2014-11-29 22:25 GMT+01:00 Svante Signell :
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 22:01 +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
>> On 2014-11-29 21:30, Steve Langasek wrote:
>> > Debian releases when it's ready. If large numbers of our users are
>> > going to
>> > have a bad experience with jessie as a result of being switc
Felipe Sateler writes:
...
> This is indeed unfortunate. Because runlevel[234] are links to
> multi-user.target it means that distinctions between those runlevels are
> not preserved. It also means that the ability to differentiate between
> graphical.target and multi-user.target is almost lost
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Iain R. Learmonth"
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Iain R. Learmonth"
* Package name: libfap
Version : 1.4
Upstream Author : Tapio Aaltonen, OH2GVE
* URL : http://www.pakettiradio.net/libfap/
* License : GPL
[I've removed the blatant trolling from the subject line.]
Marc Haber wrote:
> With all the technical issues in systemd popping up just now, we have
> frozen prematurely.
On the contrary, that's precisely what the freeze is *for*: to stop
taking new development that doesn't fix bugs (and potentia
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 12:30:49 -0800, Steve Langasek
wrote:
>On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:14:07PM +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 07:15:08PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
>> > One claim is changed, see below.
>
>> > On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 12:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
>> > > H
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 22:01 +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2014-11-29 21:30, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > Debian releases when it's ready. If large numbers of our users are
> > going to
> > have a bad experience with jessie as a result of being switched to
> > systemd,
> > then we should take appr
On 2014-11-29 21:30, Steve Langasek wrote:
Debian releases when it's ready. If large numbers of our users are
going to
have a bad experience with jessie as a result of being switched to
systemd,
then we should take appropriate steps to address that, even if that
means
unfreezing the installer
* Svante Signell , 2014-11-29, 21:27:
Debian will not be as it was historically
Indeed! Debian is going to be more awesome than it historically was
(with or without systemd overhead).
--
Jakub Wilk
--
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On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 21:27 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> But it does not seem like you are realizing what is
> happening unfortunately. Debian will not be as it was historically due
> to this issue. Maybe the new DDs are to young to learn from history?
Please don't patronise people. Just because
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:14:07PM +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 07:15:08PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > One claim is changed, see below.
> > On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 12:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > In summary:
> > > a) Upgrades should _not_ change in
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:19 +, Adam D. Barratt wrote:
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:40 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > This is another nail in the Universal OS coffin: Let's move to devuan,
> > please!
>
> You are of course free to do that. This discussion is about what Debian
> should do, howev
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:40 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> This is another nail in the Universal OS coffin: Let's move to devuan,
> please!
You are of course free to do that. This discussion is about what Debian
should do, however. If you wish to discuss Devuan, please do so in a
more appropriate
On 29-11-2014 19:40, Svante Signell wrote:
[...]
> This is another nail in the Universal OS coffin: Let's move to devuan,
> please! Use Debian as upstream (as long as it lives)
>
> Yes, next Debian release is lendows, not jessie :(
Thanks! We appreciate less noise on these lists and on the next
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
[…]
>>> The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
>>> discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd
Martin Steigerwald writes:
> Oh, holy… this… isn´t… true? Is it?
No, it isn't.
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Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 20:30:07 schrieb Svante Signell:
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-
Szmek:
> > New
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 08:30:07PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew
> > > Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
>
Hi,
Svante Signell writes:
> Have you seen this?
> http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2014-11.html#e2014-11-23T09_26_01.txt
I started reading and I just had to stop after the first few sentences,
where the author quotes the specification clearly out of context to
imply a cont
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:27 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> >
> > […]
> >
> > > The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> > > discussed. There ar
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 20:14 +0100, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 07:15:08PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > One claim is changed, see below.
> >
> > On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 12:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > Hello,
> >
> > > In summary:
> > > a) Upgrades should _not_ change i
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 17:10 +0100, Simon Richter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 29.11.2014 08:37, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> > I'm not Simon, but one valid argument I've heard is that embedded stuff
> > has a tendency to get stuck on old vendor kernels, something that
> > doesn't work so well when systemd u
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 19:12 +0100, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> New dbus client library is also slated to become
> public when its ready an
On Sat, 2014-11-29 at 12:20 +0100, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
[...]
> So in these logs we see that:
>
> 1. when I plug in my smartphone
> 2. the kernel tells me he has noticed it and correctly reports the
>newly discovered device to the log
> 3. also the usb-storage module reports that it is seeing
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 06:33:44PM +, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
> > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
>
> […]
>
> > The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> > discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd is
> > Linux only. And the potential "
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 07:15:08PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> One claim is changed, see below.
>
> On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 12:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > In summary:
> > a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed should be
> > kept.
> > b) New installs shou
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
[…]
> The second part, making systemd portable, has already been widely
> discussed. There are significant technical reasons why systemd is
> Linux only. And the potential "recepients", like BSD, don't seem to
> be interested anyway.
Unles
One claim is changed, see below.
On Fri, 2014-11-28 at 12:56 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> Hello,
> In summary:
> a) Upgrades should _not_ change init: whatever is installed should be
> kept.
> b) New installs should get systemd-sysv as default init with a debconf
> message about alternative ini
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:56AM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 11:36:20 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 08:34:46 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
> wrote:
>>Marc Haber:
>>> It's learning and understanding more than just a few bizarre new
>>> concepts.
>>>
>>I learned. I (think I) understand. But I do not think these fancy new
>>con
> Josselin Mouette writes:
[…]
> Desktops (not only GNOME) use a very tiny bit of systemd, interfaces
> that could be provided elsewhere.
Is that “use” as in “if available” or is that actually “require
and be sure to die unless provided”?
