Re: Earthlink and Swen

[Karsten M. Self]

on Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 08:56:48PM -0800, Ross Boylan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 04:15:45PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> ...
> > 
> > Earthlink have implemented virus and spam filtering within the past
> > month or so, early November, if time serves.
> 
> That explains some of the confusion.  It's good they are trying to be
> responsive.  Too bad they aren't doing it better.
> 
> As an aside to the comment that earthlink said they couldn't scan for
> viruses because that would be an invasion of privacy: one support
> person I spoke to hinted that the real issue was that scanning the
> entire body of email messages takes more resources than scanning the
> headers.  They may have resisted doing anything because of a shortage
> of CPU power (yes, I know, viruses consume CPU, bandwidth, disk space
> even if ignored...).  They also claimed that they weren't getting that
> many swens over their subscriber base.  This is perhaps true if it was
> harvesting off usenet postings.
> 
> > 
> > It's more than slightly flawed in several regards:
> > 
> >   - There's no SMTP-time blocking -- the only way to reliably inform a
> > sender that their message wasn't delivered, without joe-job risks.
> joe-job = ?

STFW 

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22joe-job%22

> > 
> >   - Viruses are filtered to a "quarantine" folder, which you still have
> > to check and clear periodically.  Whether and how this counts to you
> > 10 MiB mail buffer quota isn't clear.  Filter is based on Brightmail
> > IIRC.  This is *not* enabled by default, but must be selected by the
> > subscriber.
> 
> Their junk mail folder, according to their webmail interface, does not
> count against your quota, but may get periodically cleared out.  I'll
> have to check what the relation of this is to the new stuff, but
> probably it will work on the same principle.

There are several layers of ambiguity about this.  It appears poorly
considered in balance.

> Although filtering should "obviously" be done by service providers, it
> seems they have a lot of trouble getting it right.  Mail to me goes
> through two service providers (one of them is just a forwarder, and I
> only recently found out they were attempting to remove spam).  In both
> cases, I see non-trivial numbers of legitimate messages classified as
> spam and never delivered to me.  As you point out, they never even
> report anything about what's going on.   

I'm simply boggled that they can do this and think by any stretch of
logic or ethics that it's in some manner OK.

That said, most ISPs get a whole lot of crud wrong.  AOL was blocking
mail from me to my mother for some nine months, without notifying her of
the fact in advance, admitting it on inquiry, or offering any
alternatives.

That said, users can be a PITA, and _any_ introduced variance in the
system is another opportunity for things to go wrong.  Lord knows I
generally fsck myself up with even apparently minor changes to procmail
rules.  Mail is high-volume, affects lots of people, barely adheres to
even nominal standards by minimal margins, and is seen as a birthright
on the Internet


> (The irascible gentleman whose post started this thread apparently
> believes individual viruses are being sanitized by earthlink and
> delivered to him, but no one else has suggested they are doing that.)

There are various nodes through which mail is delivered.  Some are
taking to stripping viral payloads.  I've taken to reporting such
mail as spam, traning SA on the material, and spamlisting any
originating reporting addresses.


> Did earthlink send a notice of this change, or did they just do it?  I
> didn't know about it.  But then, I usually don't read their
> newsletters, where I suppose they might have mentioned it.  I used
> their webmail interface quite recently, and didn't see anything
> suggesting their filtering options had changed.

The announcement was scattershot at best.  Some press, website notice,
IIRC.  Though I rarely hit their own site.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
The Earth *is* flat.  But Mars is sharp and Venus is in tune, which
makes up for it.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[David Baron]

<
That reminds me of the reaction of a coworker of Ashkenazic origin upon
first encountering `chmod' year ago:  ``Khmad?  WTF is a khmad?  I've
got an uncle called Khmad!''

It can be enlightening at times to see things through new eyes...
<<

So  vould you vant to make a Hebrew shell ;-)>


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Re: OT: Lindows based on Debian? (Re: Linux is not for consumers!)

[David Baron]

That is exactly how I started! Knoppix--installation was painless and
reasonably complete and they include a good part of the OS and GNU stuff in
the Lindows "Warehouse".

> * David Baron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [031211 13:48]:
>
>>Actually, Michael Robertson is trying to sell his Debian based linux
>>to consumers.
>
>
> Is it possible to take a Lindows installation and convert it over to
> Debian sid or testing?  That would make it a lot more attractive.
>

fun stuff - dvd - 802.11g

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya

i've been playing with various new toys/widgets for next year

i've just gotten the distro to recognize the Netgear WG311 pci 
802.11g card  ( have a linksys card too but havent tested it yet )

- note that its "g" 54Mbps  ... vs the slower 802.11[a/b]

- i got it working with the athros drivers from madwifi
http://www.sourceforge.net/madwifi

- now the trick is to setup another box just like it
and the two machines should be able to talk to each other
over 802.11g  ...

- differences in various wireless stuff

http://www.Linux-Sec.net/Wireless/#Sniffers

- not that WEP is NOT secure ... ( its been cracked )

and the other fun stuff... i just bought my first dvd .. w/out having
a player or system setup ...
- played w/ ogle, xine, mplayer, few others..

- after a few hours of fiddling ( installing various packages )

- "dvd player" is now working .. so now i need a new set of
real speakers and real audio amps

- dvd stuff that ws installed
http://www.Linux-Video.net/DVD

--
-- howto documentation will get cleaned up later :-)
--

- time for beer .. earned my nickel for the week ..

c ya
alvin


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Re: Site packages

[Gaëtan CAPOU]

Gaëtan CAPOU wrote:

Please help me ,
My server is down until 3 weeks, because i need kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4
Have you a debian install with a drivers broacom BC5700 ???

Bests REgards.

Gaëtan CAPOU wrote:

Hi,
thank for you rely,
but, i need of this files to build the drivers of my LAN card to 
acces to internet.
I need to download this files to Windows computer.

Have you a other solution.
thank you.
gcp.
Paul William wrote:

Run the following command as root:

apt-get install kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4

Also, to view the page you mentioned go to googles cache:

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=cache:NYxRayN4luwJ:packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 



On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 21:50, Gaëtan CAPOU wrote:
 

hi,

i wait until 2 weeks the open of your site for install my server.
When did you open your site  http://packages.debian.org.
Please ssay me where is possible to download this files :
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4.html 

Thank you very much.

Mr CAPOU Gaëtan.
Paris.
France
  








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Re: My email is rejected by some sites

[Adam]

On Friday 12 December 2003 01:50, Antonio Rodr wrote:

> Please do post an example. I think I need one. Thanks.

This example is from an Exim 4 config file, but I think it will work in 
Exim 3 too.  (Could someone please correct this if it's wrong?)  The 
following stanza goes in the ROUTERS section, between "begin routers" and 
the normal "dnslookup" stanza.  Order is important in the ROUTERS section, 
because Exim tries them from the top down.

isp:
   driver = manualroute
   domains = adelphia.net:firenze.linux.it:bham.ac.uk:*.bham.ac.uk
   transport = remote_smtp
   route_list = * smtp.blueyonder.co.uk

This will catch any addresses whose domains match the "domains" list and 
route them through my ISP's server.

HTH,
Adam


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Re: Portable Ogg Vorbis player

[Stephan Seitz]

Hi!

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 07:15:10PM +, Antony Gelberg wrote:
I have just got home with an iRiver iHP-120.  Plays ogg out of the box.
Thanks for the infos. I'm interested in the iHP-120, too.

Maybe you could answer some questions I have:

a) Can I change the hard disk if I need a bigger one? ;-)
b) I presume you see the vorbis tags in the display when you're 
  playing. Since vorbis tags are utf-8 encoded I wonder which 
  charsets the iHP can display. I have many Japanese songs 
  which have kanji in the artist and title tags.
c) Can the iHP handle utf-8 file names? All my file names are utf-8 
  encoded.

Thanks for your answers.

Shade and sweet water!

	Stephan

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exec-shield patch and alsa

[Alexei Chetroi]

 Hi All,

 Have anybody tried exec-shield patch by Ingo Molnar? I've built it with
2.4.23 kernel and it works fine, but apparently there're some problems
with alsa mixer. When I'm trying to launch amixer or alsamixer it
dies with Segmentation Fault. Anything using OSS emulation mixer works
fine. Anyone having such problems?

 Kernel 2.4.23-5 from unstable, with lowlatency and preempt patches
applied.

 Regards


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Re: weird problem: X restarts if I click in an ssd'ed xterm

[Karsten M. Self]

on Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 05:01:45PM -0500, H. S. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Last night I tried to work from home on my university's network. First 
> the command "ssh -f [EMAIL PROTECTED] xterm -sl 2048 -fg beige" didn't work. 
> I got "can't open display" error message. So I did some google search 
> and tried "ssh -X [EMAIL PROTECTED] xterm -sl 2048 -fg beige". But when I 
> right-click on the xterm that is opened, surprisingly and unexpectedly X 
> restarts -- well actually I get logged out and the nvidia screen 
> splashed and I am given the Debian login screen again, just as if I had 
> logged out.
> 
> I am running 2.4.22 kernel on Sarge, compiled for the nvidia 4496 
> driver. I am not sure where to start debugging this thing, so if I am 
> missing any diagnostics I should have posted, just let me know. I will 
> post them next time I log into Debian, at present I am in Fedora -- I 
> *got* to get smoe work done, right? Can't keep on struggling Debain all 
> the time hee hee :))

I'd recommend using strace to trace the various programs you're running.
I suspect a windowmanager problem, but you're in a better position to
assess this.

Launching a raw X session (X or 'startx ') is likely going to be
helpful here.  Check logs (~/.xsession-errors, /var/log/XFree86.0.log),
as well.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
  Gentoo is one step on the long road from Debian to Debian.


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Re: cannot uninstall nedit

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:40:34PM -0700, Harshwardhan Nagaonkar wrote:
> And thus we see that Harshwardhan Nagaonkar said, :
> > I am having the same problems as the bugs:
> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=213325
> >http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=214808
> 
> >I couldn't find the link for nedit in the "editor" alternative when I 
> >tried to remove nedit manually. ("update-alternatives --remove "
> >
> >At the very least, I should be able to uninstall a program that I don't 
> >want! Anyone have any ideas? Both bugs are still open.
> 
> I used the patch at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=222493
> 
> for removing nedit manually (adapted the patch for nedit). Also, I 
> wanted to remove xfwm4 too; so that worked great.
> 
> Shouldn't these bugs be closed now?

No. Don't close the bug until the patch is applied to the official
package.

> If so, how can I help to make Sid more bug-free. If I am not the
> package maintainer, can I send an email saying that the patch is
> so-and-so and fix the bug?

You can always send an e-mail, certainly, but the bug should stay open
until the package maintainer responds to it and includes the fix.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: ide DMA on Intel 865PE

[Dobai-Pataky Balint]

On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 22:27, Rune Maagensen wrote:
>  using_dma=  0 (off)

try hdparm -i device, to see what modes are suported by hdd
and a  cat /proc/ide/piix for more info,

my optinion is you can safely turn on simple dma(hdparm -d1 device), you
can only worry about udma modes (-X66 ->-X69), that's the only way i can
get an irq timeout on the hdd.



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Re: Switch to Sarge lost browser link in Mutt

[John L. Fjellstad]

Thanasis Kinias wrote:

>> Which locale is this? I tried with Norwegian, and I don't see the
>> Norwegian letters. (this is konsole v1.2.3)
> 
> en_US.UTF-8 and fr_FR.UTF-8

Thanks. 

The reason I had problems is I used to test with LANG no_NO, instead of
no_NO.UTF-8.  I had this problems for months, and I keep seeing questions
about it on Norwegian Linux sites, so it's nice to finally find out how to
fix it.

So, thanks again. 

-- 
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes


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Impacte a sus Clientes con Regalos Corporativos y mucho más...

[ForGroups]

Title: Impacte a sus Cliente con Regalos Corporativos y mucho más...







