able to switch to closed source. > > > > > > As to who could take them to court over this, there are multiple > > > entities, such as the Free Software Foundation, as well as the > > > Software Freedom Conservancy, who have the resources to prevail in > > > court, not to mention the immediate revolt within their own ranks, for > > > trying to go Closed Source. There's just no way this scenario would > > > succeed. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:44 AM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > In theory (litigated, or not), yes. But, should IBM cut off access > to the SRPMS, whose got the money to take them to court over it? Very few > other commercial entities out there depend on Red Hat’s SRPMS, so there’d > likely be little incentive to lay down the consider costs to go after them. > Without those SRPMS, maintaining a free Rocky or Alma (or even having a > CentOS in the first place) would be next to impossible, at least in the > sense of mirroring RHEL. Funny how this aspect is often glazed over. Red > Hat could also share source in a way that makes it much more painful to > even bother with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Kent Perrier > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:54 AM > > > > To: nlug-talk > > > > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 6:43 AM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> And, of course, I can’t help but wonder if it will it eventually > get “CentOS’d(ead)” by IBM as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > What influence does IBM have over Rocky Linux to kill it? All of the > RHEL code is GPL, Rocky (and Alma) will always have access to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [email protected]. > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CA%2B6_KC96vxbwd_TgNHctyuFfvTyTSBUcG0AL2Yem%3D5guZKtYxw%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to [email protected]. > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/32768296.117329.1634661845701.JavaMail.zimbra%40mail.jobsoft.net. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tilghman > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > > > 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https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/1325932306.117625.1634667950457.JavaMail.zimbra%40mail.jobsoft.net. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Tilghman > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAHPkZcXZfzS%2Bu2M%2Bcp%2BB1THJ1MZHmcSfdp-0A8Yh5q4j_P0fkw%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "NLUG" group. > > To post to this group, 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