On 11/24/2014 1:14 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 08:18 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> And while Wheezy will still be supported for a couple of years, it's not
>> necessarily the answer. While many people don't want the "latest and
>> greatest", they also don't want the "oldest and baddest".
On 11/24/2014 1:08 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 11/24/2014 1:00 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
>> lot of
>> dedicated
On 11/24/2014 12:37 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 03:26, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Fergu
On 11/24/2014 12:22 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 03:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
>
On 11/24/2014 08:18 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And while Wheezy will still be supported for a couple of years, it's not
necessarily the answer. While many people don't want the "latest and
greatest", they also don't want the "oldest and baddest".
Sounds like your customers need to either pay fo
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
lose a lot of d
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro.
On 25/11/14 03:36, Curt wrote:
> On 2014-11-24, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>>> Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts.
>>
>> Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the
>> fictitious "Wild West"? I can only apologise of my ignorance of "popular
>> c
On 25/11/14 03:26, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you expect customers to build
On 24/11/14 16:30, The Wanderer wrote:
I do not have links to specific messages, since I don't habitually work
with or enjoy browsing through Web archives of mailing lists, and since
I've never understood (or even understood how to make practical use of)
the "message links" - looking outwardly si
On 25/11/14 03:13, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
> lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decis
On 2014-11-24, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> Some of them came to Debian because it was one of the last holdouts.
>
> Is that a reference to a term used in a television show about the
> fictitious "Wild West"? I can only apologise of my ignorance of "popular
> culture" (long story - I haven't watched
On 11/24/2014 11:01 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 02:01, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
>>> On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the "Debian way" to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
>>>
>>>
On 11/24/2014 at 10:37 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 00:53, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> It's illogical to upgrade and not expect change - even when
>>> electing (as Debian allows) to retain the same init system.
>>
>> It's illogical to
On 11/24/2014 10:52 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
>> lose a lot of d
On 11/24/2014 10:05 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another
fork, or possibly
On 25/11/14 02:01, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
>> On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> And exactly what is the "Debian way" to add custom (NOT customized
>>> pre-packaged) software to the system?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into
On 25/11/14 01:57, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will
> lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly
>
On 25/11/14 00:53, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
>
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was
announced. I have yet to have a single problem
On 25/11/14 00:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a
>>> lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another
>>> fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
>>
>>
On 11/24/2014 8:58 AM, Martin Read wrote:
> On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> And exactly what is the "Debian way" to add custom (NOT customized
>> pre-packaged) software to the system?
>
> As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the "Debian way"
> for installing custom soft
On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro. B
On 24/11/14 13:25, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
And exactly what is the "Debian way" to add custom (NOT customized
pre-packaged) software to the system?
As far as I can tell, the obvious things that go into the "Debian way"
for installing custom software are:
1) If your software isn't installed via
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
1. At best that's pure speculation. W
On 11/24/2014 at 02:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>> Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced.
>>> I have yet to have a single problem with it.
>>
>> What about all of those people wit
On 11/24/2014 2:56 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of
>> dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or
>> possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users.
>
> 1. At best that's pure speculation. With all due
On 11/23/2014 11:25 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
>>> On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 08:16:29AM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
systemd supports sysvinit init scripts (that have the LSB headers which
are already mandatory in wheezy) just fine. Not doing so would be a bug,
of course.
I have initscripts without LSB headers working just fine. There are
On 24/11/14 13:20, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> That is the huge majority of Debian users.
>>> Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
>>> expected.
Apropos of what? That "surpris
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 09:20:52PM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> What about all of those people with custom software running which relies
> on sysv init for starting? There are a lot of those systems out there -
> and every one of them will need work to conform to systemd.
Some may well work with
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 06:20:42PM -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> This isn't only about patches to Debian packages. This is also about
> custom code many people have installed and set up to work with sysv
> init. These will fail with systemd,
These *might* fail with systemd.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE,
Le dimanche, 23 novembre 2014, 21.20:52 Jerry Stuckle a écrit :
> On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
> > On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> > That is the huge majority of Debian users.
