LVM support in runtime:
kldload geom_linux_lvm
I asked this in April [1] but didn't get any response.
[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2012/04/msg00232.html
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obviously do not want to dictate how you should spend your time, but
> is kfreebsd already working so well that you are bored?
Depends on the time of the week. Sometimes I'm having a lot of fun,
and sometimes I'm so bored that I'd even reply to an obvious flamebait
for no reas
at.h
sys/compat/linux/linux_videodev.h
sys/compat/linux/linux_videodev_compat.h
in kfreebsd-9 source.
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create a file system, or just tells Linux to
do so? If it works like zfsutils, then there's no usable code for
other kernels (but I haven't checked).
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kFreeBSD provides readonly reiserfs support.
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Archive:
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Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: pcbsd-netmanager
* URL : see below
* License : 3-clause BSD (with some MIT/X11 parts)
Programming Lang: C++ (Qt)
Description : PC-BSD Network Manager
Graphical (Qt) Network Configuration utility of the PC-BSD project
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: apt-clone
Version : 0.7.9nexenta28
* URL : see below
* License : CDDL
Programming Lang: Perl
Description : ZFS integrated APT package handling utility
apt-clone is the command-line tool for handling package
be an interesting question would it?
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ay about this?
I don't think the purpose of your question is concluding the debate, I
think it just tries to enforce your point of view by presenting your
goal as an accepted premise.
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consistent.
However, since this is basically cosmetical and the effect is the
same, I don't think it's worth sending an update to each of the bug
reports. But if you still want it, feel free to, I have no objection.
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if the proposal is to replace
sysvinit with systemd, that wouldn't force removal of any non-Linux
port. It'd be an annoying inconvenient though, as it'd just make it
diverge a bit more than it already does.
Have you considered InitNG instead? It seems to have similar goals as
upst
repository,
> so their next upload will make use of wildcard archs
Thanks! I'm removing them from my list.
> - kradio4
> I can do a QA upload for it
Nice, please let me know when you do.
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with a
s instead. For example:
Build-Depends: libfoo-dev [kfreebsd-any]
Thanks!
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I forgot to CC debian-hurd, please follow-up there too.
2011/7/16 Robert Millan :
> Title and template description (below) is self-explanatory. 156
> packages are affected (list is attached).
>
> Package: %package%
> Severity: wishlist
> User: debian-...@lists.debian.org
&g
correct way
would be to use dpkg architecture wildcards, e.g.:
Build-Depends: libfoo-dev [linux-any]
Please consider making this adjustment to make life easier for future
porting efforts.
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linux-any.list
Description: Binary data
tc.
I think best way is to report this and let each maintainer decide what is best.
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.
Good point. Then I think I'll just analize some of those packages
(when I think they're important enough to spend the time) and report
bugs only on a case-by-case basis.
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with a subject of "u
e" because fuse-utils is now a transitional package that
depends on fuse)
Else if %package% depends on fuse-utils because it can't work at all without
fusermount, please reply to this bug report so we can try to find a solution.
Thanks!
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2011/7/16 Mike Hommey :
> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 04:10:18PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> There are 23 packages in unstable which can't be installed on Debian
>> GNU/kFreeBSD because of their unconditional dependency on fuse-utils.
>> On this pla
ecifically on
the semantics of fusermount.
- A package may have a versioned dependency, in which case an
alternate dependency is still needed.
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f the command-line functionality
in that package (and not just to obtain a FUSE daemon), please reply to this
bug report so we can try to find a solution.
Thanks!
Please let me know of any suggestions or concerns you may have.
Please keep debian-bsd on CC, I'm not subscribed to debian-devel.
,
Just for completeness, I disagree with the GNU part.
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Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: mingw-w64
* URL : http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/
* License : GPL, LGPL, ZPL, etc...
Programming Lang: C, amd64 asm
Description : Minimalist GNU w64 (cross) runtime
This package contains the
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: dragonegg
Version : SVN snapshot
Upstream Author : Duncan Sands
* URL : http://dragonegg.llvm.org/
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: C
Description : GCC plugin that uses LLVM for
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: multiboot
Version : 0.6.96
Upstream Author : GNU project
* URL : http://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/grub/
* License : GPLv2+
Programming Lang: Texinfo for the manual
C and i8086
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 09:28:03AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 07 décembre 2009 à 01:43 +0100, Robert Millan a écrit :
> > modem-cmd can be used to send arbitrary AT commands to a modem device
> > over a serial line.
