Hi Christofer, We have room for you as the mentor; I already updated the proposal to add you to the mentor list. Please check it out https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/BifroMQ+Proposal.
Willem Jiang On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > Hi Calvin, > > Well admittedly I was waiting for the proposal ... Are there other IPMC > members voluntering as Mentor? You would need at least 3 (4 would be better). > I think as soon as you have reached that bar, it’s ok to start the official > incubation proposal vote etc. > > And I guess I’ll not be coming to CoC Asia, as I no longer work for Timecho, > and my new company will not finance that trip for me. I’m happy that I can go > to CoC NA at least ... so if anyone is planning to go there, that would be > awesome. > > Chris > > > > Von: Calvin Kirs <k...@apache.org> > Datum: Freitag, 28. März 2025 um 12:48 > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] BifroMQ Proposal > Hi Chris, > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 6:53 PM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I wasn’t meaning this as a general accusation. I was more just reporting a > > pattern I have been seeing in the projects I’m … or was … involved in. > > > > I quite often noticed, that communicating in English is not easy for > > everyone. Tools such as Feishu closed the gap pretty well in the projects > > that I came across it in the past (Wich were all projects with a strong > > focus on a Chinese community) … at least I was able to work with a team, > > where I knew some people simply could not or didn’t feel comfortable > > communicating in English. > > > > So if theres a company with a significant influence, it’s an easy way, to > > simply focus more and more on the tools that allow communicating easier, as > > the company needs to get stuff done. I understand that. However there must > > be a bigger understanding, that Apache still requires decisons to be done > > in a way that anyone can participate. > > > When a company relies on an open-source project for survival, they may seek > faster and more efficient ways to move forward in the short term. At this > moment, certain doors may close—language barriers, time zone differences, > and the cost of reaching consensus all become challenges. So, this isn't > just about China, but I do acknowledge that there are projects in China > facing these issues. > > On a positive note, GraphAr had a non-Chinese contributor from the very > beginning, and even after joining the incubator, he has remained an active > member of the community. > > By the way, Chris, when we were planning to incubate BiforMQ, I told the > team that if you were coming to China for this year's CoC, I’d love to > introduce you in person to explore potential collaborations within the ASF > ecosystem. And of course, if you’d be willing to mentor us, that would be > absolutely fantastic! > > > > > For example I’m a PMC member of Apache IoTDB and Apache TsFile. However, I > > have absolutely no clue what the projects are actually working on. There’s > > absolutely no discussion anywhere, where I could participate. > > > > So I want to make it clear: Being an Apache Project comes with > > expectations from our side. These are not optional and can not be omitted, > > just because of community or especially not because corporate needs dictate > > it. In that case, I would say, that Apache is currently not the place to go. > > > > Right now, Apache is simply not very welcoming to non-english communities > > … I would have loved to change this, however the one thing we’re even worse > > at, is change itself. > > > > So … I would like to say again: I would be delighted, if BifroMQ accepted > > this and embraced the way things work here and joined us. In that case I > > would be more than happy to step up as a mentor, if not even help out as > > champion. I just don’t want to invest so much time into a project, that I’m > > excluded from after graduation. > > > > Hope that explains things a bit more. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 26. März 2025 um 08:53 > > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] BifroMQ Proposal > > > There seems to be a pattern with Chinese projects, that as soon as > > graduation is over corporate interests take over and are valued higher than > > apache's. > > > > >> This is not a pattern with Chinese projects. This is a serious > > accusation, IMO, and I'm afraid this categorization creates a biased tag. > > > > I agree that we should not categorize projects in this way. In my > > opinion, it's not "This is not a pattern with Chinese projects", but > > "We don't categorize projects in this way." ASF projects grow, and we > > have healthy projects that build a worldwide community despite their > > possible "origins." > > > > To Chris: > > > > If you're wondering how BifroMQ would work, let's focus the discussion > > around it. Projects that have third-party user community channels are > > good; we have many projects that run their own Slack workspace as a > > channel under the ASF Slack workspace. Specific projects that make > > decisions off-list can need more oversight and help; you can start a > > dedicated thread for them. > > > > I understand your concern about investing time and energy but getting > > cut off later, and we have related several threads on board@ to > > discuss the pattern, no matter what other tags it may have. But I'd > > suggest we avoid a tag that may create a scarecrow or suddenly blame > > unrelated projects. > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> 于2025年3月26日周三 15:37写道： > > > > > > Hi Chris > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 2:47 PM Christofer Dutz > > > <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just asking, because for example the previous projects, that i was > > a mentor of: iotdb and answer, who's email lists I used to follow, are > > completely closed to me now. During my job at timcho I was able to access > > their feishu insurance and participate. Now, I'm just as cut off as anyone > > else. > > > > > > > > There seems to be a pattern with Chinese projects, that as soon as > > graduation is over corporate interests take over and are valued higher than > > apache's. > > > > > > The podling project is like listening to a mentor's advice before > > graduation. > > > I always told the projects I mentored that they should wear two hats > > > (one from the community and the other from the company) when they do > > > their work. > > > This is not a pattern with Chinese projects. This is a serious > > > accusation, IMO, and I'm afraid this categorization creates a biased > > > tag. > > > > > > As mentors, we can still discuss the project by sending emails > > > directly to the PMC once they graduate, and we can escalate the > > > situation if the PMC refuses to change. > > > > > > > > > > > While I was on the board I wanted to help find new ways to be more > > open to such communities, but right now these are not what Apache would > > like to have, but actually demands and should enforce more. > > > > > > > > So I don't want to invest my time in a project, that I'm cut off after > > graduation. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > Willem > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > -- > Best wishes！ > CalvinKirs --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
