On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:32:47PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:19:45PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> > I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> > basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> > I've never used systemd -- i
On 11/20/13, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 21:00 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
>>
>>> I'm using systemd for a very long time now
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:19:45PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
> have installed it, does
On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Hi Zenaan,
>
> I could talk about real issues that are systemd related, but I resist,
Then please also resist "emotive" and "non-technical" attacks.
That is the only reasonable alternative.
Emotional attacks are sometimes forgiven when there is a genuine
techni
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 20:11 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 07:11:04PM +, Brian wrote:
> > In what way does such an extended discussion "perfectly" answer the OP's
> > question,oespecially when some of the responses imply bad faith on the
> > part of the OP and a develo
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 07:11:04PM +, Brian wrote:
> In what way does such an extended discussion "perfectly" answer the OP's
> question,oespecially when some of the responses imply bad faith on the
> part of the OP and a developer of some linux software? Mails such as
> those do not reflect we
On Wed 20 Nov 2013 at 16:33:08 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 03:30:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > I've got doubts that it would be different on this list, however, we
> > perhaps should continue at
> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offt
Hi,
Dňa Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:37:52 +0100 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
napísal:
> > systemd's pulled in by GNOME.
>
> Wrong. Every program using dbus, and they are not only GNOME ones,
> pulls in systemd-login0. For example, Konsole (KDE) depends on dbus.
> At least on Debian Linux.
There are p
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 03:30:05PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> I've got doubts that it would be different on this list, however, we
> perhaps should continue at
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic .
But it's perfectly on topic.
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Let's stop _capturing_ "testing wants to install systemd" for a
discussion that is proved to lead
- in best cases to nothing
- or usually to a flame war
I've got doubts that it would be different on this list, however, we
perhaps should continue at
http://lists.alioth.debian.
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Tom H wrote:
>>
>> If you want to check whether your your system shut down because it was
>> overheating (as someone needed to on fedora-users recently), you can
>> run "journalctl _KERNEL_SUBSYSTEM=thermal".
>
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:37 PM, wrote:
> Le 20.11.2013 12:48, Tom H a écrit :
>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Brad Alexander wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Rob Owens wrote:
I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
basis. I noticed toda
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Tom H wrote:
> [...]
> If you want to check whether your your system shut down because it was
> overheating (as someone needed to on fedora-users recently), you can
> run "journalctl _KERNEL_SUBSYSTEM=thermal".
Thus, Poettering and the systemd crowd have invented
IMO we should stop discussing systemd ;).
JFTR
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 13:11 +, Tom H wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Ralf Mardorf
> wrote:
> >
> > Once you should use it again, please let me know how comfortable you're
> > with journalctl.
>
> This is the second time in this threa
Le 20.11.2013 12:48, Tom H a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Brad Alexander
wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Rob Owens wrote:
I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install
systemd.
I've nev
Le 20.11.2013 13:34, Joel Rees a écrit :
One minor quibble with his myths, the *nix shell languages are not
arcane, no more arcane, at any rate, than C itself. The odd syntax
for
conditionals has a reason. Every programming language has it's
reasons, and failure to understand them makes them ap
Le 20.11.2013 10:34, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 09:08 +0100, Slavko wrote:
Please, how useful are Arch's things for me as Debian user?
My apologies Slavko, I'll rephrase it, the state of Debian's testing
initscripts/systemd seems to be neither fish nor fowl. When I
experien
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
>
> Once you should use it again, please let me know how comfortable you're
> with journalctl.
This is the second time in this thread that you criticize journald and
I don't understand why.
1) If you're using systemd as pid 1, you can configu
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Tom H wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Rob Owens wrote:
>>>
>>> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
>>> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install s
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 21:00 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>>> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
>
>> I'm using systemd for a very long time now, the content of the above
>> link is
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
>
> Words from the man who shoots photos from himself in front of a mirror
> to post them in the internet
I don't see how the fact the Lennart posted such a picture of himself
is in any way an issue for systemd.
