Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-22 Thread Иван Комиссаров
I want to ask a question. What's about c++ backend to QML? As i can see here, http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16465/ people want it. No just because they are c++ fanboys (we all love c++, i think) and not because it is faster (it certainly is), but because some things can be implemented

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-21 Thread d3fault
DEFIB. all of these are replies to comments in http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2012/04/18/qt-5-c-and-qt-widgets/ which Marius Storm-Olsen decided to close Donald http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2012/04/18/qt-5-c-and-qt-widgets/#comment-72564 + others >We are putting serious effort into QML and hope to disrupt

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Laszlo Papp
> I thought the KDE dudes were already testing it against Qt 5. Anyone > on this list in a position to comment as to the current state of > things? Well, we have been using Harmattan, Plasma Components and so forth for experiments. QML and the component theory are way immature for using this KDE w

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Donald Carr
Hey, On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Иван Комиссаров wrote: > And what about KDE? It is all based on QWidgets. And it took them many years > to make stable release for KDE 4 (KDE 4.4 was the first release i could > use). You want them to reimplement whole KDE using QML? I thought the KDE dudes

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Donald Carr
> Just look at what can be done on the Raspberry Pi with scene graph + > wayland, and tell me you can do the same with QPainter + X11 through the > Pi's main CPU! >    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItv4HX5r3k - Qt 5 and Wayland on the > Raspberry Pi This succinctly summarizes our sentiments; We

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Donald Carr
> QML may be revolutionary, but it does not target the right camp. It > targets the designer/amateur-coder audience. "Awww, poor baby. C++ too > hard for you? Here's some meta-descriptive-GUI language where you can > use simple javascript statements/code to implement all your back-end > (and subseq

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Donald Carr
L. > >> >>                         Atlant >> >> -Original Message- >> From: development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org >> [mailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Kümmel &

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Donald Carr
display device (framebuffer). > >                         Atlant > > -Original Message- > From: Girish Ramakrishnan [mailto:gir...@forwardbias.in] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 14:45 > To: Atlant Schmidt > Cc: Peter Kümmel; development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] The place of Q

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Ariel Molina
Hello, I've been following this thread since it started. My impression is that Qt people believes we (users-devs) want to force you into further developing a C++ toolkit (which might or might not be outdated). But I understand that you will do work on what are *ordered* to work on, by your boss. I

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Uwe Rathmann
On 05/18/2012 09:07 AM, marius.storm-ol...@nokia.com wrote: > Often it's hard to beat the performance of the main CPU(s for most people > these days) filling in a polygon directly, rather than handing it off to a > GPU. Guess this is the reason behind the decision why in Qt 4.8 raster has become

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Atlant Schmidt
ailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Kate Alhola Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 04:22 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Peter, et al.: > >> We don&#x

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Иван Комиссаров
You need users who will use Qt to survive. And those are desktop developers. Show me lot of not "hello world" apps writte using qml. Where are they? On symbian? Maybe in MeeGo? I don't see any on the desktop. But i see Guitar Pro right now which is based on QWidgets. About O-notations. Article

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread Kate Alhola
(in this >  case) clearly isn't likely to. > >                       Atlant > > -Original Message- > From: development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org > [mailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Küm

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread d3fault
On 5/15/12, BRM wrote: > It would probably be good for a statistically significant poll to be > officially done. > I'd expect that it would probably have a 50/50 split, or may be a 60/40 > split in favor of QML > as I do expect there is still a lot of momentum behind the QWidgets and > QGraphics*

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-18 Thread marius.storm-olsen
On 5/18/12 8:22 AM, "ext Uwe Rathmann" wrote: >I would be careful with terms like "outdated". In the end the desktop is >the concept of the 90s ( widget are much older ) and the current >desktops are the part that doesn't work on smartphones alike devices. >But are keyboard and mouse outdated - on

