[Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[William J. Kammerer]

Some Messages are not being archived to wedi-transactions at
http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/.  For
example, I have received messages from the listserve which do not appear
in the Mail-archive list:

Subject: Re: Use of Direct Data Entry
Sent: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:37:06 -0500
Recd: 4 Jan 2003 03:04:25 -
From: William J. Kammerer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: Separators
Sent: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:00:56 -0500
Recd: 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 -
From: William J. Kammerer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Separators
Sent: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:37:46 -0600
Recd: 2 Jan 2003 17:44:27 -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: Separators
Sent: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:20:30 -0500
Recd: 3 Jan 2003 12:01:03 -
From: Laurance Stuntz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: Blocking of the 837
Sent:  Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:52:30 + (GMT)
Recd: 3 Jan 2003 12:53:22 -
From: Jonathan Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


You can see for yourself the problems this causes - even though the last
message I listed does not appear in the archives, an answer to it
appears in msg00804.html within the same directory!

Please also note that the Recd timestamp I list is when I received my
copy of a posting.  For this mailing list, most messages arrive shortly
after they've been posted.  But there are frequent exceptions -  note
that one I listed above took two days to arrive (to me) after it had
originally been posted!

If Mail-archive receives messages long after their posted timestamp,
does that affect the likelihood of problems arising in getting them
archived?  Did Mail-Archive even receive the five messages I listed?

William J. Kammerer
Novannet, LLC.
Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859
+1 (614) 487-0320


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Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[Earl Hood]

On January 5, 2003 at 11:55, "William J. Kammerer" wrote:

> Some Messages are not being archived to wedi-transactions at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/.  For
> example, I have received messages from the listserve which do not appear
> in the Mail-archive list:

See  since it
may be the answer to your question.

--ewh

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Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[William J. Kammerer]

Earl: Thanks for the suggestion.  But as I wrote, most - but not all -
messages do get posted to the archive.  Since X-No-Archive: yes would
most likely be something provided by the Listserve administrator for
every message, we should assume that this MIME header is not used at
all, and is not the cause of the messages not being archived.

In order to further illuminate the problem, I have included one of the
message's headers below.  The message was posted my me on Thu, 2 Jan
2003 15:00:56 -0500.  I have every reason to believe it was received by
the listserver immediately, and successfully distributed to many
subscribers within a short period of time - I know this because I often
get responses from correspondents which include the text of my message.
But in this case, you can see that I did not receive my copy of the
message from the listserver till 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 - - i.e., 01-03
at 10:16 PM ET, nearly 32 hours later!!  And yes, the clock is correct
in the Date: message; as you can see, it's a message sent by me!

Since the message has not appeared in the Mail Archives at
http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/, I would
assume either 1) Mail Archive never received a copy itself (not
implausible considering it took 32 hours to get to me!), or 2) Mail
Archive did not archive such a late-arriving message because it was
confused.

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: (qmail 2070 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 -
Received: from unknown (HELO 63.251.80.233) ([63.251.80.233])
  (envelope-sender
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
  by smtp-1-1d.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
  for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 -
Message-ID:

From: "William J. Kammerer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WEDI SNIP Transactions Workgroup List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Separators
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:00:56 -0500
Organization: Novannet, LLC.  Columbus, US-OH
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
List-Unsubscribe:

Reply-To: "WEDI SNIP Transactions Workgroup List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

William J. Kammerer
Novannet, LLC.
Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859
+1 (614) 487-0320

- Original Message -
From: "Earl Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "William J. Kammerer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, 05 January, 2003 01:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions


On January 5, 2003 at 11:55, "William J. Kammerer" wrote:

> Some Messages are not being archived to wedi-transactions at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/.  For
> example, I have received messages from the listserve which do not
appear
> in the Mail-archive list:

See  since it
may be the answer to your question.

--ewh


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Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[Earl Hood]

On January 5, 2003 at 14:50, "William J. Kammerer" wrote:

> Earl: Thanks for the suggestion.  But as I wrote, most - but not all -
> messages do get posted to the archive.  Since X-No-Archive: yes would
> most likely be something provided by the Listserve administrator for
> every message, we should assume that this MIME header is not used at
> all, and is not the cause of the messages not being archived.

The X-No-Archive: can be added by the Sender directly.

Side Note: I think if Listserv is removing such headers before
resending to the list, this is a serious bug with Listserv.

> In order to further illuminate the problem, I have included one of the
> message's headers below.  The message was posted my me on Thu, 2 Jan
> 2003 15:00:56 -0500.  I have every reason to believe it was received by
> the listserver immediately, and successfully distributed to many
> subscribers within a short period of time - I know this because I often
> get responses from correspondents which include the text of my message.
> But in this case, you can see that I did not receive my copy of the
> message from the listserver till 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 - - i.e., 01-03
> at 10:16 PM ET, nearly 32 hours later!!  And yes, the clock is correct
> in the Date: message; as you can see, it's a message sent by me!