  
   





  
   





 
   
  

 
   
  

 
   
  

 
   
  

 
   
  

 
   
  

 
  
  

  
 
  
   




 
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  PARA SUS CONFERENCIAS, JORNADAS, ANIVERSARIOS y PROMOCIONES 
  
  

  
 
  
   



 
  
  
   

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  Y LLAVERO EN MADERA Y ACERO · BOLIGRAFO LINTERNA · 
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  · BOLIGRAFO/RADIO · LLAVERO ACERO DOBLE · 
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En 
FORGROUP´S lo conseguirá 
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Re: locales and coding systems

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 06:50:47AM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
> ... locales not fully installed
> 
> This may explain why the return from a # locales command does not
> include a character set. So it seems I must reinstall locales to
> define a character set (en_US.UTF-8, for ex.).
> 
> $ sudo aptitude install locales
> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages
> E: Unable to correct dependencies, some packages cannot be installed
> E: Unable to resolve some dependencies!
> The following packages have unmet dependencies
> locals: Depends: glibc-2.2.5-11.5 which is a virtual package
> 
> I'm new to debian and so naturally this not entirely clear. What does
> "held" and "broken" mean? What is a "virtual package"? When I run #
> ldd locales, no executable is listed. Should it be?
> 
> Suspecting locales needs a different version of glibc, and knowing
> that one can install multiple versions of glibc, I try:

One cannot install multiple versions of glibc, at least not using the
Debian package management system. The "virtual package" bit means that
glibc-2.2.5-11.5 does not exist in its own right, but is a name that
another package claims to "provide": in this case, libc6 version
2.2.5-11.5 provides glibc-2.2.5-11.5. There are technical reasons why
this is useful as a dependency of locales.

What does 'dpkg -l libc6 locales' say?

No, 'ldd locales' should not say anything. There's no such program in
the locales package.

> $ sudo aptitude install glibc=2.2.5
> ...
> Unable to find version "2.2.5" for the package "glibc" 

You can't invent version numbers and expect them to work! :) Also, it's
"libc6" rather than "glibc".

> I can't find glibc at all in /lib, and fear the impossible: I simply
> don't have glibc. So run:
> 
> $ sudo aptitude install glibc
> ...
> The following packages have been held back: libc6
> 
> Again, what does "held back" mean here?

It's apt's notation for "not installing this because of some dependency
problems".

> I've got libc-2.2.5, but can't find libc6. I fear my continuing to
> flounder about like this will do some irreparable damage. 

You have libc6 or you wouldn't be able to run the programs you said you
ran looking for it. Stop worrying about that. Chances are that your
versions of libc6 and locales are just a bit out of sync, perhaps due to
a strange /etc/apt/sources.list or an unwise upgrade of parts of your
system to testing or unstable. 'dpkg -l libc6 locales' as requested
above should give more information.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Site packages

[Ken Gilmour]

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 08:07, Gaëtan CAPOU wrote:
> Gaëtan CAPOU wrote:
> 
> Please help me ,
> My server is down until 3 weeks, because i need kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4
> 
> Have you a debian install with a drivers broacom BC5700 ???
> 
you can get them from
http://www.broadcom.com/drivers/downloaddrivers.php


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need help on IP accounting - ipac-ng

[Christian Schnobrich]

Hello,

We're several people sharing the same DSL link. Currently, there are no
volume limitations (so noone ever bothered) but this is going to change
three months from now. Until then, I'd like to know how much traffic we
generate so that we may choose pick the right offer.
Furthermore, it might become important to keep track on how much traffic
every person in the house generates, so that it may be billed correctly
in case we exceed the free volume. So yes, this actually is an
accounting problem.

Now, I don't need help in IP accounting as such. Setting accounting
rules with iptables isn't too difficult.

However, I'm looking for an application that will gather the data, sum
it up nicely and just keeps track, even if the counters should be
involuntarily reset (like if the system crashes).

After an exhausting search, the only thing I found so far is ipac-ng.
Although it seems to be quite powerful, the documentation leaves much to
be desired. It is now set up and works -- though not as I'd like it. For
today, I give up trying.

But perhaps someone can tell me about another app that might suit my
needs?

cu,
Schnobs


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Richard Kimber]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:24:39 -0700
"Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Linux is a kernel.  I can almost guarantee that you've never, for
> example, discussed an implementation bug with a microsoft or apple
> kernel developer.
> 
> The gripe is about "linux" as though all of the thousands of
> applications that happen to run on linux are part of it.  But the
> reality is, they are separate projects.  One app may have great
> documentation; another may not.  Would you blame microsoft because some
> random application you bought from compusa had poor documentation?

You must be aware, surely, that there are two usages of 'Linux'.  One is
the one you have given, which is the original meaning.  But there is also
the general evolved man-or-woman-in-the-street usage that applies to the
distribution as a whole.  Of the two magazines in my local newsagent's
shop that have 'Linux' in the title, neither deals exclusively with the
kernel, and kernel-specific content is probably only a smallish proportion
of the total.  Does 'Debian Linux' only refer to the Debian version of the
kernel?  It is this second sense that was relevant to to the discussion
about the consumer.

- Richard.


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Colin Watson]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 10:43:28AM +, Richard Kimber wrote:
> You must be aware, surely, that there are two usages of 'Linux'.  One is
> the one you have given, which is the original meaning.  But there is also
> the general evolved man-or-woman-in-the-street usage that applies to the
> distribution as a whole.  Of the two magazines in my local newsagent's
> shop that have 'Linux' in the title, neither deals exclusively with the
> kernel, and kernel-specific content is probably only a smallish proportion
> of the total.  Does 'Debian Linux' only refer to the Debian version of the
> kernel?

The proper name for the distribution we release is not "Debian Linux",
but "Debian GNU/Linux". This is all over our web site so it's not as if
people can easily be confused.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Can't get jabber to start on installation

[Doctorcam]

I have managed to get jabber installed, and running it from the command
line seems to work fine, following the instructions in the 1.4.x
administration guide.

Trying to get dpkg to finish installing it, however, or (more
specifically) trying to run it from the init.d script is another matter.
The script runs fine up to this portion, and then dies:

if pidof $DAEMON > /dev/null 2>&1; then
   echo "$NAME."

I don't know much about bash scripting, but I assume that it tests for
the PID, to make sure that it exists.

In fact, it does (I stuck a few "echos" into the script to track
progress), though sometimes it endures past the failure of the script,
and sometimes it does not.  When it has endured, the owner was daemon,
and permissions were 755

/var/run/jabber has jabber:nogroup permissions 755

I assume there is something wrong with this, though it does not differ
significantly from the other directories in /var/run.

I could use some help with this.

TIA

Cam



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Re: dissapearing sound

[Nicos Gollan]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:53:36 -0600
techlists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> and if not, how do I re-initialize sound without restarting KDE or
> rebooting?

If it's just an arts problem, it might help to open the "Sound
System" control panel, set the Sound I/O method (Sound I/O tab) to "no
audio", apply and then set it back to something useful and apply again.

-- 
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Spam? (was: Nyhedsbrevet Erhverv & Fritid (uge 50))

[Nicos Gollan]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:24:21 +0100
"Nyhedsbasen.dk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Kære bruger!
> 
> Der er netop udsendt en ny udgave af nyhedsbrevet ERHVERV & FRITID.
> 
> Da du har valgt ikke at modtage det i HTML-format, sendes i stedet en
> henvisning til hvor du kan se nyhedsbrevet i sin fulde udfoldelse:
> 
> http://www.nyhedsbasen.dk/nyhedsbrev/erhvervfritid
> [...]

Is this spam? I can normally recognize it in any language, but this one
somehow eludes me. I would say yes due to the really obvious links, but
then again I would think it was very inefficient to spam in Danish for
the relatively low number of people who understand it.

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Re: Portable Ogg Vorbis player

[Antony Gelberg]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 11:06:07PM -0600, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 13:15, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've been looking for a portable MP3 player for a while.  That is to
> > say, one that plays .ogg files.  I have about 750 CD's, of which about
> > 200 are ripped in ogg and I'm not going back.  :)
> > 
> > I have just got home with an iRiver iHP-120.  Plays ogg out of the box.
> > And also mp3, wma, wav, asf (as if) for the masochists amongst us.
> > USB 2.0 (which seems very fast - I'm rsync'ing my music folder with the
> > player and the speed files are going by at looks like about 3-5MB/sec).
> > It can also record, has an FM radio, and looks like the nuts.
> 
> Thanks for the info. :) Your post actually got me into looking for an
> ogg player again. (Been meaning to get one for quite a while now.) I
> looked at the iHP-120 but it was a bit too expensive for me. I then
> looked at the Neuros 128MB Player (http://www.neuros-audio.com) and
> found a much more agreeable price. The 128 MB player is $99 (US), or you
> can get it with the 20 GB HD 'backpack' for $229.
> 
> It apparently supports ogg vorbis, mp3, and wma, as well as ENCODING to
> mp3 from the built in microphone port. Overall, it looks like a
> relatively even match for the player you recommended. I ordered mine
> today but it's on backorder so I don't really know when it'll come in.
> As soon as it does come in I'll post my experiences on here.

That looks like a good player.  FWIW, I paid £308 for my player,
which was in the shop at £360.  But this was in Tottanham Court Road,
London's hi-fi mecca, with about 30 shops along one street.  Not hard
to do some negotiating.  :)

I'd like to have paid less, but this is "rip-off Britain", and it's
coming up to holiday time, so I just said fuggit.

A


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Re: need help on IP accounting - ipac-ng

[Dobai-Pataky Balint]

what you need is a mysql server and a mysqclient, and cron set up to
burst the gathered data to into the mysqserver.

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 11:39, Christian Schnobrich wrote:

> However, I'm looking for an application that will gather the data, sum
> it up nicely and just keeps track, even if the counters should be
> involuntarily reset (like if the system crashes).
> 
> After an exhausting search, the only thing I found so far is ipac-ng.
> Although it seems to be quite powerful, the documentation leaves much to
> be desired. It is now set up and works -- though not as I'd like it. For
> today, I give up trying.
> 
> But perhaps someone can tell me about another app that might suit my
> needs?
> 
> cu,
> Schnobs
> 
> 
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Dell TrueMobile Router and Debian

[Jerome BENOIT]

Hello List,

currently I have a Dell TrueMobile 1184 router
which runs with modified Linux kernel provided by Dell:
I wonder if there is a way to install Debian on such a machine
in order to update the kernel and install personnlized stuff
rather than useless documentations:
any idea ?
Thanks,
Jerome
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Re: Portable Ogg Vorbis player

[Antony Gelberg]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:52:18AM +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 07:15:10PM +, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> >I have just got home with an iRiver iHP-120.  Plays ogg out of the box.
> 
> Thanks for the infos. I'm interested in the iHP-120, too.
> 
> Maybe you could answer some questions I have:
> 
> a) Can I change the hard disk if I need a bigger one? ;-)

Don't know.  The guy in the shop said yes, but I take that with a
truckful of salt.

> b) I presume you see the vorbis tags in the display when you're 
>   playing. Since vorbis tags are utf-8 encoded I wonder which 
>   charsets the iHP can display. I have many Japanese songs 
>   which have kanji in the artist and title tags.
> c) Can the iHP handle utf-8 file names? All my file names are utf-8 
>   encoded.

As a typical Brit, I have absolutely no idea.

> Thanks for your answers.

Don't thank me, I was most unhelpful.  :)  You could try
http://www.iriver.com/community/discussion_new.asp?mode=Total.

A


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Re: My email is rejected by some sites

[TR]

My isp killed me again, when I tried to email to my self a test after
changing exim.conf as indicated So, let me ask a couple of questions:

> * Thanasis Kinias ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031211 13:03]:
> > # For AOL...
> > 
> > aol:
> > driver = domainlist
> > domains = aol.com
> > transport = remote_smtp
> > route_list = * smtp.west.cox.net

Is there a space between the * and smtp?

> Well, really you'll just need one such router, with the bad domains
> listed on that "domains = " line.  Me, I'd use a filename there and
> that way be able to just edit the file whenever I felt like it instead
> of mucking around in exim.conf.  As an added bonus, making changes to
> this external file wouldn't require the server to reload to
> incorporate them.

What is the correct way?
" domains = /home/tony/black_list  "
is for example right?


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Problem with lxdialog (make menuconfig) and ncurses

[Vincent Lefevre]

I wanted to compile a kernel, but when doing "make menuconfig", I got:

There seems to be a problem with the lxdialog companion utility which is
built prior to running Menuconfig.  Usually this is an indicator that you
have upgraded/downgraded your ncurses libraries and did not remove the 
old ncurses header file(s) in /usr/include or /usr/include/ncurses.

It is VERY important that you have only one set of ncurses header files
and that those files are properly version matched to the ncurses libraries 
installed on your machine.
[...]

What is this problem?

I have:

greux:~> lg /usr/include/ncurses*
lrwxrwxrwx18 2003-11-20 15:41:09 /usr/include/ncurses.h -> curses.h
-rw-r--r--1 1559 2003-11-07 20:26:36 /usr/include/ncurses_dll.h

from libncurses5-dev (unstable). Isn't it correct?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA


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Re: Dumb question (was: LSI Fusion MPT ?)

