Certainly the issue is more than just "Slack vs. IRC," but it is definitely a substantial symptom of the larger issue. Artificial fragmentation of our community where it isn't necessary helps nobody. If we need a chat-style tool similar to IRC for a variety of reasons (and it seems clear that we do), then one should be found that allows us to have our open conversations and the necessary private conversions in one solution. As things stand, you often have to be connected to multiple services in order to stay up to date with what even your own team is doing (and even more so if your enclosing org is also having discussions of interest). I now have to be on both Slack and IRC. I use IRCCloud's integrated Slack support to access channels, but that doesn't include the other bits and pieces of slack that people make use of, leading to problems accessing materials like presentations and other attachments until I get logged into Slack somewhere.
Then we have mailing lists and Discourse. Similar situation. The worst part is that finding out where conversations are being held, or where information is being stored, is often nearly impossible. Teams are generally bad at recording in a Mozilla-wide place where they have their conversations and where they store important data and files that others may need to access. All of this leads to a feeling of being left out, and of closed-ness. It's been steadily getting worse over the last few years as more and more teams bring more and more of their own tools into things. Should teams be able to use tools that do the job they need to do? Yes! Should the information and material they produce that's open be shareable and easy to find? Yes. It seems that the only solution is a system that can let everyone get back into one place again, or at least into one neighborhood, so to speak. On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 2:25 PM Rubén Martín via governance < governance@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to support Leo's comment here, and add a few point based on > my experience comparing a 2004 Mozilla vs a 2018 Mozilla: > > * The original problem described in this email is about engaging with > a staff team on a feature discussion. We are a medium-sized > organization today and it's not realistic to expect every staff > member will be able to monitor real time communications tools (IRC, > slack, telegram or whatever). > * A lot of organizations have moved away from general real-time > communications because of this (and other notable issues) when they > have grown bigger (a related conversation here > < > https://experts.feverbee.com/t/the-ephemeral-nature-of-slack-vs-forums/2102/2 > >) > and kept them just for teams internal day to day operations. > * We should be open and smart, async communication tools (like > discourse for conversations or issue/bug comments) have demonstrated > being more inclusive, accessible, provide better moderation tools > and scale better for bigger organizations with thousands of > contributors. > > From my point of view turning this into a slack vs irc conversation is > not leading us to a productive place and won't solve the problem flagged > by the original poster. > > The question for me here is: Where do we need to design better open > channels of communication inside Mozilla teams with this need? > > Cheers. > > PS: I also recommend reading about the "Open by design > < > https://medium.com/mozilla-open-innovation/being-open-by-design-deec6768706>" > > work we have been driving from Open Innovation team. > > El 17/08/18 a las 11:43, Leo McArdle via governance escribió: > > Further to Peter's point, I think this betrays a misuse of Slack, IRC > > and other synchronous communication platforms. We have staff and > > volunteers distributed across the world, and we can expect neither to be > > active 24 hours a day. Trawling through past conversations isn't a > > productive use of anyone's time. > > > > One discussions have been had, and decisions made, they should be > > summarised on the appropriate asynchronous platform (be that Discourse, > > Bugzilla, GitHub, etc.) > > > > Leo > > > > > > On 16/08/18 21:44, Peter Saint-Andre via governance wrote: > >> On 8/16/18 3:52 AM, Dão Gottwald via governance wrote: > >>> The use of Slack at Mozilla has bothered me for a while. So far I > managed > >>> to pretty much ignore Slack. I feel left out sometimes but it hasn't > been a > >>> big deal, as far as I can tell. (Of course, since I don't have an > account, > >>> I don't know how much exactly I've been missing.) > >>> > >>> Now this issue came up again in > >>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1460248#c18 when a user > asked > >>> a question about a UX design that I implemented. These kind of > discussions > >>> in closed bugs usually don't go anywhere, so I asked the user to take > it to > >>> a mailing list or IRC. The user posted to #ux and never got a response. > >>> This can happen in channels with low usage, but Timvde let me know that > >>> this IRC channel has effectively been dead since the team has moved to > >>> Slack. > >> Aside from the question of Slack vs. IRC (or other), we might want to > >> address the multiple points of failure in this scenario (do a better job > >> of monitoring conversations in closed bugs, shut down dead channels, > >> update our documentation about communication venues, etc.). > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> governance mailing list > >> governance@lists.mozilla.org > >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > > _______________________________________________ > > governance mailing list > > governance@lists.mozilla.org > > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > > > -- > Rubén Martín [Nukeador] > Mozilla Reps Mentor > http://www.mozilla-hispano.org > http://twitter.com/mozilla_hispano > http://facebook.com/mozillahispano > > _______________________________________________ > governance mailing list > governance@lists.mozilla.org > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > -- Eric Shepherd Senior Technical Writer Mozilla Blog: http://www.bitstampede.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/sheppy Check my Availability <https://freebusy.io/esheph...@mozilla.com> _______________________________________________ governance mailing list governance@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
