On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 10:07:06 +0530, Nilesh Patra
wrote:
>And when you say "pointing it to a server" the pre-requisite here is someone
>should "own" a server
>for that.
In the case of IRC, that is simply not true. irc.debian.org points to
oftc and that's all you need to be there.
>You may argue t
On 04/06/25 8:39 pm, Marc Haber wrote:
> Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an
> IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be
> bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties?
Definitely. Many DDs don't use IRC. When I started, I didn't either
On 04/06/25 6:27 pm, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> On 04/06/2025 13:28, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 13:56:49)
>>> On 04/06/2025 12:39, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> Separately, may I also suggest some k
Please roll me (and potentially debian...@lists.debian.org) in the CC list.
On 6/4/25 11:04 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
(Of course, the "open source" part applies to the client app, not to the
model)
OpenAI has an Open Source fund. Maybe Debian should apply[1] for a grant
so that Debian contribut
Le Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 04:39:30PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin a écrit :
>
> We should just abolish and forbid RFPs
Recently (1~2 years) I have been a simple contributor in a different open
source community, https://nf-co.re/. Here is my experience.
- I mostly contribute things that fit my own n
On Wednesday, June 4, 2025 6:05:25 AM Mountain Standard Time Ahmad Khalifa
wrote:
> On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
> > Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit :
> >> Because they're misleading and waste contributor time.
> >
> > I don't think so, in general. Some RFH ar
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Hilmar Preuße
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
* Package name: proftpd-mod-prometheus
Version : 0.2
Upstream Contact: TJ Saunders
* URL : https://github.com/Castaglia/proftpd-mod_prometheus
* License : GPL
P
On Wed, 04 Jun 2025 18:22:59 +0200, Joachim Zobel
wrote:
>Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 17:10 +0100 schrieb Ahmad Khalifa:
>> But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a
>> project manager to come in and ask for updates here :)
>
>This is actually an important point. The
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
I think the problem you're running into there is that people perceive
closing old WNPP issues as making the information in them disappear. I'm
not sure that's quite accurate, but it certainly makes it much harder to
find.
Not much,
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 07:18:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead
>> to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to
>> a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of
>> the he
Ahmad Khalifa writes:
> I just thought there would have been a much higher willingness to
> discuss how to improve things. I was wrong.
Sorry, yes, Debian discussions around workflow are often frustrating
because part of the discussion is usually at least a mild request for
existing maintainers
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 05:09:45PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an
> IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be
> bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties?
Marc. Every human interaction is a give-and-ta
On 04/06/2025 18:28, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next frustrating
threadmill that we offer: looking for a sponsor.
What does this line mean?
That getting a sponsor as a new cont
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:13:57PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
And, when you "just" fix bugs, you don't have to the next
frustrating threadmill that we offer: looking for a sponsor.
What does this line mean?
That getting a sponsor as a new contributor, especially for a new package,
is frustr
On 04/06/2025 17:26, Russ Allbery wrote:
Ahmad Khalifa writes:
But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a
project manager to come in and ask for updates here :)
Debian has the RFA process, orphaning, submitting another RFH, etc...
I don't know, but seems no one
Quoting Andrey Rakhmatullin (2025-06-04 18:37:44)
> On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >> Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead
> >> to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to
> >> a list of RC bugs tagge
On 04/06/2025 17:34, Marc Haber wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
I suggest to instead more narrowly guide them towards *recent* *RFP*
bugreports rather than WNPP bugreports in general.
It will not surprise me if some newcomers find recent RFP bugrepo
Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 17:10 +0100 schrieb Ahmad Khalifa:
> But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a
> project manager to come in and ask for updates here :)
This is actually an important point. The usually means that make a
project socially work are not there.
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
Amen to that. Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead
to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally to
a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint of
the heart").
I s
Hi,
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 06:22:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
I suggest to instead more narrowly guide them towards *recent* *RFP*
bugreports rather than WNPP bugreports in general.
It will not surprise me if some newcomers find recent RFP bugreports a
total waste of their time, but I k
Ahmad Khalifa writes:
> But something has to break the cycle. There is no daily standup or a
> project manager to come in and ask for updates here :)
> Debian has the RFA process, orphaning, submitting another RFH, etc...
> I don't know, but seems no one wants to solve this and the status quo i
Quoting Marc Haber (2025-06-04 17:44:52)
> On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:31:09AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >The most common (not the only) reason why packages file an RFH bug, in my
> >experience, is that they are overwhelmed and unable to keep up with the
> >packaging, which unfortunately is the s
On 04/06/2025 16:31, Russ Allbery wrote:
Ahmad Khalifa writes:
Joachim was mislead by an RFH. Even raised an MR and still got ignored.
