Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Tom H wrote: > I'm sad that sysvinit's future seems pretty bleak but that's life. I'm not. There's so much boilerplate in sysvinit scripts, and I'm quite happy to see them replaced with something a lot simpler. The system of coded comments at the top of a shell sc

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Brian wrote: > On Tue 20 May 2014 at 09:24:02 +0200, Erwan David wrote: >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: >>> >>> You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it >>> with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. >>> >>> The

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Erwan David wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: >>> Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: > > Systemd-shim i

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 05/20/2014 03:24 AM, Erwan David wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by sys

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 09:16:41PM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: > I believe hplip is maintained by the same people who maintain CUPS. If > not the two groups are certainly in constant friendly communication. hplip is maintained by Debian HPIJS and HPLIP maintainers: pkg-hpijs-de...@lists.alioth.de

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue 20 May 2014 at 09:24:02 +0200, Erwan David wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: > > > > You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it > > with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. > > > > The list of packages depending on logind is likely

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:16:12AM CEST, Andrei POPESCU said: > On Lu, 19 mai 14, 09:46:19, Erwan David wrote: > > > > > You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have > > choice" were actually false... > > You have the choice to contribute in making Debian work with > alte

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: > > Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : > >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Lu, 19 mai 14, 09:46:19, Erwan David wrote: > > > You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have > choice" were actually false... You have the choice to contribute in making Debian work with alternatives. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:01:35AM CEST, David Dušanić said: > 19.05.2014, 10:30, "Erwan David" : > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > Excepting that some people pretend that their personal choice is the > only way to run a ciomputer and tend to enforce it to o

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

19.05.2014, 10:30, "Erwan David" :And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ?Excepting that some people pretend that their personal choice is theonly way to run a ciomputer and tend to enforce it to other.Linux is becoming  just another windows. It is no more a Unix.-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 20140519_1553+0400, Reco wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:43:21AM +0100, Brian wrote: > > On Mon 19 May 2014 at 13:04:51 +0400, Reco wrote: > > > > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > > > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > > > > > One reaso

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 20140519_1304+0400, Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > One reason IMO - PolicyKit. > > The better question is - why hplip (which is also used on print servers > which have to X installed

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 20140519_1645+0100, Brian wrote: > On Tue 20 May 2014 at 01:16:34 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Brian wrote: > > > (presumably quoting someone else's post) > > >Per 6.3.2, I use my casting vote to choose D as the winner. > > > > Sorry for the dumb qu

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: > Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić >> wrote: >>> >>> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does >>> not use it as its init system. It could be useful when y

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 03:39:00PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Mon 19 May 2014 at 15:53:50 +0400, Reco wrote: > > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:43:21AM +0100, Brian wrote: > > > > > > If you wish to run a headless print server, we now ship the independent > > > packages of hpijs and hplip-cups,

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Brian wrote: > The section number: > >https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution > > The context and the mail I quoted from: > >https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708 > Thanks! That's what I was missing. ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue 20 May 2014 at 01:16:34 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Brian wrote: > > (presumably quoting someone else's post) > >Per 6.3.2, I use my casting vote to choose D as the winner. > > Sorry for the dumb question, but what does the section number refer > t

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Brian wrote: > (presumably quoting someone else's post) >Per 6.3.2, I use my casting vote to choose D as the winner. Sorry for the dumb question, but what does the section number refer to? I feel I've missed some context here. ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, em

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon 19 May 2014 at 09:46:19 +0200, Erwan David wrote: > Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić > > wrote: > >> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does > >> not use it as its init system. It could be useful w

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon 19 May 2014 at 15:53:50 +0400, Reco wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:43:21AM +0100, Brian wrote: > > > > If you wish to run a headless print server, we now ship the independent > > packages of hpijs and hplip-cups, which do not require the full hplip > > depends. > > Thanks, but

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:43:21AM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Mon 19 May 2014 at 13:04:51 +0400, Reco wrote: > > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > > > One reason IMO - PolicyKit. > > > > The better question i

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon 19 May 2014 at 13:04:51 +0400, Reco wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > One reason IMO - PolicyKit. > > The better question is - why hplip (which is also used on print servers > which have to X in

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Hi. On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:30:45AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? One reason IMO - PolicyKit. The better question is - why hplip (which is also used on print servers which have to X installed) is depending on PolicyKit (which is desktop-only gi

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Hi. On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 06:16:20PM +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > I hope that's true only of GTK+3. I have a GTK2 application which I > personally run under Xfce, and which I support on all Linux desktop > environments, plus Windows and Mac OS. Given that Xfce is GTK+2 desktop environment I

