This certainly is heavy but very enlightening Sir.Sir,if I am not taxing what is the Wicco religion of witches? YM
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 8:14 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> wrote: > 1 Zoroastrianism, one of the world’s oldest monotheistic religions, was > founded by the prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra) in ancient Persia, likely > between 1500 and 1200 BCE. Its philosophy centers on dualism, the > importance of good deeds, and the worship of a single supreme deity, > Ahura Mazda, who represents all that is good. Here are some of the core > philosophical principles of Zoroastrianism: > > 2 1. Dualism of Good and Evil > > Zoroastrianism teaches a fundamental dualism between Ahura Mazda (the Wise > Lord, representing truth, light, and order) and Angra Mainyu (or Ahriman, > representing evil, chaos, and deception). Life is seen as a cosmic struggle > between these opposing forces, with human beings tasked to choose between > them. > > This dualism is not just cosmic but also moral. Zoroastrians believe that > each individual has the power to choose between asha (truth and order) and > druj (lies and disorder), reflecting the larger battle between good and > evil. > > 3 2. Asha: The Path of Truth and Order > > Asha is a central concept in Zoroastrianism, often translated as “truth” > or “righteousness.” It represents the divine order of the universe, as > well as moral order on a personal level. > > Living according to asha involves making choices that align with truth, > fairness, and positive actions, contributing to the cosmic fight against > druj (deceit and chaos). > > 4 3. Free Will and Moral Responsibility > > Zoroastrianism places significant emphasis on free will. Humans are > believed to have been given the power to choose between good and evil. > > Moral responsibility is a key tenet; individuals are encouraged to make > choices that benefit not only themselves but also society and the world as > a whole. This is encapsulated in the Zoroastrian motto: Humata, Hukhta, > Huvarshta (“Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”). > > *5 4. Ahura Mazda: Monotheism and Worship of the Wise Lord* > > Ahura Mazda is the singular, all-knowing, and all-good deity in > Zoroastrianism. Unlike other dualistic traditions, Zoroastrianism views > Ahura Mazda as supreme, and Angra Mainyu is not an equal rival but rather a > destructive force that stands in opposition to the truth. > > The worship of Ahura Mazda involves prayers, rituals, and living a life of > moral integrity, aligning with the virtues represented by Ahura Mazda. > > 6 5. Purity and the Sacredness of Elements > > Zoroastrianism holds nature and its elements (especially fire, water, > earth, and air) in high regard. Fire, symbolizing light and purity, is > particularly significant and is used in many religious ceremonies as a > representation of divine light and Ahura Mazda’s presence. > > This reverence for nature ties into the Zoroastrian commitment to > protecting and respecting the natural world, a reflection of the divine > order embodied by asha. > > 7 6. The Afterlife and the Final Judgment > > Zoroastrians believe in an afterlife where souls are judged based on their > actions in life. After death, souls cross the Chinvat Bridge, which becomes > either wide or narrow depending on the individual’s deeds. Those who lived > a righteous life, following asha, cross safely to a realm of light, while > those aligned with druj fall into darkness. > > Zoroastrian eschatology includes a final judgment day, when all souls will > be purified, Angra Mainyu will be defeated, and the world will be restored > to a state of perfect order and purity. > > 8 7. Frashokereti: The Concept of Renewal > > The ultimate goal in Zoroastrianism is the achievement of Frashokereti, or > the final renovation of the world, when evil will be vanquished, and the > universe will return to a state of eternal bliss. Humanity plays a part in > this process by actively choosing good over evil in their daily lives. > > 9 Zoroastrianism’s philosophy is not only about worship but also about > actively participating in the betterment of the world through ethical > living and respect for nature, making it one of the earliest examples of a > faith advocating for personal and cosmic responsibility. > > 10 Zoroastrianism, one of the oldest known monotheistic religions, is > currently practiced by an estimated 110,000 to 200,000 people worldwide. > The largest communities are found in India and Iran, with around > 50,000–60,000 Parsis residing in India and about 15,000–25,000 Zoroastrians > in Iran. There are also smaller communities in North America, particularly > in the United States and Canada, where approximately 21,000 Zoroastrians > live, mainly due to immigration in recent decades > > 11 In addition to India and Iran, smaller Zoroastrian communities can > be found in countries like