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread marius.storm-olsen
Sounds like marketing? It might be a 'constant' in the grand scheme of big-O notations. However, if the result is that you can only get 24 fps on low-end HW with large power footprint vs. 60 fps with HW acceleration, lower power footprint and leaving the main CPU to do more important tasks, what w

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Uwe Rathmann
On 05/18/2012 07:36 AM, Иван Комиссаров wrote: > Btw, you're saying that painter technology is outdated? Well it is also the API for rendering PDF ( and other paint devices ) documents. Having common code for screen and PDF rendering is absolutely not outdated - and is possible using QSGPaintedI

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Иван Комиссаров
Btw, you're saying that painter technology is outdated? What speedup provides QML scene graph? According to this http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/31/qml-scene-graph-in-master/ article, speedup is 2.5 times. As for me, it's just a constant optimization, it is not reduces complexity very much, as

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Thiago Macieira
On quinta-feira, 17 de maio de 2012 14.46.16, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Girish: > > Substantial recoding on the application side? What features > > of QWS are you relying on that is missing in QPA? > > The ability for multiple processes to share a single > display device (framebuffer). Have you

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Atlant Schmidt
ishnan [mailto:gir...@forwardbias.in] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 14:45 To: Atlant Schmidt Cc: Peter Kümmel; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML Hi Atlant, On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Peter: > >> Then Qt Widgets is perfe

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Atlant, On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Peter: > >> Then Qt Widgets is perfect for you: mature, stable API. You >> only would have a problem when you have to implement features >> which are much better supported by QML. > >  Did I mention that we're also coded to depe

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Atlant Schmidt
esearch@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Peter Kümmel Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:24 Cc: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML On 17.05.2012 12:35, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Peter, et al.: > >> We don't wanna use obsolete stuff with a "architec

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Peter Kümmel
Atlant > > -Original Message- > From: development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org > [mailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Kümmel > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 02:12 > To: development@qt-proje

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Peter Kümmel
On 17.05.2012 14:42, Иван Комиссаров wrote: > Well, i do care about what happen to QWidgets. Maybe i'm old-fashioned (i'm > 23 years old, heh), but i do have lot of code based on QWidgets. And that > code works. So, you suggest me to thow away all code i've made, because > QWidgets have bad desi

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Quim Gil
This has been said before, but for the sake of clarity: On 05/17/2012 05:42 AM, ext Иван Комиссаров wrote: > i do have lot of code > based on QWidgets. And that code works. So, you suggest me to thow > away all code i've made, because QWidgets have bad design? No, we suggest you to run that code

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Иван Комиссаров
Well, i do care about what happen to QWidgets. Maybe i'm old-fashioned (i'm 23 years old, heh), but i do have lot of code based on QWidgets. And that code works. So, you suggest me to thow away all code i've made, because QWidgets have bad design? And whst i got? Unfinished yet QML? Thanks, i'd

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-17 Thread Atlant Schmidt
ct.org [mailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch....@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Peter Kümmel Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 02:12 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML On 16.05.2012 20:31, qtnext wrote: > I am using Qt since 12 years or more...

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Peter Kümmel
On 16.05.2012 20:31, qtnext wrote: > I am using Qt since 12 years or more... I have done a lot of work using > qwidget, qgraphiscview, > I have done some small apps with qml to display media : it works very well > ... just the animation are a a litlle bit > jerky and work not well on very sm

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread qtnext
I am using Qt since 12 years or more... I have done a lot of work using qwidget, qgraphiscview, I have done some small apps with qml to display media : it works very well ... just the animation are a a litlle bit jerky and work not well on very small computer ... But now that Qt5 is here :

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Thiago Macieira
On quarta-feira, 16 de maio de 2012 13.24.25, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > The FOSS developers HOPE that their interests are congruent > with those of the mere customers and at least in QT's world, > there's some evidence that this is true for some customers > but there is also mounting evidence

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Atlant Schmidt
lopment@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Atlant Schmidt wrote: > Qt "the product" may be developed by a meritocracy of devel- > opers but it damned-well better respond in a more-or-less > democratic way to the needs/de

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Thiago Macieira
On quarta-feira, 16 de maio de 2012 09.51.52, BRM wrote: > I agree that QML is certainly in that camp; though the ignoring of QWidget > is the issue. No one is ignoring QWidget. We know it's there and what it's being used for. No one here is under the illusion that QWidget isn't important. It is.