I believe the date of the messages themselves do not matter.

It may be due to delivery queuing by MTAs, either on your end or
mail-archive.com end.  Since some MTAs may be configured to queue for
a few days, it may be possible the messages will show up in the next
day or two.

How does Listserv deal with failed deliveries?

> Since the message has not appeared in the Mail Archives at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/, I would
> assume either 1) Mail Archive never received a copy itself (not
> implausible considering it took 32 hours to get to me!), or 2) Mail
> Archive did not archive such a late-arriving message because it was
> confused.

1) is possible and 2) is highly improbable.  I'm not aware of any
date ordering limitations in the mail-archive service.

--ewh

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[Gossip] can't seem to get archive going - help?

[Paul Tiger]

Greetings,

I have been trying to get an archive started for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] by subscribing archive@mail-archive.com to my
list (I am the owner).
No worky.

I tried this first as a QUIET ADD to eliminate the out-bound response
messages from the list-serve. After a few hours of waiting and several test
messages, I did a QUIET DELETE and then re-added in noisy mode.
Now at least 8 hours later and still no archive has been added to
http://www.mail-archive.com

I have two other lists that are being archived on the Mail Archives and they
both work, and I had no problem getting them going using a QUIET ADD.

Am I doing something wrong now, or is something broken at the Mail Archive
end?

Paul Tiger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
303-774-6383 voice and messages
720-323-0570 cell
http://www.indra.net/~ptiger

When you earnestly believe that you can compensate for a lack of skill,
there is no end to what you can't do.



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Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[William J. Kammerer]

I am not familiar with the Lyris Listserve Manager, but I assume it has
some sort of capability to enqueue messages which have either bounced or
for which the destination mail server rejected a connection.  I think
Lyris retries sending (bounced or rejected) messages on a periodic basis
on the assumption that the situation is temporary - at least until some
threshold has been reached, whereupon figuring the situation is hopeless
unsubscribes or suspends the e-mail ID of the subscriber.

In the meantime, I am anxiously awaiting word from Jeff Breidenbach
whether he has some means of checking to see if the messages in question
were actually received by Mail Archive, and if so, why they were not
archived.

William J. Kammerer
Novannet, LLC.
Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859
+1 (614) 487-0320

- Original Message -
From: "Earl Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, 05 January, 2003 03:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions


On January 5, 2003 at 14:50, "William J. Kammerer" wrote:

> Earl: Thanks for the suggestion.  But as I wrote, most - but not all -
> messages do get posted to the archive.  Since X-No-Archive: yes would
> most likely be something provided by the Listserve administrator for
> every message, we should assume that this MIME header is not used at
> all, and is not the cause of the messages not being archived.

The X-No-Archive: can be added by the Sender directly.

Side Note: I think if Listserv is removing such headers before
resending to the list, this is a serious bug with Listserv.

> In order to further illuminate the problem, I have included one of the
> message's headers below.  The message was posted my me on Thu, 2 Jan
> 2003 15:00:56 -0500.  I have every reason to believe it was received
by
> the listserver immediately, and successfully distributed to many
> subscribers within a short period of time - I know this because I
often
> get responses from correspondents which include the text of my
message.
> But in this case, you can see that I did not receive my copy of the
> message from the listserver till 4 Jan 2003 03:16:24 - - i.e.,
01-03
> at 10:16 PM ET, nearly 32 hours later!!  And yes, the clock is correct
> in the Date: message; as you can see, it's a message sent by me!

I believe the date of the messages themselves do not matter.

It may be due to delivery queuing by MTAs, either on your end or
mail-archive.com end.  Since some MTAs may be configured to queue for
a few days, it may be possible the messages will show up in the next
day or two.

How does Listserv deal with failed deliveries?

> Since the message has not appeared in the Mail Archives at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wedi-transactions@lists.wedi.org/, I would
> assume either 1) Mail Archive never received a copy itself (not
> implausible considering it took 32 hours to get to me!), or 2) Mail
> Archive did not archive such a late-arriving message because it was
> confused.

1) is possible and 2) is highly improbable.  I'm not aware of any
date ordering limitations in the mail-archive service.

--ewh



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Re: [Gossip] Some Messages not archived to wedi-transactions

[Jeff Breidenbach]

> In the meantime, I am anxiously awaiting word from Jeff Breidenbach
> whether he has some means of checking to see if the messages in question
> were actually received by Mail Archive, and if so, why they were not
> archived.

I just got back from cross country skiing through Yosemite, and am
really tired. Could be any number of things, I'll take a closer look
when I have a chance, which should be some time this week. Maybe
mail-archive's secondary MX queue needs flushing or something.

Thanks,
Jeff





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