[Adam Garside]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 09:57:10AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thanks, it works great.
> 
> BTW, why doesn't Debian include all this stuff in its install ?
> It's not like we're short of space on the CD, right ?

True, but Debian keeps the stable installer static, only backporting
security patches, etc. The ordering of packages on each CD is dictated
by the 'popularity-contest' package (apt-get install popularity-contest
if you wish to take part.)

> 
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 07:31:58AM -0500, Adam Garside wrote:
> > 
> > You might try the install ISO at the following location:
> > 
> > http://oregonstate.edu/~kveton/debian/
> > 
> > It is Dell specific and should work for your machine. If not, directions
> > are provided for building your own custom ISO.
> > 
> > -- asg
> 
> 
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> 
>

-- asg


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Richard Kimber]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:55:32 +
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The proper name for the distribution we release is not "Debian Linux",
> but "Debian GNU/Linux". This is all over our web site so it's not as if
> people can easily be confused.

Indeed. But I wasn't intending to use the formal name, only a phrase that
might commonly be used in the contexts to which I was referring.

- Richard.
-- 
Richard Kimber
http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Wendell Cochran]

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:59:15 -0700
From: Paul E Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[SNIP]
>I started to compose a long diatribe on the need for more action in 
>documentation when I thought to look to see whether there is a Debian 
>list on documentation. There is such a list. I am subscribing to it.


So far, fine.  

This thread concerns both (a) proper documentation of programs -- &
also (b) translation into clear English for the notional Aunt Tilly.

That suggests need for a list on finding the right words & putting
them in the right order, but even Debian has limits.

Start with Strunk & White, & work upward.

Wendell Cochran
West Seattle





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Re: Problem with lxdialog (make menuconfig) and ncurses

[Andreas Janssen]

Hello

Vincent Lefevre (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> I wanted to compile a kernel, but when doing "make menuconfig", I got:
> 
> There seems to be a problem with the lxdialog companion utility which
> is
> built prior to running Menuconfig.  Usually this is an indicator that
> you have upgraded/downgraded your ncurses libraries and did not remove
> the old ncurses header file(s) in /usr/include or
> /usr/include/ncurses.
> 
> It is VERY important that you have only one set of ncurses header
> files and that those files are properly version matched to the ncurses
> libraries installed on your machine.
> [...]
> 
> What is this problem?
> 
> I have:
> 
> greux:~> lg /usr/include/ncurses*
> lrwxrwxrwx18 2003-11-20 15:41:09 /usr/include/ncurses.h ->
> curses.h
> -rw-r--r--1 1559 2003-11-07 20:26:36
> /usr/include/ncurses_dll.h
> 
> from libncurses5-dev (unstable). Isn't it correct?

Check if the ncurses and ncurses-dev packages have the same version
number.

best regards
Andreas Janssen


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Andreas Janssen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC801674
Registered Linux User #267976


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Re: nagios

[Bill Goudie]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 02:50:53PM -, Lee, Keith wrote:
> I have setup everything for just a ping to a wireless connection only
> (I think) The configuration passes the sanity test.
>  
> The log file says that nagios has started and gives a pid.
>  
> when I use ps -A the pid is not there.

In addition to what Karsten suggested, try running "nagios -v
/etc/nagios/nagios.cfg"

> Any suggestions for alternate monitors?
> My managers request is:
> "I'm looking for is SNMP monitoring as well as PINGing, plus nice graphs."

A good list of monitoring and trending tools can be found at:

  http://www.rrdtool.com/rrdworld/index.html

Nagios has suited my needs for monitoring a couple services so I have
explored any other tools.  

As for trending analysis tools, I've used smokeping and cricket.  If you
only want to track latency and network connectivity, smokeping is great.
It is simple, easy to setup, and the graphs are nice.  Examples of
smokeping can be found from the link above. If you would like to gather
and report on data from a variety of sources, give cricket a try.
Cricket allows for you to easily setup lots of similar devices and
collect data from SNMP, files, and executables.  If you would like to
view some cricket sites follow:

  http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl:cricket/grapher.cgi

-- 
All true wisdom is found on T-shirts.


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Re: Spam? (was: Nyhedsbrevet Erhverv & Fritid (uge 50))

[Björn Lindström]

Nicos Gollan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:24:21 +0100
> "Nyhedsbasen.dk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Kære bruger!
>> 
>> Der er netop udsendt en ny udgave af nyhedsbrevet ERHVERV & FRITID.
>> 
>> Da du har valgt ikke at modtage det i HTML-format, sendes i stedet en
>> henvisning til hvor du kan se nyhedsbrevet i sin fulde udfoldelse:
>> 
>> http://www.nyhedsbasen.dk/nyhedsbrev/erhvervfritid
>> [...]
>
> Is this spam?

Yes.

-- 
Björn Lindström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bkhl.elektrubadur.se/


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Re: yet another NVIDIA problem (4496)

[John Peter]

Paul Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 03:24:14PM +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
 

I've just bought a new GeForce 5600 (Gainward Ultra 780 TV/DVI) and for that
occasion I've upgraded my nvidia drivers to 4496-10. after upgrading, X
wouldn't start (error loading 'nvidia') unless I modprobe 'nvidia'
manually, and then it loads, but with an error:
I've googled for it but only found some kernel mailing list entries which I
didn't understand. as a workaround I've added nvidia to '/etc/modules' but
I was wondering if this problem can be solved.
   

nVidia has actively demonstrated they don't care.  

Go return that video card and exchange it for an ATI Radeon, for which
there are better drivers, as well as open source drivers for the
Radeon that Just Work, and work way better than nVidia's proprietary
hack.
 

I use the NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-4496-pkg2.run installer from NVidea and
just had to execute their instructions, by the letter and everything 
runs OK.

Paul, I don't have a personal experience with ATI Radeon video cards on
Linux, but I have been reading a lot of mails from peopple having problems
with it - this doesn't seem such a linear issue...
John



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How to read package change logs before install

[Lou Losee]

Ok - another elementary (I hope) apt question:

1)Is there any way to read the change-log associated with a package
without either downloading the package or installing the package?

Typically to see the change log, readme, etc, I download the package and
install it and if it isn't correct then remove it.  Alternatively, I use
APT-listchanges to see the change log before actually installing, but
saying no at that point forces the cancellation of all installs not just
the one I don't want after reading the changes.

TIA,
Lou


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documentation Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Alvin Oga]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Wendell Cochran wrote:

> This thread concerns both (a) proper documentation of programs -- &
> also (b) translation into clear English for the notional Aunt Tilly.
> 
> That suggests need for a list on finding the right words & putting
> them in the right order, but even Debian has limits.

manuals is NOT an issue for "aunt tilly"

most "aunt tilly" i know, have not read or even gonna bother reading
the manual ... where o where do i start in the manuals  i know,
i'll invite wendell to dinner :-) he'll fix it !!

( windows look-n-feel is assumed --> kde/gnome + openoffice )

they just want to know ...
- why does it not print anymore ??
- why does it not send/receive emails anymore ??
- why does it not boot anymore ?? 
( i just hit the power switch yesterday cause i was in a hurry )
- ooops.. i erased a file i didnt mean to ... help... now please..

all else is non-issue for the majority of "aunt tilly's" world

they are not gonna look up the "manuals" for
is it a bash problem, is it a printcap problem is it
a power cord problem, is it a "i forgot the caps lock problem"
vs not caring about it is a glibc or zlib problem
or that ssh has a exploit or the kernel has an exploit

- it simply gotta work .. flawlessly for months and months
that approaches a year... than you have a happy convert
and much much more willing to go the next step and do
periodic updates ...

-- changing her box daily with apt-get is just
gonna confuse um

-- they dont even run window-update daily now
which it too can be automated ... but they dont

-- updates is NOT an issue for them.. even if it
should be

- if you have to do updates .. at least do it from "stable"
and do tell them ... "its all 100% automated like the other big
boyz in washington"

- non techies do NOT like a moving/crashing target ...
- they just want it to work

- guess you can add more things for the braver folks
- i want to play/burn my dvds
- i want to record "lucy" on the tv and play it when i want
- i want to use it as my "home office" email for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and have  http://www.aunt-tilly.com

- all else is again non-issue for them ... until the machine crashes
  for one reason or another and hopefully not due to a cracker
  or little joe/sally that happens to sneak online and play and broke 
  it by mistake

c ya
alvin


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Re: Spam? (was: Nyhedsbrevet Erhverv & Fritid (uge 50))

[Henrik Christian Grove]

Nicos Gollan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:24:21 +0100
> "Nyhedsbasen.dk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Kære bruger!
> > 
> > Der er netop udsendt en ny udgave af nyhedsbrevet ERHVERV & FRITID.
> > 
> > Da du har valgt ikke at modtage det i HTML-format, sendes i stedet en
> > henvisning til hvor du kan se nyhedsbrevet i sin fulde udfoldelse:
> > 
> > http://www.nyhedsbasen.dk/nyhedsbrev/erhvervfritid
> > [...]
> 
> Is this spam? 

Yes, and one of the most annoying forms of it, an announcement of a new
edition of a newsletter.

> I can normally recognize it in any language, but this one
> somehow eludes me. 

For people that doesn't speak danish I suppose this is hard to recognize
as spam. I've included a quick translation of the above quoted lines
(except the URL) below, in case anybody wants to improve their skills at
recognizing danish spam.

> then again I would think it was very inefficient to spam in Danish for
> the relatively low number of people who understand it.

Spamming international mailing list in danish is probably very
inefficient. 

- translation begin -
Dear user!

A new edition of the BUSINESS & SPARE TIME newsletter has just been posted.

As you have chosen not to receive it in HTML-format, a link is sent
instead to where you can see it in its full display.
- translation end -

.Henrik

-- 
Henrik Christian Grove
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Student of Mathematics at the University of Copenhagen


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Re: Switch to Sarge lost browser link in Mutt

[Thanasis Kinias]

scripsit John L. Fjellstad:
> Thanasis Kinias wrote:
> 
> >> Which locale is this? I tried with Norwegian, and I don't see the
> >> Norwegian letters. (this is konsole v1.2.3)
> > 
> > en_US.UTF-8 and fr_FR.UTF-8
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> The reason I had problems is I used to test with LANG no_NO, instead of
> no_NO.UTF-8.  I had this problems for months, and I keep seeing questions
> about it on Norwegian Linux sites, so it's nice to finally find out how to
> fix it.

I'm glad it was easy to fix!

-- 
Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus.
.
Thanasis Kinias
tkinias at asu.edu
Doctoral Student, Department of History
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A.


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Re: My email is rejected by some sites

[Thanasis Kinias]

scripsit TR:
 
> > * Thanasis Kinias ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031211 13:03]:
> > > # For AOL...
> > > 
> > > aol:
> > > driver = domainlist
> > > domains = aol.com
> > > transport = remote_smtp
> > > route_list = * smtp.west.cox.net
> 
> Is there a space between the * and smtp?

Yes, there is a space.

> > Well, really you'll just need one such router, with the bad domains
> > listed on that "domains = " line.  Me, I'd use a filename there and
> > that way be able to just edit the file whenever I felt like it instead
> > of mucking around in exim.conf.  As an added bonus, making changes to
> > this external file wouldn't require the server to reload to
> > incorporate them.
> 
> What is the correct way?
> " domains = /home/tony/black_list  "
> is for example right?

Not sure.  Vineet's the one who suggested that bit.  I don't find any
reference to an external file in the documentation.  Are you using exim3
or exim4?  (I have exim3, i.e. exim package from Sarge.)  Maybe what
Vineet's describing is an exim4 feature?

-- 
Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus.
.
Thanasis Kinias
tkinias at asu.edu
Doctoral Student, Department of History
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A.


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OT: Letter to TigerDirect

[Kent West]

OFF-TOPIC

Perhaps I have no business posting this here . . . .

I've done business with TigerDirect in the past, but recently they've 
added a pro-MS banner to their home page. I wrote this note to them, and 
would encourage other Debianistas who have done business with them to 
make your feelings known to them also. Note, I realize many (most?) of 
you aren't anti-Microsoft (unlike myself), but are rather pro-Debian, 
but the banner just seems -- wrong, somehow, for freedom-loving folks. 
I'm probably over-reacting (and hopefully this message won't get me in a 
bunch of killfiles), but it just seems like I should make you folks 
aware of this.

