On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:20 AM, orokusaki wrote:
> Q: Why do folks turn away constructive criticism with a sarcastic
> snicker?
> A: "None but the well-bred man know how to confess a fault, or
> acknowledge himself in an error."
Careful there, some devs might tweet-call troll while you're not wa
Thanks a lot for standing by your list policy here BTW.
On Apr 19, 8:23 pm, Russell Keith-Magee
wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Bitrot McGee wrote:
> > Q: When will Django finally have every feature I want?
> > A: "Ambition has its disappointments to sour us, but never the good
> > for
Since you have a PhD in computer science and you're seven years older
than me, and you work for me, for free, while I have exactly zero
computer science credits (or anything related), I think "the
internets" award goes to you.
On Apr 19, 8:23 pm, Russell Keith-Magee
wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010
I think I can play this:
Q: Why is so much valuable time wasted on insulting other people,
instead of making money?
A: "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain
stupid."
Q: Why do folks turn away constructive criticism with a sarcastic
snicker?
A: "None but the well-bred man kno
On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 15:44 -0500, Richard Laager wrote:
> In the end, *my* requirement is that I have *some place* to put
> validation code that 1) can see the whole model instance, 2) will be run
> from the admin interface, and 3) will return nice validation failures to
> the user (not throw exce
his thread will be a very good overview of the thread
Re Re Re Re Benjamin Franklin Re Re Benjamin Franklin High Level
Discussion about the Future of Django.
class reboot(High_Level_Discussion_about_the_Future_of_Django):
pass
:/
On 19 abr, 23:58, rebus_ wrote:
> On 20 April 2010 01:23, Bit
On 20 April 2010 01:23, Bitrot McGee wrote:
> Q: When will Django finally have every feature I want?
> A: "Ambition has its disappointments to sour us, but never the good
> fortune to satisfy us."
>
> Q: What the fuck is taking so long?
> A: "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of oth
Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!
- Gabriel
On Apr 19, 4:23 pm, Bitrot McGee wrote:
> Q: When will Django finally have every feature I want?
> A: "Ambition has its disappointments to sour us, but never the good
> fortune to satisfy us."
>
> Q: What the fuck is taking so long?
> A: "As we enjo
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Bitrot McGee wrote:
> Q: When will Django finally have every feature I want?
> A: "Ambition has its disappointments to sour us, but never the good
> fortune to satisfy us."
>
> Q: What the fuck is taking so long?
> A: "As we enjoy great advantages from the inventio
Realizing my original statement I was regarding this thread, in this
thread, it's obvious that this has gone completely off track. I might
have to take back everything I thought about this being useful.
If you want to address a SPECIFIC concern, it makes sense to do that
under its own topic. Think
The DVCS conversation has been had many times over the last year or two on
this list and in other places. I mention this not to say that you should
know already as it isn't clearly documented, but as a suggestion that you
should make sure that you are bringing something new and concrete to the
dis
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Don Guernsey wrote:
> How do I sign up to help? Is there an overall schematic for how django
> works?
There's no official signup process; just dig in and get your hands
dirty. General guidance on how to get started can be found here [1].
As for overall schematics
If you contribute to open source projects, at one point you'll be
faced with the forced choice to use git. It is extremely popular (I
believe it's the most popular after svn), and unlike svn it's popular
for a good reason.
However, hg is decent as well; whatever the django team chooses, as
long as
Not to start a flame war --- but PLEASE! don't use git. I already
have to use the other two leading DVCS's and all three are one too
many.
I personally prefer bazaar, but python itself and pywin32 are both
committed to mercurial. I suspect that hg would be a better choice
for most people.
--
Vern
On 19 April 2010 22:20, Don Guernsey wrote:
> How do I sign up to help? Is there an overall schematic for how django
> works?
Overview of the process.
docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/contributing/
Signup for trac.
www.djangoproject.com/accounts/register/
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On Apr 19, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Mike wrote:
> For the project of such exposure as Django the number of _active_ core
> members that actually do work on trunk and are participating in the
> decision making process is extremely small. Quick and dirty statistic
> on
> trunk commits shows that more than
Once I understand what I am doing I would have no problem putting together
an "ebb and flow" diagram with pointers to codesomething like...Step 1
Request Made--When a request is made the first thing that happens is def
AutoStart is activated, next, def SecondStart is fired (with pictures).
On
How do I sign up to help? Is there an overall schematic for how django
works?
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Gabriel Hurley wrote:
> I just want to second this suggestion from Russell:
>
> On Apr 19, 8:11 am, Russell Keith-Magee
> wrote:
>
> > Lastly, pick anything to do with documentation. T
On Apr 19, 10:19 am, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> Hi folks --
>
> I'd like to try to reboot the discussion that's been going on about
> Django's development process.