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread BRM
> From: Thiago Macieira >On quarta-feira, 16 de maio de 2012 16.56.05, Robin Burchell wrote: >> That isn't how reality works. You cannot tell me (as a volunteer) what >> I ought to be spending my time on any more than I can tell you what >> color to paint your livingroom. My interests dictate wha

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Thiago Macieira
On quarta-feira, 16 de maio de 2012 16.56.05, Robin Burchell wrote: > That isn't how reality works. You cannot tell me (as a volunteer) what > I ought to be spending my time on any more than I can tell you what > color to paint your livingroom. My interests dictate what I invest my > time into, not

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Robin Burchell
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Atlant Schmidt wrote: >  Qt "the product" may be developed by a meritocracy of devel- >  opers but it damned-well better respond in a more-or-less >  democratic way to the needs/demands of the consumers of the >  product. If it doesn't, those consumers will move on

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Atlant Schmidt
Samuel: > It's worth noting that the Qt project is designed to > be a meritocracy, not a democracy. What this ignores, though, is the fact that the *CONSUMERS* of the Qt product are not necessarily at all congruent with the *DEVELOPERS* of the Qt product. (While there's some cross-over, I

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Giuseppe D'Angelo
> It's worth noting that the Qt project is designed to be a meritocracy, > not a democracy. Most important: a do-cracy. Changes don't happen if everybody talks and nobody writes the code. -- Giuseppe D'Angelo ___ Development mailing list Development@qt

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Giuseppe D'Angelo
On 16 May 2012 01:31, André Pönitz wrote: > I trust the audience would be delighted if you gave some insight > into the calculation. For the argument's sake, let's say that the poll shows statistical relevance. That is, there's a huge interest in having a complete set of C++ bindings for QML (or

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread Samuel Rødal
On 05/16/2012 11:14 AM, ext André Somers wrote: > Op 16-5-2012 1:31, André Pönitz schreef: >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 07:13:19AM -0700, BRM wrote: From: Donald Carr [...] This is out of a sample set of 110 people, which is infinitesimally small in comparison to the Qt user base. It

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-16 Thread André Somers
Op 16-5-2012 1:31, André Pönitz schreef: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 07:13:19AM -0700, BRM wrote: >>> From: Donald Carr >>> [...] This is out of a sample set of 110 people, which is >>> infinitesimally small in comparison to the Qt user base. It would >>> be a stretch to call this a statistically si

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-15 Thread André Pönitz
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 07:13:19AM -0700, BRM wrote: > > From: Donald Carr > > [...] This is out of a sample set of 110 people, which is > > infinitesimally small in comparison to the Qt user base. It would > > be a stretch to call this a statistically significant poll, [...] > > [...] But the s

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-15 Thread Uwe Rathmann
On 05/15/2012 02:13 AM, Donald Carr wrote: > QML will be useful for anyone who wants to have designers > get proactively involved in the UI/system software development of user > interfaces for any number of embedded/dedicated devices. Once the > qmlscene application can run, you can start working d

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-15 Thread BRM
> From: Donald Carr > Please provide a link to your poll when citing it so that people can > look at empirical data: > > http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16693/ > > must be the wrong poll, since that shows QML components being a > primary point of concern. This is out of a sample set of

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-14 Thread Donald Carr
Please provide a link to your poll when citing it so that people can look at empirical data: http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16693/ must be the wrong poll, since that shows QML components being a primary point of concern. This is out of a sample set of 110 people, which is infinitesimally