the United Kingdom, Australia, and Pakistan, as > well as a recent resurgence in Iraq's Kurdistan region, where approximately > 15,000 individuals have embraced Zoroastrianism in response to identity and > cultural revival efforts > > 12 Despite its small size, the Zoroastrian community continues to > preserve its religious traditions and cultural heritage, with a focus on > interfaith dialogue and the promotion of their ancient ethical principles: > good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. > > 13 Migration: The Parsis are descendants of the Zoroastrians of Persia, > who fled the region to escape religious persecution after the Arab conquest > in the 7th century. Experts believe that the Parsis sailed across the > Arabian Sea to Gujarat, a state in western India, between 785 and 936. > > Name: The word "Parsi" is Gujarati for "Persian". > > 14 Religion: The Parsis are followers of Zoroastrianism, a religion > that originated in Persia about 3,500 years ago. Some of the teachings of > Zoroastrianism include the unity of body and soul, a holistic approach to > life. > > 15 BRITISH HISTORIANS THINK > > Zoroastrianism is one of the most ancient religions still practiced today. > Founded by a religious leader named Zoroaster, it preceded Judaism and > Christianity, has links with Hinduism and may date back to before 6000 > B.C. Zoroastrianism is believed to have developed among tribal-pastoral > people living in the mountain ranges of the Hindu Kush and Seristan, a > territory shared by Iran and Afghanistan. From northeast Iran it spread > through the Persian Achaemenid Empire beginning around the 6th century B.C. > > 16 Zoroastrianism is credited with helping to unify various tribes that > lived in Persia in the 6th century B.C. into the Persians. At its height > Zoroastrianism was the predominate religion of people in Persia and Asia > Minor and parts of Central Asia and the Middle East. After the conquest of > Alexander, the Great, Greek and Semitic elements were added to the > religion. In A.D. 226, it became the state religion of the Persian > Sassanian Empire, which spread as far as east as India and as far west as > Egypt. The most famous Zoroastrians are perhaps the Three Wise men who > visited the infant Jesus. > > 17 Zoroastrianism remained a major religion until the Arab invasion in > the 7th century when most Persians converted to Islam. Under Muslim rule, > Zoroastrians were persecuted and subjected to forced conversion. During > this period many emigrated to India, where they became known as the Parsis. > Some also moved to China but that community was suppressed in the 11th > century. > > 18 Zarathushtra or Zoroaster was the founder of Parse religion. Ahura > Mazda, also known as Oromasdes, Ohrmazd, Ormazd, Ormusd, Hoormazd, Harzoo, > Hormazd, Hormaz and Hurmz, is the creator deity and the supreme god in > Zoroastrianism 'Ahur Mazda' is the name of their God. Ahura Mazda (/əˌhʊərə > ˈmæzdə/; Avestan: 𐬀𐬵𐬎𐬭𐬀 𐬨𐬀𐬰𐬛𐬁, romanized: Ahura Mazdā; Persian: اهورا > مزدا, romanized: Ahurâ Mazdâ), also known as Horomazes, is the creator > deity and god of the sky in the ancient Iranian religion Zoroastrianism. He > is the first and most frequently invoked spirit in the Yasna. You thus > have Batliwala, Gheewala, Daruwala, Munshi, Mistry, Kerawala, Engineer, > Doctor. > > 19 INDIAN ANALYSIS: The samples analyzed by Shinde derived about > 50–98% of their genome from Iranian-related peoples and from 2–50% from > *native > South Asian hunter-gatherers.* The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. > had 45–82% of Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% of South Asian > hunter-gatherer origin. Armaiti > > She is also connected to the last two Holy Immortals, Haurvatat (water) > and Ameratat (plants). She is Mother Nature, the earthly cradle, a > guarantee of fertility. In some myths, Armaiti is the wife of Ahura Mazda > > 20 Jarasandha (Sanskrit: जरासन्ध, romanized: Jarāsandha) is a king > featured in the Hindu literature. He is the powerful monarch of Magadha, > and a minor antagonist in Mahabharata. He is the son of the king > Brihadratha, the founder of the Barhadratha dynasty of Magadha. According > to popular lore, the descendants of Brihadratha ruled Magadha for 2600 > years followed by Pradyota Dynasty and the Haryanka dynasty. He is > mentioned in the Mahabharata and the Vayu Purana Kansa, the ruler of > Mathura, acquired Jarasandha's attention. Impressed with his bravery, > Jarasandha made Kamsa his son-in-law by marrying off his two daughters. > This makes Jarasandha a relative of Krishna. Krishna killed Kamsa as > announced by a divine prophecy. Jarasandha got infuriated as his daughters > were widowed. Thereafter, Jarasandha vowed revenge against Krishna. > > *21 Antiquity of the Haoma Cult* (HOMA) The Haoma cult is the > proud heritage of the ancestors of the Zoroastrians, instituted *even > before* the advent of Zarathushtra, as seen from the Haoma Yasht (Yasna > IX, X, XI). 