/Kent

Message to TigerDirect follows:

I've often come to TigerDirect as one of my first on-line shopping 
stops, and have been happy with my previous experiences with 
TigerDirect, but lately I've noticed that on your home page 
(http://www.tigerdirect.com) you have emblazoned across the top of the 
page this message: "TigerDirect recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP."

As someone who has an _extreme_ distaste for all things Microsoft, I 
find this message offensive. I realize you must sell Microsoft products 
to stay in business, but to openly recommend their products just makes 
you seem too cozy with MS. It actually crosses my mind when I see this 
message that Microsoft has probably pressured TigerDirect into making 
this statement, since I've always held TigerDirect in high regard, 
thinking you to be more interested in meeting the needs of your 
customers rather than in hawking a particular vendor's product.

Anyway, the short of it is that while this won't keep me from doing 
business with TigerDirect, it does reduce your value in my opinion, and 
whereas previously I probably would have chosen TigerDirect to make my 
next purchase, I've already decided that my next purchase will not be 
TigerDirect. There are other reasons for this besides this pro-Microsoft 
banner, but I thought you should be aware that the pro-MS banner was a 
significant consideration in this decision.

Thanks for taking time to read this rant.

--
Kent
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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 at 10:43 GMT, Richard Kimber penned:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:24:39 -0700 "Monique Y. Herman"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Linux is a kernel.  I can almost guarantee that you've never, for
>> example, discussed an implementation bug with a microsoft or apple
>> kernel developer.
>> 
>> The gripe is about "linux" as though all of the thousands of
>> applications that happen to run on linux are part of it.  But the
>> reality is, they are separate projects.  One app may have great
>> documentation; another may not.  Would you blame microsoft because
>> some random application you bought from compusa had poor
>> documentation?
> 
> You must be aware, surely, that there are two usages of 'Linux'.  One
> is the one you have given, which is the original meaning.  But there
> is also the general evolved man-or-woman-in-the-street usage that
> applies to the distribution as a whole.  Of the two magazines in my
> local newsagent's shop that have 'Linux' in the title, neither deals
> exclusively with the kernel, and kernel-specific content is probably
> only a smallish proportion of the total.  Does 'Debian Linux' only
> refer to the Debian version of the kernel?  It is this second sense
> that was relevant to to the discussion about the consumer.
> 

You're right, of course.  Then again, I've heard stores advertising that
they're selling "Linux 7.0" -- meaning RedHat, I assume.  And that's
*definitely* not right.  Then again, again, when I say I enjoy using
linux, I don't generally mean "the fact that the linux kernel is at the
base of the OS," even though I do love being able to recompile it.

I guess what I was trying to get at above is that, yes, there are
packages whose docs are weak, but the great thing about the linux
(including apps that run on it) community is that, even if the docs are
weak, I can generally find someone who can help me.  Sometimes that
someone is even the developer, which is an awesome thing.  I mean, when
I was trying to figure out procmail, I poked around at the man pages,
then did a google search on procmailrc examples and found oodles of what
I was looking for, with more variety of purpose than I would ever find
in any app's standard documentation.  Sure, there's no guarantee that I
would find such a thing for all apps, but it still suits the purpose
much of the time.
-- 
monique


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kde 3.1 panel - Where is it?

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

After having messed up something in my testing installation I had to reinstall
many (mainly graphical libraries and the likes) packages. Among them I found the
kde 3.1 release which I installed together with kdmUnfortunately, the kde panel
doesn't show up but only a very poor menu bar at the top of the screen.

In what  **testing** package is kde 3.1 panel in?
Ciao
Vittorio


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Quickie question before reinstall

[Paul Schwartz]

I found reference to the other installation kernel flavors on the Woody CD.

Is there a way to install another one of those kernels [vanilla, bf2.4] 
without doing a reinstall?  Does anyone know which is likely to include 
the agpgart module that supports the i810 video chipset?

Thanks

Paul Schwartz



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My Debian box can't connect Internet

[Stephen Liu]

Hi folks,

My Debian box can't connect Internet, Broadband connected.  

# ifconfig
showed connecting ISP

I played around with following files without a solution;

# cat /etc/network/ifstate 
lo=lo
eth0=eth0

# cat /etc/network/interfaces 
# /etc/network/interfaces -- configuration
file for ifup(8), ifdown(8) 
# The loopback interface 
auto lo 
iface lo inet loopback 
# The first network card - this entry was created during the Debian
installationauto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

# cat /etc/network/spoof-protect
LOCAL_IPS="127.0.0.1/8"
LOCAL_IFACES="eth0 eth1 ppp0"
(Remark: having tried;
#LOCAL_IPS="127.0.0.1/8"
#LOCAL_IFACES="eth0 eth1 ppp0"
LOCAL_IFACES="eth0 ppp0"

After each change made
# /etc/init.d/networking restart 
Reconfiguring network interfaces: done)

# cat /etc/network/interfaces.dpkg-new 
# (no output, an empty file)

# cat /etc/network/options 
ip_forward=no 
spoofprotect=yes
syncookies=no
(having tried;
ip_forward=yes
spoofprotect=no
syncookies=yes)

# ping -c 3 www.yahoo.com
ping: unknown host www.yahoo.com

# /etc/init.d/iptables stop
Aborting iptables load: unknown ruleset, "inactive".

iptables has not been configured yet

Kindly advise how to fix the problem.

Thanks in advance.

B.R.
Stephen Liu


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Re: a modest proposal (was: Linux is not for consumers!)

[csj]

On 11. December 2003 at 5:28PM -0600,
Lucas Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Richard Kimber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[...]

> > This may be true of some; but even reasonably intelligent
> > users with quite a lot of experience can come unstuck in
> > those areas with which they are not familiar, simply because
> > the documentation is often so poor.
> 
> I have an idea, then, for people at the level you're speaking
> of.  Specifically, I'm talking about people between hacker
> level and Aunt Tilley, those who can use Debian but frequently
> struggle with the lack of documentation.

Aunt Tilley probably doesn't want documentation but help files.
I consider a man page or info doc that documents all possible
--options as good documentation already (although I can recall
one recent instance where I had trouble finding the right man
page: the documentation I was looking for was in man Z rather
than man X!).

But there are users who would think anything short of tooltips or
balloon help is poor documentation.  Should they be the consumers
of a documentation project?

[...]


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Re: fun stuff - dvd - 802.11g

[David Z Maze]

Alvin Oga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> i've just gotten the distro to recognize the Netgear WG311 pci 
> 802.11g card  ( have a linksys card too but havent tested it yet )
>
>   - note that its "g" 54Mbps  ... vs the slower 802.11[a/b]

Nitpicking, 802.11a is also advertised as 54mbps, but runs on a
different frequency than 802.11b/g.  So on a mixed b/g network, you
can wind up with the g clients slowing down to b rates to accomodate
the slower hosts; since 802.11a runs on a separate frequency, it
always runs at full speed.  I also know there are some
interoperability problems with 802.11g (I had trouble earlier this
summer trying to use a Dell-brand 802.11b card vs. some big-name
802.11g APs), but those might be cleaned up with newer hardware.

The downside of 802.11a under Linux is that

>   - i got it working with the athros drivers from madwifi
>   http://www.sourceforge.net/madwifi

there's only one manufacturer of 802.11a chipsets (Atheros), and one
driver for it, which works well enough for most purposes but isn't
DFSG-free.

>   - now the trick is to setup another box just like it
>   and the two machines should be able to talk to each other
>   over 802.11g  ...

I don't know whether things besides 802.11b support "ad-hoc"
networking.  But access points are comparatively cheap these days, and
they pretty much all advertise 802.11g support.

>   - not that WEP is NOT secure ... ( its been cracked )

Google-search for "end to end argument"; this doesn't concern me
terribly (though my housemates think I shouldn't have a completely
open 802.11b AP).

> and the other fun stuff... i just bought my first dvd .. w/out having
> a player or system setup ...
>   - played w/ ogle, xine, mplayer, few others..
>
>   - after a few hours of fiddling ( installing various packages )
>
>   - "dvd player" is now working .. so now i need a new set of
>   real speakers and real audio amps

Which software package did you wind up using?

-- 
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://people.debian.org/~dmaze/
"Theoretical politics is interesting.  Politicking should be illegal."
-- Abra Mitchell


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How to login as ROOT as start

[Stephen Liu]

Hi folks,

How can I login as ROOT after booting at 'Desktop Manager" popup.  I am
only allowed to login as USER both KDE and GNOME.

Thanks in advance.

B.R.
Stephen Liu


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Re: Problem with lxdialog (make menuconfig) and ncurses

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2003-12-12 13:54:19 +0100, Andreas Janssen wrote:
> Check if the ncurses and ncurses-dev packages have the same version
> number.

There is no ncurses package. The libraries (/usr/lib/libncurses.a,
/usr/lib/libncurses.so) come from libncurses5-dev too. Otherwise:

greux:~> dpkg -l | grep ncurses
ii  libncurses55.3.20030719-4 Shared libraries for terminal handling
ii  libncurses5-de 5.3.20030719-4 Developer's libraries and docs for ncurses
ii  libncursesw5   5.3.20030719-4 Shared libraries for terminal handling (wide
ii  mtr-tiny   0.54-1 Full screen ncurses traceroute tool
ii  ncurses-base   5.3.20030719-4 Descriptions of common terminal types
ii  ncurses-bin5.3.20030719-4 Terminal-related programs and man pages
ii  ncurses-term   5.3.20030719-4 Additional terminal type definitions

-- 
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validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA


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Re: Bootup Freezes

[Thomas H. George]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 04:27:53PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 at 19:11 GMT, Thomas H. George penned:
> >> 
> >> You might try booting a few times from a Knoppix CD, just to
> >> eliminate hardware problems.
> >> 
> >> I started having similar problems a few weeks ago. I finally tried
> >> Knoppix, and found it froze the box also, and after some more
> >> diagnosis (including swapping out the processor) came to the
> >> conclusion that my mobo had turned south on me. But for quite a while
> >> I thought it was software-related; it "felt" software-related.
> >> 
> >> -- Kent
> >> 
> > Interesting.  Looking back in my log book I find I installed a new
> > motherboard and cpu (Albatron KX400-8XV and Athlon XP2000) on Nov. 7th
> > and kernel-source-0.6.0-test9 on Nov. 9th.   Installed
> > module-init-install on Nov. 11th as this was needed to load the ehci
> > module.  The first note of a boot up problem was on Nov. 12th.
> > 
> > Could there be a motherboard problem?  I have used Albatron KX400
> > series motherboards in other computers with no problems but,
> > interestingly, I recall seeing a message regarding an unknown
> > southbridge when booting up from the bbc-2.1 cd.
> > 
> > Tom
> 
> It could be.  I would go ahead and try the above suggestion of running
> Knoppix on it for a few days.  If that stays stable, then it's probably
> the kernel.  There's a reason that the 2.6 line of kernels is still
> called "test".  If you want solid performance, you should stick to 2.4.
> 
> (You meant 2.6, not 0.6, right?)
> 
> -- 
> monique
> 
OK, I downloaded Knoppis and will try it for a few days.  And yes, I did
mean 2.6, not 0.6.  I understood the implication of "test" and had
already reverted to 2.4.22 and the problems continued.  In fact, last
night the shutdown seemed completely normal but this morning bootup
halted with a "general protection fault"!  Again, booting from bbc-2.1
and running e2fsck -f on all partitions found nothing following which
the system booted to 2.4.22 with no problems.

tom

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hi !

[$BI[;\(B $B9((B]

Visit us at http://trycomp.swee.to/THINK/
(B
(BThank you.
(B
(B_
$BM'C#$H(B24$B;~4V%[%C%H%i%$%s!V(BMSN $B%a%C%;%s%8%c!http://messenger.msn.co.jp 
(B
(B
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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Nate Duehr]

David Palmer. wrote:

Or the assumption by the more experienced, who know that that your 
problem was far enough advanced that if you skipped the "basics" like 
filesystem manipulation you'd better be ready to fire up "man chown" 
yourself and back up and ask THAT question first?  :-)

Sorry, Nate, this doesn't apply.
There is no set routine to what you learn first in Debian, or any other
branch of Linux.
File system manipulation? I wouldn't know the first thing about it.
I don't want Nautilus or Konqueror, that sort of GUI system is too much
like windows, and not what I came here for.
How is a newbie supposed to know what to learn first? There's no
discernable learning structure.
Heh, now my bias is showing, that's an interesting point you make.