I replied to an RFH bug, got ignored. Raised an MR and still got ignored
(my MR is only 5 months old, maybe still hope?).
The most common (not the only) reas
Marc Haber writes:
> On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:32:49AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Yes? I refuse to use IRC because I find it annoying, and yet I seem to
>> put up with all of the rest of our peculiarities. :)
> Would you use Matrix, XMPP or some of those modern chat systems?
No, which, fair
On Wed, 04 Jun 2025 at 17:44:52 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
Maybe we should not direct newcomers to wnpp but instead
to a list of wishlist bugs tagged help (for newbies), and optionally
to a list of RC bugs tagged help (with the warning "not for the faint
of the heart").
The "newcomer" tag in th
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:31:09AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
The most common (not the only) reason why packages file an RFH bug, in my
experience, is that they are overwhelmed and unable to keep up with the
packaging, which unfortunately is the same state that will lead them to
not responed to M
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:24:45PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
That would be nice and the work is already ongoing.
Well, let's switch over to RPM then.
Greetings
Marc, leaving this thread for today for mental health, making a mental
note to have at least one meal with wRAR in Brest, hop
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 08:32:49AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Marc Haber writes:
Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an
IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be
bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties?
Yes? I refuse to use IRC beca
> >As unfortunate as it may sound, some of this is actually true. The worse
> >part is
> >if the newcomers want to chat, the official media in Debian for that is IRC,
> >which
> >is hard to use and setup a bouncer and so on. I don't argue against making
> >our tooling
> >better.
>
> Do you serio
Marc Haber writes:
> Do you seriously think that people who can't be bothered with finding an
> IRC Client, pointing it to a server and joining a channel can be
> bothered with Debian's other peculiariaties?
Yes? I refuse to use IRC because I find it annoying, and yet I seem to put
up with all o
Ahmad Khalifa writes:
> Joachim was mislead by an RFH. Even raised an MR and still got ignored.
> I replied to an RFH bug, got ignored. Raised an MR and still got ignored
> (my MR is only 5 months old, maybe still hope?).
The most common (not the only) reason why packages file an RFH bug, in my
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 05:09:45PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
As unfortunate as it may sound, some of this is actually true. The worse part is
if the newcomers want to chat, the official media in Debian for that is IRC,
which
is hard to use and setup a bouncer and so on. I don't argue against maki
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 07:42:18PM +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote:
As unfortunate as it may sound, some of this is actually true. The worse part is
if the newcomers want to chat, the official media in Debian for that is IRC,
which
is hard to use and setup a bouncer and so on. I don't argue against m
Hi,
On 11/01/25 at 19:13 -0800, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
> ...
> > Debian should consider allocating some budget like several hundred USD
> > per month for the LLM API calls for all members and new-comers' usage.
>
> I don't think Debian should as an organization pay for LLMs. On the
> contrary I w
On 04/06/25 6:27 pm, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> On 04/06/2025 13:28, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Alternatively (because that might indeed be a waste of time), please
>> consider framing personal opinions as such, not as absolutes. Reason
>> I encourage you to do that is that I want to discuss with you,
On 04/06/2025 14:39, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 15:05:25)
On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit :
Because they're misleading and waste contributor time.
I don't think so, in general. Some RFH are not
Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 15:05:25)
> On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
> > Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit :
> >>
> >> Because they're misleading and waste contributor time.
> >
> > I don't think so, in general. Some RFH are not detailed enough, but many
>
On 04/06/2025 13:50, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit :
Because they're misleading and waste contributor time.
I don't think so, in general. Some RFH are not detailed enough, but many
are pretty clear about which kind of help is needed.
I have re
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 01:06:15PM +0200, Joachim Zobel wrote:
> We should have a word for that, may be uncontributable does
> fit.
if you want to add insult to injury, yes, then it's a perfect fit.
else I would suggest to find another word...
--
cheers,
Holger
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holge
On 04/06/2025 13:28, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 13:56:49)
On 04/06/2025 12:39, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Separately, may I also suggest some kind of timeout on the RFH bugs?
(oldest is about to turn
Le 2025-06-04 13:56, Ahmad Khalifa a écrit :
Because they're misleading and waste contributor time.
I don't think so, in general. Some RFH are not detailed enough, but many
are pretty clear about which kind of help is needed.
They're both useful within a "recent" time span (say 6m or 1y).
