Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Sonntag 07 Februar 2010, Alexander wrote: > On Sunday 07 February 2010 19:27:46 Mark Knecht wrote: > >Every time there is an apparent delay I just see the hard drive > > > > light turned on solid. That said as far as I know if I wait for things > > to complete the data is there but I haven't tested it extensively. > > > >Is this a bad drive or am I somehow using it incorrectly? > > Is there any related info in dmesg? or maybe there is too much cached and seeking is not the drives strong point ...
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Sonntag 07 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Alexander wrote: > > On Sunday 07 February 2010 19:27:46 Mark Knecht wrote: > >>Every time there is an apparent delay I just see the hard drive > >> light turned on solid. That said as far as I know if I wait for things > >> to complete the data is there but I haven't tested it extensively. > >> > >>Is this a bad drive or am I somehow using it incorrectly? > > > > Is there any related info in dmesg? > > No, nothing in dmesg at all. > > Here are two tests this morning. The first is to the 1T drive, the > second is to a 120GB drive I'm currently using as a system drive until > I work this out: > > gandalf TestMount # time tar xjf /mnt/TestMount/portage-latest.tar.bz2 > -C /mnt/TestMount/usr > > real 8m13.077s > user 0m8.184s > sys 0m2.561s > gandalf TestMount # > > > m...@gandalf ~ $ time tar xjf /mnt/TestMount/portage-latest.tar.bz2 -C > /home/mark/Test_usr/ > > real 0m39.213s > user 0m8.243s > sys 0m2.135s > m...@gandalf ~ $ > > 8 minutes vs 39 seconds! > > The amount of data written appears to be the same: > > gandalf ~ # du -shc /mnt/TestMount/usr/ > 583M /mnt/TestMount/usr/ > 583M total > gandalf ~ # > > > m...@gandalf ~ $ du -shc /home/mark/Test_usr/ > 583M /home/mark/Test_usr/ > 583M total > m...@gandalf ~ $ > > > I did some reading at the WD site and it seems this drive does use the > 4K sector size. The way it's done is the addressing on cable is still > 512 byte 'user sectors', but they are packed into 4K physical sectors > and internal hardware does the mapping. > > I suspect the performance issue is figuring out how to get the file > system to keep things on 4K boundaries. I assume that's what the 4K > block size is for when building the file system but I need to go find > out more about that. I did not select it specifically. Maybe I need > to. > > Thanks, > Mark no. 4k block size is the default for linux filesystems. But you might have 'misaligned' the partitions. There is a lot of text to read about 'eraseblocks' on ssds and how important it is to align the partitions. You might want to read up on that to learn how to align partitions.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: When is a disk not a disk?
and what happens if you don't use crap - aka sudo but do it the right way - aka su to root?
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Dienstag 09 Februar 2010, Stroller wrote: > On 9 Feb 2010, at 00:27, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: > >> Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am > >> now > >> suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts > >> of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient > >> free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) > > > > With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, > > rinse and > > repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. > > Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? > > Stroller. no
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I an Erasee ?
On Dienstag 09 Februar 2010, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: > Hi, > > I wanted to unsubscribe from this list, but the > mlmmj said, that I cannot unsubscribe since I am > not subscribed. Which isn't quite right as you > can see here. > I fear if I would subscribe now a second time and > unsubscribe than, I will become two erasees... > What can I do to become real again ... ;) > > Best regards, > mcc contact list admin?
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 13:34 +, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:46:40 +, Stroller wrote: > > > > With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, > > > > rinse and > > > > repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. > > > > > > Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? > > > > No. The very nature of RAID is redundancy, so you could remove one disk > > from the array to modify its setup then replace it. > > so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before > removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were > removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was > removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 > wouldn't suffer from this (with >2 disks)... Raid 6. Two disks can go down.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 07:31 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > > > so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before > > > removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were > > > removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was > > > removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 > > > wouldn't suffer from this (with >2 disks)... > > > > Raid 6. Two disks can go down. > > not that I know enough about RAID to comment on this page, but you might > find it interesting: > http://www.baarf.com/ > specifically: > http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt and that is very wrong: but if the drive is going these will not last very long and will run out and SCSI does NOT report correctable errors back to the OS! Therefore you will not know the drive is becoming unstable until it is too late and there are no more replacement sectors and the drive begins to return garbage. [Note that the recently popular IDE/ATA drives do not (TMK) include bad sector remapping in their hardware so garbage is returned that much sooner.] so if the author is wrong on that, what is with the rest of his text? And why do you think Raid6 was created? With Raid6 one disk can fail and another return garbage and it is still able to recover. Another reason to use raid6 is the error rate. One bit per 10^16 sounds good - until you are fiddling with terabyte disks. >Conclusion? For safety and performance favor RAID10 first, RAID3 second, RAID4 third, and RAID5 last! and that is just mega stupid. You can google. Or just go straight to wikipedia, if you don't know why.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 07:31 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > > > so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before > > > removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were > > > removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was > > > removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 > > > wouldn't suffer from this (with >2 disks)... > > > > Raid 6. Two disks can go down. > > not that I know enough about RAID to comment on this page, but you might > find it interesting: > http://www.baarf.com/ > specifically: > http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt to give you an example, why raid 1 is not a good choice (and raid 10 too). You have two disks configured as mirror. They report different blocks. Which one is the correct one? And suddenly your system has to guess and you are very out of luck. Another reason, the author of that text stresses that you have to do more writes. Newsflash: with Raid1 every single block has to be written twice. So if you use additional writes against Raid5, Raid1 is instantly disqualified. You shouldn't listen to people with an agenda. This is almost as bad as the site that claimed that SATA is much worse than PATA in every single aspect ...
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE-4.4 strikes again
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > has anybody a recipe on this upgrade hell each time KDE release a new > version? > This time existing KDE-4.3.5 packages block KDE-4.4 packages though they > go to different slots. > Even portage-2.2_rc62 is unable to cope with that. > > Thanks for a hint, > Helmut. I had no problems going form 4.4rc2 to 4.4. Besides removing soprano. And slots don't mean anything since everything ends straight in /usr. If there are blocks, unmerge them. emerge -C ... or even faster pmerge --unmerge ... pretty easy. You can even unmerge whole sets. Superfast.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE-4.4 strikes again
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 10 Feb, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> has anybody a recipe on this upgrade hell each time KDE release a new > >> version? > >> This time existing KDE-4.3.5 packages block KDE-4.4 packages though they > >> go to different slots. > >> Even portage-2.2_rc62 is unable to cope with that. > >> > >> Thanks for a hint, > >> Helmut. > > > > I had no problems going form 4.4rc2 to 4.4. Besides removing soprano. > > > > And slots don't mean anything since everything ends straight in /usr. If > > there are blocks, unmerge them. > > > > emerge -C ... > > > > or even faster > > > > pmerge --unmerge ... > > > > pretty easy. You can even unmerge whole sets. Superfast. > > Thanks, but what's 'pmerge' ? > Is it in any overlay? > > Helmut. pkgcore - in a lot of cases a lot faster than portage. Especially unmerging stuff.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, J. Roeleveld wrote: > As for recovery, I always use "sysrescuecd" (http://www.sysresccd.org) and > this has Raid and LVM support in it. (Same with the Gentoo-livecds) sysrescuecd failed me hard two nights ago. 64bit kernel paniced with stack corruptions, 32bit kernel took an hour to unpack 300kb from a 20gb tar... it was pathetic...
