Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> Development in "trunk" is not done properly at the moment.
Back up 1 step; define "proper", with pointers to the
http://tomcat.apache.org/dev/ documents, if they exist.

Otherwise you are doing a good job of showing the entire vote is
really nothing but ad hominem attacks between a few developers,
and has much less to do with code than personalities.

> There's a large thread on these issues. At the time, the API design was
> downright bad. It did improve to some extent (without further debate),
> but this was all done in trunk without any collaboration.

You just said you improved it; ergo you collaborated.  You don't need
dev@ mails to discuss commits until someone disagrees, just as you did.

Your veto in that example said "leave it on trunk".  If you now disagree
that it can be improved to satisfy your original veto, restate your
technical veto and just ask for the revisions to be reverted.

It's project history, even if it was a failed attempt at concensus.
So it belongs on svn trunk, if only in the attic.

Of course all code is written without collaboration, unless you are all
trying to reach a consensus character-by-character on how the source
code is created.  How it's integrated, or if it is at all, is a matter
for the project to determine together.

> I wish to move out the current trunk and use stricter commit policies to
> avoid these sort of issues, and force agreement before commit.
>
> Rémy

So you are saying trunk was used according to the project policy and
you would now like to change the commit policy for trunk?  That's fine,
but comments that people are abusing trunk doesn't jive with what you
just said that you want to change policy.

Beyond withdrawing the silly vote, asking for the code you veto to be
removed, and moving forward, don't you think you should hold a vote to
make trunk R-T-C first?

I've actually glanced through the various earlier messages and really
see only two points of view expressed on the list about any of the actual
code.  Yours, and Filips.  Which leads me to read the whole debate as
a turf war over Tomcat.  I can't believe this project would already be
at the melt-down point again, but here we are.  It's not your personal
playground, nor is it Filip's personal playground.

Feel free to contradict my opinion with a pointer or two at some technical
input from other project members, of course.  But I become concerned when
only two people in a project even grok the technical implications of what
is in their repository.

Some backstory,

As a frame of reference, the same thing happened at APR/HTTPD over the
entire concept of buckets and brigades.  Ryan and Greg were at odds over
the implications.  As svn was properly managed with commits/vetos/reverts,
the projects were at an impasse with no movement to the next generation
server.  So, all the committers were invited to a f2f powwow for Greg and
Ryan to duke it out and thoroughly explain their plan and justification.

We treated it as a non-vetoable situation.  Neither design was technically
invalid, it was a preference.  So they had their shootout, and (gasp) even
came to agreement on the appropriate solution (to the nods of dozens of
attendees).  More importantly, the other committers who were 'inflicted'
with the design had a chance to thoroughly understand what it was and why
it was done that way.

Back to Tomcat, it sounds like this is an argument of preference over
technical correctness.  Perhaps November in Atlanta or Hong Kong would
be a good time for you to sit down, fill in all the other interested
committers in the exact merits of your preferences, and reach consensus?

And maybe feathercast the debate highlights and decision :)

Bill

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