Sorry I'm late back to the party boys and girls. Trivial as it may be, it's really just communication that's the only issue here, and I'm glad this has prompted a review. We all mean well and we're eager to help. The solutions Cal, Russ, Luke and co have discussed sound great.
BTW- there are two Simon's here. I'm "simon29" from the original ticket, not "Simon" from this thread. On Saturday, 11 May 2013 03:00:04 UTC+10, Simon wrote: > > Hi, > > When I started using Python a couple of months ago, a quick Google for > frameworks turned up a lot of results for Django so I decided to give it a > spin. > > I'd like to give some feedback on my experience to date. There are a lot > of features I really love, some that are a little quirky and some that are > downright inflexible. None of this will be news - it's the same for every > framework. That said, I started to have doubts when I was attempting to > find solutions/workarounds to the problems I encountered. > > Today was the 5th or 6th time that I've ended up at the ticket system and > seen people saying "This would really help me" and a core developer saying > "I don't see the need" (rather arbitrarily IMHO) and closing as wontfix. > This is invariably followed by people asking for reconsideration which in > turn gets a "use the mailing list" with varying degrees of rudeness. > > While I'm sure it's not the real reason, sending people to the mailing > lists feels like a way of brushing disagreement under the carpet. There's > no obvious way to follow on from the discussion in the ticket to the > relevant discussions in the mailing list (if any) and visitors coming by > years later now have to go and hunt through an archive to find out if > there's any chance of a change. > > I feel that the general attitude expressed in some of the tickets is poor. > The one which prompted this post is > https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/901. I think comment > 20<https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/901#comment:20> is > a good demonstration of my point. A couple of users were getting frustrated > at the lack of discussion/progress which resulted in a fairly sanctimonious > rant. > > Some other tickets I've ended up on have proposed patches and seem to have > sat in "Design decision" for years, which again gives the impression that > the core team didn't like it so just sort of ignored it until it went away. > > So, to be honest, the impression I'm getting WRT new features in Django is > "Don't bother proposing it 'cos it's not going to happen". > > There are > StackOverflow<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9791947/how-do-i-refresh-the-values-on-an-object-in-django> > > questions<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4377861/reload-django-object-from-database> > > (another<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15821581/django-how-to-refresh-or-reload-models-from-database>) > on > the topic and numerous other sources pointing at this particular ticket > wondering why it hasn't been implemented. The only reason I can see is that > "jacob" wasn't convinced by the (first) use case. > > Now, I admit that I'm probably seeing the worst side of the problem, there > are probably hundreds of other features which did get in (which is why > there's documentation not tickets for me to find) but that doesn't make the > situation I'm seeing better, just smaller. > > Perhaps the fact that people keep posting on closed tickets shows that the > current flow to the mailing lists isn't a good one? Maybe either add a > "Start a topic about this ticket" link or maybe even just allow discussion > to continue on the ticket as many others do? > > I'm unlikely to use Django moving forward. There are a number of reasons > and I'd be lying if I said this was the biggest but it was a factor in my > decision. > > Anyway, I wanted to take a few minutes and share the impressions I've had > to date - perhaps this way, others will have a better experience in future. > > Thanks for reading > > Simon > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
