"why not give it a try?" - fine, come up with a proposal that addresses rather than ignores the original reasoning behind labs current structure. That has not been don yet, that's my concern.
There IP issues if apache release is made - CLAs are only a part of the IP due diligence process. Allowing non-ASF committers only amplifies this problem. I'm not saying don't try it, I'm saying these issues need to be addressed in any proposal moving forwards. Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 15 Jun 2011, at 09:32, ant elder <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Ross Gardler <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 15/06/2011 02:11, florent andré wrote: >> >> ... >> >>> B) Doing releases : >>> Some express the need of doing release. Con expressed are related to >>> "legal engagement" of Apache in such release and the necessary oversee >>> of already really busy mentors. >> >> This misses the original point for not allowing releases. Labs is not >> intended to be a way of "routing around" the incubator. >> >> It also misses the point that labs is not supposed to be producing usable >> code, it's a place for fast fail experiments. Usable code should go through >> incubation. >> >>> C) Include non Apache's commiter (let's call them Externals) : >>> Ant propose this but the answer was "it's not possible" [1] because : >>> - Externals have to sign a CLA >>> - Will accept Externals as commiter >>> >>> Well, this is what is done is no problems during a new incubator >>> project... Where is the problem here ? >> >> If we make the rules the same as the incubator why have labs at all? This is >> supposed to be a simple, no commitment playground for people who have earned >> merit. It is *explicitly* not a place for creating new communities. >> >>> Here comes two more personal POV, idea, whatever : >>> >>> - labs like an idea box : >>> From my point of view - may be false - actual labs is more a "write >>> code place" than an express, discussion, grow and develop ideas place. >>> May a way to write some (visible from labs site) webpages, have a wiki >>> for idea expression could be good... Some others tools can be imagined. >> >> It's not the incubator, why do we want to make it like the incubator? >> >> Personally I really like the fact there are almost no rules around here. If >> I want to do something with my fellow committers I just ask for a lab and >> its done (I've never owned a lab, but I have contributed to a couple and >> used a couple). If I want to do something with a broader community then I go >> to the incubator or offsite. I really don't see the problem. >> >> I don't want to see labs go into the attic but I don't want to see it gather >> a whole raft of rules that prevent me people from freely experimenting the >> way it is intended. >> > > The main purposes of the Incubator are about IP clearance and learning > how to run a project in The Apache Way with community building etc. > The Labs guideline that 'Labs is not intended to be a way of "routing > around" the incubator.' to me relates to those two things. If one or > more people work on a Lab they don't necessarily need to be doing it > The Apache Way, and if they have submitted a CLA and aren't violating > that then there shouldn't be IP issues, so if a Lab did a release I > don't think it would necessarily imply "routing around" the incubator. > > I also don't see how following the normal Apache processes for things > like committers or releases sees Labs "gather a whole raft of rules" > it looks more like the opposite to me - Labs has come up with a whole > raft of rules to prevent Labs doing things and thats one of (just one > of) the reasons people are going elsewhere. > > IMHO if the Labs rules were simplified and more innovative or even > experimental ways were found to fit in with the ASF then that would > help make it more vibrant. Why not just give it a try! > > ...ant > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