> > .
> > For example:
> >
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 02:14:52AM +, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 01:43 +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Robert Millan
> >
> > * Package name: modem-cmd
> > Version : 0.0
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: modem-cmd
Version : 0.0.1
Upstream Author : me
* URL : none yet, debian-native
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: C
Description : send arbitrary AT commands to your modem
modem-cmd
Package: wnpp
Owner: Robert Millan
Severity: wishlist
* Package name: jclicmoodle
Version : 0.1.0.8
Upstream Author : Sara Arjona Téllez
* URL : http://projectes.lafarga.cat/projects/jclicmoodle
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: PHP
Description : JClic
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: dbus-c++
Version : GIT snapshot
* URL : http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus-c%2B%2B
* License : LGPL 2.1
Programming Lang: C++
Description : C++ API for D-BUS
This package
phen Gran |
> | : :' :sg...@debian.org |
> | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer |
> |`- http://www.debian.org |
> -
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s
> and more.
Hi Goswin,
I think reprepro serves a different purpose. It actively manages your
packages and keeps an internal database of their metadata. Vsag is designed
to be stateless, and to avoid managing the directory containing packages
themselves (one might wish to manage it by hand,
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 03:44:38AM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 22:18:51 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Robert Millan
> >
> > * Package name: vsag
> > Version
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:42:22PM +, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2009-05-19, Robert Millan wrote:
> > * Package name: vsag
> > Version : 0.0.1
> > Upstream Author : Robert Millan
> > * URL : not yet released
> > * License :
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: vsag
Version : 0.0.1
Upstream Author : Robert Millan
* URL : not yet released
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: bash, make
Description : Very Simple Archive Generator
Vsag is a
says /boot/stage2 could not read correctly..
> >
> >
> > Please help me,
> > I'm struggling for this for long time
> >
> >
> > with regards
> >
> > Ravi
> >
> > <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail
aintain it, I don't see why it'd be a problem to keep it.
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The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data an
or h8300-hitachi-coff)
gcc-m68hc1x - GNU C compiler for the Motorola 68HC11/12 processors
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan
* Package name: gcc-mingw32
Version : 4.4
* URL : http://gcc.gnu.org/
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: C
Description : The GNU C compiler (cross compiler for MingW32)
Build of GCC for MingW32
looking forward to a fully free linux-2.6 in Squeeze that will make
Linux-libre unnecessary for Debian users. In the meantime, Lenny users who
want to run a free system also have an option. I guess we made everyone happy
already? :-)
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data bel
t not running
> non-free software, does that provide any real gain/benefit/improvement
> over running a kernel full of request_firmware() calls [...]
Personally I don't think it does; others (e.g. RMS) tend to prefer removing
request_firmware(), but I don't think anyone has a str
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:52:45AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Robert Millan wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As you probably know, back in December last year it was decided [1] that the
> > Linux package shipped
n a separate thread in
-legal. I gave my personal opinion there. Btw the license change comes from
upstream, not Debian. It's obvious Hubert has his own reasons for doing it,
but whichever they are they're off-topic here.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belon
license
version can be updated by recipients of the code, and that keeping the old
license blob around is not a must; is this correct? Does section 12 of LGPL
2.1 work the same way? If not, where's the difference?
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to
7;m fine with extra clarification, for the sake of
correctness, it just means a bit more work. I'll speak with the gnote
author about it.
> and a
> clear violation of Tomboy's license.
Notice license and copyright statements are two separate issues. AFAIK
LGPL doesn't explicit
gt; - until then, GNote cannot be considered
> suitable for Debian.
Sure. Btw, I'm adding debian-legal to CC, perhaps they can provide some
insight (as you know, when there are doubts about legal stuff it is
considered good practice to discuss things in that list).
Cheers
--
Robert
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:52:22PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 08:03:46PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> >
> > I'd also like to complain about the title text of the initial GR. It is
> > clearly manipulative, as it pretends to be merely describin
learly manipulative, as it pretends to be merely describing the proposed
changes when in fact it is asserting an opinion. I hope the Secretary
will fix this.
And if that's too much to ask, then I hope voters will read carefuly and
won't fall for such an easy trick.