421 > > 422 The Four Haomas of the Avesta The Avesta refers to four types of > Haomas: 1) Haoma the Prophet who is spoken of in Yasna (IX, X, XI) along > with the Haoma plant discovered by Him. Further allusions are found in > Yasna (LVII.19.20) and Yashts X (Meher).89-90 and XVIII (Ashi) . > > 5.1 The Avesta refers to Haoma the Prophet as Haoma-Duraosha also called > Frashmi. *A predecessor of Zarathushtra and Vivanghat (father of > Jamshed), this pious man lived in Iran during the early Peshdadian dynasty*. > A very learned man (vaedhya-paiti) well versed in ancient religious > literature. He spent much time in divine meditation on the Hukariya peak of > the Alburz Mountain. He proclaimed the Mazdayasnian religion (Yasna > (IX.26) to the world and had His own religious compositions Gathas (Yasna > (X.18). > > 423 It was while being deeply absorbed in *meditation* in his > mountain-retreat, that He discovered and introduced to the world the plant > growing on the mountain heights, which He found to be nutritious, > health-giving and invigorating. So, He gave His own name to the plant and > according to Yasht XI, was the first to institute a ritualistic form of > producing the juice in the mortar (havanim) designed to make it doubly > efficacious by absorbing the mind of the people in healing and religious > thoughts. A plant in itself, health-giving and vigorous when partaken of > under a particular inspiration of divine thoughts, was likely to be > beneficial to the mind as well as the body. 2 "The wise 2) The Haoma plant > spoken of in Yasna IX, X, XI, refers to the plant as Haoma-Zairi (Yasna > IX.17.30-32). (KR: SAME AS SOMA (HOAMA PLANT} > > 424 The Avesta alludes to Haoma as Zairi-ta- 'yellowish, yellowish', zart > which also means light pale, somewhat whitish-yellow. In the Haoma Yasht > (II.3) Haoma is said to grow on mountains especially on the Alburz range > (II.10) bareshnush paiti gairinam. On the Gokarn (refer technical terms) > Peer P.F. writes... Again we find in the Pahlavi book 'Bundahishn' that Ahura > Mazda has created a plant in the midst of the sea Vourukasha, namely > Gaokerena, also as the white Haoma of which whoever drinks the juice, > will be immortal. 3 The Haoma plant which was made to grow on the mountain > Alburz was taken by birds in all the directions (Haoma YashtII.10). > > 22 The book {ZARATHUSHTRA BY BURJOR} speaks about Prophet Zarathustra > also spelled sometimes Zarathushtra as in above book, also known as > Zoroaster, who is considered as the first Prophet on Earth by Parsi people > and who is the messenger of a powerful Avestan God, *Ahura Mazda. One may > recall that Vedic deity Varuṇa and Iranian God Ahura Mazda have much in > common.* This similarity has been studied in detail by Indian as well as > Western scholars and many pages have been dedicated to this subject. Those > were a prayer, a holy fire and a Cypress tree. The prayer was capable of > revealing the wisdom and the universal secrets of the Ahura Mazda, the God, > the holy fire was the flame of truth and the Cypress tree was a symbol of > Eternity. During the subsequent period of many years, Zarathustra > received knowledge and wisdom from Ahura Mazda and also from Amesha > Spentas and Yazada. The Amesha Spentas, six in numbers also gave their > blessings to Zarathustra. > > *23 Varuna and Ahura Mazda and Amesha Spentas* > > While talking about Varuna, it is clearly noted and as opined by many > scholars that one finds a lot of similarities between Vedic deity Varuna > and Avestan God Ahura Mazda. *Varuna has an epithet 'Asur' in Rigveda.* > and meaning of Asur in Vedas is 'Powerful'. . *The word 'Ahur' is equal > to the word 'Asur' and this is a striking similarity between these two.* > One finds the similarity between Varuna and the Greek God Zeus. The Zeus > basically means sky, which subsequently comes to be known as the ruler of > Gods. God Varuna dates to the Indo-Iranian period. Lord ‘Ahuramzad’ > (Ahura Mazda) described in the Parsee religious scripture ‘Avesta’ is > similar to Lord Varuna. The word Ahur is equal to word Asur here. The > meaning of Asur in Vedas is powerful. In one of the Suktas of > *Atharvaveda,* Lord Varuna is described as omnipresent, ever witnessing > and ruler of the entire universe. In the same Sukta, it is appealed that > may Lord Varuna destroy my enemies through his ‘Pasha’ which is his weapon. > He has been mentioned in Bhagavata Purana as well. It is stated that Lord > Varuna killed Demon Heti. Even in the post-Vedic period, Lord Varuna is > still found as an important God. Outside India, in Angkor Vat temple > Varuna is found sitting on a Goose at panel number fifteen.Lord Jhulelal > has been described as Lord of water and Sea and is also considered as an > ‘Avtar’ of Lord Varuna from Vedas. It can be said that a historical figure > has been converted into Deity /God. > > 24 According to Vedic scholar Macdonell, there is a distinct > similarity between Iranian God Ahura Mazda and Vedic deity Varuna.In his > book Vedic Mythology, Macdonell writes about ‘Avesta’ and ‘Vedic > Mythology’. He says that "It is rather with the striking correspondences in > mythology that we are concerned in both religions the term 'Asura' is equal > to 'Ahura' is applied to the highest Gods, who in both are conceived as > mighty wings drawn through the air in their war chariots by swift steeds, > and in character benevolent, almost entirely free from guile and immoral > traits". He has further clearly mentioned: "The parallel in character, > though not in name of the God Varuna is Ahura Mazda, the wise spirit. > (Macdonell 1979: 7,8).Another Scholar Jatindra Mohan Chatterjee, in his > book *‘Atharvan Zarathushtra’*, has seconded the above statement and has > in fact gone further in strengthening this viewpoint by stating that out of > one hundred names of Ahura Mazda, the name Varuna stands at number > forty-four. (1971: 51). This statement supports the view that Varuna and > Ahura Mazda share a close relationship. "In Avesta, the Sun has swift > horses like Surya and is called the eye of Ahura Mazda." (32-33). This > description is similar to the description of Varuna found in Vedas that > Varuna's eyes are Sun or he sees through thousand eyes or rays of Sun. > Sanskrit > meaning of Mazda which can be stated as Madha (Medha) which means wisdom. > The meaning of Ahura or Ahur is the same as that of Asur in Sanskrit and it > is full of life. This adjective has been also used for Mithra and Apanpat > (Yāsna: 2.5: 105; 62.12). However, the epithet Ahur is especially > applicable to Ahur Mazda. The Ahur Mazda in Sanskrit is Asur Mahat as per > scholar > Rajwade. A God by name Ahirman is opposite of him. As such their > positions are different i.e. they live in different places. Ahura Mazda > lives ever in light, whereas Ahirman lives in darkness. > > 25 KR: Thus 6000 BCE throws light on zend avesta; Jara chanda of > Mahabhartaham and Zara Thushtra are more significant; abnd DNA sample takes > them only around within the bharatha varsham. Though to day they do not > acclaim themselves as HINDU, Rigvedam and Atharva vedam fixed their > sanskrit roots. And WHY DID THEY RETURN BACK TO Gujarat coast in AD when > muslims harassed them? Native roots perhaps. Parsi is not out of persia; > but Paras (Parasurama) is the root; who from Magdha fought on the sides of > Pandavas and against and after the mahabharatha war displaced to west to > wards Iran and Greece (vide Epococke book THE GREECE). Yaska was the > founder of the niruktam and yaska yasna sounda similar. Varuna and Mitra > were wwell known names in Today’s UAE. Those who went out chose to return > back to their nativity pritected by tha Gujarat King. PARAS became parsi > and persia. > > 1) Iranian / Persian people and Vedic Aryans belong to the same culture. > > 2) Ahura Mazda is the all-powerful God in Avesta. Varuna is a very > powerful God in Vedas > > 3) Ahura Mazda has a connection or similarity in pronunciation with Asura, > which means powerful. Mazda is Mahat-Dha or Medha which is an adjective > here. > > 4) Along with Ahura Mazda, many Vedic deities are found in Avestan either > with the same name or a slight variation in name and pronunciation. There > are Indra, Ashwina, Mitra (Mithra in Avesta), Vivaswan, Surya, Aryama, > Soma, Yama etc. > > 5) Sufficient similarity is seen in the form of deities in Vedas and > Avesta. > > 6) There is a lot of similarity between the language of Gatha (a part of > Avesta) and Vedas. > > 7) Many words are identical. > > 8) Vowels and Consonants have no difference in both. > > 9) The similarity is found in grammar as well. > > a) There are three forms: Single, double, plural. > > b) There are three genders: Masculine, Feminine and Neuter. > > c) There are eight Vibhaktis or Karak > > These are definitely similar to each other, and whatever the difference > would be, is negligible. Once again, the connection between Ahura Mazda and > Vedic deity Varuna is established without any doubt. The Ahura Mazda is a > water God and so is Varuna and so is Lord Jhulelal as well showing a > distinct connection with each other. > > Thus, wrt Thus wrt Ymji question, Zorastrians followed DUALITY AS Madhwas, > Muslims, Buddism, Jainism, chritianity eyc followed. Ahura Mazda was varuna > but Varuna had the duality hence one more above. Nowhere the brahmam has > any shape at all. Varuna ahura mazda @ Mehda (intelligence) may have. > > K RAJARAM IRS 131024 > > On Sun, 13 Oct 2024 at 17:13, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Rajaram Sir, >> At the slightest provocation you enlighten wonderfully.Please let us know >> the Philosophy of Jarasutha,I think of the Zoroastrian Religion,the >> original religion of Persia now Iran. >> YM >> >> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 4:16 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> In Islam, Allah (God) is described as formless, transcendent, and beyond >>> human comprehension. The core Islamic belief in Tawhid (the oneness of >>> God) emphasizes that Allah is unique and incomparable, without physical >>> form or likeness. This is reflected in the Qur'an, where Allah is said >>> to be unlike anything in creation: "There is nothing like unto Him, and He >>> is the Hearing, the Seeing" (Qur'an 42:11). Because Allah is considered >>> beyond any physical attributes, He is not represented in images or statues >>> in Islamic tradition. >>> >>> >>> >>> Islamic theology holds that human language and concepts cannot fully >>> capture Allah's essence. While Allah has 99 Names, each describing an >>> attribute (like Ar-Rahman—The Merciful, or Al-Alim—The All-Knowing), these >>> do not imply physical characteristics but rather reflect His qualities. >>> This conceptualization supports the idea that Allah is formless and >>> beyond any physical representation. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Islam itself, the religion focuses on guidance through the Qur'an >>> and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, rather than a physical form >>> or manifestation. The central goal of Islam is to live a life aligned with >>> divine guidance, following practices like prayer, fasting, and charity. In >>> this sense, Islam is indeed formless, as it emphasizes a spiritual journey >>> rather than attachment to physical forms or objects. >>> >>> >>> >>> This abstraction of Allah and the focus on spiritual practices set Islam >>> apart, as it avoids anthropomorphic depictions and instead calls for >>> worship of an unseen, formless God. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mosques and Muslim homes often incorporate certain artistic forms and >>> architectural elements that reflect Islamic aesthetics, principles, and >>> cultural influences, while still adhering to the Islamic prohibition >>> against depicting Allah, the Prophet Muhammad, or other human or animal >>> forms in worship spaces. Here are some of the key ways this is achieved: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Calligraphy >>> >>> In Mosques: Calligraphy is one of the most prominent forms of artistic >>> expression in mosques worldwide. Verses from the Qur'an, often written in >>> Arabic, decorate walls, domes, and mihrabs (the niche indicating the >>> direction of Mecca). Different styles, like Kufic or Thuluth, are used, >>> creating intricate and beautiful designs that reflect the divine words >>> without depicting physical forms. >>> >>> In Muslim Homes: Many Muslim homes feature calligraphy of Qur'anic >>> verses, the names of Allah, or phrases like "Bismillah" (In the name of >>> Allah). These pieces are hung on walls to remind believers of their faith >>> and to inspire a sense of spirituality in the home. >>> >>> 2. Geometric Patterns >>> >>> In Mosques: Geometric designs are a central feature of mosque >>> decoration. These intricate patterns reflect the concept of infinity and >>> the unity of Allah by showing complex yet harmonious designs. Geometric >>> patterns can be seen on tiles, floors, and walls, especially in mosques >>> throughout the Middle East, North Africa, and Central Asia. >>> >>> In Muslim Homes: Geometric designs are also popular in home decor, >>> appearing in textiles, rugs, wall art, and even on household items. These >>> patterns symbolize order and unity, representing divine creation in an >>> abstract form that respects Islamic principles. >>> >>> 3. Arabesque Motifs >>> >>> In Mosques: Arabesque designs, which are stylized representations of >>> leaves, vines, and flowers, are used to create endless, flowing patterns. >>> This style is symbolic of the beauty of nature and is meant to represent >>> paradise as mentioned in Islamic teachings. The arabesque often decorates >>> walls, domes, and even the exteriors of mosques. >>> >>> In Muslim Homes: Arabesque designs are common in carpets, cushions, >>> tiles, and other home furnishings. By incorporating these patterns, homes >>> reflect a sense of nature and beauty that is harmonious with the spiritual >>> ideals of Islam. >>> >>> 4. Architecture and Structure >>> >>> Domes and Minarets in Mosques: Domes are a significant architectural >>> element in mosques, symbolizing the vastness of the universe and the >>> heavens. Minarets are tall structures used for the call to prayer, visually >>> marking the mosque as a spiritual focal point in the community. Many >>> mosques worldwide, such as the Blue Mosque in Istanbul and the Great Mosque >>> of Córdoba, are renowned for their distinctive architectural forms. >>> >>> Islamic-Inspired Architecture in Homes: Some Muslim homes incorporate >>> architectural elements inspired by mosques, such as arches, decorative >>> domes, or courtyards with fountains. These designs bring a sense of >>> tranquility and reverence, mirroring the spiritual atmosphere found in >>> mosques. >>> >>> 