You're right; they could just publish modified tarballs and be in compliance with the requirements of the license. But that would also entail extra effort on their part. The SRPMS are easy for them to publish, not only because it's their internal format for distributing source, but it also allows contributors to contribute modifications in that same format, which makes it easier (and cheaper) all around.
But could they expend a lot more effort to make it harder on everybody else? Sure. Again, I don't think that's particularly likely. It's really not in their best interests to put forth more effort just to make it harder on others in the ecosystem. On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 3:05 PM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > First off, Tilghman, I, like you, am entitled to my opinion, justified to you > (or anyone else for that matter), or not! > > > > Second, are you certain that the Red Hat *contributed* SRPM spec and related > patch files are covered? Could they not just publish source patched tar balls > of the core source components? What constitutes compliance here? And a good > chuck of what the spec and patch files are also doing are not source > modifying, but parameters, config files settings, and other items of > convention (file/folder naming, locations, and what not), etc., which is a > big piece of what the RPM approach sets out to do. Is that covered? > > > > I think with CentOS, we’ve come to expect that the SRPMS and related > components are covered, but that may have just been Red Hat’s convention to > more easily comply with the GPL aspects. But that has largely gone away now, > unless Centos Stream is including all that (and, honestly, I don’t know the > answer to that, mainly because I haven’t had a chance to look). > > > > I’ve worked with Linux non-stop since I first download the floppy images for > the SLS distribution in mid-1992. That said, I’ve always thought that how Red > Hat released and permitted projects like CentOS to build 100% compatible > clones from their production line SRPMS was something living on barrowed > time. And perhaps, Red Hat itself would hold to this position. But Red Hat > ain’t really “Red Hat” any more, at least not totally. And I recall all too > well the days of “Big Blue” IBM from late 70s up through the late 80s. Yes, > they’ve played somewhat “nice” the past 30 years, but that doesn’t mean they > will always continue doing so. > > > > Maybe Centos-Stream will prove out for Rocky and Alma, and enable them to > continue to mirror RHEL. I truly hope they can. Only time will tell. > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > From: Tilghman Lesher > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:16 PM > To: NLUG > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > But that's in effect what they would be doing, because publishing the > SRPMS are meeting their requirements under the license for the open > source projects. Under the various GPL-derived licenses, they are > REQUIRED to publish the changes for any distributed software. No > longer publishing those changes is, in effect, taking it > closed-source. > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 1:25 PM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > By the way, I never said anything about them taking anything closed source. > > Just making it a lot harder to remain 100% RHEL compatible (which is what > > really matters to me). > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > > > > > From: Tilghman Lesher > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 12:56 PM > > To: NLUG > > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > > > > > > They really can't do that for most packages, not without violating the > > license of the various projects. Remember, you can modify software to > > your heart's content, but as soon as you redistribute it, you have to > > include the source code for those changes. There's far too much > > contributed software for them to be able to switch to closed source. > > > > As to who could take them to court over this, there are multiple > > entities, such as the Free Software Foundation, as well as the > > Software Freedom Conservancy, who have the resources to prevail in > > court, not to mention the immediate revolt within their own ranks, for > > trying to go Closed Source. There's just no way this scenario would > > succeed. > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:44 AM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > In theory (litigated, or not), yes. But, should IBM cut off access to the > > > SRPMS, whose got the money to take them to court over it? Very few other > > > commercial entities out there depend on Red Hat’s SRPMS, so there’d > > > likely be little incentive to lay down the consider costs to go after > > > them. Without those SRPMS, maintaining a free Rocky or Alma (or even > > > having a CentOS in the first place) would be next to impossible, at least > > > in the sense of mirroring RHEL. Funny how this aspect is often glazed > > > over. Red Hat could also share source in a way that makes it much more > > > painful to even bother with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Kent Perrier > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:54 AM > > > To: nlug-talk > > > Subject: Re: [nlug] CentOS replacement?OpenSUSE? Ubu20? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 6:43 AM Mark J. Bailey <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> And, of course, I can’t help but wonder if it will it eventually get > > >> “CentOS’d(ead)” by IBM as well. > > > > > > > > > What influence does IBM have over Rocky Linux to kill it? All of the RHEL > > > code is GPL, Rocky (and Alma) will always have access to it. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "NLUG" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected] > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > > > --- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "NLUG" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to [email protected]. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CA%2B6_KC96vxbwd_TgNHctyuFfvTyTSBUcG0AL2Yem%3D5guZKtYxw%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "NLUG" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected] > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > > > --- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "NLUG" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to [email protected]. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/32768296.117329.1634661845701.JavaMail.zimbra%40mail.jobsoft.net. > > > > > > > > -- > > Tilghman > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "NLUG" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "NLUG" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAHPkZcVfuFQWiMqF0iLGETjxgxnJ7BaN9iHDvuSpbcZN9%3DUAgg%40mail.gmail.com. > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "NLUG" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "NLUG" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/1325932306.117625.1634667950457.JavaMail.zimbra%40mail.jobsoft.net. > > > > -- > Tilghman > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAHPkZcXZfzS%2Bu2M%2Bcp%2BB1THJ1MZHmcSfdp-0A8Yh5q4j_P0fkw%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/774695258.117891.1634673938377.JavaMail.zimbra%40mail.jobsoft.net. -- Tilghman -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAHPkZcVxdrzodv-oXmgLoHtCv4HpP46Jxjc32-9RMVNny9u93w%40mail.gmail.com.