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? -> bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Wednesday 10 February 2010 12:03:51 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > As for recovery, I always use "sysrescuecd" (http://www.sysresccd.org) > > > and this has Raid and LVM support in it. (Same with the Gentoo-livecds) > > > > sysrescuecd failed me hard two nights ago. 64bit kernel paniced with > > stack corruptions, 32bit kernel took an hour to unpack 300kb from a 20gb > > tar... > > > > it was pathetic... > > Never had a problem with it myself, but I always test rescuediscs semi- > regularly on all my machines, just to be sure. :) > > I'm also paranoid when it comes to backups of my private data. because of my backup harddisk (I first copy everything on a seperate disk, then later the important stuff onto tapes), I was able to boot into a pretty actual system and untar from their. And suddenly I was hitting 100mb/sec+ writing speed...
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: > Hello list, > when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs > kdelibs compiled with USE="semantic-desktop" and cannot be told to not > use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not > install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano.
Re: [gentoo-user] Qt3 deprecated, but Qt4 still not x86 (only ~x86)???
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Stroller wrote: because qt-VERSION is being phased out. You are supposed to use the split qt ebuilds. qt-VERSION is just a meta package. And luckily, all qt-BLABLA-4.5.3 ebuilds are marked stable. ALSO: from the qt-4.5.3 ebuild: KEYWORDS="~alpha amd64 arm hppa ~ia64 ~mips ppc ppc64 -sparc x86" when was the last time you sync'ed?
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE-4.4 strikes again
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 10. Februar 2010 schrieb Helmut Jarausch: > > Hi, > > > > has anybody a recipe on this upgrade hell each time KDE release a new > > version? > > This time existing KDE-4.3.5 packages block KDE-4.4 packages though they > > go to different slots. > > Even portage-2.2_rc62 is unable to cope with that. > > > > Thanks for a hint, > > Helmut. > > Well I only had some issues with packages that didn't have a 4.4 version, > like soliduiserver. So I guessed they don't need that anymore and a > removed it. Turned out it was a hard block because I had it in world. so? set -virtuoso in make.conf. neither soprano nor kdelibs hard-depend on it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Qt3 deprecated, but Qt4 still not x86 (only ~x86)???
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:16 +, Stroller wrote: > >> The message posted to Gentoo-dev suggests that Qt3 is going away right > >> about NOW, but this doesn't seem to add up to what I'm seeing. > > > > The message says it will be masked on Feb 21st and removed on March 21st. > > So you have eleven days to add it to package.unmask and nearly six weeks > > before you need to add the kde-sunset overlay. That's assuming the > > ebuilds that depend on QT3 haven't been updated to wiork with QT4, which > > is highly likely as that would require upstream changes for most of them > > too. > > > > It's a minor inconvenience, but they are giving us a decent warning. > > > > > > -- > > Neil Bothwick > > So am I at any great risk doing an emerge -C qt-3.3 and then expecting > revdep-rebuild to fix up mythtv-0.21 with qt-4 using whatever it has > ffor qt3-support? > > I'm __really__ not ready to upgrade my whole MythTV setup 0.22 if 0.21 > requires qt-3 and the qt3 support stuff in qt4 doesn't work. That > would be very painful for me even given 6 weeks. > > - Mark quickpkg all your crap emerge -C qt-3 emerge -C your mythtv stuff emerge qt4 set emerge current mythtv stuff it works? congratulation! it doesn't? just unmerge the new stuff and then emerge the binpkgs quickpkg created. Which takes maybe 5 minutes.
Re: [gentoo-user] Qt3 deprecated, but Qt4 still not x86 (only ~x86)???
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:30:19 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > >> I seem to have them both installed with only my old version of MYthTV > >> requiring qt-3.3.8 > > > > That's easy then, switch to MythTV 0.22, it's much better :) > > > > > > -- > > Neil Bothwick > > I don't care at all that it's much better. I care that what I have > works and the family doesn't bother me. > > My Myth server is PowerPC based and so everytime I switch there's > always things to relearn in terms of updating kernel and risks that > others don't have. > > And I cannot update mythfrontend on my desktop machine without > updating EVERY machine on the network to 0.22, so that's 2 desktops, 2 > dedicated machines hooked to TVs and the server. That's a lot of work > just because someone decides they don't want to support it anymore. > > On the other hand, if the qt4 qt3-support works then I don't update > from 0.21 at all. > > Again, I cannot see the 0.22 gives me anything I care about but > there's no way to know until I commit to making the change. > > Cheers, > Mark if everything works, why are you even bothering with updates? Why do you care at all that qt3 is going away? but as I told you, the solution is quickpkg. And for quickly deploying packages: buidpkg BINHOST. have a look at man emerge, man make.conf
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: > >> Hello list, > >> when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs > >> kdelibs compiled with USE="semantic-desktop" and cannot be told to not > >> use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not > >> install it. > > > > you don't even now what that is. Right? > > > > You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have > > it installed with soprano. > > My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation of > kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, and > disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm > perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on "find" every few months. your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) and then proceed with the links. google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can be replaced with find, locate and grep).
Re: [gentoo-user] Qt3 deprecated, but Qt4 still not x86 (only ~x86)???
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann > wrote: > > > >> Again, I cannot see the 0.22 gives me anything I care about but > >> there's no way to know until I commit to making the change. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Mark > > > > if everything works, why are you even bothering with updates? Why do you > > care at all that qt3 is going away? > > > > but as I told you, the solution is quickpkg. > > > > And for quickly deploying packages: > > buidpkg > > BINHOST. > > > > have a look at man emerge, man make.conf > > Volker, >Thanks. I've not used quickpkg before but it seems like a very good > short term solution. > >If I understand correctly I'd do something more or less like this? > > 1) quickpkg =qt-3.3.8xxx This creates the binary package and > stores it in /usr/portage/package. I've done this step and the package > is there. > > 2) emerge -C =qt-3.3.8x to remove the original. Easy when I do it. > > 3) emerge -pvg =qt-3.3.8b-r2 to get it to use the quickpkg version no. you are using -k not -g. > > This all seems to work but it complains a bit about PORTAGE_BINHOST > not being set. As best I can tell that's only for using another > machine to get the binary? Is that true? Is seems from these commands > that it's finding the one I just made. Or is there a format for doing > this and pointing at a local directory? > > firefly ~ # emerge -pvg =x11-libs/qt-3.3.8b-r2 > > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies !!! PORTAGE_BINHOST unset, but use is requested. > ... done! > [binary R ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.8b-r2 USE="cups ipv6 mysql opengl > -debug -doc -examples (-firebird) -immqt -immqt-bc -nas -nis -odbc > -postgres -sqlite -xinerama" > > Total: 1 package (1 reinstall, 1 binary), Size of downloads: 0 kB > firefly ~ # emerge -pv =x11-libs/qt-3.3.8b-r2 > > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild R ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.8b-r2 USE="cups ipv6 mysql opengl > -debug -doc -examples (-firebird) -immqt -immqt-bc -nas -nis -odbc > -postgres -sqlite -xinerama" 0 kB > > Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB > firefly ~ # you get that message because you are telling portage to get that package from BINHOST. That is great if you have one machine building packages and the rest of your machines pulling them from the server and install them. What you want/should/must use is -k = usepkg or -K = usepkgonly Also, it is a wise decision to have the buildpkg option set in make.conf, if you have a couple of gb to spare. That helps a lot in cases of bad updates, filesystem damage, or the need to go back a version quickly for whatever reasons.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Jörg Schaible wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > >> On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >> > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: > >> >> Hello list, > >> >> when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs > >> >> kdelibs compiled with USE="semantic-desktop" and cannot be told to > >> >> not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I > >> >> will not install it. > >> > > >> > you don't even now what that is. Right? > >> > > >> > You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already > >> > have it installed with soprano. > >> > >> My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation > >> of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, > >> and > >> disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm > >> perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on "find" every few months. > > > > your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. > > > > start here: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) > > > > and then proceed with the links. > > > > google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can > > be replaced with find, locate and grep). > > Well, in 4.3.x I eliminated it after the first try, because it took so many > resources of my machine, that I could not use it for something else. So, > you mean, in 4.4.x it takes only a 10% of the resources it took with > 4.3.x? LOL, although I really like the idea of the semantic desktop, I > rather have a usable machine ... > > - Jörg I don't know what load it creates because I never even have any negative impact. Yes, there is some nepomuk stuff sleeping in the background and it has zero impact on my desktop behaviour.