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 09:47:40AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: > Le 19/05/2014 07:56, Reco a écrit : > It means that GTK is now a gnome only thing and that all programs using > gtk are to be used *only* under gnome. Yep, indeed. And, as I said, this can be the reason to avoid GTK+3 applications if n

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 19/05/2014 10:05, David Dušanić a écrit : > > > 19.05.2014, 00:21, "Tom H" : >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić >> mailto:ivanovne...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a >> system that does >> not use it as its

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Erwan David wrote: > Le 19/05/2014 07:56, Reco a écrit : >> Hi. >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 08:51:13PM +0200, Filip wrote: >> >>> There are other reasons to boycot GNOME though. Look at the latest >>> 'feature' in they put in GTK+ 3.12: >>> >>> http://redmine.aud

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

  19.05.2014, 00:21, "Tom H" :On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on Gnome 3 software like network-manager but do

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 19/05/2014 07:56, Reco a écrit : > Hi. > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 08:51:13PM +0200, Filip wrote: > >> There are other reasons to boycot GNOME though. Look at the latest >> 'feature' in they put in GTK+ 3.12: >> >> http://redmine.audacious-media-player.org/boards/1/topics/1135 > The misfeature i

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: >> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does >> not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on Gnome 3 >> software like network-manager but do not w

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Hi. On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 08:51:13PM +0200, Filip wrote: > There are other reasons to boycot GNOME though. Look at the latest > 'feature' in they put in GTK+ 3.12: > > http://redmine.audacious-media-player.org/boards/1/topics/1135 The misfeature in question is: a) Already fixed in GTK+ 3.12.

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sun 18 May 2014 at 19:43:19 +0100, Brian wrote: > The substantive part of my mail debunks the claim that GDM necessarily > imposes a specific init system. It is correct to say that gdm3 depends > on libpam-systemd, but installing systemd-shim leaves a sysvinit system > without any change in PID

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: > > Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does > not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on Gnome 3 > software like network-manager but do not want to use systemd. AFAIUI: It's not c

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, 19 May 2014 04:11:29 +1000 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:43 AM, Brian wrote: > > I'm with Sven here. Install systemd-shim and systemd-sysv will not > > be installed. > > > > One consideration might be > > > > https://lists.debian.org/1399888483.5437.804.camel@dsp069

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sun 18 May 2014 at 20:03:11 +0200, Erwan David wrote: > Le 18/05/2014 19:43, Brian a écrit : > > On Sat 17 May 2014 at 22:40:13 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > >> On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:57:39, Sven Joachim wrote: > >>> Depending on your needs, installing systemd might be mandatory in > >>> uns

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:43 AM, Brian wrote: > I'm with Sven here. Install systemd-shim and systemd-sysv will not be > installed. > > One consideration might be > > https://lists.debian.org/1399888483.5437.804.camel@dsp0698014 > > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-s

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 18/05/2014 19:43, Brian a écrit : > On Sat 17 May 2014 at 22:40:13 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >> On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:57:39, Sven Joachim wrote: >>> Depending on your needs, installing systemd might be mandatory in >>> unstable already (e.g. gdm3 indirectly depends on it), but you do _not_ >

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat 17 May 2014 at 22:40:13 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:57:39, Sven Joachim wrote: > > > > Depending on your needs, installing systemd might be mandatory in > > unstable already (e.g. gdm3 indirectly depends on it), but you do _not_ > > have to install systemd-sysv and

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

  17.05.2014, 22:29, "Erwan David" :Le 17/05/2014 22:02, Tom H a écrit : On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Erwan David wrote: Le 17/05/2014 20:57, Sven Joachim a écrit : On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. At

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote: > 2014-05-17 21:54 keltezéssel, Tom H írta: >>> I have servers running Jessie. Can I continue upgrading packages on a >>> regular basis, without having to worry that one of these updates will >>> uninstall half of my system and install systemd

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 09:17:46PM -0400, Theodore Alcapotaxis wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: Martin Vegter > > Sent: 05/18/14 01:58 AM > > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > > Subject: systemd situation in Jesssie > > > > Hello, >

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 08:37:38PM -0400, Ric Moore wrote: > On 05/17/2014 02:57 PM, Sven Joachim wrote: > >On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. > >>At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Wi

