[opensource-dev] 3D soound

[Lee ponzu]

I saw this cool demo of 3D sound.  This is totally different from the SL
Voice technology, and I think it would compliment it perfectly.

Take a look...

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=princeton+3D+sound

The basic idea is that stereo gives a weak illusion of 3D.  You have the
left signal, ls, and the right signal, rs.  A filter computes

rs_new = rs - ls
ls_new = ls - rs

and then play rs_new and ls_new.  (Details left as an exercise...)

In English---when you record in stereo, you record cross talk between the
mics which is recreated when you play back.  This idea removes the cross
talk, and dramatically increases the 3D illusion.  It is a simple filter and
works totally at playback time on all sound sources and any stereo
recording.  It would be easy to add it to the viewer...

Just an idea.
ponzu
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[opensource-dev] Question about DD philosophy.

[Lee ponzu]

I have sometimes wondered why this is not more automagic, or maybe why the
magic approach doesn't work well enough.

Suppose my DD is set to 256.  Upon detecting a poor FPS, the viewer could
remember the DD, and then reduce it temporarily to 32.  As FPS becomes
acceptable, it increases it little by little until it is 256 again.  Is
there not code sort of like that already in there?  (I know, I could go
look, but I have fallen way behind on the source code and the builds, so all
I do now is kvetch from the outside).

A similar approach would be to slowly adjust the DD to keep FPS acceptable.

It seems like these DD slider changes are exactly giving the user a manual
way to do this. Why not just have the viewer do it?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Question about DD philosophy.

[Lee ponzu]

I can see the merit of all the objections to automating DD in this and the
other thread.  I am not trying to be stubborn here.

However, the objections have all been "expert power user" in nature, rather
than "Faster, Funner, Easier" or whatever mantra was.


   1. Certainly, adding a way to disable automatic anything is ideal.  Of
   course, there are already lots of automatic performance enhancers, are there
   not?  Can we disable all of them?
   2. It is also not a question of Auto vs Manual.  There could be a
   continuum between the two, and each factor---objects, textures, distance,
   shadows---could be separate.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing the FPS Management proposal fron Nexii and
others who actually know how the viewer works, as opposed to random ideas
from me 8-)




On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Nexii Malthus  wrote:

> Shouldn't 'network render' distance and graphics render distance be
> seperate kinda for this purpose?
>
> I could see graphics render distance auto-tune to FPS, but auto-tune should
> never touch the network distance controller, as that otherwise could cause
> havok. (As Marine explains)
>
> - Nexii
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Jonathan Welch  wrote:
>
>> At yesterday's meeting with Oz having a FPS auto-tune system was
>> discussed.  I am going to try to write up a description of how this
>> could be implemented and once it is fleshed out will post it here for
>> comments.
>>
>> -jonathan
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Re: [opensource-dev] Question about DD philosophy.

[Lee ponzu]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Marine Kelley 
 wrote:

>
> Besides I like to keep control over my draw distance. I vote for
> keeping it manual.
>


Note that my much over-simplified heuristic (from my much-oversimplified
mind 8-) still gives complete control over MAX DD.

As for re-requesting all the prims on DD change, I guess that would have to
change, and if that is difficult, then that is a problem.

ponzu
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[opensource-dev] Is it just me? Avatar textures downloading last.

[Lee ponzu]

Wow!! Shadows are nice!

However, and unrelated to shadows, I began to notice last night that while
my scenes had all downloaded, the avatars around me were still all gray.
 Their objects were OK, it was just their skin and cloth final bake that is
missing.  They do show up after several minutes, but long after everything
else.

I was using 2.7.4.  however, I think I noticed this starting about a week
ago, when I was using the Jun 10 latest development build.  I also see it on
my Macbook pro, which has a slightly better gpu (n9400).

I saw the discussion of retrying to upload one's own texture.  Could that
fix, if it is even in yet, have had this effect?  I don't think so, but
perhaps...

Anyway, if I see this again, should I start a Jira?  Or maybe there is one
there already.

ponzu

=

Second Life 2.7.4 (232938) Jun 15 2011 12:44:34 (Second Life Development)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7700  @ 2.40GHz (2400 MHz)
Memory: 3072 MB
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.7 Darwin 10.7.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.7.0: Sat
Jan 29 15:17:16 PST 2011; root:xnu-1504.9.37~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine

OpenGL Version: 2.1 ATI-1.6.26

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.75
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Built with GCC version 40001
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[opensource-dev] Restating the DD question (was Re: DD Philosophy

[Lee ponzu]

Is it cost effective to add *more automation* to the task of helping most
users achieve their *desired level of FPS* funner, faster, and easier
without ruining the ability users with special needs or knowledge to retain
manual control?



