> > well … my main intention was to set my expectations before joining you. > I would still volunteer to be your mentor. Just be aware that I will be > looking at things like that. If I see the project not communicating in a > way I can participate, I will point that out on the list and in the > reports. If you’re happy with that … I’m happy to help.
No problem :) I do have a question regarding the active contributors. Do I read the list > correctly, that there are only two people actively contributing to the > project right now and the others have at some time in the past, but no > longer do? This is not a disqualifying question … when I brought my project to the > incubator it was generally just me bein „active“ ;-) Yes, some original members discontinued for some reason currently, and probably will come back in the future. BifroMQ is a complex system and it's kind of hard to quickly get new contributors. This is another reason why I think joining ASF can help, making the project healthier. Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> 于2025年3月28日周五 15:34写道： > Hi Yonny, > > well … my main intention was to set my expectations before joining you. > I would still volunteer to be your mentor. Just be aware that I will be > looking at things like that. If I see the project not communicating in a > way I can participate, I will point that out on the list and in the > reports. If you’re happy with that … I’m happy to help. > > I do have a question regarding the active contributors. Do I read the list > correctly, that there are only two people actively contributing to the > project right now and the others have at some time in the past, but no > longer do? > > This is not a disqualifying question … when I brought my project to the > incubator it was generally just me bein „active“ ;-) > > Chris > > Von: Yonny Hao <popd...@gmail.com> > Datum: Freitag, 28. März 2025 um 02:52 > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] BifroMQ Proposal > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for bringing up this concern at the early stage of BifroMQ being > considered. I understand your perspective and the concerns you've > highlighted, and I also hope you can understand the current situation > influenced by cultural differences. > > Actually, to make the BifroMQ project more accessible to non-local users, > we've taken several measures since day one. For example, our documentation > and code comments are entirely in English, and we've set up communication > channels such as a Discord group (although it’s still pretty quiet, that’s > the reason why we think joining the ASF will help on this). We also > encourage or deliberately guide our local users who communicate in Chinese > on WeChat to post relevant discussions and issues in English on GitHub > ISSUE (and follow our predefined template: > > https://github.com/bifromqio/bifromq/blob/release-v3/.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/bug_report.md > ). > To be honest, this has indeed made both sides who are used to communicating > in their mother tongue feel uncomfortable. Even so, there are still some > domestic users who have followed our rules (although not many), but this > shows that we have made efforts and there is progress. The Apache > community’s preferred mailing list communication is somewhat similar to our > existing practices, at least it won't feel strange. > > Based on the background of BifroMQ above, if you're willing to take on the > role of a mentor for the BifroMQ project's incubation, we're more than > happy to find a suitable communication method, even though currently all > the team members are from China. I think mitigating the cultural gap needs > efforts from both sides in the long run, but the language barrier is easy > to overcome with proper tools, especially nowadays. > > That's what I want to say. I hope this can alleviate your concerns. > > Thanks, > Yonny (Yu) Hao > > Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> 于2025年3月26日周三 18:53写道： > > > Hi, > > > > I wasn’t meaning this as a general accusation. I was more just reporting > a > > pattern I have been seeing in the projects I’m … or was … involved in. > > > > I quite often noticed, that communicating in English is not easy for > > everyone. Tools such as Feishu closed the gap pretty well in the projects > > that I came across it in the past (Wich were all projects with a strong > > focus on a Chinese community) … at least I was able to work with a team, > > where I knew some people simply could not or didn’t feel comfortable > > communicating in English. > > > > So if theres a company with a significant influence, it’s an easy way, to > > simply focus more and more on the tools that allow communicating easier, > as > > the company needs to get stuff done. I understand that. However there > must > > be a bigger understanding, that Apache still requires decisons to be done > > in a way that anyone can participate. > > > > For example I’m a PMC member of Apache IoTDB and Apache TsFile. However, > I > > have absolutely no clue what the projects are actually working on. > There’s > > absolutely no discussion anywhere, where I could participate. > > > > So I want to make it clear: Being an Apache Project comes with > > expectations from our side. These are not optional and can not be > omitted, > > just because of community or especially not because corporate needs > dictate > > it. In that case, I would say, that Apache is currently not the place to > go. > > > > Right now, Apache is simply not very welcoming to non-english communities > > … I would have loved to change this, however the one thing we’re even > worse > > at, is change itself. > > > > So … I would like to say again: I would be delighted, if BifroMQ accepted > > this and embraced the way things work here and joined us. In that case I > > would be more than happy to step up as a mentor, if not even help out as > > champion. I just don’t want to invest so much time into a project, that > I’m > > excluded from after graduation. > > > > Hope that explains things a bit more. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 26. März 2025 um 08:53 > > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] BifroMQ Proposal > > > There seems to be a pattern with Chinese projects, that as soon as > > graduation is over corporate interests take over and are valued higher > than > > apache's. > > > > >> This is not a pattern with Chinese projects. This is a serious > > accusation, IMO, and I'm afraid this categorization creates a biased tag. > > > > I agree that we should not categorize projects in this way. In my > > opinion, it's not "This is not a pattern with Chinese projects", but > > "We don't categorize projects in this way." ASF projects grow, and we > > have healthy projects that build a worldwide community despite their > > possible "origins." > > > > To Chris: > > > > If you're wondering how BifroMQ would work, let's focus the discussion > > around it. Projects that have third-party user community channels are > > good; we have many projects that run their own Slack workspace as a > > channel under the ASF Slack workspace. Specific projects that make > > decisions off-list can need more oversight and help; you can start a > > dedicated thread for them. > > > > I understand your concern about investing time and energy but getting > > cut off later, and we have related several threads on board@ to > > discuss the pattern, no matter what other tags it may have. But I'd > > suggest we avoid a tag that may create a scarecrow or suddenly blame > > unrelated projects. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> 于2025年3月26日周三 15:37写道： > > > > > > Hi Chris > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 2:47 PM Christofer Dutz > > > <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just asking, because for example the previous projects, that i > was > > a mentor of: iotdb and answer, who's email lists I used to follow, are > > completely closed to me now. During my job at timcho I was able to access > > their feishu insurance and participate. Now, I'm just as cut off as > anyone > > else. > > > > > > > > There seems to be a pattern with Chinese projects, that as soon as > > graduation is over corporate interests take over and are valued higher > than > > apache's. > > > > > > The podling project is like listening to a mentor's advice before > > graduation. > > > I always told the projects I mentored that they should wear two hats > > > (one from the community and the other from the company) when they do > > > their work. > > > This is not a pattern with Chinese projects. This is a serious > > > accusation, IMO, and I'm afraid this categorization creates a biased > > > tag. > > > > > > As mentors, we can still discuss the project by sending emails > > > directly to the PMC once they graduate, and we can escalate the > > > situation if the PMC refuses to change. > > > > > > > > > > > While I was on the board I wanted to help find new ways to be more > > open to such communities, but right now these are not what Apache would > > like to have, but actually demands and should enforce more. > > > > > > > > So I don't want to invest my time in a project, that I'm cut off > after > > graduation. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > Willem > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > -- > Yonny Hao > -- Yonny(Yu) Hao