5. Lighting and Chandeliers >>> >>> In Mosques: Large chandeliers are often used in mosques, particularly >>> under domes, to symbolize divine light. These chandeliers may be >>> intricately designed and adorned with crystals or other materials that >>> reflect light, creating a beautiful and contemplative atmosphere. >>> >>> In Muslim Homes: Chandeliers or lamps with arabesque and geometric >>> designs are common in Muslim homes. They are used not only for illumination >>> but also to create a warm, serene ambiance that reflects Islamic aesthetic >>> values. >>> >>> These artistic forms and architectural elements are central to both >>> mosques and many Muslim homes. They allow for the expression of Islamic >>> identity and spirituality through abstract, non-figurative means, honoring >>> the divine without contradicting the principles of formlessness in the >>> portrayal of Allah and other sacred figures. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am not discussing abrahamic as it is not quoted here. I Presume >>> hinduism as a mark against non idol worship- as allah is not shown under >>> idol worship. OK. The abrahamic and the islamic charge are against hinduism >>> with multiple god worship. But all including the abrahamic and islamic, >>> forgot -that Hinduism has only one GOD Brahmam, from which manifestations >>> of Gods, of many formations were rendered as worshipping, which are pure >>> nature and utility. All of them are respected by people; even their >>> ancestors or ancestors of a village, were worshipped as GODs. These >>> included Siva, Vishnu and Brahma, and women gods, Plants, animals, and many >>> living and dead sculptures, Paintings and photos were worshipped. Have you, >>> any one, seen a Brahmam worshipped anywhere? Christ is a statue seen by >>> all. Have you seen the “father” as addressed by Christ, anywhere in any >>> church or home? So also, neither Allah nor Father of Christ nor Brahmam are >>> unseen. Are there differences? Islamists have their words as wall hangers >>> and worshipful placards; Christians do have Christ Mary etc apart from the >>> placards; Hindus have many forms as worshipful objectives. The Models of >>> the worshipping places also have characteristics. Hence, charging hinduism >>> as multi-faceted, worship and idol worship are avoided in islam and 3 idos >>> are enough in christianism are all pure figments of imaginations trying to >>> market their religions. >>> >>> K Rajaram IRS 13 10 24 >>> >>> On Sun, 13 Oct 2024 at 11:33, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> In Islam Allah also is formless and timeless. >>>> YM Sarma >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 11:26 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Spirituality is a broad concept that involves a sense of connection to >>>>> something greater than oneself, and a search for meaning in life. It can >>>>> be >>>>> expressed in many ways, including: >>>>> >>>>> Meditation Samples >>>>> >>>>> Prayer >>>>> (iskcon) >>>>> >>>>> Mindfulness >>>>> (buddhism) >>>>> >>>>> Yoga (divine swamijis >>>>> as a brand) >>>>> >>>>> Dance (natyanjali including >>>>> Madonnas) ) >>>>> >>>>> Creating art or music (bhajans made easy to sing in all >>>>> tunes) >>>>> >>>>> Being in nature ( a clan who spend time in calm >>>>> surroundings with or without drugs) >>>>> >>>>> Breathwork (Pranayama parlours) >>>>> >>>>> Spirituality is different from religion, which is a set of organized >>>>> beliefs and practices shared by a community or group. Spirituality is more >>>>> of an individual practice, and you can be spiritual without being >>>>> religious. >>>>> >>>>> Spirituality can provide a sense of purpose and meaning, and can >>>>> connect people to a force greater than themselves, as well as to their >>>>> fellow human beings. It can also provide a strong foundation on which to >>>>> build better mental health. >>>>> >>>>> The word "spirituality" was first known to be used in the 15th >>>>> century. >>>>> >>>>> What Is Spirituality? | Taking Charge of Your Wellbeing >>>>> >>>>> Spirituality involves the recognition of a feeling or sense or belief >>>>> that there is something greater than myself, something more ... >>>>> >>>>> Spirituality involves the recognition of a feeling or sense or belief >>>>> that there is something greater than myself, something more to being human >>>>> than sensory experience, and that the greater whole of which we are part >>>>> is >>>>> cosmic or divine in nature. >>>>> >>>>> Latest class is self defeating groups who neither deny nor follow the >>>>> GOD of any religion or sanatana dharma, but get spirited to stay as they >>>>> are normally and address themselves as SPIRITUAL BUT NOT RELIGIOUS SBNR. >>>>> Spirituality is wrongly deciphered as AANMEEGAM ABOUT THE ANMA, ATMA @ >>>>> SOUL >>>>> IN TAMIL. But in short they are not nastikas as they accept some power >>>>> beyond all of them. When they realise that what they were