On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Hitomi Tiponi
wrote:

> Please no automatic DD - there are two many variables and differing
> circumstances for it ever to work.  Much better to work on other ways of
> improving fps e.g. selective updating of avatar movement.
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Is it just me? Avatar textures downloading last.

[Lee ponzu]

Extra symptom.  So, there I am, and the avatars are all rendered as
expected, when  --blink-- one of them turns gray, like the texture got lost.
 No, she didn't change to an all gray skin and outfit.  8-)

ponzu

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Lee ponzu  wrote:

> Wow!! Shadows are nice!
>
> However, and unrelated to shadows, I began to notice last night that while
> my scenes had all downloaded, the avatars around me were still all gray.
>  Their objects were OK, it was just their skin and cloth final bake that is
> missing.  They do show up after several minutes, but long after everything
> else.
>
> I was using 2.7.4.  however, I think I noticed this starting about a week
> ago, when I was using the Jun 10 latest development build.  I also see it on
> my Macbook pro, which has a slightly better gpu (n9400).
>
> I saw the discussion of retrying to upload one's own texture.  Could that
> fix, if it is even in yet, have had this effect?  I don't think so, but
> perhaps...
>
> Anyway, if I see this again, should I start a Jira?  Or maybe there is one
> there already.
>
> ponzu
>
> =
>
> Second Life 2.7.4 (232938) Jun 15 2011 12:44:34 (Second Life Development)
> Release Notes
>
> CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7700  @ 2.40GHz (2400 MHz)
> Memory: 3072 MB
> OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.7 Darwin 10.7.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.7.0: Sat
> Jan 29 15:17:16 PST 2011; root:xnu-1504.9.37~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
> Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
> Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine
>
> OpenGL Version: 2.1 ATI-1.6.26
>
> libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
> J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
> Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.75
> Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
> Voice Server Version: Not Connected
> Built with GCC version 40001
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Is it just me? Avatar textures downloading last.

[Lee ponzu]

If I can help gather any data let me know.


On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

> On 2011-06-18 16:43, Lee ponzu wrote:
> > Extra symptom.  So, there I am, and the avatars are all rendered as
> > expected, when  --blink-- one of them turns gray, like the texture got
> > lost.  No, she didn't change to an all gray skin and outfit.  8-)
>
> This is, unfortunately, not new behavior.  I've seen it on and off for
> at least a couple of months but have not been able to pin it down.
>
> If we could organize an effort to 1) improve the instrumentation around
> avatar bakes, and then 2) hunt down the problems and stomp them, it
> would be a major win.
>
> I'd really like it to be true that by the end of 2011 no one in SL needs
> to have the "what do I look like to you" conversation any more.
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Is it just me? Avatar textures downloading last.

[Lee ponzu]

   - 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR <https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR>
   - VWR-26093 <https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26093>

Mass avatar texture rebake and load failures resulting in blury and grey
textures which do not resolve on their
own<https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26093>

Already exists.  I added a comment and my logs to it.   Shoud this be a VWR
Jira?  Or could it be related to some other system.

ponzu

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Thickbrick Sleaford <
thickbrick.sleaf...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday 18 June 2011 20:00:04 Lee ponzu wrote:
> > However, and unrelated to shadows, I began to notice last night that
> while
> > my scenes had all downloaded, the avatars around me were still all gray.
> >  Their objects were OK, it was just their skin and cloth final bake that
> is
> > missing.  They do show up after several minutes, but long after
> everything
> > else.
> >
>
> I've noticed avatar bakes taking very long to un-gray too, when trying the
> SL
> v2 viewer recently after not using it for a long-ish while. This is
> especially
> noticeable in crowded areas.
>
> Looking at the texture console, it looks like any fetch that is using udp
> (i.e. bakes, since they can not be fetched via http) is always at the
> bottom
> of the list, and usually gets bumped out quickly. I haven't tested this,
> but I
> get the feeling that the udp fetches are starved out of processing by the
> regular http fetches. If I stay a while in a gray people gathering, and
> then
> relog, the once-gray people have at least one discard level of their bakes
> quickly decoded, probably from cache. This makes me think that this is a
> prioritization issue, possibly caused by the quick turn-around of http
> textures.
>
> --
> Thickbrick
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[opensource-dev] Stop Animating Me gone missing...

[Lee ponzu]

Using latest dev 2.7.5..  I needed to stop my animation but couldn't
find it in the menu.  Didn't it used to be there?  Should it be there?  Was
it removed on purpose?  Am I merely blind or drunk?

Someone had to remind me that we used to use a wearable object to do that,
and that worked fine.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Stop Animating Me gone missing...

