I have to agree with Gabriel here as I to have only recently been trying to actively participate in the growing experience that is Django. Though I haven't quite yet made the jump into actually contributing code yet as I'm still coming to terms with understanding the internals of both the code and the community. Though I am not a contributor to Django I watch the mailing lists closely and try to use the discussions to help me build up my own knowledge of the internals of both how the community works as well as how Django itself evolves. This may be a developers discussion list but there are some of us actively watching these threads who find it quite scary when a 'policy change' discussion becomes a main focus on a framework that holds a lot of peoples futures in the balance. My 2 cents.
I too will close with the very same Benjamin Franklin quote that Gabriel previously posted, as it is a very relevant situation: "We must hang together or assuredly we shall hang separately."" On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Gabriel Hurley <gab...@gmail.com> wrote: > Before I even say anything: I think the core team does a great job, > they're as fair as humanly possible in their decisions, and Django's > stability is amazing. > > My disclaimer out of the way, I'd like to share my own experience of > being a new contributor just to add another perspective. > > I only started submitting patches during the 1.2 release cycle, so I'm > still a relative newbie. In 4 months I've learned *a lot* about > Django's process and the history of thought behind many of the issues > in both the codebase and the development process. But that knowledge > wasn't easy to come by. > > I read the contributing docs twice before I even opened my first > ticket. Twice more before I submitted a single patch. > > When I finally did submit my first patch, I was terrified of getting > it wrong and having it rejected. I'd seen it happen on other tickets. > It wasn't until I got *more involved* and started keeping up with the > trac timeline--watching the ebb and flow of tickets--that I started to > understand how the tone on trac had a reason. Until you get that > perspective, it's hard to know what's right or wrong, and easy to take > things personally. The core devs can seem imposing or scary simply > because you don't know them. > > Even after reading the contributing docs and all the internals several > times, there was still a large portion of knowledge that I found only > existed outside those docs. Spending hours reading through this list's > history and through the #django-dev IRC logs have answered a lot more > of my questions. While it might seem obvious to say "go add that > information to the docs" the truth is that a lot of what new > contributors need to learn is subjective, and may not belong in > official documentation. > > I did find that the ambiguity of ticket statuses in trac made it hard > to dive right in and understand what was going on. But that's been > discussed at length. When someone has an idea for a solution there, > I'll be the first to jump in and work on it. > > If anything, my point is that getting started as a Django contributor > *can* be difficult, and the core team just being aware of that fact is > a good thing. > > That said, I have no sympathy for the malcontents. I would really > rather have seen 1.2 get released than 80+ messages on these two > threads. If complaints were patches, we'd be halfway to 1.3 by now. > > Divisiveness and ill-willed argument is stifling to creativity and > progress. I hope this post doesn't contribute to it. > > I'll close with Benjamin Franklin: "We must hang together or assuredly > we shall hang separately." > > - Gabriel > > > > On Apr 19, 7:19 am, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org> wrote: > > Hi folks -- > > > > I'd like to try to reboot the discussion that's been going on about > > Django's development process. > > > > I'm finding the current thread incredibly demoralizing: there's a > > bunch of frustration being expressed, and I hear that, but I'm having > > trouble finding any concrete suggestions. Instead, the thread has > > devolved into just going around in circles on the same small handful > > of issues. > > > > So: here's your chance. You have suggestions about Django's > > development process? Make them. I'm listening. > > > > Jacob > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers" group. > > To post to this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<django-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<django-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To post to this group, send email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en.