>
> I'm finding the current thread incredibly demoralizing: there's a
> bunch of frustration being expressed, and I hear that, but I'm
I have to agree with Gabriel here as I to have only recently been trying to
actively participate in the growing experience that is Django. Though I
haven't quite yet made the jump into actually contributing code yet as I'm
still coming to terms with understanding the internals of both the code and
I just want to second this suggestion from Russell:
On Apr 19, 8:11 am, Russell Keith-Magee
wrote:
> Lastly, pick anything to do with documentation. This isn't a coding
> problem, obviously, but writing up a documentation patch to clarify
> some issue will help you get to know Django's Sphinx ma
In the end, *my* requirement is that I have *some place* to put
validation code that 1) can see the whole model instance, 2) will be run
from the admin interface, and 3) will return nice validation failures to
the user (not throw exceptions that will give the user a 500 error and
send me an email).
Before I even say anything: I think the core team does a great job,
they're as fair as humanly possible in their decisions, and Django's
stability is amazing.
My disclaimer out of the way, I'd like to share my own experience of
being a new contributor just to add another perspective.
I only start
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> So: here's your chance. You have suggestions about Django's
> development process? Make them. I'm listening.
My understanding is that write access to triage stage and tickets
details is granted to everybody (even to anonymous users), an
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:24 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> Jacob, I just refreshed. Please don't kick me. I'm trying to have a
> dialogue, and I'm not trolling. Django is my life, and I want to help.
Then prove it.
Ball's in your court.
Jacob
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On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:23 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> -- No matter what industry you're in, or what your title is, your
> real job is "Sales Person". Your second job is "Customer Service", and
> finally your third job is "[Insert Job Title Here]".
Dammit, this isn't my job -- it's my fucking hobb
Jacob, I just refreshed. Please don't kick me. I'm trying to have a
dialogue, and I'm not trolling. Django is my life, and I want to help.
On Apr 19, 11:20 am, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> > Firstly, thanks to Jacob for the highly hostile nature
On a broader note, let me give you a bit of history.
I started my career as a customer service person. I managed Staples
Business Services department in my local Staples. Before I decided to
learn programming a couple years ago at 24, I learned a valuable
lesson:
-- No matter what industry you'r
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:03 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> Ok, problem solved:
When I apply this patch I get six test failures.
Jacob
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On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> Firstly, thanks to Jacob for the highly hostile nature of his bedside
> manor.
>
> Secondly, I didn't assert anything. I merely referenced the docs (I
> suppose this will be another case where you simply adjust the docs to
> mirror your recent a
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> Firstly, thanks to Jacob for the highly hostile nature of his bedside
> manor.
Please, just stop. This doesn't help.
> Secondly, I didn't assert anything. I merely referenced the docs (I
> suppose this will be another case where you simply adj
Firstly, thanks to Jacob for the highly hostile nature of his bedside
manor.
Secondly, I didn't assert anything. I merely referenced the docs (I
suppose this will be another case where you simply adjust the docs to
mirror your recent assertion)
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/misc/api-stabi
Ok, problem solved:
``Model.full_clean()``
def full_clean(self, exclude=None, validate_unique=True):
"""
Calls clean_fields, clean, and validate_unique, on the model,
and raises a ``ValidationError`` for any errors that occured.
"""
errors = {}
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM, David Zhou wrote:
>> The specific number of point releases to remain compatible with can
>> probably be quibbled over, but I think the point is that maintaining
>> across the entirety of 1.x releases wh
Jacob,
With respect, If I simply "trusted" folks, I would be:
1) making exactly 120k less per year, as my previous employers told me
to "trust" them right before they went out of business and fired
everyone
2) a lot less intelligent than I am
3) ignoring the advice of Benjamin Franklin "it is the
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:55 AM, orokusaki wrote:
> With all respect, you still haven't addressed my main concern: You
> told me that it was because of backward compatibility that this simple
> change couldn't be put in the trunk. It is backward compatible. If I'm
> wrong, it would suffice to have
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Dennis Kaarsemaker
wrote:
> I've been thinking of starting a proper contribution in django in a
> similar way: a github repo with per-ticket branches that are trunk-ready
> and regularly updated (rebased) against trunk until they are applied.
>
> So far I've only
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM, David Zhou wrote:
> The specific number of point releases to remain compatible with can
> probably be quibbled over, but I think the point is that maintaining
> across the entirety of 1.x releases when point releases take this long
> can be untenable for good forw
On ma, 2010-04-19 at 15:47 +, Peter Landry wrote:
>
>
> On 4/19/10 11:41 AM, "Jacob Kaplan-Moss" wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Peter Landry wrote:
> >> One suggestion that jumped out at me (which I admittedly know very little
> >> history about with regards to Django or oth
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Richard Laager wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 07:55 -0700, orokusaki wrote:
>> With all respect, you still haven't addressed my main concern: You
>> told me that it was because of backward compatibility that this simple
>> change couldn't be put in the trunk. It i
On 4/19/10 11:41 AM, "Jacob Kaplan-Moss" wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Peter Landry wrote:
>> One suggestion that jumped out at me (which I admittedly know very little
>> history about with regards to Django or other projects) was the "trunk
>> ready" branch(es) [1]. Perhaps an ef
Yes, thank you David.
