>> I think it is important that all the non-free packages are very clearly >> optional, and very clearly separable from the free ones. > > When UI is based on OpenGL, how OpenGL drivers can be optional ?
As long as there is some kind of supported UI in MeeGo that doesn't need OpenGL, or one of the reference platforms has free OpenGL drivers, things are fine, I'd say. The N900 might not be a good MeeGo reference platform for OpenGL UIs if it requires a non-free component, but if the OpenGL UI runs fine on other reference platforms that do have free OpenGL drivers (like a regular Intelish laptop, say), MeeGo itself is not compromised. > Or should we sacrifice usability of 99.9% of end users not using any > OpenGL jost for making OpenGL drivers optional ? Of course, if Nokia productizes MeeGo for its own devices, we will add all the non-free components that are needed to ensure a good end user experience, such as high quality OpenGL drivers and components that implement DRM. But the focus of MeeGo is not the end user: It is developers who want to build upon a Open Source platform. The promise of MeeGo, at least as far as I understand it, is: Look, here is a industry strong platform for mobile devices, and it is Open Source. And Open Source means: You can modify and distribute it freely, without having to ask permission from anybody. This is an important promise and many people will largely base their commitment on having been given that promise. We all know what a pain it is to work with binary-only blobs. Using them is fine, but developing with them is very painful. Want to change toolchain? Can't simply recompile them. Found a bug in them? Good luck getting it fixed. Want to introduce a new policy engine that they need to interact with? Good luck getting them to make the changes and getting it right with less than 10 iterations because you can't send patches. Labelling MeeGo as Open Source is a promise that people don't have to put up with all this. I would even say it is the core differentiator of MeeGo against other mobile platforms based on Linux. We should take it seriously. >> I.e., it must be possible to get MeeGo running on the reference >> platforms without any non-free package. The result might not perform >> optimally, and not all hardware might be accessible, but it must boot >> to the UI and be generally useful. > > Do you really think that Meego in N900 with SW accelerated Mesa OpenGL > would be usefull ? No, and that makes it a bad reference platform for MeeGo. Hopefully, there are better ones. >> In other words, it should be possible to remove all non-free packages >> from MeeGo without losing anything essential, and we should consider >> actually doing this. > > That will be impossible in pocket sized device. It depends to a large degree on what you consider "essential", and I think we have different things in mind here. For me, the essentials of MeeGo are to be a good platform upon which independent vendors can build products, and to be a good Mobile GNU/Linux distribution that the Open Source / Free Software communities can rally around. > Removing all OpenGL from UI removes also all usability features with > compete aggainst iPhone and Android. Yes, OpenGL is important, and as long as there is a free driver for it on at least one hardware platform supported by MeeGo, I am happy. > I think that it is best to make as good UI as possible using all OpenGL > tricks, > if someone does not like closed OpenGL drivers, then s/he should vote with > his/her valet > and buy HW where is open source OpenGL drivers. Yes, exactly, and MeeGo should support those hardwares as well or better than the ones that need non-free drivers. >> If the non-free packages are essential and can not be removed, MeeGo >> would be a farce, in my opinion. > > Don't blame MeeGo about bad decisions of silicon makers. No, that is not what I wanted to say, sorry for being unclear. Not MeeGo itself would be the farce, but the marketing efforts around it so far. We can not say "Finally, we are doing it right! Open Source as it is meant to be! Come along, everything is free!" and then add in small print "but ignore this essential non-free binary blob, please". For me it is all about being essential or not. As long as it reasonably possible to ignore the non-free bits, MeeGo is on the right track. (As another example, the N900 bootloaders are essential for the N900, but not for MeeGo.) > I hope that Intel reads this thread and we shopuld have > Intel based reference platform with OSS OpenGL drivers. Yes. _______________________________________________ MeeGo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