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:04 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > >> On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >>> On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: > >>>> Hello list, > >>>> when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs > >>>> kdelibs compiled with USE="semantic-desktop" and cannot be told to not > >>>> use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not > >>>> install it. > >>> > >>> you don't even now what that is. Right? > >>> > >>> You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already > >>> have it installed with soprano. > >> > >> My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation > >> of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, > >> and disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as > >> I'm perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on "find" every few months. > > > > your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. > > > > start here: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) > > > > and then proceed with the links. > > > > google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can > > be replaced with find, locate and grep). > > OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now > understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage > (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's > relationship to an email?). because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. > Also didn't read anything even hinting at > security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an > attack that get's access to the RDFs, those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you are screwed anyway. > it'd tell the attacker exactly which > additional files to target). oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is scary. > And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll > stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be totally > disabled/uninstalled. and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. > > IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another > desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Stroller wrote: > On 11 Feb 2010, at 00:01, Jörg Schaible wrote: > >> ... > >> your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. > >> > >> start here: > >> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) > >> > >> and then proceed with the links. > >> > >> google-desktop is something completley different (and something > >> that can > >> be replaced with find, locate and grep). > > > > Well, in 4.3.x I eliminated it after the first try, because it took > > so many > > resources of my machine, that I could not use it for something else. > > So, you > > mean, in 4.4.x it takes only a 10% of the resources it took with > > 4.3.x? LOL, > > although I really like the idea of the semantic desktop, I rather > > have a > > usable machine ... > > I don't use KDE, but when I freshly install Mac OS (or migrate to a > new hard-drive) the Spotlight indexing hammers the drive for several > hours. It is not reasonable to compare performance during this initial > indexing period. > > There is no way the likes of `find`, `grep` and `locate` - useful as > they are - can operate as efficiently as this kind of indexing (and > Spotlight is pretty damn poor - your KDE implementation is surely > loads better). I love `find`, `grep` and `locate` - they're fantastic, > but my typical usage of them is to perform strict batch operations. If > I just want to open a document then why would I wait for `find`, > `grep` - or go hunting around manually in sub-directories of sub- > directories - when I can just type a keyword into the search box and > find it immediately? > don't forget that updatedb is hammering your harddisk regularly too - and it doesn't just index new files. Nope, it goes over the whole disk.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > >> OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now > >> understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage > >> (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's > >> relationship to an email?). > > > > because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree > > plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of > > the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. > > Haven't had a problem organizing my data in 25 years and currently run a 3 > system cluster with ~8TB of data. The only "benefit" that the semantic > desktop seems to deliver is to waste resources. > > >> Also didn't read anything even hinting at > >> security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an > >> attack that get's access to the RDFs, > > > > those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you > > are screwed anyway. > > > >> it'd tell the attacker exactly which > >> additional files to target). > > > > oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is > > scary. > > But tagging files (say stock spreedsheets, bank records, financial > bookmarks, tax records) with tags (say 'bank, money, finance') all in one > place would simplify a targeted attack. and the filenames and the places where you keep them won't tell him the same? You just claimed you organize things just fine. When you organize things, it can be used against you. > > >> And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll > >> stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be > >> totally disabled/uninstalled. > > > > and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing > > else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. > > So just another database server wasting resources. if it is running. You are free to not start it at all. > Not too bad as long as > nepomuk and strigi are disabled. Now to find the network ports soprano > uses to make sure they are blocked from leaving the machine... Yes, I > know, one of the really scary goals of the semantic-desktop is to share > RDFs, definitely don't want that. good thing you have to enable that explicitly... > > >> IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another > >> desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). > > > > yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. > > > > Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. > > This technology does not have a good track record (invasive cpu, memory, > disk usage) for very dubious benefits. I have not found any cost vs. > benefits vs. risks articles. Just a bunch of "we think this will be great > if you just use it" type articles that can't even explain how it would be > great. zero cpu, almost zero memory and mayby 0.1% harddisk. Yeah, that is scary.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:17:07AM +, Stroller wrote > > > I cannot for a moment believe that you (Roy) can organise your files > > so that you can find them easier than typing a search term & clicking > > on the correct result. You just don't want to try it because your > > current methods are "good enough" for you, but this isn't good grounds > > on which to complain about KDE moving on with their development of a > > state-of-the-art desktop which will actually make life easier for > > millions of other people (people who aren't afraid to try it). > > Yes, I can organize my files to the point where I rarely ever use > find. Just because you can't, is not a reason to slow down everybody > else's desktop. And if I really wanted a glitzy, bloated, > slow-as-molasses, pointy-clicky-touchy-feely-oowee-GUI, I would've > stayed with Windows, thank you. I started with Blckbox and am now on > ICEWM. > > I have to put up with Windows at work and one of the first things I do > with a new machine is to turn off indexing. It noticeably, speeds up > the system. I'll take the rare occasional long search versus continuous > disk-thrashing, thank you. again. You are talking about stuff you do know nothing about. Semantic desktop is not a MUST. You can turn it off. Second, even if you use it the impact on performance is negligble. updatedb running over your harddisks does a lot more damage than nepomuk - with the additional bonus that nepomuk only indexes once. But again, you can turn it off with a single mouse click. So what again ist your problem? Besides that it is new?
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. > > Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if > Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the > linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. it is neither fat nor bloated nor slow. Have you really tried it? Waited until the first indexing run was complete? kppp needs more ram than nepomuk. ... and produces a higher load. 'Bloatware' is all you have to say. Yeah. It makes life of people easier and uses negligble ressources on hardware that was produced in the last 4 years. It really must be bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote > > > > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > > > > IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another > > > > desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). > > > > > > yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction > > > too. > > > > > There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the > > > > ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 > > megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that > > GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, > > ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not > > usable. > > > > > Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. > > > > > Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if > > > > Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the > > linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. > > You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are > just a stupid ass. > > It is not slow. > > You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is > not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >> On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: > >>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote > >>> > >>>> On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > >>>>> IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another > >>>>> desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). > >>>> > >>>> yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction > >>>> too. > >>>> > >>>There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer > >>>the > >>> > >>> ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 > >>> megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that > >>> GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, > >>> ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are > >>> not usable. > >>> > >>>> Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. > >>>> > >>>Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if > >>> > >>> Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the > >>> linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. > >> > >> You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are > >> just a stupid ass. > >> > >> It is not slow. > >> > >> You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it > >> is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). > > > > you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... > > Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I > can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be > times when I can but it is rare. > > I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice > updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of "data" and updatedb only > takes a few minutes. How is that a resource "hog"? My machine is not > as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out > now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines > as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. > when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load.