I have taken numerous computer courses over the years, all the way back 
to programming classes in the mid-80's and they always start with what I 
would call "the basics"... how to get around the system, where things 
are located, how to manipulate files, etc... THEN they show you how to 
get applications going.  Notice that many of the books you're reading 
also tend to follow this path too.

It's kinda funny to realize that many people learn this stuff second.  I 
can't imagine how hard it would be to learn in that order, seems VERY 
difficult to me.  It'd be like being plopped in a car already doing 70 
MPH on a busy freeway to be taught to learn how to drive.  I'd think 
that learning where all the controls are, then learning how to start the 
vehicle, etc... FIRST would be more helpful in the long run.  :-)

I understand now better where you're coming from, though.  Very interesting.

Have a nice weekend, I learned something from this discussion this week, 
and that's very good!  :-)

Nate, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: kde 3.1 panel - Where is it?

[Andreas Janssen]

Hello

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> After having messed up something in my testing installation I had to
> reinstall many (mainly graphical libraries and the likes) packages.
> Among them I found the kde 3.1 release which I installed together with
> kdmUnfortunately, the kde panel doesn't show up but only a very poor
> menu bar at the top of the screen.
>  
> In what  **testing** package is kde 3.1 panel in?

The KDE panel is called kicker, and that should also be the package
name.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[Wayne Topa]

Monique Y. Herman([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> 
> I understand that you're trying to better the list, and I appreciate
> that, but your attitude is a total turnoff.  Have you ever heard the
> saying, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?  i
>
> If you
> want to influence people, craft your sentences so that they garner
> respect, not derision.

I find that comment applies more to your posts the it does to Karsten.

I believe you are rather new to this list.  I have been on d-u for
over 6 years and find that Karsten is a big contributor, both in
Technical expertise and on-target criticism, and have no problem with
his attitude whatsoever. You might feel that way because you are a
contributor the the OT threads, which I can't check here, as I have
deleted them all as they grow and have no wish to check the archives.

The threads he mentions have been way OT and IMHO do not belong on d-u.
He gets my vote for sargent-at-arms.

:-) HTH, YMMV, HAND :-)

-- 
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official testing jigdo files

[Jukka Salmi]

Hi,

where have the official jigdo files for sarge gone? They used to be on
http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/jigdo-area/ (they are linked
from http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ ("Available images")), but I get
HTTP 404...

Jukka

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$ ((RANDOM%6)) || rm -rf ~


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Re: official testing jigdo files

[Colin Watson]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 05:58:57PM +0100, Jukka Salmi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> where have the official jigdo files for sarge gone? They used to be on
> http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/testing/jigdo-area/ (they are linked
> from http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/ ("Available images")), but I get
> HTTP 404...

gluck was affected by the recent server compromise, and has not yet been
completely restored. Work is in progress.

-- 
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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[Colin Watson]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:15:17AM -0500, Wayne Topa wrote:
> Monique Y. Herman([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> > I understand that you're trying to better the list, and I appreciate
> > that, but your attitude is a total turnoff.  Have you ever heard the
> > saying, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?  i
> >
> > If you want to influence people, craft your sentences so that they
> > garner respect, not derision.
> 
> I find that comment applies more to your posts the it does to Karsten.
> 
> I believe you are rather new to this list.  I have been on d-u for
> over 6 years and find that Karsten is a big contributor, both in
> Technical expertise and on-target criticism, and have no problem with
> his attitude whatsoever. You might feel that way because you are a
> contributor the the OT threads, which I can't check here, as I have
> deleted them all as they grow and have no wish to check the archives.

I agree with Monique here. I like Karsten, and his posts are almost
invariably accurate and often very helpful. However, they make
consistent and significant use of the passive voice to convert opinion
into fact ("foo is deprecated", "bar is considered incorrect", that kind
of phrasing) and frequently come across to me as lecturing. Several
times in the last couple of weeks alone I've found myself thinking "hey,
that was a curt reply; if I'd been the target of that I'd have felt hard
done by".

Possibly this is an artifact of his rant-o-matics, which are written in
an essay form whose register I find much too high for replies to
innocent posters on a mailing list. I'd be perfectly willing to admit
that I occasionally sound similar myself when I get fed up with
something, but I try to keep my tone more informal and friendly where I
can and would appreciate being told when I'm too high-handed.

I'm not new to this list, so I hope that I'm immune to that particular
ad hominem.

> The threads he mentions have been way OT and IMHO do not belong on d-u.

I fully agree with the sentiment, just not the approach.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: How to login as ROOT as start

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Stephen Liu:
> 
> How can I login as ROOT after booting at 'Desktop Manager" popup.  I am
> only allowed to login as USER both KDE and GNOME.

"Hi.  I bought this really neat gun yesterday, and now I'd like to try
it out.  Problem is, I can't get the ammunition into the thing.  Can
somebody help me out?"

Login as user (either kde or gnome or $blah), then type "su -" and
supply the root password when asked.  There are very good reasons for
doing it this way, and very good reasons why not to do it the other
way.  See groups.google.com if you're wondering about that.


-- 
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(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
- -


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Re: Quickie question before reinstall

[Kent West]

Paul Schwartz wrote:
I found reference to the other installation kernel flavors on the Woody CD.

Is there a way to install another one of those kernels [vanilla, bf2.4] 
without doing a reinstall?  Does anyone know which is likely to include 
the agpgart module that supports the i810 video chipset?

Thanks

Paul Schwartz



  apt-cache search kernel-image

should give you a list of pre-compiled kernels that your system knows 
about that are available for installation. You can also grab kernels 
from other sources and manually install them, or grab the source and 
compile/install in that fashion. I'm not sure which kernel will be the 
most likely to give you support for i810 agpgart, but I'd suspect it'd 
need to be one of the newer ones, such as a 2.4 series kernel.

--
Kent
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Re: Quickie question before reinstall

[Andreas Janssen]

Hello

Paul Schwartz (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> I found reference to the other installation kernel flavors on the
> Woody CD.
> 
> Is there a way to install another one of those kernels [vanilla,
> bf2.4] without doing a reinstall?  Does anyone know which is likely to
> include the agpgart module that supports the i810 video chipset?

You can simply use apt-get to install additional kernel packages. The
kernel you are running will not be replaced unless you install a newer
package of the same kernel (and in that case you will be asked if you
really want to continue). Try one of the 2.4.18 images. The bf2.4 may
be fine for installation, but the other packages are probably better
for a running system. Try

apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.18-1-686/k7/k6/586, depending or your
processor type. The 2.4.18 images except the bf Kernel use an initrd so
you will have to configure your bootloader properly, otherwise you
cannot boot with that Kernel.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Re: fun stuff - dvd - 802.11g

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya david

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, David Z Maze wrote:

> Alvin Oga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > i've just gotten the distro to recognize the Netgear WG311 pci 
> > 802.11g card  ( have a linksys card too but havent tested it yet )
> >
> > - note that its "g" 54Mbps  ... vs the slower 802.11[a/b]
> 
> Nitpicking, 802.11a is also advertised as 54mbps, but runs on a
> different frequency than 802.11b/g.  So on a mixed b/g network, you
> can wind up with the g clients slowing down to b rates to accomodate
> the slower hosts; since 802.11a runs on a separate frequency, it
> always runs at full speed.  I also know there are some
> interoperability problems with 802.11g (I had trouble earlier this
> summer trying to use a Dell-brand 802.11b card vs. some big-name
> 802.11g APs), but those might be cleaned up with newer hardware.

yup..

but i wanna try to make my own AP too .. for the cost of a PC
instead of buying a ready made linksys/netgear for $150 - $250 ..
- silly huh ..
- new challenges are fun sometimes

> The downside of 802.11a under Linux is that
> 
> > - i got it working with the athros drivers from madwifi
> > http://www.sourceforge.net/madwifi
> 
> there's only one manufacturer of 802.11a chipsets (Atheros), and one
> driver for it, which works well enough for most purposes but isn't
> DFSG-free.

i'm only worried about 802.11g ... 

while 802.11a runs 54Mbps, its also running "regulated" and has
problems going thru walls/building/glass ???

i'm gonna be going into multiple floor environment, and trying to
avoid the internal rewiring of the building ( especially between floors )

differences between a/b/g
http://www.Linux-Sec.net/Wireless/

> > - now the trick is to setup another box just like it
> > and the two machines should be able to talk to each other
> > over 802.11g  ...
> 
> I don't know whether things besides 802.11b support "ad-hoc"
> networking.  But access points are comparatively cheap these days, and
> they pretty much all advertise 802.11g support.

me neither... am just getting on the wireless bandwagon ... :-)

- fromt what i gathered, 802.11g is the way to go for us...
since we dont need to worry about backward compatibility
but do have to worry about going between floors of the building

> > - not that WEP is NOT secure ... ( its been cracked )
> 
> Google-search for "end to end argument"; this doesn't concern me
> terribly (though my housemates think I shouldn't have a completely
> open 802.11b AP).

.. dont tell the spammers where you live :-)
- we wouldnt want them to send the spam and than disappear
from down the street 

> > and the other fun stuff... i just bought my first dvd .. w/out having
> > a player or system setup ...
> > - played w/ ogle, xine, mplayer, few others..
> >
> > - after a few hours of fiddling ( installing various packages )
> >
> > - "dvd player" is now working .. so now i need a new set of
> > real speakers and real audio amps
> 
> Which software package did you wind up using?

i'm using ogle and goggles for its gui

- xine and others would not compile on the distro i tested (
suse-9.0pro )  -- for a customer
 
- mplayer is what we use now for all mpeg and mpeg4
but it didnt work with the one test dvd i got

- i just tried xmms under slackware-9.1 and it too crashed

- havent tried under sid/woody/testing/... yet
( just have 2 fingers .. :-)

thanx
alvin


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Use Debian mailinglists with slow connection to Internet?

[Anton Zinoviev]

Hi!

The Debian mailing lists produce big trafic of email.  If I want to
follow them regularly I have to use a slow and expensive connection to
Internet (low quality phone line or mobile phone).  I tried to use
offlineimap but this was only to realise that I can afford it.  May be
other people have symilar problems (mobile computers, etc.).

Certainly I am not interested in every message.  May be there is some
way to control which messages will be copied from the server to the
computer I use?  Is the following scenario possible somehow: First, I
connect to Internet in order to get automaticaly the first messages
from each thread.  Then read the received messages offline.  Next by
some "subscription" mechanism I connect again and receive all messages
from threads I have selected.

I can install software both on my computer and on the server I use.
It would be nice however to find a solution that will not require to
install anything on the server.

Thanks, Anton Zinoviev


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Re: yet another NVIDIA problem (4496)

[Haim Ashkenazi]

Paul Johnson wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 11:52:32AM +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote:
>> I originaly thought about bying radeon (9500, or 9700) but when I've
>> searched the mailing list I saw there were a lot of problems with the ATI
>> drivers too, so I've decided to stick with nvidia (known evil against new
>> evil...)
> 
> Well, known evil is easy to fix and does.  ATI drivers are pretty
> solid.  nvidia drivers are closed and buggy, so while it's known evil,
> it's not something we can do anything about but boycott.
I was under the impression that the open source drivers only support up to
Radeon 9200.
If I'm mistaken, my next card will be ATI :)

Bye
--
Haim


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Re: Dell TrueMobile Router and Debian

[Jason Lunz]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> currently I have a Dell TrueMobile 1184 router which runs with
> modified Linux kernel provided by Dell: I wonder if there is a way to
> install Debian on such a machine in order to update the kernel and
> install personnlized stuff rather than useless documentations: any
> idea ?

I have one of these too. I bought it after seeing talk online that it
runs linux, and one report of recompiling a kernel.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, that report was false. The machine
does run a linux 2.2 kernel, but I think it's one of the mmu-less
versions. Dell provides a source tarball that purports to be the kernel
source for the machine, but it's a lie. I don't know whether Dell is
aware of this.

Even if you had the source for the kernel, the bootloader is not
documented in any way, so I don't think there's any way to safely upload
a new kernel or recover if you botch something. One mistake and your
router is a paperweight.

I've seen a few noises about getting a tiny distro supported on these
things, but nothing substantive yet. I'd love to help out if a project
formed to work on these things.