Taking a selfie, whether in a
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:42 AM, James Allsopp
wrote:
> On 20 November 2013 10:00, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>>
>>> My apologies Slavko, I'll rephrase it, the state of Debian's testing
>>> initscripts/systemd seems to be neither fish nor fowl. When I
>>> experi
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>
> Installing systemd will not change your init system (unless you
> actively choose to do so). GNOME now depends on some of the
> systemd components but does not require you to have systemd as
> your init system.
Is there feature parity b
Hi Zenaan,
I could talk about real issues that are systemd related, but I resist,
since AFAIK there never ever was a useful discussion about systemd.
People simply should use and experience it on their own.
Once you should use it again, please let me know how comfortable you're
with journalctl.
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Rob Owens wrote:
>
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
> have installed it, does the sys
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Brad Alexander wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Rob Owens wrote:
>>
>> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
>> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
>> I've never used systemd -- is there anyt
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Ralf Mardorf
wrote:
>
> However, http://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd , systemd by the
> Debian package depends on udev, so they aren't merged and it also
> depends on initscripts, IOW systemd isn't systemd. Why does systemd need
> initscripts? Must be regardi
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Tom H wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Rob Owens wrote:
>> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
>> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
>> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fe
On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 21:00 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
> I'm using systemd for a very long time now, the content of the above
> link is complete bogus, since it does ignore the real issues.
>
> Howeve
> The best thing to do, to build an opinion about advantages and drawbacks
^ form an opinion
> of systemd is to use systemd. Reading other opinions, experiences that
> usually are long flame wars, is useless. Install it, use it and
> experience it yourself.
--
T
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 11:56 +0100, I wrote ...
> On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 21:00 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
>
> Words from the man who shoots photos from himself in front of a mirror
> to post them in the internet (not you Zenaan, I'm tali
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 21:00 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
Words from the man who shoots photos from himself in front of a mirror
to post them in the internet (not you Zenaan, I'm taliking about
Lennart ;). My apologize, sure, a "package inv
Hi,
>From a casual perusal of the lists systemd, seems to be getting a
reputation as one of the those projects to avoid like pulse-audio and mono,
but the link you sent sounds more reasonable. Is there a good balanced
discussion anywhere?
James
On 20 November 2013 10:00, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
> have installed it, does the sys
On 11/20/13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 09:08 +0100, Slavko wrote:
>> Please, how useful are Arch's things for me as Debian user?
>
> My apologies Slavko, I'll rephrase it, the state of Debian's testing
> initscripts/systemd seems to be neither fish nor fowl. When I
> experienced
Installing systemd will not change your init system (unless you
actively choose to do so). GNOME now depends on some of the
systemd components but does not require you to have systemd as
your init system.
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To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubs
On Tue 19 Nov 2013 at 19:19:45 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
> have installed it, does the
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 09:08 +0100, Slavko wrote:
> Please, how useful are Arch's things for me as Debian user?
My apologies Slavko, I'll rephrase it, the state of Debian's testing
initscripts/systemd seems to be neither fish nor fowl. When I
experienced this on Arch Linux during the transition fro
Hi,
Dňa Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:21:02 +0100 Ralf Mardorf
napísal:
> Impressions from Arch
> =
Please, how useful are Arch's things for me as Debian user?
regards
--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk
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Description: PGP signature
That's interesting. I am on a sid system, and I haven't noticed systemd on
my system. I have the support libraries:
$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii libsystemd-daemon0:amd64 204-5
amd64systemd utility library
ii libsystemd-login0:amd64 204-5
amd64systemd log
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 01:41 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 19:19 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> > I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> > basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> > I've never used systemd -- is there any
On 20/11/13 11:19, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis.
H. Testing *and* depend.
Depend and stable makes sense, but "depend" and "constant state of flux"
- not so much. :/
I'd clone your "work" machine in VirtualBox (P2V) and test th
On 20/11/13 11:19, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install
> systemd. I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?
Not usually.
It might pay to --purge any "to be uninstalled" a
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 19:19 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
> have installed it, does the sys
I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
basis. I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear? For those who
have installed it, does the system handle the switch from the old init
scripts, or is there
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