[Lee ponzu]

Never mindfound it.  8-(


On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Lee ponzu  wrote:

> Using latest dev 2.7.5..  I needed to stop my animation but couldn't
> find it in the menu.  Didn't it used to be there?  Should it be there?  Was
> it removed on purpose?  Am I merely blind or drunk?
>
> Someone had to remind me that we used to use a wearable object to do that,
> and that worked fine.
>
>
>
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[opensource-dev] Great article on SCALE in SL.

[Lee ponzu]

There are a few things in here directly relevant to the viewer.  See for
example Camera Placement.

Can someone send a copy to Rodvik Linden 8-)

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Building-and-Texturing-Forum/A-Matter-of-Scale-How-scale-affects-content-creation-and-land/td-p/943101
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[opensource-dev] A question/comment about the behavior of auto-pilot camera.

[Lee ponzu]

  I use auto-pilot a lot, because for me arrow keys to move are problematic.
  I find it convenient to double-click on a spot, and then not have to worry
until I get there.

If the camera is in its default state, then the camera moves along following
my head.  This is fine.  However, if I alt-click on some point off to the
side, and then double click to auto-pilot, the camera focus moves along with
my avatar.  I think it would be better (for me) if the alt-click point was
more sticky, so the camera stayed focused on it while my avatar does it's
auto-pilot.

Does that make sense to people?  Maybe it would make auto-pilot more
popular.

Anyway, just babbling.  Thanks for listening.

Ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] Highlight Transparent Broken?

[Lee ponzu]

Will do.


On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Jonathan Welch  wrote:

> If no one files a jira on highlight transparent malfunctioning it
> won't be fixed.  Would someone take care of this?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Highlight Transparent Broken?

[Lee ponzu]

Or maybe not.  I just tested them so that I could write a good Jira, and
both worked )on my 3 year old iMac.

Second Life 2.7.4 (232938) Jun 15 2011 12:44:34 (Second Life Development)
Release Notes

You are at 306321.0, 233077.0, 44.0 in Hitaki located at
sim9595.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.44.52:12035)
Second Life Server 11.06.14.232746
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7700  @ 2.40GHz (2400 MHz)
Memory: 3072 MB
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.7 Darwin 10.7.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.7.0: Sat
Jan 29 15:17:16 PST 2011; root:xnu-1504.9.37~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine

OpenGL Version: 2.1 ATI-1.6.26

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.75
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 3.2.0002.9361

Built with GCC version 40001
Packets Lost: 12/15577 (0.1%)


On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Lee ponzu  wrote:

> Will do.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Jonathan Welch  wrote:
>
>> If no one files a jira on highlight transparent malfunctioning it
>> won't be fixed.  Would someone take care of this?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Highlight Transparent Broken?

[Lee ponzu]

OK.  I created a really unsatisfactory Jira...


   - Second Life Viewer - VWR 
   - VWR-26115 



On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Jonathan Welch  wrote:

> If no one files a jira on highlight transparent malfunctioning it
> won't be fixed.  Would someone take care of this?
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Re: [opensource-dev] A question/comment about the behavior of auto-pilot camera.

[Lee ponzu]

I looked through some JIRAs.  Apparently there are also interactions of
double-click with HUDs, and some other issues.

Just thinking out loud...

Maybe we need to think through a more general solution.  It occurs to me
that llRayCast() is going to make it easier to create scripted route/path
finders using simple AI.  Some possible useful behaviors...


   - Go here.
   - Go here and sit.
   - Go wherever this avatar goes.
   - Exactly trace the footsteps of this avatar.
   - Try to stay just to the left of this avatar.
   - Try to stay just to the right of this avatar.
   - Try to get in front of and face this avatar.


Five years ago, I expected a lot more of this type of puppeteering to be
added to SL, but it never happened.  Maybe the perfect chased away the good.
 It should be obvious and built-in to shake hands, hold hands, hug, slap,
pat-on-head, peck-on-cheek, put-arm-around, etc etc etc.

Of course, this is a massive project involving server and VWR and lots of
other invisible parts I don't even know about, and it cannot all be done at
once.  Like I said...just thinking out loud.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Adding Neck and Root Attachment Points

[Lee ponzu]

On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Adeon Writer  wrote:

>  \Name is an afterthought to function. :)
>
>
> Don't call it irving.
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[opensource-dev] Avatar Scale and Camera Placement

[Lee ponzu]

There is a thought provoking discussion of avatar scale here...
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/content-creation/61046-matter-scale-how-scale-affects.html
You've probably seen it, but if not, it is a worthwhile read.

One of the issues is default camera placement.  In brief, the default is too
far back and too high.  Of course, this is a matter of individual needs and
taste, but it suggested to me a useful "feature" for the viewer.

How about a few pre-packaged optional camera placement configurations in
preferences?  (Yes, experts can keep using the legacy sliders.)