(Please forgive my ignora
Hi,
Cameron Norman writes:
> Do you really think logind and systemd are the only pieces of C
> software that struggle with strings or config parsing? Those are
> definitely a couple of things that could be split out into a separate
> library so we all do not have to either (a) suffer through it,
Hi,
On 29.11.2014 13:41, Alastair McKinstry wrote:
> I'm heartened that some developers are doing the work to make
> non-systemd remain a
> viable option in debian, but for it not to degenerate into "the systemd
> way / the less maintained
> and tested non-systemd way", we need to promote the API
Hi,
On 29.11.2014 08:37, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> I'm not Simon, but one valid argument I've heard is that embedded stuff
> has a tendency to get stuck on old vendor kernels, something that
> doesn't work so well when systemd uses newer kernel interfaces.
Correct, and I don't see the situation i
[ not sure what's the point of CCing debian-devel, but I kept it. I removed Ian
from the chain though, since he hasn't been much involved with curl lately ]
On sab, nov 29, 2014 at 01:10:20 +0100, Peter Palfrader wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently started to move parts of debian.org's infrastructure to
❦ 29 novembre 2014 12:41 GMT, Alastair McKinstry
:
> One concern I'd have is the lack of flexibility to produce a cut-down
> system. The option of "a dedicated init=/custom-program", but lack of
> an ntpd, for example, because ntp has been absorbed into systemd's
> orbit and other ntpd's bitro
> Why, precisely, do you foresee future problems with embedded systems
> development? Personally, I'm looking forward to a much easier time
> building future embedded systems using systemd, or the occasional
> too-small-for-anything-else embedded system (that couldn't run standard
> sysvinit or D
Hi,
I will host a small BSP at my home in January over the weekend of 16th -
18th.
Regrettably, I do not have enough room for more than a handful of
attendees, so I have invited some that I know are interested. If you would
particularly like to attend, please mail me privately and I'll see what
w
Hi,
I recently started to move parts of debian.org's infrastructure to jessie. I
noticed a regression with software using curl to do https with certificate
verification.
On wheezy, this works:
| weasel@mipsel-manda-01:~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/puppet-https-buildd
| Acquire::https::buildd.debia
So, since there hasn't been any reaction to this, let me try to ask a
few additional questions, that might help me to find out where to dig next:
Am 27.11.2014 um 18:53 schrieb Tomas Pospisek:
> Am 27.11.2014 um 17:12 schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>> On 11/27/2014 09:28 PM, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
>>> Hel
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Slaven Rezic
* Package name: libarray-heap-perl
Version : 3.1
Upstream Author : Marc Lehmann
* URL : https://metacpan.org/release/Array-Heap
* License : Artistic & GPL
Programming Lang: Perl
Description : perl mo
Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 10:49:34 schrieb Martin Steigerwald:
> Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 16:50:12 schrieb Neil Williams:
> > On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 16:24:12 +0100
> >
> > Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Neil Williams:
> > > > By having separate source packages, a stable
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Slaven Rezic
* Package name: bbbike
Version : 3.18
Upstream Author : Slaven Rezic
* URL : http://bbbike.sourceforge.net
* License : Artistic & GPL
Programming Lang: Perl
Description : route planner for cyclists
Am Samstag, 29. November 2014, 01:32:22 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:02:06PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > And well, I also wonder why systemd --user functionality is in the *same*
> > binary than the PID 1 stuff… but well… I brought this upstream to no
>
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 08:34:46 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>Marc Haber:
>> It's learning and understanding more than just a few bizarre new concepts.
>>
>I learned. I (think I) understand. But I do not think these fancy new
>concepts are bizarre at all. If anything, they make my life way easier.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 09:09:19 +0100, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>Marc Haber:
>> Which significantly changes things in Jessie since the majory of
>> services is still started via the old rcX.d mechanism, and thus
>> starting to runlevels behaves completely different from what users
>> expect.
>>
>Well
Le vendredi 28 novembre 2014 à 20:46 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard a écrit :
> Quoting Thorsten Glaser (2014-11-28 13:20:36)
> > On Fri, 28 Nov 2014, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >
> >> It's been a long time I've been thinking about it, and I believe that
> >> the only way to do this, would be to use trigge
Am Donnerstag, 27. November 2014, 16:50:12 schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 16:24:12 +0100
>
> Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Neil Williams:
> > > By having separate source packages, a stable API becomes mandatory.
> >
> > You're correct in that it is easier to keep an API
Hi,
Tollef Fog Heen:
> I'm not Simon, but one valid argument I've heard is that embedded stuff
> has a tendency to get stuck on old vendor kernels, something that
> doesn't work so well when systemd uses newer kernel interfaces.
>
That attitude is unfortunately not limited to "traditional" embedd
> > Here is my ITP for my rewrite of cruft's engine.
>
> I think you might want to email debian-mentors, with a sponsorship request
> (an RFS bug), rather than debian-devel, that is intended as a mailing list
> for technical discussions.
> See https://mentors.debian.net/sponsors
Ok thanks for adv
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Antoine Beaupré"
* Package name: willie
Version : 4.5.1
Upstream Author : Michael Yanovich, Edward Powell, Elad Alfassa...
* URL : https://github.com/embolalia/willie
* License : EFLv2
Programming Lang: Python
Descri
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Balasankar C
* Package name: ruby-redis-rack
Version : 1.5.0
Upstream Author : Luca Guidi
* URL : https://github.com/redis-store/redis-rack
* License : Expat
Programming Lang: Ruby
Description : Redis Store for R
Hi,
Marc Haber:
> Which significantly changes things in Jessie since the majory of
> services is still started via the old rcX.d mechanism, and thus
> starting to runlevels behaves completely different from what users
> expect.
>
Well, I wouldn't expect runlevel 2 to start a graphical desktop eit
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