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Thursday 11 February 2010 22:37:00 Mark Knecht wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Alan McKinnon > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > On Thursday 11 February 2010 22:09:28 Mark Knecht wrote: > >> >> Can someone comment on why I do or do not want to include config > >> >> files when making quickpkg files? > >> >> > >> >> Seems like there is the issue of hand edits being saved which would > >> >> be a good reason to keep them. I'm not overly worried about someone > >> >> stealing them and getting access to settings, but I can see that > >> >> might be a good reason not to. > >> >> > >> >> If I don't save them and then after a crash want to use binary > >> >> packages to get a machine running quickly it seems like I'd want to > >> >> include everything I could. > >> >> > >> >> What would the more experienced user do for the single-user desktop > >> >> type user? > >> > > >> > The config of the package you quickpkg'ed likely works. > >> > emerge -k is most often used to revert your own mistakes, so you want > >> > the thing to work. Your latest configs are suspect, why insist they > >> > take priority? You can always rename them to .bak if you think > >> > they might get nuked. > >> > > >> > Why do you care if someone steals your quickpkgs? Put them in a > >> > directory owned by root, they are then as safe as your stuff in /etc. > >> > To get to the tarballs, they must get to a place where they can just > >> > read the originals > >> > >> Thanks Alan. That confirms what I was thinking. > >> > >> My comment about things getting stolen is that I might burn them to > >> DVD for safe keeping in which case anyone can walk off with the DVD. > >> I'm not overly worried about that and it's far and away less of an > >> issue than getting the machine back to a running state. > > > > OK, I see. > > > > As long as you know which configs have password in them and take > > precautions, you should be OK. > > > > For the truly paranoid (and there will be someone who is validly so) > > another option is to store /etc in a remote SVN instance that is > > secured, and not store configs with the quickpkgs > > Thanks. Like I said originally I'm not worried about it but at least > you understood why I asked. > > One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get > the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command > line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right > way automatically? > > - Mark when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by you.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app > communication that is necessary without dbus. the problem is the WM can NOT handle all the inter-app communication that is needed by a modern desktop environment. Especially, when you have apps that are just frames around building blocks that have to talk to each other (like for example konqueror, that is just a gui to the dolphin, khtml, konsole, gwenview kparts).
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 12 February 2010 00:13:23 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get > > > the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command > > > line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right > > > way automatically? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mark > > > > when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited > > configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by > > you. > > Just checking something: > > We are all aware of the difference between > > emerge --buildpkg > > and > > quickpkg > > right/ I am. Not sure Mark is ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:53:10 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app > >> communication that is necessary without dbus. > > > > the problem is the WM can NOT handle all the inter-app communication > > that is > > needed by a modern desktop environment. Especially, when you have apps > > that > > are just frames around building blocks that have to talk to each other > > (like > > for example konqueror, that is just a gui to the dolphin, khtml, konsole, > > gwenview kparts). > > But it seems to me, that the apps that need the communication are in DE's. > Which is fine, I just think that if you're choosing a smaller WM (Openbox, > awesome, JWM, etc.), where there isn't a need for an inter-app > communication that extensive, then it's a bit of an overkill really. so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser or mail app that they are offline? And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a clean solution to a huge problem. Apps have to talk to each other. The only way to keep it sane is a standardized IPC daemon like dbus.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:03:27 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:53:10 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann > >> > >> wrote: > >> > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> >> Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app > >> >> communication that is necessary without dbus. > >> > > >> > the problem is the WM can NOT handle all the inter-app communication > >> > that is > >> > needed by a modern desktop environment. Especially, when you have apps > >> > that > >> > are just frames around building blocks that have to talk to each other > >> > (like > >> > for example konqueror, that is just a gui to the dolphin, khtml, > >> > >> konsole, > >> > >> > gwenview kparts). > >> > >> But it seems to me, that the apps that need the communication are in > >> DE's. > >> Which is fine, I just think that if you're choosing a smaller WM > >> (Openbox, > >> awesome, JWM, etc.), where there isn't a need for an inter-app > >> communication that extensive, then it's a bit of an overkill really. > > > > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser > > or > > mail app that they are offline? > > > > And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a > > clean > > solution to a huge problem. Apps have to talk to each other. The only > > way to > > keep it sane is a standardized IPC daemon like dbus. > > Well how about something with sockets ;) because then you need all apps to talk the same 'language'. You also have to built in filters into every app to prevent 'malicious' or damaged messages from doing harmfull stuff. Every app. So from a workload, maintenance and security POV - a nightmare. Oh, and don't forget the wasted memory and CPU cycles because of all the duplicated code. dbus is a clean and simple solution that reduces workload for the devs AND resources needed by the system. A win-win scenario. > > Personally, I don't see a big problem in a network connection manager not > being able to tell various apps that they don't have a connection to the > internet. If you're offline often you will know it, and if not you have > something to look into. oh yeah, it is just a great thing that the mail app constantly tries to reach servers and then throws errors. Not like this needs zero cpu cycles and zero ram. It is so much worse that the mail app knows that there is nothing to do and that it can sleep on...
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 12 February 2010 00:13:23 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >> > One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get > >> > the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command > >> > line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right > >> > way automatically? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > - Mark > >> > >> when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited > >> configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by > >> you. > > > > Just checking something: > > > > We are all aware of the difference between > > > > emerge --buildpkg > > > > and > > > > quickpkg > > > > right/ > > > > -- > > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking > about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command > > quickpkg --include-configs > > says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I > Alan) were talking about. > > On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the > FEATURES="buildpkg" (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) > gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. > > If I need to use quickpkg to save the configs then I think I'll do > that being that as I simple-minded home user with no admin experience > I have no in-place rigorous methods for doing __any__ backups. I just > tar up directories once in awhile and deal with the problems that come > later. (If they come...when they come...they do come, don't they?) ;-) > > - Mark when you use quickpkg it package up all the files belonging to the package as they are installed in your system. If you edited the configs (or any other file) the edited version ends in the tarball. with buildpkg the package is created before the files are copied into the filesystem. Config files included in the tarball are 'virgin'. buildpkg is 'cleaner' because you get everything as it is installed. If you want to save your configs - well, regular backups of /etc is always a smart choice.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: > Am Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:18:42 + > > schrieb Neil Bothwick : > > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: > > > IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find > > > another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 > > > years). > > > > It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( > > If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? > Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the > wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. > Well, I have drawn the conclusions and got rid of kmail and am on the > verge of migrating the whole desktop. I loved kde-3.5, I seriously > tried kde-4.*, but I could never befriend with it. And one point I > detaste is that "Social Semantic Desktop" thing (as Nepomuk is > characterized on its afore mentioned wikipedia page). For me it is just > another instance of what Kant called "selbstverschuldete > Unmündigkeit" (self-incurred immaturity). sure. Be able to tag and quickly find information is immature. Question, when you have KDE installed and some app pulls in gconf or gvfs - do you throw the same temper tamtrum?