Traditional:  Camera behavior as at present
Closer:  Camera is lower, closer, and more level, as suggested in the
thread.
Close:Maybe something half way between Traditional and Closest.
Crowd:   Farther than traditional

Then, make it easy to switch from one to another.  Funner/Faster/Easier!!!
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[opensource-dev] Basic Shaders and FPS

[Lee ponzu]

This is something I just discovered that I suppose most of you have always
known.

I was messing with my oldish iMac (ATI 2600 Pro) and I discovered that the
main thing that makes all the difference to FPS is the shaders.

Basic Shaders off:  FPS == 30 to 50.
Basic Shaders on:  FPS == 13 to 15

Similar effect for just Atmospheric or Shadows.

So, this made me crave a custom button for turning shaders on and off (yeah,
CMD-P/Graphics/Basic Shader is easy.  Just thinking of all the people who
don't even know that preferences exists  8-)  Need FPS?  <>.
 Want things to look better?  <>  Easy peasy.

BTW, I also briefly tested on my slightly newer Macbook Pro (nvidia 9400M).
Same ting, but the FPS difference is much less dramatic.

ponzu
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[opensource-dev] Shameless self-promotion...

[Lee ponzu]

I sent in an application for a couple of the positions open at Linden Lab.
 (My real name is Lee Sailer.)

If any of you feel inclined to put in a good word for me at HR, please feel
free  8-)  In fact, if LL has a finders fee for employees who recommend
someone, I'd be glad to ay you recommended me.

thanks mucho,

Lee Sailer Ponzu
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[opensource-dev] Autobuild errors

[Lee ponzu]

it has been a long time since I did a build.  I tried to follow the
instructions on the wiki, download autobuild, clone viewer-beta...

Here is the error.  Any advice welcome.  Insults also accepted, since I am
starved for human contact...

ponzu


mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c Release
executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
-DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
-DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=TRUE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
checking package fmod
installing fmod from archive
downloading fmod archive from
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
downloading
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2to
/var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
unable to download file: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py", line
253, in download_package
file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 124, in urlopen
return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 389, in open
response = meth(req, response)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 502, in http_response
'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 427, in error
return self._call_chain(*args)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 361, in _call_chain
result = func(*args)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 510, in http_error_default
raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
ERROR: failed to download
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
CMake Error at cmake/Prebuilt.cmake:48 (message):
  Failed to download or unpack prebuilt 'fmod'.  Process returned 1.
Call Stack (most recent call first):
  cmake/FMOD.cmake:27 (use_prebuilt_binary)
  llaudio/CMakeLists.txt:8 (include)


-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
ERROR: configuring default configuration returned 1
For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
mbpro:viewer-beta lee$
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[opensource-dev] RenderTextureMaximumMultiply == 0.5 is annoying...

[Lee ponzu]

My GPU only has 256 MB, so the default for texture mem is only 128MB.  I am
constantly adjusting it using Debug Settings...I am sick of it.

I don't so much mind that the default setting is .5 * GPU memory.  I just
think it shouldn't be so cumbersome to increase it.

ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors

[Lee ponzu]

Still getting an error...

mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c ReleaseOS
executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
-DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
-DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
checking package fmod
installing fmod from archive
downloading fmod archive from
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
downloading
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2to
/var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
unable to download file: 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py", line
253, in download_package
file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 124, in urlopen
return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 383, in open
response = self._open(req, data)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 401, in _open
'_open', req)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 361, in _call_chain
result = func(*args)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 1130, in http_open
return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
line 1105, in do_open
raise URLError(err)
URLError: 
ERROR: failed to download
http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
CMake Error at cmake/Prebuilt.cmake:48 (message):
  Failed to download or unpack prebuilt 'fmod'.  Process returned 1.
Call Stack (most recent call first):
  cmake/FMOD.cmake:27 (use_prebuilt_binary)
  llaudio/CMakeLists.txt:8 (include)


-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
ERROR: configuring default configuration returned 1
For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Nicky Perian  wrote:

> use ReleaseOS
>
> --
> *From:* Lee ponzu 
> *To:* Opensource_dev 
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:27 AM
> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] Autobuild errors
>
> it has been a long time since I did a build.  I tried to follow the
> instructions on the wiki, download autobuild, clone viewer-beta...
>
> Here is the error.  Any advice welcome.  Insults also accepted, since I am
> starved for human contact...
>
> ponzu
>
>
> mbpro:viewer-beta lee$ autobuild build --verbose -c Release
> executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=Release
> -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
> -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=TRUE -G 'Xcode' ../indra
> checking package fmod
> installing fmod from archive
> downloading fmod archive from
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> downloading
> http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/hg/repo/3p-fmod-private/rev/221852/arch/Darwin/installer/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2to
>  /var/tmp/lee/install.cache/fmod-3.75-darwin-20110222.tar.bz2
> unable to download file: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/lee/Documents/viewer/autobuild/autobuild/common.py", line
> 253, in download_package
> file(cachename, 'wb').write(urllib2.urlopen(package).read())
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 124, in urlopen
> return _opener.open(url, data, timeout)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 389, in open
> response = meth(req, response)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 502, in http_response
> 'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)
>   File
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py",
> line 427, in error
> return self._call_chain(*args)
>   File
> "/Syste

[opensource-dev] An SL appliance...