Jason


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Re: OT: Letter to TigerDirect

[David Gaudine]

On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 10:46 AM, Kent West wrote:

I've done business with TigerDirect in the past, but recently they've 
added a pro-MS banner to their home page. I wrote this note to them, 
and would encourage other Debianistas who have done business with them 
to make your feelings known to them also. Note, I realize many (most?) 
of you aren't anti-Microsoft (unlike myself), but are rather 
pro-Debian, but the banner just seems -- wrong, somehow, for 
freedom-loving folks. I'm probably over-reacting (and hopefully this 
message won't get me in a bunch of killfiles), but it just seems like 
I should make you folks aware of this.
I interpret it as being aimed at Windows users, encouraging them to 
spend extra for Windows XP instead of copying some old version of 
Windows from a friend.  As a Debian user I don't care what version of 
Windows they recommend.  If they recommended Redhat, then I'd be 
annoyed.
David

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Re: locales and coding systems

[Haines Brown]

Colin,

Thanks for the clarification of some of the jargon. I suspected I knew
what the terms meant, but when confronted with a complex situation in
which many terms are shakey, guessing won't do.

> > Suspecting locales needs a different version of glibc, and knowing
> > that one can install multiple versions of glibc, I try:
> 
> One cannot install multiple versions of glibc, at least not using the
> Debian package management system. 

Aha! However, it's legit as far as linux is concerned, isn't it? I
believe I've done this before successfully.
 
> What does 'dpkg -l libc6 locales' say?

Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   VersionDescription
+++-==-==-
ii  libc6  2.2.5-11.2 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone
in  locales (no description available)

Locales for stable depends on glibc-2.2.5-11.5. How I managed to end
up with libc6-2.2.5-11.2 escapes me, but that's what I have. 

I may have messed things up when trying to install an untested
application (Scribus) that may have required a newer version of
libc6. When I get back to Scribus installation, I may be lucky and be
able to create a symlink to 2.2.5-11.5 for it, but if that fails, I
suppose I'll have to download and compile source for the newer libc6
and use it in parallel with the 2.2.5-11.5 version. 

> > $ sudo aptitude install glibc=2.2.5
> > ...
> > Unable to find version "2.2.5" for the package "glibc" 
> 
> You can't invent version numbers and expect them to work! :) Also, it's
> "libc6" rather than "glibc".

Sorry about the imaginary version number ;-). With the right name and
number in hand, I just now successfully installed libc6-2.2.5-11.5,
and then, not surprisingly, was able to install locales-2.2.5-11.5 as
well. 

I configured locales with en-US.utf-8, but when I next ran $ sudo
locale, all I get for LANG is LANG=POSIX. I suspect I need to reboot
for locale to be reset. In any case, the command $ sudo dpkg -l
locales now reports that locales is installed. 

I assume I must reboot in order to test if enUS/utf-8 is now
default. I'm optimistic it will be. Thanks for the help. 

Haines Brown


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Re: Use Debian mailinglists with slow connection to Internet?

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Anton Zinoviev:
> 
> It would be nice however to find a solution that will not require to
> install anything on the server.

Got a web browser or newsreader?  Debian mailinglists are gatewayed to
Usenet (linux.debian.user & etc.).  That's read only though.  If you
want to be able to post too, see www.gmane.org


-- 
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Re: How to login as ROOT as start

[David Gaudine]

On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Stephen Liu wrote:

Hi folks,

How can I login as ROOT after booting at 'Desktop Manager" popup.  I am
only allowed to login as USER both KDE and GNOME.
Although the person who said you shouldn't is probably right, with Gnome
try (at the login screen) system/configure, enter the root password,
then the security tab.
David
(ironic that I found a gnome question that I can answer when I still
haven't found the desktop.)
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Re: Bootup Freezes

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 at 15:42 GMT, Thomas H. George penned:
>> 
> OK, I downloaded Knoppis and will try it for a few days.  And yes, I
> did mean 2.6, not 0.6.  I understood the implication of "test" and had
> already reverted to 2.4.22 and the problems continued.  In fact, last
> night the shutdown seemed completely normal but this morning bootup
> halted with a "general protection fault"!  Again, booting from bbc-2.1
> and running e2fsck -f on all partitions found nothing following which
> the system booted to 2.4.22 with no problems.
> 
> tom

Smells like a hardware problem to me.

-- 
monique


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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 at 16:15 GMT, Wayne Topa penned:
> Monique Y. Herman([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
>> 
>> I understand that you're trying to better the list, and I appreciate
>> that, but your attitude is a total turnoff.  Have you ever heard the
>> saying, "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?  i
>>
>> If you want to influence people, craft your sentences so that they
>> garner respect, not derision.
> 
> I find that comment applies more to your posts the it does to Karsten.

It's possible.  I'll try to watch my tone more carefully.

> I believe you are rather new to this list.  I have been on d-u for
> over 6 years and find that Karsten is a big contributor, both in
> Technical expertise and on-target criticism, and have no problem with
> his attitude whatsoever. You might feel that way because you are a
> contributor the the OT threads, which I can't check here, as I have
> deleted them all as they grow and have no wish to check the archives.

If I thought he was totally off-base wrt OT threads, I wouldn't have
posted what I did.  As I said, "I understand that you're trying to
better the list, and I appreciate that."  I do believe that.  I just
think there are more effective ways of going about it.

There is absolutely a learning curve to every community, and
long-standing members deservedly get more respect and slack.  I do think
that I've been lurking and posting long enough to have a sense of the
community.

-- 
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Re: locales and coding systems

[John Hasler]

Haines Brown writes:
> Aha! However, it's legit as far as linux is concerned, isn't it? I
> believe I've done this before successfully.

You can install multiple major versions of libc with the Debian package
management system: see libc5.  You should not need multiple minor versions.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin


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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[H. S.]

Isaac To wrote:
"H" == H S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Right, Human Genome is not written by programmers.  Genes are evolved, not
designed.  In contrast, a good programmer write code that will make sense
when it is being read, because they are the ones who need to read them the
most, and when they need to change them it is usually at a time when they
forget much of the program.  They will write it in a structure that reflect
the specification of the project, layered in a way that reflects how the
users will perceive the software, etc.  In other words, they should be
self-documenting.
Regards,
Isaac.
Yes, I can understand that perfectly. Though I don't write software and 
design application for Linux, I still do programming for my research on 
a daily basis. And I learned early that self documentation is virtually 
unavoidabel to avoid wasting time later in understand what one was 
doing. I personally use variable names that actually make sense, even if 
they are 15 characters or so long (in C, C++ or MATLAB), this aids a 
*huge* deal if I come back again in a couple of months time to see what 
I was doing. Not to mention the comments, the description in the header 
files and the neat names given to the source files.

What pisses me off is when people intentionally  or carelessly obfuscate 
the code. I recall reading a publicly available source for 
implementation of an algorithm in which the programmer had given female 
names to his variable (perhaps his past girl friends?!?) which had 
absolutely nothing to do with the algorithm! LOL

regards
->HS
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Apologies for the inconvenience, but this is to reduce spam.)



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Re: Linux is not for consumers!

[Jamin W. Collins]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 08:21:20PM -0600, Terry Hancock wrote:
> 
> The people who know a program best are the ones who work
> on its internals.  No one else can write documentation like the
> guy who built the thing in the first place.  Failing that, you can
> have someone step in and write it, yes.  But it'll never be as
> accurate as you'd like, nor as up-to-date.

This is something of a fallacy.  In some cases the guy that wrote it is
the _last_ guy you want documenting it.  They may take certain
items/features for granted because they have become second nature to
them.  A good compromise is a collaborative effort where a user (or
someone else) of the software/product creates the documentation using
the original author as a resource.  This way you get an outside point of
view.

-- 
Jamin W. Collins

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. --Aldous Huxley,
"Proper Studies", 1927


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Re: Dell TrueMobile Router and Debian

[Jerome BENOIT]

Hi,

thank for the reply:

what about LEAF ?

http://leaf.sourceforge.net

Jason Lunz wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

currently I have a Dell TrueMobile 1184 router which runs with
modified Linux kernel provided by Dell: I wonder if there is a way to
install Debian on such a machine in order to update the kernel and
install personnlized stuff rather than useless documentations: any
idea ?


I have one of these too. I bought it after seeing talk online that it
runs linux, and one report of recompiling a kernel.
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, that report was false. The machine
does run a linux 2.2 kernel, but I think it's one of the mmu-less
versions. Dell provides a source tarball that purports to be the kernel
source for the machine, but it's a lie. I don't know whether Dell is
aware of this.
Even if you had the source for the kernel, the bootloader is not
documented in any way, so I don't think there's any way to safely upload
a new kernel or recover if you botch something. One mistake and your
router is a paperweight.
I've seen a few noises about getting a tiny distro supported on these
things, but nothing substantive yet. I'd love to help out if a project
formed to work on these things.
Jason




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Re: OT: Lindows based on Debian? (Re: Linux is not for consumers!)

[Lance Simmons]

* David Baron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [031212 02:18]:
> 
>  

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Re: Use Debian mailinglists with slow connection to Internet?

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 at 17:14 GMT, Anton Zinoviev penned:
> Hi!
> 
> The Debian mailing lists produce big trafic of email.  If I want to
> follow them regularly I have to use a slow and expensive connection to
> Internet (low quality phone line or mobile phone).  I tried to use
> offlineimap but this was only to realise that I can afford it.  May be
> other people have symilar problems (mobile computers, etc.).
> 
> Certainly I am not interested in every message.  May be there is some
> way to control which messages will be copied from the server to the
> computer I use?  Is the following scenario possible somehow: First, I
> connect to Internet in order to get automaticaly the first messages
> from each thread.  Then read the received messages offline.  Next by
> some "subscription" mechanism I connect again and receive all messages
> from threads I have selected.
> 
> I can install software both on my computer and on the server I use.
> It would be nice however to find a solution that will not require to
> install anything on the server.
> 
> Thanks, Anton Zinoviev
> 
> 

It sounds like the gmane newsgroup mirror might be a good idea for you.
You can choose to only download headers initially, and the newsreader
will then only pull the full message if you try to view it.

-- 
monique


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Re: How to read package change logs before install

[Karsten M. Self]

on Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:53:02AM -0500, Lou Losee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Ok - another elementary (I hope) apt question:
> 
> 1)Is there any way to read the change-log associated with a package
> without either downloading the package or installing the package?

apt-get install apt-listchanges

I'd also recommend apt-listbugs.  Though it's currently broken as it's
wont to be.


Both tools will query and report to stdout, as well as mail root
afterwards, system updates, prior to committing installation (you're
prompted after they display).

> Typically to see the change log, readme, etc, I download the package and
> install it and if it isn't correct then remove it.  Alternatively, I use
> APT-listchanges to see the change log before actually installing, but
> saying no at that point forces the cancellation of all installs not just
> the one I don't want after reading the changes.

You can also browse DEBs through a number of graphical/console shell
browsers including mc, Konqueror, and Nautilus.  You still need 'em
downloaded, but not installed.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Monique Y. Herman:
> 
> There is absolutely a learning curve to every community, and
> long-standing members deservedly get more respect and slack.  I do think
> that I've been lurking and posting long enough to have a sense of the
> community.

I don't think that's possible.  Between the range of Rick Moen
(consummate diplomat and highly reasoned thinker) through Peter
T. Brewer (curmudgeonly SOB), it's a pretty wide field.  Both of those
are well worth reading when you run into them.

Simpler is just to press the "d" key when your buttons get pushed.


-- 
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disabling inetd

[Rick Weinbender]

I've heard that the inetd process is not very secure.
Also, my email server runs fine even if I kill the inetd process.
*
Is there a way to remove it or disable it permanently.
Would this be a good thing to do?  Or will it just cause
me problems down the road.

Thanks,
-Rick



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Re: Can't get jabber to start on installation

[Jamin W. Collins]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 03:02:24AM -0800, Doctorcam wrote:
> I have managed to get jabber installed, and running it from the command
> line seems to work fine, following the instructions in the 1.4.x
> administration guide.

Which user did you run it as?

> Trying to get dpkg to finish installing it, however, or (more
> specifically) trying to run it from the init.d script is another matter.

Did the initial installation fail?  
Which package version are you using?

> The script runs fine up to this portion, and then dies:
> 
> if pidof $DAEMON > /dev/null 2>&1; then
>echo "$NAME."

That is checking to see that the server actually started and stayed
running.

> In fact, it does (I stuck a few "echos" into the script to track
> progress), though sometimes it endures past the failure of the script,
> and sometimes it does not.

This is a known problem with the 1.4.x jabber daemon.  If it exits for a
bad configuration it will frequently leave it's PID file behind and then
fail to start again because the PID file exists.  The init script in the
Debian package works around this by checking for a stale PID file (and
removing it if it can) before launching the daemon.