Hi,
> Perhaps, to ease the burden of those of us maintaining many packages,
> we could instead have this more complex rule:
>
> > The default debian branch is the first available of these, in order:
> > 1. debian/latest
> > 2. debian/unstable
> > 3. debian/experimental
If no other information was
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 02:23:26PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
I wonder if I should flag all of the 700+ packages that I am involved
in packaging as RFH, since I am in principle open for help.
I think this thread is wildly mixing up bugs that are tagged "help"
with packages that have an RFH Bug i
Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 13:56:49)
> On 04/06/2025 12:39, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> >> Separately, may I also suggest some kind of timeout on the RFH bugs?
> >> (oldest is about to turn 20 yo)
> >
> > Why?
> > If the t
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 02:15:47PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
I wonder if I should flag all of the 700+ packages that I am involved
in packaging as RFH, since I am in principle open for help.
I think this thread is wildly mixing up bugs that are tagged "help" with
packages that have an RFH
Quoting Ahmad Khalifa (2025-06-04 13:51:54)
> On 04/06/2025 12:38, Marc Haber wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
> >> On 04/06/2025 11:39, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
> >>> Lack of maintainer time is likely the reason why your
> >>> https://salsa.debian.org/apache-
On 04/06/2025 12:39, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Separately, may I also suggest some kind of timeout on the RFH bugs?
(oldest is about to turn 20 yo)
Why?
If the team no longer wants help, they should just close it.
If the package w
Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 11:21 + schrieb Holger Levsen:
> if you want to add insult to injury, yes, then it's a perfect fit.
> else I would suggest to find another word...
Sorry for that, I am not a native english speaker and may have missed
parts of the meaning. Neither insult nor injry
On 04/06/2025 12:38, Marc Haber wrote:
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
On 04/06/2025 11:39, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Lack of maintainer time is likely the reason why your
https://salsa.debian.org/apache-team/apache2/-/merge_requests/43 went
8 months without a respon
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 04:39:30PM +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
We should just abolish and forbid RFPs, but in the current state
having old open RFPs works as designed IMO, saying that someone at
some time in the past wanted this software packaged for some reason.
I dislike that. An open
Le 2025-06-04 13:06, Joachim Zobel a écrit :
My guess was that the apache2 package is beyond receiving help.
This is right in a way. As there are not enough active maintainers and
they are busy with many other things, dealing with one-off, non-urgent
contributions is not something they are o
On 04/06/2025 11:39, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Lack of maintainer time is likely the reason why your
https://salsa.debian.org/apache-team/apache2/-/merge_requests/43 went
8 months without a response. Some people in this thread suggested
...
Separately, may I also suggest some kind of timeout on t
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 01:22:07PM +0200, Julien Plissonneau Duquène wrote:
the maintenance of this specific package (apache2) relies mostly on
two specific people and not just any Debian Developer in general.
Also note that this package has an open RFH (Request For Help) [1],
That's what th
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
Separately, may I also suggest some kind of timeout on the RFH bugs?
(oldest is about to turn 20 yo)
Why?
If the team no longer wants help, they should just close it.
If the package was orphaned since then, ideally it should be clos
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Ahmad Khalifa wrote:
On 04/06/2025 11:39, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Lack of maintainer time is likely the reason why your
https://salsa.debian.org/apache-team/apache2/-/merge_requests/43 went
8 months without a response. Some people in this thread suggested
Hi,
Le 2025-06-04 12:39, Otto Kekäläinen a écrit :
the maintenance of this specific package (apache2) relies mostly on two
specific people and not just any Debian Developer in general.
Also note that this package has an open RFH (Request For Help) [1],
which means that its maintenance team is
Am Mittwoch, dem 04.06.2025 um 13:39 +0300 schrieb Otto Kekäläinen:
> as the
> maintenance of this specific package (apache2) relies mostly on two
> specific people and not just any Debian Developer in general.
My guess was that the apache2 package is beyond receiving help. The
people maintaining
On Wed, Jun 04, 2025 at 01:48:25PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Hi!
I am not sure what is the default in Salsa for new repositories right
now, but I suggest all Debian Developers/Maintainers who use Salsa to:
- Review your global notification settings at
https://salsa.debian.org/-/profile/noti
Hi!
I am not sure what is the default in Salsa for new repositories right
now, but I suggest all Debian Developers/Maintainers who use Salsa to:
- Review your global notification settings at
https://salsa.debian.org/-/profile/notifications
- For each Salsa project you feel responsible for, go th
Hi!
...
> One fundamental thing is that you may not be welcomed simply because
> there is nobody there welcoming you. Adding a merge request for a fix
> may be pointless, because nobody will merge it. Reviewing is a certain
> effort and nobody has time for that.
..
> My experience does however als
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