[Lee ponzu]

Does the Linux viewer use X?  If you DISPLAY SL on another computer running
an XServer, does it behave OK.

If so, could you assemble a small Linux host with a high end GPU and then
DISPLAY SL on a different computer on the same local network?

ponzu
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[opensource-dev] SOCKS viewer

[Lee ponzu]

I notice this work being done on a viewer that can use a SOCKS proxy.  In my
limited knowledge, SOCKS is usually used to get through a firewall, right?
 But there are also SOCKS proxies that cache requests.

So, suppose you had two or more clients using the same cacheing SOCKS proxy.
 If they needed the same data (say the two users were in the same classroom
or sex club), would they both get their data from the SOCKS cache?  For a
classroom with many users, this could be a huge bandwidth win.  Even for a
few people on the same side of a slow network connection, it could be a big
win.  Can we get Wild Blue to put a cacheing SOCKS proxy on the satellite
8-).  Save me 800ms for every request 8-)

Maybe this is the whole point of the effort, and I only just woke up...that
could be a huge win, for me at least 8-)

regards,
ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] Python broken on Lion - autobuild doesn't work

[Lee ponzu]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Stone Linden  wrote:

>
> We continue to use Xcode 3.2 at LL and haven't started testing under 4.1 or
> 4.2 yet. You're welcome to try, but you'll be on your own!
>
> Cheers,
> Stone
>
>
>
...and be careful when you do this...When you install Xcode 4, it wants to
put everything in /Developer where Xcode 3 and all the supporting stuff is
already.  Be sure to investigate how to keep both Xcode 3 and 4 co-existing
on the same machine, or keep them separate.

ponzu
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[opensource-dev] Concerned about frequent crashes

[Lee ponzu]

I am concerned that the latest viewers have been crashing a lot for the last
week or two.  I crash as often as 3 times per hour.  I attach one crash
report below.  Is this problem known and being worked on, or is it just me?
 I am sort of a canary in the coal mine because this is an older iMac and I
use Satellite internet, so maybe I expose problems that don't crash other
people.

Question:  When OS X pops up a Problem Report for a crashed app, and says
the report is being sent to Apple, do those actually go anywhere?  Is there
any maybe automated analysis and statistics done?  If not, would it be
useful?  Maybe I could help there.

ponzu

Process: Second Life [908]
Path:/Applications/Viewers/Project Viewer -
Mesh.app/Contents/MacOS/Second Life
Identifier:  com.secondlife.indra.viewer
Version: Second Life version 2.8.2.237321 (2.8.2.237321)
Code Type:   X86 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [631]

Date/Time:   2011-08-07 13:26:05.591 -0400
OS Version:  Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549)
Report Version:  6

Interval Since Last Report:  228428 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:   4
Per-App Interval Since Last Report:  29574 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   3
Anonymous UUID:  18404959-AFD8-476A-807F-8B2EE7A368F6

Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGQUIT)
Exception Codes: 0x, 0x
Crashed Thread:  1  Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager

Thread 0:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b75c5a __kill + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b75c4c kill$UNIX2003 + 32
2   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91c085a5 raise + 26
3   libllcommon.dylib 0x04965480
default_unix_signal_handler(int, __siginfo*, void*) + 432
4   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b7b05b _sigtramp + 43
5   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b40f56 wait4 + 10
6   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91ba25e5 pclose + 215
7   libllcommon.dylib 0x04a333de LLMemoryInfo::loadStatsMap() +
3598
8   libllcommon.dylib 0x04a34763 LLMemoryInfo::refresh() + 35
9   libllcommon.dylib 0x04a401ee FrameWatcher::tick(LLSD const&)
+ 606
10  libllcommon.dylib 0x04a356d2
boost::detail::function::function_obj_invoker1,
boost::_bi::list2, boost::arg<1> > >, bool,
LLSD const&>::invoke(boost::detail::function::function_buffer&, LLSD const&)
+ 82
11  com.secondlife.indra.viewer   0x0175e689
boost::signals2::detail::signal1_impl, boost::function,
boost::function,
boost::signals2::mutex>::slot_invoker::m_invoke(boost::shared_ptr >, boost::signals2::slot1 >, boost::signals2::mutex> > const&,
...) const + 57
12  com.secondlife.indra.viewer   0x0175e94d
boost::signals2::detail::signal1_impl, boost::function,
boost::function,
boost::signals2::mutex>::operator()(LLSD const&) + 525
13  libllcommon.dylib 0x049a71df LLEventStream::post(LLSD
const&) + 63
14  com.secondlife.indra.viewer   0x000de32d LLAppViewer::mainLoop() + 1453
15  com.secondlife.indra.viewer   0x01350918 main + 568
16  com.secondlife.indra.viewer   0x9ad6 start + 54