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: > On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 00:21 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > oh yeah, it is just a great thing that the mail app constantly tries to > > reach servers and then throws errors. Not like this needs zero cpu > > cycles and zero ram. It is so much worse that the mail app knows that > > there is nothing to do and that it can sleep on... > > > > > > worse than "constantly tries to reach servers and then throws errors", > evolution will stop you from closing it down or changing the online / > offline state, unless you send it a SIGKILL. Very annoying. That's why > I started using NetworkManager and the networkmanager USE flag for > evolution... well, evolution is broken beyond help anyway ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > >> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > >>> On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >>>> On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: > >>>>>>> IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find > >>>>>>> another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 > >>>>>>> years). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction > >>>>>> too. > >>>>>> > >>>>> There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I > >>>>> prefer the > >>>>> > >>>>> ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 > >>>>> megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that > >>>>> GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current > >>>>> desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME > >>>>> and KDE are not usable. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be > >>>>>> bad. > >>>>>> > >>>>> Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if > >>>>> > >>>>> Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the > >>>>> linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. > >>>> > >>>> You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you > >>>> are just a stupid ass. > >>>> > >>>> It is not slow. > >>>> > >>>> You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that > >>>> it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). > >>> > >>> you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... > >> > >> Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I > >> can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be > >> times when I can but it is rare. > >> > >> I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice > >> updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of "data" and updatedb only > >> takes a few minutes. How is that a resource "hog"? My machine is not > >> as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out > >> now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines > >> as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. > > > > when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known > > problems. > > > > Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it > > creates zero load. > > So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing > new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. no, cahce is great. That is the problem. Updatedb replaces the cached files with stuff you probably don't care about. Which is bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >> On Friday 12 February 2010 00:13:23 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >>>> One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get > >>>> the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command > >>>> line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right > >>>> way automatically? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> - Mark > >>> > >>> when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited > >>> configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by > >>> you. > >> > >> Just checking something: > >> > >> We are all aware of the difference between > >> > >> emerge --buildpkg > >> > >> and > >> > >> quickpkg > >> > >> right/ > >> > >> -- > >> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > > > Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking > > about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command > > > > quickpkg --include-configs > > > > says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I > > Alan) were talking about. > > > > On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the > > FEATURES="buildpkg" (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) > > gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. > > > > If I need to use quickpkg to save the configs then I think I'll do > > that being that as I simple-minded home user with no admin experience > > I have no in-place rigorous methods for doing __any__ backups. I just > > tar up directories once in awhile and deal with the problems that come > > later. (If they come...when they come...they do come, don't they?) ;-) > > > > - Mark > > This is how I understand it. If you use buildpkg with emerge, you get > the original configs from the source tarball. If you use quickpkg, then > you get the config files YOU created. If I understand this correctly, > you can remember it this way as well. Doing it during the emerge gives > you what emerge produces. Doing it with quickpkg gives you what you > produced. > > All that and I didn't confuse myself. So, I'm probably wrong in how I > understand it. lol > > Dale > > :-) :-) no, this is entirely correct.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Graham Murray wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser > > or mail app that they are offline? > > Why does the app need to know? others already posted examples why this is needed. Also - why should I manually select something, when the system can do it for me? Do you install your files by hand or do you let portage do the job?
Re: [gentoo-user] New Gentoo system has become unstable and unusable - help, please!
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hi, Alan, > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:50:46AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 12 February 2010 10:54:53 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > > Hi, Gentoo, > > > > > > My new Gentoo box has become unusably unstable. > > > > > > The first sign was when the compiler threw a segfault whilst emerging > > > the xfce window manager. I "solved" this by emerging Openbox instead. > > > > > > Then I got another compiler segfault whilst emerging firefox (yes, I > > > know there's a binary for this). > > > > everything you mention below is indicative of failing hardware, > > especially RAM closely followed by PSU. > > Yes, you're right. :-( > > When I run memtest86 from the gentoo boot disk, it signals millions of > failures in b11 of 32 bit words. > > I'll try unplugging and replugging these. > > Thanks for the tip. > > > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com you can try upping the voltage of the ram by 0.05V. I had a stick that threw errors unless I gave it a bit more. After that the system was stable and none of the memtesting apps found any errors.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick > > wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't > >> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems > >> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. > > > > That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, KMail > > also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, not > > just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are > > intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. > > Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. > But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things that > aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is > this the correct term?) dependencies. > Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an optional > dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all > the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I > understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably > Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they > feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) > > In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some don't > mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to > disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't > consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's > an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not > using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus becomes > bloat. and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does not force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma- desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing manager
Re: [gentoo-user] New Gentoo system has become unstable and unusable - help, please!
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 12 Feb, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Hi, Gentoo, > > > > My new Gentoo box has become unusably unstable. > > Just one more reason. > > Have you got more than 4 Gb RAM installed? > > If yes, you might have to reduce memory speed. > Some CPUs (among them AMD Phenom) have difficulties > at the specified RAM speed if more than 1 memory bank is > installed. > I have been burnt by that several times. > Helmut. no, not entirely true. There is a problem with Phenoms and DDR2 1066 when for modules are installed. You can get that configuration stable with an high quality board and some voltage tricks. If you have problems at lower speed and 4banks, you have a crappy mainboard. Maybe increasing voltages a bit (0.05 to 0.1V) will help you. It did for me with one certain Asrock board.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick > >> > >> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > >> >> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't > >> >> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems > >> >> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. > >> > > >> > That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, > >> > >> KMail > >> > >> > also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, > >> > >> not > >> > >> > just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are > >> > intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. > >> > >> Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. > >> But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things > >> that > >> aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is > >> this the correct term?) dependencies. > >> Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an > >> optional > >> dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all > >> the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I > >> understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon > >> probably > >> Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they > >> feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) > >> > >> In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some > >> don't > >> mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to > >> disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't > >> consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's > >> an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not > >> using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus > >> becomes > >> bloat. > > > > and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does > > not > > force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma- > > desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing > > manager > > But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft > dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft > dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to > (I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of > whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have > symantic-desktop as a hard dependency. yes it is a good idea. Because KDE is such a modular beast you can not just install kmail, konqueror or kate. You always need a bit more for full functionality. KDE strives to be a COMPLETE, networking, work and data sharing aware desktop solution. Semantic-Desktop is a huge part of it. If you never used nepomuk, you don't even know what you are missing. > And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but > mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager. you can use whatever WM you want in KDE. Isn't that nice. > Be > it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated > part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE? what are you even talking about? > Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I > find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're > being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it > was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as "dbus is bad > because it's new". I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so > please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all ;)) no, I have the feeling that you are trolling. But see above. KDE goals is more than just a wm with some apps. That niche is filled by XFCE. And for being more than just a wm plus an asorted pile of apps, you need a certain infrastructure shared by the whole environment. KDE apps use PHONON, so they don't have to deal with the underlying sound system. KDE apps use S
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, pk wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser > > or mail app that they are offline? > > I don't have a network connection manager and I don't need that function > in a browser, mail client or any other app. > > > And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a > > clean > > I've been using computers way before D-Bus came into action and I never > suffered from nightmares... ;-) no, but you also head much less functionality. > > To me D-Bus is a bit like this: > Programmer1: (waves hands in the air) Oh, oh I know, let's invent a new > protocol that lets applications talk to each other. Way cool! > Programmer2: Oh yeah, it will simplify the situation so much. Let's do it! > Pragmatic guy: So, what are these apps going to talk about? > Programmer1 & 2 (in unison): Shut up! Don't spoil our fun by asking such > stupid questions! > and that is stupid. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. If you start konqueror - for example, it is dbus telling konqueror to start as browser - or file manager. And to load the right kpart. Oh - and that loading of kparts? The messages are sent by dbus.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, pk wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > 1. Say stuff it and build a print server into your app. We stopped doing > > that when DOS fell out of fashion. > > 2. Support all possible print systems. lpr anyone? > > 3. Or just use IPC and let dedicated print middleware deal with it. > > What's wrong with lpr? > besides being not really usefull anymore? Are you sure you have lpr? Which ones do you have? And do you have it configured for the right printers? What if you don't have lpr but cups? > > Multimedia buttons. One of the most confounding things on modern hardware > > are multimedia buttons. Volume is easy - make it adjust the sound > > server. Or you could use keybindings and have the wm do it, or you could > > send the keypresses to the configured audio app. And which one is that? > > Many apps do sound, which one will get the buttom focus? > > Don't have them, don't use them. I don't use wireless on trains > either... and never will (unless someone puts a gun to my head). you not. Millions of people do. > > > Even minimal WMs have many more such examples. Removing a sane IPC method > > that can be used everywhere instead of multiple implementations of > > similar functionality makes about as much engineering sense as claiming > > you don't need pipes in a shell. > > But D-Bus is much more than (simple) IPC. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-process_communication and because of that dbus is a great solution. Single solution for a wide range of problems. Which is pretty much anti-bloat.