> When it has endured, the owner was daemon,
> and permissions were 755
> 
> /var/run/jabber has jabber:nogroup permissions 755

Looks like you're using the -12 package?  Can you provide the output of
the following commands:

ls -ld /var/run/jabber
ls -l /var/run/jabber

-- 
Jamin W. Collins

To be nobody but yourself when the whole world is trying it's best night
and day to make you everybody else is to fight the hardest battle any
human being will fight. -- E.E. Cummings


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Re: My email is rejected by some sites

[Vineet Kumar]

* TR ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031212 04:02]:
> Somebody whose attribution has been removed wrote:
> > Well, really you'll just need one such router, with the bad domains
> > listed on that "domains = " line.  Me, I'd use a filename there and
> > that way be able to just edit the file whenever I felt like it instead
> > of mucking around in exim.conf.  As an added bonus, making changes to
> > this external file wouldn't require the server to reload to
> > incorporate them.
> 
> What is the correct way?
> " domains = /home/tony/black_list  "
> is for example right?

Yep, that should do it.  I don't have any machines with exim3 still on
them to check, but I recall doing things like

local_domains = /etc/exim/local_domains
relay_domains = /etc/exim/relay_domains

There's no special trick to it.  Just check the ownership and
permissions if you're using a file within your home directory.

good times,
Vineet
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[OT] C programming, variable size array

[Aryan Ameri]

Hi There:

I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked this 
question from a fellow friend of mine:

"Write a program, which promts the uset to enter some numbers. The user 
should terminate the sequence of numbers by entering EOF character. The 
program should put numbers entered by the user in to a 1D array".

Which seems pretty simple in first glance, but has one problem. When 
initializing the array, I don't know it's size (and I don't want to ask 
the user to enter it's size). The first soloution that came to my mind 
was to initialize the array to a very big number. However this is not 
elegant programming, and is a waste of memory. My second soloution was, 
to initialize the array inside the loop, so that it enlarges it's size 
continously each time the user inputs a number. I wrote the following 
code:

#include 

main()
{
int tmp, cnt = 0;
static int arr[cnt];
printf( "Enter Number\n");
scanf( "%d", &tmp);
while ( (tmp = getchar() ) != EOF ) {
arr[cnt] = tmp;
cnt += 1;
static int arr[cnt];
printf( "Enter Number\n");
scanf( "%d", &tmp);
}

return 0;
}

This sounded logical to me. But the compiler (gcc 3.2) gives me a syntax 
error saying that 'storage size of 'arr' isn't constant'. Well, I don't 
want it to be constant!

I was wondering if any of you could help me solve this question. This is 
not yet-another-student-asking-for-help-to-do-homework. This is a 
problem for me, which has made me busy for a couple of days, and 
googling and greping /usr/include and other basic methods didn't reveal 
anything to me.

PS: Now that I am on the subject, can anyone point me to a active C 
mailing list? one that I can ask these kind of question from, as they 
come up? preferrably with a tendency towards Unix/Linux. (mailing lists 
please, not newsgroups).


Cheers
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Aryan Ameri


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Re: Re: problem updating postgresql package

[Martin Hofheinz]

Hi,

i am encountering the same problems as described in this thread.

following your advice to alter the preinst script, i receive this output:
(my locale settings are german)

# dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb
(Lese Datenbank ... 17012 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit installiert.)
Entpacke postgresql (aus .../postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb) ...
+ . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
++ '[' '!' '' ']'
++ exec /usr/share/debconf/frontend /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst install 7.2.1-2woody4
dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb 
(--install):
 Unterprozess pre-installation script gab den Fehlerwert 128 zurück
Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
 /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb

Is this helpful for anyone?




On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 00:35, Malcolm Warren wrote:
> Got the following message updating postgresql to 7.3.2
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Unpacking postgresql (from .../postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: error processing 
> /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb (--unpack):
>   subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 128
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>   /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> 
> Any help welcome.

I need to see what the error was, so you must modify the preinst
script in the package and put a trace in it.  This is a bit complicated
since it is the preinstallation script that is failing and it is only in
the deb:

# mkdir /tmp/pg
# cd /tmp
# ar x /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb control.tar.gz
# cd /tmp/pg
# tar xzf ../control.tar.gz
# vi ./preinst
Add the line "set -x" at line 2 of the script and file it.
# tar czf ../control.tar.gz .
# cd ..
# ar r /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb control.tar.gz
# dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/postgresql_7.3.2r1-5_i386.deb

Now when it fails, we should know roughly what it was trying to do.

(FYI, 7.3.4 is now in unstable.)

-- 
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  hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to 
  him, and will sup with him, and he with me."   
   Revelation 3:20 



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Fax:  (0 12 12) 5 106 97 198

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tetex in unstable, tcrm1000 not found

[Andrew Perrin]

Greetings-

I was getting the error message:

font tcrm1000 not found, leaving blank

when creating a pdf file from LaTeX using the following sequence:

latex microcultures
dvipdf microcultures

After some digging around, I found that the problem was that dvipdf
attempted to run mf to create the font, but the directory into which it
was to be put (/var/spool/texmf/tfm/jknappen/tc/) was not writeable by
normal users. This caused dvipdf to fail without (much) information,
although dvips was significantly more verbose.

I post this mostly so others with similar problems can save a little of
their hair, and also to ask if this constitutes a "bug" I should report.

Thanks-
Andy

--
Andrew J Perrin - http://www.unc.edu/~aperrin
Assistant Professor of Sociology, U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
[EMAIL PROTECTED] * andrew_perrin (at) unc.edu


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Re: Can we tag [T]echnical posts?

[David Palmer.]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:20:07 -0700
"s. keeling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Incoming from Monique Y. Herman:
> > 
> > There is absolutely a learning curve to every community, and
> > long-standing members deservedly get more respect and slack.  I do
> > think that I've been lurking and posting long enough to have a sense
> > of the community.
> 
> I don't think that's possible.  Between the range of Rick Moen
> (consummate diplomat and highly reasoned thinker) through Peter
> T. Brewer (curmudgeonly SOB), it's a pretty wide field.  Both of those
> are well worth reading when you run into them.
> 
> Simpler is just to press the "d" key when your buttons get pushed.
> 
Yes, it has a certain therapeutic value, too.
But Sergeant-of-arms of an online community?
Please, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom.
That sort of fantasy would hold pride of place in any of the O.T.
threads that I have seen here.
Regards,

David.


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Re: OT: Lindows based on Debian? (Re: Linux is not for consumers!)

[John Hasler]

Lance Simmons writes:
> Probably, but if I have a friend who is thinking of buying a machine with
> Lindows installed on it, I can tell him to go ahead, and I can teach him
> how to maintain it as a Debian machine.

Or you can tell him to go ahead and then install Libranet.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: locales and coding systems

[Colin Watson]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 01:19:17PM -0500, Haines Brown wrote:

> > > Suspecting locales needs a different version of glibc, and knowing
> > > that one can install multiple versions of glibc, I try:
> > 
> > One cannot install multiple versions of glibc, at least not using the
> > Debian package management system. 
> 
> Aha! However, it's legit as far as linux is concerned, isn't it? I
> believe I've done this before successfully.

It's possible, but awkward, and there are lots of unexpected roadblocks.

> > What does 'dpkg -l libc6 locales' say?
> 
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
> ||/ Name   VersionDescription
> +++-==-==-
> ii  libc6  2.2.5-11.2 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone
> in  locales (no description available)
> 
> Locales for stable depends on glibc-2.2.5-11.5. How I managed to end
> up with libc6-2.2.5-11.2 escapes me, but that's what I have. 

Looks like you're missing security.debian.org from
/etc/apt/sources.list, I think. -11.2 was in stable or maybe
stable-proposed-updates at least until recently, while -11.5 is in
security.

> I may have messed things up when trying to install an untested
> application (Scribus) that may have required a newer version of
> libc6. When I get back to Scribus installation, I may be lucky and be
> able to create a symlink to 2.2.5-11.5 for it, but if that fails, I
> suppose I'll have to download and compile source for the newer libc6
> and use it in parallel with the 2.2.5-11.5 version. 

It would be much easier to compile scribus from source so that it
depends on the older libc6. Dependencies on libc6 are usually a property
of the build, not of the source code.

Symlinks between different versions of libraries are generally not a
good plan.

> Sorry about the imaginary version number ;-). With the right name and
> number in hand, I just now successfully installed libc6-2.2.5-11.5,
> and then, not surprisingly, was able to install locales-2.2.5-11.5 as
> well. 

Ah, excellent.

> I configured locales with en-US.utf-8, but when I next ran $ sudo
> locale, all I get for LANG is LANG=POSIX. I suspect I need to reboot
> for locale to be reset. In any case, the command $ sudo dpkg -l
> locales now reports that locales is installed. 
> 
> I assume I must reboot in order to test if enUS/utf-8 is now
> default.

No, you don't need to reboot; just log out and log back in.

(BTW, 'dpkg -l locales' doesn't need any special privileges, so you can
run it as an ordinary non-root user.)

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[Wesley J Landaker]

On Friday 12 December 2003 11:38 am, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> Hi There:
>
> I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked
> this question from a fellow friend of mine:
>
> "Write a program, which promts the uset to enter some numbers. The
> user should terminate the sequence of numbers by entering EOF
> character. The program should put numbers entered by the user in to a
> 1D array".

Hmmm... sounds a lot like a homework problem... =)

Of course, the normal way to do something like this is to not use C, 
since it's way more low-level than you need. 

I'd use Ruby:

numbers = []
while line = gets
  numbers << line.to_i
end

It's similarly simple in Perl, Python, etc.

But I'm guessing that you want to do it in C for *some* reason:

> #include 
>
> main()
> {
> int tmp, cnt = 0;
> static int arr[cnt];
> printf( "Enter Number\n");
> scanf( "%d", &tmp);
> while ( (tmp = getchar() ) != EOF ) {
> arr[cnt] = tmp;
> cnt += 1;
> static int arr[cnt];
> printf( "Enter Number\n");
> scanf( "%d", &tmp);
> }
>
> return 0;
> }

There are a number of problems with this code, but here is a biggie: you 
are declaring 'arr' as static; this means that the storage for 'arr' 
has to be initialized during compilation, which in this case is of 
course impossible, since 'cnt' is dynamic. Of course, just getting rid 
of the 'static' isn't going to make this work either.

If you want a dynamically sized array in C, you'll need to allocate it 
using malloc() and friends ('man malloc' for more info). It's not 
efficient, but you could 'realloc()' the memory every time. 

Something like this would work if you fill in some of the blanks:

int main() {
  int *array = malloc(sizeof(int));
  int size = 0;
  printf("Enter Number\n");
  while (/*not EOF*/) {
size += sizeof(int);
array = realloc(array, size);
scanf("%d", &array[size/sizeof(int)-1]);
  }
}

It would be better to allocate memory in chunks, or better yet, do 
something like read the numbers into a linked-list and then copy them 
to an array when you're ready to use them that way, or to use C++ and 
use the  class, or something like that.

-- 
Wesley J. Landaker - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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libapache-mod-perl install breaks

[Nori Heikkinen]

for some time now, whenever i apt-get install anything, dpkg has been
trying to configure libapache-mod-perl, and failing.  it'l present me
with the config screen:

Setting up libapache-mod-perl (1.28-1) ...
Configuring 


  1. mod_vhost_alias  22. mod_access43. mod_auth_digest
  2. mod_env  23. mod_auth  44. mod_auth_external
  3. mod_log_config   24. mod_auth_anon 45. mod_auth_inst
  4. mod_log_agent25. mod_auth_dbm  46. mod_auth_system
  5. mod_log_referer  26. mod_auth_db   47. mod_bandwidth
  6. mod_mime_magic   27. libproxy  48. mod_cgisock
  7. mod_mime 28. mod_digest49. mod_disallow_id
  8. mod_negotiation  29. mod_cern_meta 50. mod_eaccess
  9. mod_status   30. mod_expires   51. mod_ip_forwarding
  10. mod_info31. mod_headers   52. mod_lock
  11. mod_include 32. mod_usertrack 53. mod_macro
  12. mod_autoindex   33. mod_unique_id 54. mod_peephole
  13. mod_dir 34. mod_setenvif  55. mod_php4
  14. mod_cgi 35. mod_auth_sys  56. mod_qs2ssi
  15. mod_asis36. mod_perl  57. mod_roaming
  16. mod_imap37. mod_put   58. mod_session
  17. mod_actions 38. libcache  59. mod_ticket
  18. mod_speling 39. mod_allowdev  60. mod_urlcount
  19. mod_userdir 40. mod_auth_cache61. mod_mp3
  20. mod_alias   41. mod_auth_cookie_file
  21. mod_rewrite 42. mod_auth_cookie 

(Enter the items you want to select, separated by spaces.)