Thread 1 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3b382 kevent + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3ba9c _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 215
2   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3af59 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 163
3   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3acfe _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 240
4   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3a781 _pthread_wqthread + 390
5   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3a5c6 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 2:
0   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b14afa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b15267 mach_msg + 68
2   libexception_handler.dylib 0x04d27bcd
google_breakpad::ExceptionHandler::WaitForMessage(void*) + 125
3   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b42259 _pthread_start + 345
4   libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b420de thread_start + 34





Second Life 2.8.2 (237321) Jul 29 2011 17:51:01 (Project Viewer - Mesh)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7700  @ 2.40GHz (2400 MHz)
Memory: 3072 MB
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8 Darwin 10.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.8.0: Tue
Jun  7 16:33:36 PDT 2011; root:xnu-1504.15.3~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine

OpenGL Version: 2.1 ATI-1.6.36

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.75
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Built with GCC version 40001
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[opensource-dev] Collecting DIDN'T CRASH data

[Lee ponzu]

I just had a sort of strange idea, but maybe this is alrady common practice.
 Just thought I would ask.

Collect data about viewers that didn't crash.  After some time cutoff, send
the didn't crash data (with permission of the user, of course) to a
repository.

Then, when you have a bunch of Crash Reports, you could compare them to the
didn't crash reports from similar hardware/OS/Version, and maybe some
pattern would pop out.  Such as VBO *and* AA crashes, or whatever.

Just a thought.  Cannot stop my brain.  Best I can do is to not inflict it
on everyone else too often.  You all owe me more than you know.  8-)

ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] Collecting DIDN'T CRASH data

[Lee ponzu]

Good to hear.  But I was also thinking of the graphics settings.  There are
all those proven and unproven theories about VBO on, but not with AA, and
only on alternate TuesdaysI know I have some of them myself.  I have
convinced myself that VBO is bad on my ATI 2600Pro iMac.



On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Brian McGroarty  wrote:

>
> Data is collected about viewer sessions that end in a successful logout,
> and it's examined in much the manner you propose. I believe the aggregate
> data is shared with Third Party Viewer teams and/or at the Open Source
> office hours. I'm not sure if the lab has shared a recent breakdown against
> different OSes and graphic chipsets, but that could be a good thing to ask
> for if anyone's focussing on graphics or stability.
>
> --
> Brian McGroarty | Linden Lab
> Sent from my Newton MP2100 via acoustic coupler
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available

[Lee ponzu]

The funny thing is that over in some forums there is the usual thread about
what comes after 2.9.x, which the knowing have explained *can* be 2.10,
2.11, and so on because the version does not comprise the parts of a single
decimal number.

Then you guys screw us up by going to 3.x  sheesh.

ponzu

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>
> We have completed our latest build for 3.0.0 (238157) and it's available
> for download here:
>
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Downloading_test_builds#Beta_Candidates
>
> We'd love to have you try it out - doing the things you normally do in
> Second Life and provide us with feedback.  Once you've had a chance to try
> this out, this build will become the next release into our beta channel.  We
> have created a meta issue in jira for you to attach any bug you find
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26648.  In addition, if you should
> discover a mesh issue, VWR bug creation now has a Mesh component available.
>   Some important facts about this viewer:
>
>
>- Mesh support. This build will allow you to upload and see meshes on
>supported regions of aditi and agni (previous viewers will show meshes as
>prims).
>- Currently regions in the magnum and "Secondlife RC Mesh" channels
>have mesh support.
>- On supported regions where you have build permissions, mesh upload
>can be accessed via the Build->Upload->Model... option. A L$ fee will be
>charged for uploads, with the size of the fee determined by the complexity
>of the model.
>- Your account must be mesh enabled before uploading; the requirements
>for this are that your account has payment info on file, and that you have
>completed a questionnaire related to intellectual property issues as they
>apply to mesh. If you are not yet mesh enabled, the model upload dialog 
> will
>provide a link to the questionnaire.
>- See http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh for more information about
>mesh.
>
>
> Thank you for your interest in making our viewer experience better.  If you
> have any questions, please feel free to either post them in our Mesh Forums
> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/bd-p/Mesh  or join us at our
> office hours
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation,_Mesh_Import,_Scripting_User_Group.
>
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Version Numbering