Re: [gentoo-user] How should I clean up my broken system?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hi, Gentoo! > > As reported in other threads, my new PC had a broken RAM stick in it. > As a result, an unknown proportion of installed binaries are flaky. One > non-functioning binary is probably GCC. > > What I'd like to do is reinstall every binary, yet without erasing any > configuration info, whose creation was so arduous. > > Where does portage keep it's list of installed packages? /var/db/pkg > What do I have > to do to persuade portage it has _no_ installed packages before doing > 'rm -rf *' in /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin? --emtpytree > > Has anybody any other tips to offer me for this operation? tar up /etc.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, pk wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > You obviously don't know what you are talking about. > > And you obviously do? > > > If you start konqueror - for example, it is dbus telling konqueror to > > start > > > > as browser - or file manager. And to load the right kpart. Oh - and that > > loading of kparts? The messages are sent by dbus. > > I don't have konqueror nor do I use KDE/Gnome. And never will. > > Best regards > > Peter K then why do you even care about dbus?
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, pk wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > besides being not really usefull anymore? Are you sure you have lpr? > > Which ones do you have? And do you have it configured for the right > > printers? What if you don't have lpr but cups? > > Of course I use cups, don't be silly. Of course built without D-Bus > support. > > > you not. Millions of people do. > > And have you counted these millions? Or are you claiming the people who > don't care about this functionality too? well, just look at all those ubuntu users. Just for starters. > > > and because of that dbus is a great solution. Single solution for a wide > > range of problems. Which is pretty much anti-bloat. > > Great solution to what? What problems? > > This discussion has already passed the silly stage... > > Best regards > > Peter K yes, it has. There is no question that dbus is a needed and good solution. Only some people keep this alive.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, pk wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > well, just look at all those ubuntu users. Just for starters. > > Hm. And those ubuntu users have a choice? For the record, most people > using wireless anywhere are using OS's from Redmond or Cupertino > (Apple). They don't care about D-Bus either... > I would like to point out that this is 'gentoo user' not 'talk about any os' or 'windows support'. You might be surprised to learn that gentoo is a linux distribution. So why do you bring windows or apple up? > > yes, it has. There is no question that dbus is a needed and good > > solution. > > I do have that "question". All I want to say is that this is a matter of > opinion. It has nothing to do with solving a real-world problem; I guess > you will disagree with me on this as well but you see a problem where I > don't... the problems, dbus solves, have been discussed to death already. Maybe you should read Alan McKinnons mails again. You seem to have missed a lot. Neil Bothwick's mails are also something you should consider.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: New Gentoo system has become unstable and unusable - help, please!
On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, walt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > Maybe increasing voltages a bit (0.05 to 0.1V) will help you. It did for > > me with one certain Asrock board. > > This is the first I've heard of adjustable voltages. Where/how do you make > the adjustment? Bios
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote > > > You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you > > are just a stupid ass. > > > > It is not slow. > > > > You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that > > it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). > > a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources > b) dbusis not slow and does not hog resources > c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources > d) ... is not slow and does not hog resources > etc, etc, etc. > > Throw in enough "little stuff" and it eventually adds up. We seem to > be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want > being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they "only cost a > dollar a month, and surely you can afford that". Throw in 100 such > channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start > demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here. > > I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, > e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine, > kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what > had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much > demands dbus. dbus would be "bundled in" to my "basic service", i.e. > ICEWM. #except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree for apps that use dbus. The result might be a bit shocking. Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Because everything else is 'bloat'. And your tv has no way to find channels. You do it manually - with a screwdriver, I am sure.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.4: window tabbing?
On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Robin Atwood wrote: > Has anyone got the much vaunted window-tabbing of KDE 4.4 working? I have > set my middle mouse button to "Start window tab drag" but when I try it > nothing happens. Searching, I found references to a window menu option > "Move window to group" but I don't have that. I don't think there is a USE > option I have missed. Anybody have better luck? > > TIA > -Robin I have set the middle mouse button to nothing and window tabbing works great.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.4: window tabbing?
On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Robin Atwood wrote: > On Saturday 13 February 2010, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Robin Atwood wrote: > > > Has anyone got the much vaunted window-tabbing of KDE 4.4 working? I > > > have set my middle mouse button to "Start window tab drag" but when I > > > try it nothing happens. Searching, I found references to a window menu > > > option "Move window to group" but I don't have that. I don't think > > > there is a USE option I have missed. Anybody have better luck? > > > > I have set the middle mouse button to nothing and window tabbing works > > great. > > So what do you do? Do you have the new window menu option? > > -Robin I don't know ;) I just grab the titlebar with the middle button, drag the window to the window I want to tab it with and drop. Tada, tabbing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Ramifications of memtest86. Got it!
On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hi, Dale, > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 05:27:55PM -0600, Dale wrote: > > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > >The shop who sold me the components suggested running memtest86 with > > >just one RAM stick at a time. It turns out, one was duff, the other's > > >just fine. (It went ~20 minutes on memtest86 without any errors.) So > > >it looks like I'll be running on 2Gb only until I get a replacement > > >for the broken one. > > > > > > > > >Many thanks to all who helped me track this one down! > > > > > >>Dale > > >> > > >>:-) :-) > > > > There you go. Most likely one little transistor that went belly up. > > Considering there are millions of those little devils on there, no > > surprise at all. > > Oh, don't be like that! You're saying, like, another "little" transistor > will soon be going. ;-) > > > Glad you got it sorted out and that is better than a lot of other > > options. Since it is new, I hope you have a good warranty that will > > make it a cheap fix as well. > > I bought my PC components from a premium quality shop, the sort that > behaves like a gentleman and honours its guarantees. Its email support > gets back to you within an hour or so (in business hours). The > proprietor said I needed to send back _both_ RAM sticks (since they have > a joint serial number), but he's sending me a replacement pair first, so > my machine remains working. > > For all that, the cost of this PC was less than half that of its > predecessor, a 1.2 GHz Athlon machine from ~2001. With desktop PCs now > being so ridiculously cheap anyhow, it seems false economy to buy from a > lesser vendor. > > > Dale > > > > :-) :-) nothing beats a local shop where the personal knows you and they just replace your stuff when you tell them that it is defective... I gladly pay a little premium for that.
Re: [gentoo-user] Ramifications of memtest86. Got it!