--
Robert Millan
T
in separate ballots. This doesn't change anything I said
in this mail, nor make me feel that his decisions as secretary are somehow
illegitimate.
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but no
02665
http://bugs.debian.org/502666
http://bugs.debian.org/502667
http://bugs.debian.org/502669
I hope this helps everyone pick the options they feel most comfortable with.
Sincerely,
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) y
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* Package name: freecad
Version : 0.7.1672
* URL :
http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page
* License : LGPLv2.1+
Programming Lang: C++, Python
Descr
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 05:41:05PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 03:51:22PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:23:50PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 21 October 2008, you wrote:
> > > > But, in fact, fixes
ublic, please stop this and come back to more constructive
> discussions).
And I take it that Thomas is supposed to take your attitude as an example
on how being constructive?
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may acce
ting anything simpler.
>
> Ever hear of the Technical Committee?
The Technical Committee is not empowered to override foundation documents.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threa
I can't believe those come from the same people who keep this as one of
their official songs:
http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#39
Our contradictions might not be so unique to Debian after all ...
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 12:23:20PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 20:18 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > Apparently, our control structures are not reliable enough to _enforce_
> > what we have decided. It seems we relied primarily on the release team
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:46:18PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It seems we relied primarily on the release team, which has betrayed
> > the goals of the project,
>
> I do not accept to be calle
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:48:57AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 16:08 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:41:16AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > >
> > > Has the current release team lowered the bar on Debia
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:16:12PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> You cannot ask, so late in the release process,
Some of these bugs have been known for *years*. In one of them, I even got
a reply saying something along the lines of "I was expecting this one".
--
Robert M
.html btw, would be really nice
if it can be fast-tracked.
[3] that means either sanctioned by the maintainers or by the DPL
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 04:21:24PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 20 octobre 2008 à 16:08 +0200, Robert Millan a écrit :
> > > Has the current release team lowered the bar on Debian actually
> > > trying to follow the social contract?
> >
>
nding a name, I think "Blobbie" is
a pretty one.
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not access it at
ecided to look the other way:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=497823
Btw, I'm looking for supporters for a GR to stop this gross violation of the
SC. Any DDs who read this, please let me know if you're interested.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "
compiling the firmware used in Linux' dsp56k.c driver.
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not access it at
to be patent-encumbered, we're sending a message claiming that it is not. I
don't appreciate the Moonlight folks trying to use Debian for this purpose.
Whatever the choice is, let us at least be consistent...
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will
istributors.
>
> Such convenience services already exist (debian-multimedia.org,
> debian-unofficial.org), Debian doesn't need to start one.
But they don't get the associated benefits of being officially part of
Debian, like BTS and such.
(which contrib and non-free do *g*)
--
their tax and politely let you know that you have to pay as
well.
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Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not acc
and our users don't
really miss anything if we don't ship it.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 04:44:40PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> At the very least, we could distribute them in a specific "patented"
> >> section, with rules similar to non-free, and that we’d only mi
Btw, please keep in mind that the description issues I pointed out are
relatively unimportant compared to legal risk (and I haven't seen that
being discussed in debian-legal yet).
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 03:32:48PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 12:38:41AM +
hat might be necessary to implement 1.0, beyond what is currently published
on the web; [...]"
http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Sep-05.html
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody
ry least, we could distribute them in a specific "patented"
> section, with rules similar to non-free, and that we’d only mirror in
> countries where it is not a problem.
While we are at it, would be nice to have a section for DMCA-impaired software
such as libdvdcss.
--
Robert Milla
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 11:05:58AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tuesday 07 October 2008 09:03, Robert Millan wrote:
> > Unclaimed patents are precisely the reason we don't have any MPEG encoders
> > in Debian (see http://techliberation.com/2006/05/11/mpeg-pa
ve this kind of problem.
> ** Note, apologies to debian-devel@ for the offtopic nature of these
> messages, my reply is aimed at debian-devel only for mailing list
> archive purposes **
It is standard practice to CC debian-devel in new ITPs. Though, as I said
for legal discussions
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 03:33:48PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> [2] http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx
Btw, an independent analisys of that covenant is available:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080528133529454
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 03:24:26PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > Description : open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight
> >
> > [...]