[Lee ponzu]

I think calling it Version 3 with simplify the marketing...if you want mesh,
you need a version 3 viewer...

ponzu

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Daniel  wrote:

>
> > From: Brandon Husbands 
> >  I how does this constitute a major revision number?
>
> (1) Addition of a whole new asset class (mesh) with custom UV mapping,
> LOD's, and physics shapes
> (2) New physics engine & physics type
> (3) Change of the prim accounting system from fixed to variable for mesh
> and items using new physics type
> (4) Deferred render pipeline with projected lighting
> (5) Change of maximum object size from 10 to 64m
>
> Some of these items have been added in recent development builds, but
> this release will make them part of the official download.  I think
> that's enough changes to warrant a major version number.  Unlike the 1.x
> to 2.0 change, this update does not involve major changes to the user UI.
>
> Some other changes that are not part of the Viewer code specifically,
> but are contemporaneous are:
>
> (6) New login page
> (7) Social profiles on the website
> (8) Search that actually works
>
> So that just adds to the "a lot of stuff has changed" list.
>
> Daniel
>
> (who has been testing a 3.0 build for 2 days already.  One crash on
> startup, and a nagging texture swap issue which I need to see if I can
> reproduce.  I survived my version of a stress test: Visiting a region
> with 40 avatars while wearing 100k triangles of mesh objects)
>
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[opensource-dev] Viewer 3.0 beta VM usage

[Lee ponzu]

Has been working very well for me.  I do have one strange issue I thought
might be interesting to the right people.

I watch the OS X Activity Monitor while I am using SL.  The Virtual Memory
(actually, I believe it is the private VM, not the total VM, behaves a
little oddly.  It changes every few seconds.  It normally changes to a value
between about 200MB and 500MB, but it sometimes jumps to 1.2GB and even to
16EB.  This last one is the most surprising.  I am not sure what causes it,
but it seems rather un Apple-like.  Maybe OSX kernel wonks know exactly what
causes this, I sure don't have a clue.  Which, of course, really pisses me
off.

ponzu

By the Way, I am moving to Seattle to take a job at Amazon Web Services.
 Lucky me 8-)  Feel free to drop by and say hello when you are in the
area
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[opensource-dev] OS X Lion

[Lee ponzu]

How much attention is being paid to Lion?   I think the natives are starting
to get restless.

ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] OS X Lion

[Lee ponzu]

i have heard two people report that they cannot *initiate* an IM.  They can
receive them, but not *start* a session.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

>  Not speaking for the team here (especially because I'm not in viewer
> development), just myself as a Lion user (Mid-2009 MBP, NVidia):
>
> There are only two major Lion-specific bugs that have bitten my own use so
> far.
>
> One is Freaky Polygons, which was quickly eased by turning off OpenGL
> vertex buffer objects (VBOs) in the Graphics->Hardware settings. There's a
> fix of some kind in the pipeline.
> The other is a weird problem with certain web views (such as Profiles)
> showing up with no CSS or JS; this turned out to be SSL cert related, and
> there's a fix for this one in the pipeline too.
>
> Apart from those two bugs, the viewer Works On My Machine™. I hope it also
> answers the overall question: yes, attention is being paid.
>
> -- Yoz
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
>
> How much attention is being paid to Lion?   I think the natives are
> starting to get restless.
>
> ponzu
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Re: [opensource-dev] [JIRA] Commented: (STORM-1559) Preferences window is transparent, and hard to read.

[Lee ponzu]

yeah, that was it.  I don't remember ever seeing that before...

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Opensource Obscure (JIRA) <
no-re...@secondlife.com> wrote:

>
>[
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1559?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=278558#comment-278558]
>
> Opensource Obscure commented on STORM-1559:
> ---
>
> Preferences > Colors > Floater Opacity ?
>
> > Preferences window is transparent, and hard to read.
> > 
> >
> > Key: STORM-1559
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Feedback wanted for VWR-26858 (User-defined build icons)

[Lee ponzu]

Over the past couple of years, AL builders have posted many long (winded)
blog and forum posts comparing about the building tools, some containing
various good ideas.  I suggest Googling for them.
On Sep 5, 2011 12:07 PM, "Boroondas Gupte" 
wrote:
> On 09/05/2011 08:20 PM, Jonathan Welch wrote:
>> Partly to solve a lack of new icon space needed by Storm-49 and partly
>> to improve in-world building I have created VWR-26858
>> (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26858) and would appreciate
>> your comments on this proposed new feature I would like to work on.
>>
>> Oz and Esbee might appreciate a few "this is a good idea" comments to
>> convince them that yes, it is a good idea, and I would appreciate any
>> comments of technical changes you can think of.
> It would probably be good to ask the target audience (i.e. SL builders)
> about this feature request. I don know where to best reach them, but I
> think there's one or several forums on the SL community platform
> dedicated to inworld content creation.
>
> Cheers,
> Boroondas
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[opensource-dev] Attached Objects not appearing to be attached.