adopting as a >>>>> genuine principle, did not take them to righteous path or realise they are >>>>> at a dead end, then they alter their path. Thys spiritualism as a gateway >>>>> of escape to cherish their inner madness of life as long as they have the >>>>> strength is also in a way better. Such of those only follow certain godmen >>>>> holding them in a high spirit. In another way of thinking, poor people and >>>>> the middle class follow some GODs; but moneyed gentlemen and ladies become >>>>> virtually and in reality, spirited. The top class join both as the time >>>>> prompts them. In this respect I appreciate Genuine atheists who question >>>>> the spirit and raise their knowledge and change overnight having >>>>> understood >>>>> their fallacies. As science keeps on changing their theory unlike nature, >>>>> every day, the spirited also keeps changing their ideas. This science and >>>>> spiritualism may go hand in hand. K Rajaram IRS >>>>> 131024 >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 at 20:03, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Mar**Spiritualism and Science* >>>>>> >>>>>> *The path of Spiritualism is to live without forms in the formless. >>>>>> According to Einstein, everything in fact moves at the speed of light. >>>>>> But >>>>>> the other three dimensions---length, breadth and height, slow it. But >>>>>> when >>>>>> a thing frees itself from those dimensions and when only the time >>>>>> dimension >>>>>> remains the body will move at the speed of light. Are we all moving into >>>>>> the time dimension only? When a body achieves the speed of light its >>>>>> volume >>>>>> becomes infinite. Are we proceeding to infinity?* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Science is based on the effort to create definite forms, >>>>>> mathematical reductions, mechanical constructs, it needs definitions and >>>>>> scopes within the limits of the definition. Do we leave all sciences when >>>>>> we leave for good?* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Can formlessness function as a paradigm, a connectable base for >>>>>> understanding? Is that paradigm simply belief? While living we have >>>>>> basically two fundamental paradigms—the inside and the outside. Many ask >>>>>> the question after the infinity or at the end of the infinity, what? But >>>>>> the Universe has no outside, something which we simply cannot >>>>>> conceptualize >>>>>> while living. You cannot add, subtract, multiply or divide infinity. When >>>>>> we live in the present, we experience the present and we cannot analyse >>>>>> while living the present. When you start analysing, you stop living in >>>>>> the >>>>>> present. Are we living the infinity, when we live in the present only? >>>>>> Can >>>>>> science and Spiritualism co-exist? Can there be mechanized spiritualism, >>>>>> which is what the Management Gurus are trying to achieve?* >>>>>> >>>>>> *More than 99 per cent of reality is in the invisible spectrum, the >>>>>> abstract and formless arena, where material attributes based on the forms >>>>>> conjured in the visible spectrum is meaningless. How to identify with >>>>>> physical forms to the formless? Our understanding is caught with the idea >>>>>> of the form, the 3D appearance.* >>>>>> >>>>>> *YM Sarma* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Chat GPT* >>>>>> >>>>>> *YM Sarma’s reflections on **spiritualism and science** touch on >>>>>> several profound and thought-provoking topics, which can be unpacked in >>>>>> the >>>>>> following ways:* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *### 1. **The Intersection of Spiritualism and Science**:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * - **Spiritualism** traditionally involves moving beyond the >>>>>> physical and material world into the realm of the formless and >>>>>> transcendent. It emphasizes intuition, inner experiences, and the search >>>>>> for meaning beyond the visible spectrum.* >>>>>> >>>>>> * - **Science**, on the other hand, focuses on form, structure, >>>>>> measurable phenomena, and observable laws. It creates constructs and >>>>>> definitions to understand the material world.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * The question Sarma raises—**can spiritualism and science >>>>>> co-exist?**—is a longstanding philosophical inquiry. The two approaches >>>>>> seem fundamentally different, but there are points of convergence. For >>>>>> instance, **quantum physics** and concepts in modern cosmology often push >>>>>> the boundaries of what is measurable, touching on questions of existence, >>>>>> the nature of reality, and consciousness.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * Physicist **David Bohm**, for example, proposed the idea of an >>>>>> *implicate order*—a hidden, deeper level of reality that connects >>>>>> everything, which resonates with spiritual ideas about >>>>>> interconnectedness. >>>>>> Similarly, **Einstein’s theories** challenge the rigid Newtonian model, >>>>>> hinting at the paradoxes that arise at the speed of light (as Sarma >>>>>> mentions), which can push one’s understanding of time and space into a >>>>>> more >>>>>> spiritual or mystical domain.