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-14 Thread d3fault
On 5/14/12, Turunen Tuukka wrote: > Just very short comment to this part - Digia, Qt Commercial does also > quite significant R&D. Whereas we do have consulting, and support, we do > also our share of development. For example we are working in making sure > that Qt runs nicely on those platforms t

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-14 Thread Atlant Schmidt
Atlant -Original Message- From: development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org [mailto:development-bounces+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of d3fault Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 19:29 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [De

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-14 Thread Jordi Pujol
Hi all, I think starting a flame war against Qt/NoKia/Digia is not good for anyone. My current position about Qt-project : I disagree with pushing so much QML, and yes I also think is a "toy programming language", by now. It has to evolve & mature a lot. Perhaps this point justifies so much work

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-13 Thread Turunen Tuukka
> > > >> You're correct that this is how business works: Nokia's business is >> selling mobile devices (and services) - Digia's is in selling >> consultancy. Digia has customers who pay them to work on features and >> bugs that their customers need, Nokia does not. > >It is worth noting that Digia'

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread d3fault
On 5/12/12, Robin Burchell wrote: > Let me try explain: as you should already know, some of the work on Qt > is being funded by commercial licensees (via digia) to work on what > those commercial licensees want them to work on - already - _as a part > of the project you're proposing to abandon_. T

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Thiago Macieira
On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 17.07.40, Stephen Chu wrote: > On 5/12/12 5:01 PM, Thiago Macieira wrote: > > On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 22.28.40, Thiago Macieira wrote: > >> Developers like you might be the numerical majority, but when it comes to > >> number of products developed and shipped to

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Stephen Chu
On 5/12/12 5:01 PM, Thiago Macieira wrote: > On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 22.28.40, Thiago Macieira wrote: >> Developers like you might be the numerical majority, but when it comes to >> number of products developed and shipped to customers, I'm pretty sure that >> no one will come close to "next

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Thiago Macieira
On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 22.28.40, Thiago Macieira wrote: > Developers like you might be the numerical majority, but when it comes to > number of products developed and shipped to customers, I'm pretty sure that > no one will come close to "next billion". Correcting myself. There is one who

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Thiago Macieira
On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 14.28.49, d3fault wrote: > Again and again it is mentioned "if you want it done, code it > yourself". But my response to you is that we are the majority (of Qt > users (developers who use Qt)) and you have an obligation to code it No, you're not. Developers like you

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Thiago Macieira
On sábado, 12 de maio de 2012 21.57.17, Holger Hans Peter Freyther wrote: > On 05/12/2012 08:28 PM, d3fault wrote: > > whereas the point I'm trying to make is that the Qt Project generates > > *enough* money based purely on Commercial Sales (which mostly just > > boil down to support anyways -- the

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Robin Burchell
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 8:28 PM, d3fault wrote: > And he also made note "you still will need you or someone to work on > it". Exactly. Qt Commercial Sales (post-fork) will fund the 'someone > working on it'. I gather from this that you're proposing the idea of a fork. Stop being an idiot. Let me

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread Holger Hans Peter Freyther
On 05/12/2012 08:28 PM, d3fault wrote: > whereas the point I'm trying to make is that the Qt Project generates > *enough* money based purely on Commercial Sales (which mostly just > boil down to support anyways -- the LGPL is good enough for *most* > Commercial uses) to drive it's own development.