[Lee ponzu]

With the latest dev viewer, I am getting this glitch where a shoe or my hair
does not move when I move.  I TP into a location, walk away, and a shoe
(left?) or my hair stays where I started.  It looks attached in Inventory.
A detach/attach fixes it.  A TP might fix it, or not, not sure.  By the way,
this is not on my usual satellite internet.  This is on actual high
speed

ponzu

Second Life 3.1.1 (242386) Oct  5 2011 08:52:29 (Second Life Development)
[ReleaseNotes]

You are at 262117.0, 262145.0, 24.4 in Burning Man- Black Rock located at
sim7425.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.34.172:12035)
Second Life RC Magnum 11.09.23.241511
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2415M CPU @ 2.30GHz (2300 MHz)
Memory: 4096 MB
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8 Darwin 10.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.8.0: Tue
Jun  7 16:32:41 PDT 2011; root:xnu-1504.15.3~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel Inc.
Graphics Card: Intel HD Graphics 3000 OpenGL Engine

OpenGL Version: 2.1 APPLE-1.6.38

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.75
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 3.2.0002.10426

Built with GCC version 40001
Packets Lost: 0/41153 (0.0%)
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[opensource-dev] Should these be Jira'd?

[Lee ponzu]

Viewer startup blindness

What happens:  Worst in a dark room.  Start the viewer.  White screen, ouch
it hurts my eyes, but then it goes black.  Then it is WHITE again.  Damn.
 Finally, stuff starts to appear, but there is still a lot of WHITE.

What should happen:  Not sure.  UX experts must know.  But maybe start
black and stay black where possible, or at least some subdued shade. Dark
in a bright room is not so bad.  Bright in a dark room is a killer.


Hiding  controls

On my Mac, command-shift-U hides the user interface controls.  It also
zoomz in, which is distracting and also defeats the purpose of making more
screen visible.

What I expect.  Controls disappear, nothing else changes.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: As a music fan, I want audio to fade in gently so my immersion is increased

[Lee ponzu]

An audio glitch I hate...

Listening music in SL, I often turn the SL volume down quite a bit.  When I
exit SL, the music stream continues for a few seconds as SL closes, but AT
FULL VOLUME.

it wakes up the dog.

Ponzu

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jonathan Yap  wrote:

>This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/520/
>   Review request for Viewer.
> By Jonathan Yap.
> Description
>
> Audio fading in has been added for when a music stream starts.  Audio fading 
> out has been added for when there is a change in the music stream that is 
> playing.
>
> Two dead files have been eliminated.
>
> An existing bug in how music was not being paused correctly has been fixed.
>
> When you are teleporting you will hear the music stream from the place you 
> are leaving.  This is a change in behavior; previously the music stream was 
> stopped when the teleport progress bar was being displayed.
>
> This code change affects several areas where music is started or stopped.  
> The new code has evolved significantly, so please look for things that might 
> not "make sense."
>
>   Testing
>
> See the massive test plan in the jira.
>
>   *Bugs: * STORM-591 
> Diffs
>
>- doc/contributions.txt (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/lloverlaybar.h (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/lloverlaybar.cpp (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llpanelnearbymedia.h (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llpanelnearbymedia.cpp (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llvieweraudio.h (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llvieweraudio.cpp (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llviewermedia.cpp (8b455c1b7a5e)
>- indra/newview/llviewerparcelmgr.cpp (8b455c1b7a5e)
>
> View Diff 
>
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[opensource-dev] Chat in bubbles....

[Lee ponzu]

Maybe I am the only person in the universe who uses bubble chat, but I have
always preferred it.

Back in olden times, the bubbles were quite a bit too agressive.  That is,
a bubble from somebody 20 meters behind you would pop up in front of you so
you could read it.  However, at some point, somebody must have changed some
parameters so that the bubbles don't try quite so hard to appear on your
screen.

So far so good, but for me 1)  the bubbles are not quite aggressive enough,
and 2) Maybe there should be a bubble chat aggression parameter that the
user can set.  3) Maybe there already is?

Anyway, before I start wandering aimlessly through the code, can someone
for whom it might only take five seconds poibt me in the right direction
(which does not include advice to not use bubble chat 8-).

As usual, thanks, and keep up the good work.

ponzu
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[opensource-dev] View on Lion

[Lee ponzu]

Would someone be willing to give a short summary of the status of using the
viewer on Lion.

For that matter, what is the status of Lion, period.  OS Xista? Or is it ok?

lee
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