:-) Please select the modules that apache will load 


and then, no matter which modules i enter, i get the following error:

expr: syntax error
dpkg: error processing libapache-mod-perl (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
 Errors were encountered while processing:
  libapache-mod-perl

i've tried apt-get removing this package, i've tried dpkg
--configuring it ... nothing works.

now i actually want libapache-mod-mp3, and its concomitant packages.
is libapache-mod-perl in any way conncted with this?  even if it's
not, i'd like to make it stop giving me this obnoxious error message
every time i use apt.

any hints?

thanks,



-- 
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/V\  http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~nori/jnl/
   // \\  @ maenad.net
  /(   )\   www.maenad.net
   ^`~'^
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**
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Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[Alex Malinovich]

On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 14:04, Wesley J Landaker wrote:
> On Friday 12 December 2003 11:38 am, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> > Hi There:
> >
> > I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked
> > this question from a fellow friend of mine:
> >
> > "Write a program, which promts the uset to enter some numbers. The
> > user should terminate the sequence of numbers by entering EOF
> > character. The program should put numbers entered by the user in to a
> > 1D array".
> 
> Hmmm... sounds a lot like a homework problem... =)
> 

Yes, it does... :)

> Of course, the normal way to do something like this is to not use C, 
> since it's way more low-level than you need. 

But since the OP did say he was a CS major, I'd imagine that the whole
point would be to do it in a very low level language. :)

> It would be better to allocate memory in chunks, or better yet, do 
> something like read the numbers into a linked-list and then copy them 
> to an array when you're ready to use them that way, or to use C++ and 
> use the  class, or something like that.

I definitely agree with the linked-list suggestion. I had thought that
most intro CS courses already cover linked list implementations. Either
way, if you haven't had linked lists as part of your curriculum yet,
learn how to do them now and it will put you ahead of the game for a lot
of your courses. The course that I took that introduced linked lists
took the better part of the semester to cover them though, in my
opinion, one or two labs max would have been sufficient.

And I wouldn't even bother putting the linked list into an array in the
first place. If you write a good linked list implementation (which, as I
said, would be a good exercise) it will already support all of the
functions that you're likely to need with an array, so you might as well
just keep it as a linked list.

-- 
Alex Malinovich
Support Free Software, delete your Windows partition TODAY!
Encrypted mail preferred. You can get my public key from any of the
pgp.net keyservers. Key ID: A6D24837


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Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Wesley J Landaker:
Content-Description: signed data
> On Friday 12 December 2003 11:38 am, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> >
> > I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked
> > this question from a fellow friend of mine:
> 
> Hmmm... sounds a lot like a homework problem... =)

Or a troll.  He just asked the same thing on Libranet users.


-- 
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(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
- -


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Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[Debian User]

if you really have to do it in a low-level language, do it in assembly 
native to that processor. you can even write them inline within your 
C code.

asm(" mnemonic_instruction operand, operand");


At Friday, 12 December 2003, Alex Malinovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
shack.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 14:04, Wesley J Landaker wrote:
>> On Friday 12 December 2003 11:38 am, Aryan Ameri wrote:
>> > Hi There:
>> >
>> > I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked
>> > this question from a fellow friend of mine:
>> >
>> > "Write a program, which promts the uset to enter some numbers. The
>> > user should terminate the sequence of numbers by entering EOF
>> > character. The program should put numbers entered by the user 
in to a
>> > 1D array".
>> 
>> Hmmm... sounds a lot like a homework problem... =)
>> 
>
>Yes, it does... :)
>
>> Of course, the normal way to do something like this is to not use C, 
>> since it's way more low-level than you need. 
>
>But since the OP did say he was a CS major, I'd imagine that the whole
>point would be to do it in a very low level language. :)
>
>> It would be better to allocate memory in chunks, or better yet, do 
>> something like read the numbers into a linked-list and then copy 
them 
>> to an array when you're ready to use them that way, or to use 
C++ and 
>> use the  class, or something like that.
>
>I definitely agree with the linked-list suggestion. I had thought that
>most intro CS courses already cover linked list implementations. Either
>way, if you haven't had linked lists as part of your curriculum yet,
>learn how to do them now and it will put you ahead of the game for 
a lot
>of your courses. The course that I took that introduced linked lists
>took the better part of the semester to cover them though, in my
>opinion, one or two labs max would have been sufficient.
>
>And I wouldn't even bother putting the linked list into an array in the
>first place. If you write a good linked list implementation (which,
as I
>said, would be a good exercise) it will already support all of the
>functions that you're likely to need with an array, so you might 
as well
>just keep it as a linked list.
>
>-- 
>Alex Malinovich
>Support Free Software, delete your Windows partition TODAY!
>Encrypted mail preferred. You can get my public key from any of the
>pgp.net keyservers. Key ID: A6D24837
>
>Attached file
>Save attachment 
>View attachment as text 
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>
>











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Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[Wesley J Landaker]

On Friday 12 December 2003 1:42 pm, s. keeling wrote:
> Incoming from Wesley J Landaker:
> Content-Description: signed data
>
> > On Friday 12 December 2003 11:38 am, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> > > I am a first year CS student, learning C. A while ago I was asked
> > > this question from a fellow friend of mine:
> >
> > Hmmm... sounds a lot like a homework problem... =)
>
> Or a troll.  He just asked the same thing on Libranet users.


Well, at least libranet is debian based... it might be more suspicious 
if he asked it on a Redhat list. (=

-- 
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Description: signature

Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[Wesley J Landaker]

On Friday 12 December 2003 1:46 pm, Debian User wrote:
> if you really have to do it in a low-level language, do it in
> assembly native to that processor. you can even write them inline
> within your C code.
>
> asm(" mnemonic_instruction operand, operand");
>

Hey, I wouldn't be surprised if some IBM mainframe had a single 
instruction that would read console input and fill a dynamically-sized 
array. ;)

-- 
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Description: signature

Re: libGL and DRM error with Matrox card

[Graeme Tank]

On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 01:00:58PM +, Richard Kimber wrote:
> 
> Some apps give an error when started saying:
> 
> libGL error: failed to open DRM: Operation not permitted
> libGL error: reverting to (slow) indirect rendering
> 
> XFree86.0.log says:-
> MGA(0): Direct rendering enabled
> 
> Is there a problem?  If so how should I resolve it?
> 
> Thanks,
> - Richard.

Well, I started getting the identical error when I switched to a
2.6.0-test9 kernel from a 2.4.22 kernel. The apps that gave the error
were glxgears and mutt (when I would view html in Konqueror ... some
spam tastes hammy).

Using 

# dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 

and restarting the xserver fixed the problem. (I merely changed the
default pixel depth from 24 to 16 to see the effect on glxgears.
Switching back to a pixel depth of 24 did not cause the error to
reappear.)

FWIW, I use xserver-xfree86 4.3.0-0pre1v4 from experimental and the r128
driver for my cheapo ATI xpert 2k card.

Graeme


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Re: Debian installation trouble on server

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:22:13 +0100, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to install Debian (latest) on a 1U rack-server.
> Specs: P4, Raid (hot spare), no floppy, no cdrom, no PS/2 ports, 2 USB
> ports.
> 
> My problem is the following:
> I cannot connect a cdrom drive, so I thought about installing Debian
> using floppies via a usb floppy drive. However, the 1st floppy gets
> read ok, but the next one (root) doesn't get read. Seems like there's
> no support for that kind of floppy drive (a Teac one). Someone told me
> to get daily floppy images from
> http://people.debian.org/~sjogren/d-i/images/daily/ but that server
> does not work.
> 
> Server also supports Bootp, but I only have Windows workstations in
> the LAN, and didn't find any useful tool to get it running.
> 
> Moreover, adding to the problem, is the Raid driver (Fastrak133mb
> "lite" PDC 20276 IDE RAID) which might not be in the linux floppies...
> 
> Does anyone have a solution for this kind of problem?

..it boots ok from the usb floppy?  First move is get a 
pxe-booting floppy which support one of your box' nics: 
http://rom-o-matic.net/5.2.2/
http://etherboot.sourceforge.net/
http://syslinux.zytor.com/pxe.php
http://netboot.sourceforge.net/english/

..next move is set up a boot server, the _easiest_ way is put a knoppix
on one of your Wintendos, and then start "Knoppix Terminal Server" 
from the GUI.  ;-)

..now, for great fun, try clusterKnoppix "Knoppix OpenMosix Terminal
Server" and feed _all_ ;-) your Wintendo's that boot diskette.  ;-)
-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.


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Re: How to login as ROOT as start

[Roberto Sanchez]

Stephen Liu wrote:
Hi folks,

How can I login as ROOT after booting at 'Desktop Manager" popup.  I am
only allowed to login as USER both KDE and GNOME.
Thanks in advance.

B.R.
Stephen Liu

Why on God's green earth would you log in to ANY GUI as root?

-Roberto


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Description: PGP signature

Re: [OT] C programming, variable size array

[John Smith]

#include 
 
int main
(
   int  nNumberofArguments,
   char* apszArgument []
)
{
   int nReturncode = 0 ;
   int* pnStorage = NULL ;
   int* pnTmp = NULL ;
   int nNumberofelements = 0 ;
   int nNumberofreadfields = 0 ;
   int nCounter = 0 ;
   int nInput = 0 ;
 
   while ((nReturncode == 0) && ((nNumberofreadfields = scanf("%d",
&nInput)) == 1))
  {
 nNumberofelements++ ;
 if (pnStorage != NULL)
pnTmp = pnStorage ;
 if ((pnStorage = (int *) malloc (sizeof (int) *
nNumberofelements)) != NULL)
{
   nCounter = 0 ;
   if (pnStorage != NULL)
  for (nCounter = 0 ; nCounter < (nNumberofelements - 1)
; nCounter++)
 pnStorage[nCounter] = pnTmp[nCounter] ;
   pnStorage[nCounter] = nInput ;
   free (pnTmp) ;
}
   else
{
   fprintf (stderr, "Not enough memory\n") ;
   nReturncode = 1 ;
}
  }
   if (nReturncode == 0)
  {
 for ( nCounter = 0 ; nCounter < nNumberofelements ; nCounter +=
1 )
fprintf (stdout,"pnStorage [%d] : %d\n", nCounter, pnStorage
[nCounter]) ;
 fprintf (stdout,  "=\nNumber of elements :
%d\n", nNumberofelements) ;
  }
   free (pnStorage) ;
 
   return nReturncode ;
}


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Re: How to login as ROOT as start

[Debian User]

why not log in to your gui as a common user and su as root from a 
shell? 

anyway, i cannot anything in /etc/gnome that would limit who has 
access to the gui.


At Friday, 12 December 2003, Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

>Stephen Liu wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> How can I login as ROOT after booting at 'Desktop Manager" popup.
I am
>> only allowed to login as USER both KDE and GNOME.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> B.R.
>> Stephen Liu
>> 
>> 
>
>Why on God's green earth would you log in to ANY GUI as root?
>
>-Roberto
>
>Attached file
>Save attachment 
>View attachment as text 
> Name: attachment.9
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>
>











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installmanual

[Joseph MICHEL]

Hello,
 
    I would like to install debian. 
But when I read the installation manual http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual, 
I feel lost because it addresses expert people.
 
    Please, is there an automated 
installation program like that of Red Hat ?

Re: disabling inetd

[Initech]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 01:20:42PM -0600, Rick Weinbender wrote:
> I've heard that the inetd process is not very secure.
> Also, my email server runs fine even if I kill the inetd process.

Because it runs standalone :-)

> Is there a way to remove it or disable it permanently.
> Would this be a good thing to do?  Or will it just cause
> me problems down the road.

inetd is not really insecure, it the junk people start from it that is
insecure (finger, telnet, god knows what else).  inetd is a very
useful memory saver for services you want to run on year machine, but
only want them run when needed.

You can disable it if you like by running

update-rc.d -f inetd remove

(note: this is the way you modify init scripts in debian)

Or, you can go through /etc/inetd.conf and comment out (with a "#")
all the stuff you don't need.  If you don't know what it is or does,
you probably don't need it.

-- 
initech {huckster AT r00tserverz.net}
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[ Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.org ]


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