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-12 Thread d3fault
On 5/11/12, BRM wrote: > 1. We are not _Nokia's_ core customers. Never were. Qt is extremely small > compared to Nokia at large. Not Nokia's core customers... Qt's core customers. Nokia's core customers are Mobile end users... which is why they're pushing so hard for this Toy Programming Language

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-11 Thread Quim Gil
What are we discussing, really? It is clear that the answer "if you don't like the status of a module then you can contribute to it since its OSS etc" doesn't make happy many people whenever is written. Still, this is the case. It would be also the case even after the scenario of Nokia stopping

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-11 Thread Atlant Schmidt
es+aschmidt=dekaresearch@qt-project.org] On Behalf Of BRM Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 10:19 To: d3fault; development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML > From: d3fault > So, I'm supposed to want to contribute an upgraded C++ GUI API ("Yes, > the Qt Wid

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-11 Thread BRM
> From: d3fault > So, I'm supposed to want to contribute an upgraded C++ GUI API ("Yes, > the Qt Widgets module we have in Qt 5 is right now marked as ‘done’, > which means we don’t have anybody actively working on new features for > the module at this point in time. But this can change any day i

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-11 Thread d3fault
So, I'm supposed to want to contribute an upgraded C++ GUI API ("Yes, the Qt Widgets module we have in Qt 5 is right now marked as ‘done’, which means we don’t have anybody actively working on new features for the module at this point in time. But this can change any day if someone has some interes

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-09 Thread André Pönitz
On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 02:38:24PM +0100, Philip Ashmore wrote: > If I could debug a Qml application the same way I can debug > html5/JavaScript it would help> Qml uptake a lot. > > This would require a Qml document object model (DOM) and a > debugger capable of inspecting Qml, JavaScript and c++.

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-09 Thread kai.koehne
> -Original Message- > [...] > Given the lack of comment I'll try to rephrase this. > > If I could debug a Qml application the same way I can debug html5/JavaScript > it would help Qml uptake a lot. > > This would require a Qml document object model (DOM) and a debugger > capable of insp

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-09 Thread Philip Ashmore
On 07/05/12 01:32, Philip Ashmore wrote: > Hi there. > > I recently dived into Qml not long after playing around in html5/JavaScript. > > I wanted to see what methods I could call in my QAbstractTableModel-derived > class - I wanted to know if Qml code could access headerData() for the > column > h

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Alan Alpert
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:08:38 ext Frank Hemer wrote: > On Tuesday 08 May 2012 09:50:16 Peter Kuemmel wrote: > > > > Now we suddenly have an easy to use, yet compulsory, Turing complete > > > > language with essentially no support from off-the-shelf tools. > > > > > > It's this "compulsory" part that

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Frank Hemer
On Tuesday 08 May 2012 13:18:26 lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > On 5/8/12 12:08 PM, "ext Frank Hemer" wrote: > >On Tuesday 08 May 2012 09:50:16 Peter Kuemmel wrote: > >> > > Now we suddenly have an easy to use, yet compulsory, Turing complete > >> > > language with essentially no support from off-th

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread lars.knoll
On 5/8/12 12:08 PM, "ext Frank Hemer" wrote: >On Tuesday 08 May 2012 09:50:16 Peter Kuemmel wrote: >> > > Now we suddenly have an easy to use, yet compulsory, Turing complete >> > > language with essentially no support from off-the-shelf tools. >> > >> > It's this "compulsory" part that I don't u

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Frank Hemer
On Tuesday 08 May 2012 09:50:16 Peter Kuemmel wrote: > > > Now we suddenly have an easy to use, yet compulsory, Turing complete > > > language with essentially no support from off-the-shelf tools. > > > > It's this "compulsory" part that I don't understand. > > The current situation is that if you

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Frank Hemer
On Tuesday 08 May 2012 04:13:40 Alan Alpert wrote: > On Mon, 7 May 2012 07:44:56 ext André Pönitz wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 07:35:02AM +, lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > > > [...] And who says that 100% of the code has to be C++? > > > > Nobody reasonably wants that. But people like to h

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Uwe Rathmann
On 05/08/2012 04:13 AM, Alan Alpert wrote: > It's this "compulsory" part that I don't understand. The current situation is > that if you don't want to use QML you don't use it. Lars wrote in his blog about the vision behind Qt5, but isn't the main idea behind this one: a) application development