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *### 2. **The Concept of Infinity and Time**:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * Sarma refers to **Einstein’s theory** about the speed of light >>>>>> and how mass becomes infinite as it approaches this speed. This idea >>>>>> leads >>>>>> to contemplation on **infinity**—a concept difficult to grasp within the >>>>>> confines of human logic and the physical dimensions of length, breadth, >>>>>> and >>>>>> height.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * Sarma is suggesting that when we free ourselves from these >>>>>> dimensions, as some spiritual practices aim to do, we enter the domain of >>>>>> **timelessness or infinity**. This can parallel the spiritual experience >>>>>> of >>>>>> "being present" or living in the **eternal now**, where there is no past >>>>>> or >>>>>> future, only the present moment.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * In **spiritual traditions** such as **Advaita Vedanta**, the >>>>>> concept of *Brahman* (the ultimate reality) is often described as >>>>>> formless, >>>>>> timeless, and infinite—similar to the abstract, infinite universe Sarma >>>>>> describes. The **Tao** in **Taoism** is another example of a formless, >>>>>> indefinable reality that is beyond human conception.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *### 3. **Form and Formlessness**:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * Sarma asks, "Can formlessness function as a paradigm?" This >>>>>> brings up the issue of how humans, with minds conditioned to perceive and >>>>>> define forms, relate to the abstract, unseen, and formless.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * **Quantum physics**, particularly the concept of the >>>>>> **wave-particle duality**, suggests that matter doesn't behave like fixed >>>>>> forms at the quantum level. Subatomic particles, like electrons, can >>>>>> exist >>>>>> in a state of **superposition** (existing in multiple states at once) >>>>>> until >>>>>> they are observed. This insight echoes spiritual traditions that talk >>>>>> about >>>>>> the illusion of form and the deeper formless reality.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *### 4. **The Role of Consciousness**:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * Sarma’s reflections lead to the idea that **consciousness** plays >>>>>> a crucial role in bridging the material and spiritual. Quantum mechanics >>>>>> has introduced debates about whether consciousness is an essential >>>>>> element >>>>>> of reality, as some interpretations (like the **Copenhagen >>>>>> interpretation**) suggest that observation itself affects the outcome of >>>>>> quantum phenomena. This hints at consciousness being deeply >>>>>> interconnected >>>>>> with the nature of reality—a view that aligns with many spiritual >>>>>> traditions.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * The idea that **99% of reality** exists in the **invisible >>>>>> spectrum** parallels the spiritual belief that most of existence lies >>>>>> beyond the physical plane. Sarma’s call to explore the "abstract and >>>>>> formless arena" aligns with the view that our material understanding is >>>>>> limited and that deeper truths may exist beyond measurable forms.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *### Conclusion:* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sarma seems to suggest that **science and spiritualism**, despite >>>>>> their apparent differences, are not mutually exclusive. Instead, they may >>>>>> represent two ways of approaching the same ultimate questions: What is >>>>>> reality? What is time? What is infinity? Science provides tools to >>>>>> explore >>>>>> the material world, while spiritualism offers a way to connect with the >>>>>> immaterial and formless aspects of existence. Both paths, in their most >>>>>> advanced stages, may be seen as complementary pursuits of truth.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *In essence, Sarma raises the possibility of a deeper harmony between >>>>>> these domains—where **science** explores the **form** and >>>>>> **spiritualism** >>>>>> the **formless**, but both lead us toward a more comprehensive >>>>>> understanding of existence.* >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CACDCHCLbP_%2BMEm8WMeP0g_CvOG9Hyau97F1U2gyUiXfcLnxwfA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CACDCHCLbP_%2BMEm8WMeP0g_CvOG9Hyau97F1U2gyUiXfcLnxwfA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Mar* >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> *Mar* >> > -- *Mar* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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