> >
> >> Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't
> >> work as expecte
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 05:25:58AM CET, Ric Moore said:
> On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
> >>On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >> That is the huge majority of Debian users.
> >>>Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade a
On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Like what?? I first installed syste
On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> That is the huge majority of Debian users.
>> Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
>> expected.
>
> Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
Andrew McGlashan writes:
You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
...and you are deluded if
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
That is the huge majority of Debian users.
Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as
expected.
Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have
yet to have a single problem with it.
Many wil
On 11/23/2014 5:29 PM, seeker5528 wrote:
>
> On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> We're not talking non-technical people here. We are talking companies
>> with ITcd departments managing multiple servers and desktops. We are
>> talking small companies who contract their IT services. We ar
On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
We're not talking non-technical people here. We are talking companies
with ITcd departments managing multiple servers and desktops. We are
talking small companies who contract their IT services. We are talking
individual users running their own serve
On 11/23/2014 2:20 PM, seeker5528 wrote:
>
> On 11/23/2014 9:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people
>> who don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian
>> users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things
On 11/23/2014 1:15 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 23 nov 14, 12:17:00, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>> What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people who
>> don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian users.
>
> I agree that they are the majority.
>
>> Some
On 11/23/2014 9:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people
who don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian
users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things
don't work as expected.
That's how it works wit
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On 24/11/2014 4:17 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
>> Andrew McGlashan writes:
>>> You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
>>> what is allowed to be received via the debian-user l
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On 24/11/2014 3:38 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Andrew McGlashan writes:
>> I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is
>> that so hard to understand?
>
> What's hard to understand is why I should give a damn.
Ditto on why I should g
On Du, 23 nov 14, 12:17:00, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
> What I see missing in these discussions is the vast number of people who
> don't monitor the lists. That is the huge majority of Debian users.
I agree that they are the majority.
> Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things do
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Andrew McGlashan writes:
>> You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
>> what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
>
> What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
>
>> ...and you ar
Andrew McGlashan writes:
> You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
> what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list...
What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information?
> ...and you are deluded if you think the problem only concerns a sma
Andrew McGlashan writes:
> I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is that so
> hard to understand?
What's hard to understand is why I should give a damn.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
w
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:01:44AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>
> I DO NOT WANT SYSTEMD ON ANY SYSTEM THAT I ADMINISTRATE ... is that so
> hard to understand?
Loud and clear - So DON'T INSTALL it then! You're ranting because of
philisophical differences, and that my friend isn't for -user. Y
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On 23/11/2014 7:53 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> How many people subscribe to this list?
> How many people follow the various reposting of this list?
Sorry Scott, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The assumptions you are making a
On 23/11/14 19:07, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote:
>> Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
>>> But they are anathema to the "We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
>>> futile" crowd.
>
>> And then there is the "Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill!" crowd who jump
>> into ev
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On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
>> But they are anathema to the "We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
>> futile" crowd.
>
> And then there is the "Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill!" crowd who jump
> into eve
On Sb, 22 nov 14, 22:49:48, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
> At the moment I have removed systemd from my jessie system. It is,
> despite the absence of systemd, a Debian Jessie system.
Sure.
> In fact, refracta, one of the so-called forks that avoids systemd,
> actuallu uses Debian's own Jessie pac
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
> But they are anathema to the "We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
> futile" crowd.
And then there is the "Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill!" crowd who jump
into every mention of Systemd to piss and moan about the other crowd,
which then retaliates. While I can and
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:49:48 + (UTC)
Hendrik Boom wrote:
> But it is absurd to say that discussing these real problems faced by
> Debian users, and their potential remedies, is off topic in the debian-
> user mailing list.
Of course they are not.
But they are anathema to the "We are system
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:54:56 +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> On 05/11/2014 17:02, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
>> Miles,
>>
>> Le mercredi, 5 novembre 2014, 09.32:57 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
>>> [If you're happy with systemd, and not considering a change - please
>>> stay out of this discussion. If
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