On Apr 19, 9:38 am, David Zhou wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:19 AM, orokusaki
> > wrote:
> >> The release of Django 1.0 comes with a promise of API stability and
> >> forwards-compatibility. In a nut
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Peter Landry wrote:
> One suggestion that jumped out at me (which I admittedly know very little
> history about with regards to Django or other projects) was the "trunk
> ready" branch(es) [1]. Perhaps an effort to outline what that process might
> entail in detail
Absolutely not. I'm saying the following:
1.1 works with 1.0
1.2 works with 1.1
1.3 works with 1.2
and
1.2 works (with slight modifications) with 1.0
1.3 works (with slight modifications) with 1.1
1.4 works (with slight modifications) with 1.2
On Apr 19, 9:31 am, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:19 AM, orokusaki wrote:
>> The release of Django 1.0 comes with a promise of API stability and
>> forwards-compatibility. In a nutshell, this means that code you
>> develop against Django 1.0 will continue to
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:19 AM, orokusaki wrote:
> The release of Django 1.0 comes with a promise of API stability and
> forwards-compatibility. In a nutshell, this means that code you
> develop against Django 1.0 will continue to work against 1.1
> unchanged, and you should need to make only mi
Thanks, this advice is incredibly helpful, and your response is encouraging.
Shawn
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CURRENT VERSION OF API STABILITY POLICY:
The release of Django 1.0 comes with a promise of API stability and
forwards-compatibility. In a nutshell, this means that code you
develop against Django 1.0 will continue to work against 1.1
unchanged, and you should need to make only minor changes for an
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Peter Landry wrote:
> On 4/19/10 10:19 AM, "Jacob Kaplan-Moss" wrote:
>
>> Hi folks --
>>
>> I'd like to try to reboot the discussion that's been going on about
>> Django's development process.
>>
>> I'm finding the current thread incredibly demoralizing: there's
On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 07:55 -0700, orokusaki wrote:
> With all respect, you still haven't addressed my main concern: You
> told me that it was because of backward compatibility that this simple
> change couldn't be put in the trunk. It is backward compatible. If I'm
> wrong, it would suffice to hav
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Shawn Milochik wrote:
>
> So, I'm asking for anyone in the core (or close to it) to specifically point
> out any low-hanging fruit. This may seem on the face of it to be asking for
> others to waste time they could be spending supporting proven, trusted Django
I think that there is frustration on the part of the core dev team because
people are (intentionally or not) demanding more and more of their time in the
form of feature requests without understanding what the costs are and what
resources exist.
There is frustration on the part of some Django u
Karen,
Thanks very much. I appreciate the response.
I'll have a look into this (not to discourage anyone else from trying to beat
me to it), and post to this list if I can shed light on this issue.
Shawn
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Russell,
With all respect, you still haven't addressed my main concern: You
told me that it was because of backward compatibility that this simple
change couldn't be put in the trunk. It is backward compatible. If I'm
wrong, it would suffice to have a simple explanation of what it
breaks.
On Apr
On 4/19/10 10:19 AM, "Jacob Kaplan-Moss" wrote:
> Hi folks --
>
> I'd like to try to reboot the discussion that's been going on about
> Django's development process.
>
> I'm finding the current thread incredibly demoralizing: there's a
> bunch of frustration being expressed, and I hear that, bu
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Shawn Milochik wrote:
> So, I'm asking for anyone in the core (or close to it) to specifically
> point out any low-hanging fruit.
Off the top of my head, a ticket I saw some activity on recently but have
not had time to look into making a test/fix for:
http://
This is partially inspired by the thread that won't die: "High Level Discussion
about the Future of Django."
I want to contribute something back to Django. Specifically, I've already paid
for my hotel and flights for DjangoCon 2010 and I'm definitely going to stay
for the sprints. However, sinc
Hi folks --
I'd like to try to reboot the discussion that's been going on about
Django's development process.
I'm finding the current thread incredibly demoralizing: there's a
bunch of frustration being expressed, and I hear that, but I'm having
trouble finding any concrete suggestions. Instead,
One of the main advantages of Django over other web frameworks is
twofold:
1. Almost anything can be overridden with a custom backend (auth, e-
mail, context processors, middleware, etc.)
2. Custom backends can be plugged in side-by-side with "stock"
backends
What functionality do you feel is hol
On Monday 19 April 2010 08:50:58 Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> I was going to do a point by point teardown, but then I realized
> that I already have, at DjangoCon 2009:
>
> http://djangocon.blip.tv/file/3043562/
>
> The opening is light hearted; the hard details start about 5
> minutes in. By sh
thanks for pointing this out.
I attached a symptomatic patch to ticket #13366.
best
-- erik
Am 17.04.2010 um 14:33 schrieb Ramiro Morales:
> On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 4:38 AM, Erik Stein wrote:
>> I'd would definetly consider this a bug in django, but I've no idea how to
>> design a regressio
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM, orokusaki wrote:
> Russell,
>
> I apologize for the apparent argumentum ad nauseam. I am not trying to
> be sly. I am just looking for open dialogue about ideas and I feel
> like the door is closed and caucus is frowned upon. This is the only
> way I feel like I ca
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:10 AM, David Cramer wrote:
> I just want to throw my 2 cents into the ring here. I'm not against a
> fork, but at the same time I want to see the Django mainline progress.
> However, let me tell you my story, and how I've seen the Django
> development process over the yea
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