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-08 Thread Peter Kuemmel
> > Now we suddenly have an easy to use, yet compulsory, Turing complete > > language with essentially no support from off-the-shelf tools. > > It's this "compulsory" part that I don't understand. > The current situation is that if you don't want to use > QML you don't use it. Does "don't use it"

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-07 Thread Alan Alpert
On Mon, 7 May 2012 07:44:56 ext André Pönitz wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 07:35:02AM +, lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > > [...] And who says that 100% of the code has to be C++? > > Nobody reasonably wants that. But people like to have a choice, and > different people will base their choice

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-06 Thread Philip Ashmore
Hi there. I recently dived into Qml not long after playing around in html5/JavaScript. I wanted to see what methods I could call in my QAbstractTableModel-derived class - I wanted to know if Qml code could access headerData() for the column headers. If you're looking for a place for Qml, I woul

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-05-06 Thread André Pönitz
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 07:35:02AM +, lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > [...] And who says that 100% of the code has to be C++? Nobody reasonably wants that. But people like to have a choice, and different people will base their choice on different factors. > I bet you are also happily using Perl

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-25 Thread Alan Alpert
pert Alan (Nokia-MP/Brisbane); development@qt-project.org > >>Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML > >> > >>>> I do think we should evaluate exposing the QML implementations to C++ > >>>> for 5.1. > >>> > >>> I think a bet

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-24 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Alan, On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:16 AM, wrote: >>From: ext Girish Ramakrishnan [gir...@forwardbias.in] >>Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:50 PM >>To: Donald Carr >>Cc: Alpert Alan (Nokia-MP/Brisbane); development@qt-project.org >>Subject: Re: [Development] The p

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-24 Thread alan.alpert
>From: development-bounces+alan.alpert=nokia@qt-project.org >[development->bounces+alan.alpert=nokia@qt-project.org] on behalf of ext >d3fault [d3faultdot...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:33 PM > To: development@qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Developm

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-24 Thread alan.alpert
>From: ext Girish Ramakrishnan [gir...@forwardbias.in] >Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:50 PM >To: Donald Carr >Cc: Alpert Alan (Nokia-MP/Brisbane); development@qt-project.org >Subject: Re: [Development] The place of QML >>> I do think we should evaluate exposing the

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Donald, On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Donald Carr wrote: > Hey Girish, > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan > wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Alan Alpert wrote: And as others already pointed out, we need to be careful as to what we expose in C++.

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Donald Carr
Hey Girish, On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Alan Alpert wrote: >>> And as others already pointed out, we need to be careful as to what we >>> expose in C++. Any API we add comes at a large cost (that you probably do >>> not see) in

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Shawn, On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > > But can non-constant bindings be evaluated without v8 being involved? e.g. > width: parent.width - 20 > Yes, no v8 involved. I believe it's done our own js evaluator "v4" (src/qml/qml/v4). See Chris Adams excellent new document

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Alan and Lars, On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Alan Alpert wrote: >> And as others already pointed out, we need to be careful as to what we >> expose in C++. Any API we add comes at a large cost (that you probably do >> not see) in terms of maintenance and limitations to what we can change >

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Monday, April 23, 2012 06:59:26 PM ext Alan Alpert wrote: > On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:35:02 ext lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > > On 4/22/12 9:14 AM, "ext d3fault" wrote: > > >... > > > > ... > > > > >To quote Lars, > > > > > >We want to make the usage of Javascript supported as well as C++ is > >

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread d3fault
Ivan Cukic ( http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16465/P15 ): > (just pulled the last quote regarding C++ and UIs, not replying to that > post) > >> C++ is very capable of creating UIs in a declarative way, it is just that >> QWidgets are not implemented with that kind of API. One could create

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread Alan Alpert
On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:35:02 ext lars.kn...@nokia.com wrote: > On 4/22/12 9:14 AM, "ext d3fault" wrote: > > >... > ... > >To quote Lars, > > > >We want to make the usage of Javascript supported as well as C++ is > >supported. We are not making it the superior way or even the only way. > > > > > >.