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > Hi, Dale, > > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 05:27:55PM -0600, Dale wrote: > >> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > >>> The shop who sold me the components suggested running memtest86 with > >>> just one RAM stick at a time. It turns out, one was duff, the other's > >>> just fine. (It went ~20 minutes on memtest86 without any errors.) So > >>> it looks like I'll be running on 2Gb only until I get a replacement > >>> for the broken one. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Many thanks to all who helped me track this one down! > >>> > Dale > > :-) :-) > >> > >> There you go. Most likely one little transistor that went belly up. > >> Considering there are millions of those little devils on there, no > >> surprise at all. > > > > Oh, don't be like that! You're saying, like, another "little" transistor > > will soon be going. ;-) > > That's not what I meant at all. Consider the odds. There are millions > of little circuits on those chips, even a 0.0001% failure rate can mean > the chip is bad. They either all work or the chip doesn't work. > > >> Glad you got it sorted out and that is better than a lot of other > >> options. Since it is new, I hope you have a good warranty that will > >> make it a cheap fix as well. > > > > I bought my PC components from a premium quality shop, the sort that > > behaves like a gentleman and honours its guarantees. Its email support > > gets back to you within an hour or so (in business hours). The > > proprietor said I needed to send back _both_ RAM sticks (since they have > > a joint serial number), but he's sending me a replacement pair first, so > > my machine remains working. > > > > For all that, the cost of this PC was less than half that of its > > predecessor, a 1.2 GHz Athlon machine from ~2001. With desktop PCs now > > being so ridiculously cheap anyhow, it seems false economy to buy from a > > lesser vendor. > > > >> Dale > >> > >> :-) :-) > > I bought mine from newegg and they stand behind theirs too. Things is, > the person you buy them from doesn't decide if it is a bad one or not. > It's just a luck of the draw. I doubt there are many companies that > want to sell something that is broken. It's not good for business. no, but some shops just say 'ok, that is bad luck, here is a new set, try these'. And some others let you wait or just don't believe you, demand the output of certain test apps etc pp. Some years ago a friend had a stick that would produce errors only in certain scenarios (it was a muster dependent error). Most checkers back then did not find it. Our favorite shop just exchanged it And that kind of service is a good reason to buy there.
Re: [gentoo-user] How should I clean up my broken system?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:01:50 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > > The OP then doesn't have to deal with 600+ conf-update complaints > > > > > > Run conf-update and press a then d :) > > > > But I'm a paranoid snarky old git and that doesn't work for me! > > But d rejects all the changes, leaving your own configs. To be paranoid > that you are trying to hack your own computer mean you must have MPD too, > and I'm not referring to the Music Player Daemon :) > > > If I get 600 entries in conf-update I feel compelled to examine each > > one and decide individually. Just in case > > You may grow out of that, if you have time after reading all those > configs :) > > On a more serious note, conf-update automatically merges trivial changes, > so any configs you ran at the default, which is probably the majority, > won't be flaged at all. so does cfg-update
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Saturday 13 February 2010 14:07:05 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, > > > > > > e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, > > > kaffeine, kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the > > > fact that what had been a formerly-standalone media player > > > (audacious), now pretty much demands dbus. dbus would be "bundled in" > > > to my "basic service", i.e. ICEWM. > > > > #except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree > > for apps that use dbus. > > The result might be a bit shocking. > > > > Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. > > Oy! What are you trying to say? > > All my cars are stick. Down here in deepest darkest Africa you pay a > premium for auto so no-one in their right mind buys them except old ladies > and trendy hippy naffs. And we need a clutch to get the car out of the > potholes that adorn the streets. > > The bikes are all crash boxes because all bikes are like that (except > Vespas and Chinese scooters, but I don't have any of those). On the track > the clutch is mostly pointless once you're moving. > > I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle > crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. > > :-) the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] how to add an ebuild
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Skippy wrote: > Greetings; > > I'm needing to add an ebuild, but there is something I'm not doing > right it seems. > > I have xorg-server-1.6.3.901-r2.ebuild. The file that is. > > I place it in /usr/portage/x11-base/xorg-server/ you should place it in /usr/local/portage/x11-base/xorg-server > > I run "ebuild xorg-server-1.6.3.901-r2.ebuild digest" I can see that > the file Manifest is altered. > > also tried "ebuild xorg-server-1.6.3.901-r2.ebuild manifest" as man > page says those are equivilant. > > Then eix-update. > > Then "eix xorg-server" - the version I am trying to add does not appear > in the output. because it got deleted? > > What am I missing here? Other than my sanity. :) see above. You are doing it wrong. Everything in /usr/portage is nuked with the next sync if it isn't on the rsync-server. You have to put your own stuff into /usr/local/portage.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > However. ELF is analogous (with the exception that you don't > > have one or two binary apps), and nothing is stopping you from > > building everything statically, or still using .a > > Actually, if libraries hadn't been grown that extremly fat, > but instead using small tailored ones and moving the redundant > complexity to their own services, we perhaps won't need it at > all, but would be fine with small static binaries (which can > startup much faster). > > > cu startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way too fast - but symbol resolution. More libs, more work to resolve them, longer startup times.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells > > a broweser or mail app that they are offline? > > use the filesystem ? > > guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even > lets me control the network interfaces. > > > cu great for you. And how portable is your little solution?
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >>> so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells > >>> a broweser or mail app that they are offline? > >> > >> use the filesystem ? > >> > >> guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even > >> lets me control the network interfaces. > >> > >> > >> cu > > > > great for you. And how portable is your little solution? > > On the front side, very portable *and* network agnostic. You can > reach the server from practically anywhere (assuming fw allows it) > as long as you can access 9P fileservers (in theory it should also > be re-exportable through other network filesystems, even i didn > try it yet ;-o). > > The backend side (the actual interface controll stuff) yet is > linux-specific, but it can be easily adapted to other platforms. don't waste your time - dbis is already there...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > BRM wrote: > > It does not exist so that Kmail can index all the files on the > > system but for the opposite - so that Kmail can participate in > > the search by allowing the system to be able to search _its_ data. > > Just to let me get the point right: kmail provides some kind of > search/date integration driver into the semantic-desktop framework ? > > Why does this have to happen in a MUA ? Why not in an separate > service ? kmail provides the HOOKS. Also, we had enough people complaining about bloat just because of dbus. Another service? Great - but then shut up about dbus.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > KDE apps use PHONON, so they don't have to deal with the underlying sound > > system. > > KDE apps use SOLID, so they don't need to care about hardware, hot > > plugin, etc. > > KDE apps use dbus so they can share code and easily communicate. > > One thing I never understood about dbus is why does an IPC deamon > depend on X ? > And to phonon, why does an audio api depend not just on X, but also Qt ? > > > cu dbus: luckily X is not a mandatory dependendcy for dbus. phonon: because phonon is part of qt? And qt is more than just a toolkit?