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

2014-05-17 21:54 keltezéssel, Tom H írta: >> I have servers running Jessie. Can I continue upgrading packages on a >> regular basis, without having to worry that one of these updates will >> uninstall half of my system and install systemd instead (and make my >> servers unbootable) ? > > On unstab

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 09:17:46PM -0400, Theodore Alcapotaxis wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: Martin Vegter > > Sent: 05/18/14 01:58 AM > > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > > Subject: systemd situation in Jesssie > > > > Hello, >

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sb, 17 mai 14, 18:30:02, The Wanderer wrote: > On 05/17/2014 03:40 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > > Actually gdm3 Depends: libpam-systemd, which Depends: systemd-sysv, > > so yes, you do. network-manager and gnome-bluetooth also depend on > > libpam-systemd. > > Is this in unstable or experim

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

> - Original Message - > From: Martin Vegter > Sent: 05/18/14 01:58 AM > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: systemd situation in Jesssie > > Hello, > > I have servers running Jessie. Can I continue upgrading packages on a > regular basis, witho

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 05/17/2014 02:57 PM, Sven Joachim wrote: On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: Hello, I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes stable? D

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/17/2014 03:40 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:57:39, Sven Joachim wrote: > >> On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. At >>> the mome

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 22:24, Tom H a écrit : > For policy-rc.d: > > What are you doing with it? > > > Mainly checking that some encrypted disk is mounted for the corresponding daemons to be started or not. And No, this encrypted disk is NOT mounted at boot, since I want this machine to be able to boot com

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 22:18, Filip a écrit : > On Sat, 17 May 2014 22:45:53 +0300 > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >> On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:20:28, Erwan David wrote: >>> I do not know, I check at upgrade time. And Is there somewhere a >>> migaration doc explaining what to do to replace invoke-rc.d, >> invoke-rc.d

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 22:02, Tom H a écrit : > On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Erwan David wrote: >> Le 17/05/2014 20:57, Sven Joachim a écrit : >>> On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. At the moment, I can install Jessie wi

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Erwan David wrote: > Le 17/05/2014 19:58, Martin Vegter a écrit : >> >> I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. >> At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, >> or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes sta

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, 17 May 2014 22:45:53 +0300 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:20:28, Erwan David wrote: > > > > > I do not know, I check at upgrade time. And Is there somewhere a > > migaration doc explaining what to do to replace invoke-rc.d, > > invoke-rc.d is only meant for scripts, you sho

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 21:45, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : > On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:20:28, Erwan David wrote: >> I do not know, I check at upgrade time. And Is there somewhere a >> migaration doc explaining what to do to replace invoke-rc.d, > invoke-rc.d is only meant for scripts, you should be using service >

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 2014-05-17 21:21 +0200, Erwan David wrote: > Le 17/05/2014 20:57, Sven Joachim a écrit : >> On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. >>> At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay s

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Erwan David wrote: > Le 17/05/2014 20:57, Sven Joachim a écrit : >> On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: >>> >>> I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. >>> At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, >>> o

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sb, 17 mai 14, 21:21:01, Erwan David wrote: > > So systemd-sysv is the real systemd ? or is there someting else ? systemd-sysv contains a /sbin/init symlink pointing to /lib/systemd/systemd. This will make your system boot with systemd. If you just want to test it you should rather just ins

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Martin Vegter wrote: > > I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. > At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, > or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes stable? > > I have servers running Jessie. Can I con

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:20:28, Erwan David wrote: > > > I do not know, I check at upgrade time. And Is there somewhere a > migaration doc explaining what to do to replace invoke-rc.d, invoke-rc.d is only meant for scripts, you should be using service (which works fine with both initscripts and syste

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On Sb, 17 mai 14, 20:57:39, Sven Joachim wrote: > On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. > > At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, > > or will this change somewhere before Je

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 20:57, Sven Joachim a écrit : > On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. >> At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, >> or will this change somewhere before Jessie becom

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

On 2014-05-17 19:58 +0200, Martin Vegter wrote: > Hello, > > I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. > At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, > or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes stable? Depending on your needs, installing syst

Re: systemd situation in Jesssie

Le 17/05/2014 19:58, Martin Vegter a écrit : > Hello, > > I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. > At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, > or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes stable? > > I have servers running Jessie. Can I cont

systemd situation in Jesssie

Hello, I am wondering whether systemd will be mandatory in Jessie. At the moment, I can install Jessie without systemd. Will this stay so, or will this change somewhere before Jessie becomes stable? I have servers running Jessie. Can I continue upgrading packages on a regular basis, without havin