>
> Hi,
>
> The description is misleading. This is (AFAICT) not an implementation of a
> standard but a c
terop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all."
--
To UNSUBSC
bs from Microsoft. Unfortunately they aren't very
explicit about what the problem is, but it is certain there is one, so
please find that out, and have it discussed in debian-legal.
Thanks
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide
elf (main) and the other archives we provide
/support as a supplement to Debian.
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your dat
On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 10:11:32AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> As Robert Millan brought to my attention, in my enthusiasm to present
> our progress towards fully Lenny support for the Eee in the best
> possible light, my announcement muddied the distinction between Lenny
> and non
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 08:46:36PM +0200, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 20:36:17 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
>
> > This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address this?
>
> Stop trolling about utterly uninteresting details?
I think it'
> : Components: main contrib non-free
> : Description: Debian x.y Testing distribution - Not Released
>
> So lenny is made from main (Debian), contrib and non-free.
Therefore Lenny is not Debian, but a superset of it?
This is troubling. Do you have any suggestions on how to address th
Hi,
Please could you aim at 4.58beta instead? It's the first version that can
be used by grub-pc for compression of boot blocks.
See:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2008-07/msg00036.html
thanks
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to u
[ adding debian-project ]
On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 01:53:54PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:28:19AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> >
> > Earliest Eee models fully supported in Lenny
> >
> >Lenny will release with the atl2 ether
non-free is not part of Debian. Check the Social Contract.
Friendly,
--
Robert Millan
The DRM opt-in fallacy: "Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and
how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we
still allow you to remove your data and not ac
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* Package name: seabios
Version : 0.2.3
Upstream Author : Kevin O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://linuxtogo.org/~kevin/legacybios/
* License : GPL
Programmi
. Who's the copyright holder? gpg? The authors
of gpg? The person who typed gpg in command-line? The entropy source?
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I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
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des security.
This ITP is not about making it simpler.
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I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
--
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with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 10:34:15PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> Robert Millan wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 03:52:12PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> >> I'm still not that sure if its a good idea to add a non-offical debian repo
> >> keyring into the archive... B
his sound fine to you?
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I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What good is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
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: GPLv2+
Description : GnuPG archive key of the backports.org repository
Alexander, please let me know if you have any objection to this key being
added to the archive, or if you would like to be the maintainer for this
package or just the upstream (either way is fine with me).
--
Robert Millan
7;t know if it's possible, but you might want to try to link it to
> GNUTLS [1] instead.
GNUTLS has an OpenSSL portability layer, but it is not complete. It would
require some porting work.
Btw, the build system in ircd-charybdis considers OpenSSL an optional
dependency. If it's an o
el is not the most indicate place.
- Have you based your code on the currently existing check in
02-64bit-autodetection.dpatch? It is best to reuse known-working code
for this. If you want a C-friendly version, you can use cpuid.c from
the win32-loader package (it derives from GCC and h
Package: general
Severity: wishlist
I'm creating this bug to track support for playing blu-ray discs in Debian's
default desktop install.
I'll add related bugs as blockers to this one (and welcome others to do the
same).
-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
APT prefers stable
APT polic
s been
silence. And the usual way to deal with silence is to interpret it as lack
of time rather than refusal (and accordingly send a polite offer to NMU).
--
Robert Millan
"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
legal evasion of the license [...]. That&#x
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 01:19:58PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
>
> And most importantly, you wouldn't contemplate deploying somewhere else an
> implementation of triggers that hasn't been accepted in dpkg, because of the
> danger of creating (and maintaining) a sustained inc
>From my POV, this means you were already challenging Guillem way before
starting this thread.
[1] for your amusement, this happened to me on dpkg:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=355654#10
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=440636#5
--
Robert Millan
I know
Not sure if that's what you were looking for (i.e. a specific
feature introduced with cdbs 0.4.38), but you can cook that up
on your own.
See how grub2 package does it for an example.
--
Robert Millan
I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What use is a phone call, if you are unab
aint.html .
Why -j3 ? It's already quite an effort to aim for -j2. Shouldn't we try to
fix those first?
--
Robert Millan
I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED
ike distributors to package unreleased versions
of emacs (I assume either because of the support burden or because bugs in
these snapshots might affect their reputation).
I would suggest getting in touch with them first to see what they think.
--
Robert Millan
I know my rights; I want my phone call!
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