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-23 Thread lars.knoll
On 4/22/12 9:14 AM, "ext d3fault" wrote: >Yes, it is strongly biased due to the wording. Fix the wording and post >it anyways. The numbers will not change. > >I got bored and drew a pretty picture to summarize my feelings for QML: >http://bayimg.com/jaooAAaDC > >Hope you laugh. > >But back to bei

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-22 Thread d3fault
Yes, it is strongly biased due to the wording. Fix the wording and post it anyways. The numbers will not change. I got bored and drew a pretty picture to summarize my feelings for QML: http://bayimg.com/jaooAAaDC Hope you laugh. But back to being serious. How can anybody in the QML camp argue aga

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-20 Thread marius.storm-olsen
That's a strongly biased poll due to the wording. And it's missing the points the Lars has been trying convey, but some seem to ignore. -- Sent from my Nokia N9On 4/20/12 17:31 ext d3fault wrote: *cough* http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16465/ Does Qt need a modern C++ GUI API? -No, I a

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-20 Thread d3fault
*cough* http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16465/ Does Qt need a modern C++ GUI API? > -No, I am perfectly happy with QML, JavaScript, interpreters, virtual > machines, glue code, glue abstract and proxy object > -Yes, I’d like the option of 100% native development without being left > behin

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-19 Thread Quim Gil
Please, let's use The place of QML thread to discuss The place of QML. :) Website, blogs etc is a topic for the [Marketing] list, where you can discuss with Alex and others taking care of the website. fwiw the discussion about Qt Progect news, blogs and planets has started in that list 2 or 3

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-19 Thread Richard Moore
On 19 April 2012 16:17, wrote: >> I think many of us know the 'problems' with planetqt, so I won't voice >> it out here because I don't know what is public information. >> >> I think if we can just have a aggregator on the qt-project, it would >> be good enough. Alexandra, what do you think? > >

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-19 Thread marius.storm-olsen
On 19/04/2012 09:49, ext Girish Ramakrishnan wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:25 PM, André Somers wrote: >> Op 19-4-2012 8:18, Robin Burchell schreef: >>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan >>> wrote: As for a blog, why is there no qt-project blog? It would be great t

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-19 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:25 PM, André Somers wrote: > Op 19-4-2012 8:18, Robin Burchell schreef: >> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan >>  wrote: >>> As for a blog, why is there no qt-project blog? It would be great to >>> have people blogging about Qt development related stuf

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-18 Thread André Somers
Op 19-4-2012 8:18, Robin Burchell schreef: > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan > wrote: >> As for a blog, why is there no qt-project blog? It would be great to >> have people blogging about Qt development related stuff. > presumably because it's a bit hard to define who gets ac

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-18 Thread Robin Burchell
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Girish Ramakrishnan wrote: > As for a blog, why is there no qt-project blog? It would be great to > have people blogging about Qt development related stuff. presumably because it's a bit hard to define who gets access to that, etc. there is planetqt, which is als

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-18 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi, On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Girish Ramakrishnan wrote: > Hi Alan, > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Alan Alpert wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm a little worried that the position of QML in Qt5 is not entirely clear. >> It's a great new technology, but that "new" part means that realisticall

Re: [Development] The place of QML

2012-04-18 Thread Girish Ramakrishnan
Hi Alan, On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Alan Alpert wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little worried that the position of QML in Qt5 is not entirely clear. > It's a great new technology, but that "new" part means that realistically it > will not take over everything, everywhere, immediately upon the relea

[Development] The place of QML

2012-04-16 Thread Alan Alpert
Hi, I'm a little worried that the position of QML in Qt5 is not entirely clear. It's a great new technology, but that "new" part means that realistically it will not take over everything, everywhere, immediately upon the release of Qt 5.0.0. To help place QML within the greater Qt context, I've