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way > > Assuming you're using an harddisk (or another fast-enough > medium) at all. > > > too fast - but symbol resolution. More libs, more work to > > resolve them, longer startup times. > > Exactly. And that wouldn't be needed with static executables. no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything everytime a security bug is found. Or some other bug fixed. Oh - and didn't you just complain about bloat? Nothing means more bloat than static binaries.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > don't waste your time - dbis is already there... > > dbus lets me access my network interfaces via filesystem ? no, it is ported to different architectures.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >>> don't waste your time - dbis is already there... > >> > >> dbus lets me access my network interfaces via filesystem ? > > > > no, it is ported to different architectures. > > the only thing i have yet to port is the networking stuff. > everything else is just plain ansi-c using posix APIs. and posix works everywhere ... yeah.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything > > everytime a security bug is found. > > That's the job of the distro buildsystem. Ah, and that dramatically > minimizes the chance that things break apart (i still remember > the old times when libc updates tended to be dangerous). and even better - just introduce a single patch/updated package and everything is fine. What you are describing is maybe nice with gentoo. But a nightmare if you want something stable. Recompiling everything is not an option. Why do you think the whole industry went away from static - except for tiny embedded devices? > > > Oh - and didn't you just complain about bloat? Nothing means > > more bloat than static binaries. > > As already said, all this under the axiom that libs are *small* > and complex/redundant things are done by separate services. > Perhaps you might have a look at Plan9 and how its done there. no, under the axiom of sharable code. The size of a lib is not really important - except if you use everything. But if you compile in everything the lib does on a static basis, all your binaries are huge and bloated.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > phonon: because phonon is part of qt? And qt is more than > > just a toolkit? > > What is it then ? An own OS ? ;-o are you insisting going down the stupid road?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > Another service? > > Yes, a service that will be started only on-demand. > so I have to wait for the service to start first? Sounds even crappier. > > Great - but then shut up about dbus. > > Who the frak are you to tell me shut up ?! attacking dbus or nepomuk and then proposing a 'small service' - sounds really clever.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Montag 15 Februar 2010, Mike Edenfield wrote: > On 2/15/2010 2:20 PM, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > J. Roeleveld wrote: > >>> And *IF* some application is interested in the such information, > >>> why not just using the filesystem ? > >> > >> Because on flash-drives (Which are used in small devices and netbooks) > >> you don't want every single status update to be written to the > >> filesystem. And with minimal memory, I don't want to have a ram-disk > >> gobbling up the memory I have. > > > > Why not simply using tmpfs ? > > Or an specific synthetic filesystem ? 9P makes this really easy, > > and network agnostic. > > I'm kinda stunned that your arguments against D-Bus seems to boil down > to "just use 9p instead" given that plumber is a basic element of 9p and > does essentially the same job D-Bus does. So you're just swapping one > system-wide general-purpose IPC service out for another one? he is just trolling around.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on SSD
On Dienstag 16 Februar 2010, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: > I'm thinking of re-installing Gentoo on an Intel 40 Megs SSD -- excluding > the most often writen dirs like /var, /tmp, /home --. What do you think ? > I'll be glad to hear about previous experiences. What about swap ? Is it > safe to have it on the SSD ? I have / on ssd, but /tmp on tmpfs, /var on harddisk and swap on harddisk. I don't want to wear it down ... and 40gb is not that much.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on SSD
On Dienstag 16 Februar 2010, Grant wrote: > >> I thought SSDs were projected to > >> last longer than HDs? Also, from what I've read, SLC should last much > >> longer than MLC. > > > > It's the other way round: HD's last longer dan SSD's. [1] > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#Disadvantages > > Thanks for the link. I did some Googleing too and I'm really > surprised at what I found. It sounds like SSDs don't have the > projected longevity they did when I researched this a year or so ago. > I'm troubled by the ever-lurking possibility of an HD failure and I > thought SSDs would be my way out. Is an HD the best choice for > reliability? > > - Grant depends. Intel for example slows down the ssd if you write too much to prevent premature failure. HDD are prone to mechanical failure. SSD not. If you only do moderate writing SSD are much more reliable. If you do a lot of writing - douzends of gigabyte a day with a lot of overwriting, a HDD might be the better choice.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: > On Sunday 14 February 2010 12:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Sunday 14 February 2010 13:02:48 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > > I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle > > > > crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;) > > > > I know. I just felt like tossing sounding in that sounded awfully clever > > > > :-) > > I also like manual gearboxes and for some years I was driving an old Series > IIA Land Rover which had straight cut gears on first and second and it > whined when driven at any speed. If you didn't double declutch to go from > 2nd to 1st and occasionally from 3rd to 2nd you would eventually end up > with a box-full of gears and no forward drive! > > I also happen to own a couple of old PCs which I try to keep lean and I > don't mind the odd double declutching to change gears. Now, I understand > the development philosophy of KDE4 since this was very well explained, but > that does not stop me wishing that the developers were a bit more modular > in their approach. This is because I would like to use a few KDE apps, > but do not want to have to download and install a load of ever increasing > dependencies. I am after a pick 'n mix from the sweet shop, rather than > being 'forced' to have one of each. > > However, the point has been well made by many. KDE4 is not KDE3.x and with > KDE4 you get the full enchilada because that's what the developers have > produced. Since I do not have the ability (or time) to fork KDE4 into my > own flavour I will very much have to make do and be grateful with what > developers care to offer. As I progressively upgrade my hardware all this > aforementioned 'bloat' will no doubt be less of a concern, but as things > are maturing in the Linux land my old laptop has been getting slower and > slower over the years when running X. I can blame this on Xorg, but the > applications themselves are getting heavier somewhat too. > > I wonder if there is enough of a user requirement here for some of us to > knock up a few wiki pages of how to build a slimmer gentoo, choices of > lightweight WMs, desktop apps of choice, etc. you want dependency nightmare? openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. I don't need wordperfect, I don't want gnome. No way to get rid of that crap. Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%&§$@& even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. If freedesktop wouldn't be that sick joke it is, such behaviour wouldn't be.
Re: [gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:15:14 +0100, Enrico Weigelt > > wrote: > > Peter Humphrey wrote: > >> Outside USA we have no illusions of saving time by adjusting our clocks. > > > > When it comes to politicians, I'm not quite that sure. Over here > > in Germany, there're lots of them who still believe in that > > insane idea of messing up the clocks would bring anything but > > useless hassle. I really wonder if there's some hidden lobby > > which benefits from this crap or it's really just stupidity ;-O > > > > > > cu > > Well daylight savings do make sense. The idea isn't as much to gain hours > in a day, we have 24 hours in a day. The idea is for the body to follow > the rhythm of the day. Noon is when the sun is at its highest. Depending > on how the sun is positioned in comparison to the earth. So it makes sense > with daylight savings, although it does mean that I go to school when it's > dark and come home after dark. no, for the exact reasons you wrote, daylight saving make no sense. With daylight savings the sun is not the highest at noon. And changing time puts a lot of stress on the body. For health reasons it should be scrapped. For energy saving reasons even more so.
Re: [gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:09:25 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > no, for the exact reasons you wrote, daylight saving make no sense. > > With daylight savings the sun is not the highest at noon. And changing > > time puts a lot of stress on the body. > > But it means you spend more of your waking hours in daylight (unless > you're a postman or milkman), which has both health and environmental > benefits not really. If I have to get up at 4am in the morning to reach my job at 7 the difference at morning is negligible. And in the evening? Since I am home early, no difference at all. And environmental benefits? Are you kidding? There are no energy savings with day light savings. More lights are used in the morning. More energy used for heaters. If daylight saving would reduce energy usage, it would have been banned decades ago. > Of course, the whole thing of the tagline came about because of the name, > you are not saving daylight at all. In the UK, it's called Summer Time, > probably because that means we can tell when it's summer by checking the > clock settings :) It is called summertime in Germany too. I am living in more rural Germany - and the cows are not very happy about it. Neither are the farmers.
Re: [gentoo-user] Rethinking binfmts [WAS: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?]
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > For example, debugging information doesnt need to exist within the > binary itself. An external file would be fine, too, and allows > removing them by standard file operations. man make.conf: splitdebug Prior to stripping ELF etdyn and etexec files, the debugging info is stored for later use by various debuggers. This feature is disabled by nostrip. For installation of source code, see installsources. http://phajdan-jr.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-to-get-useful-backtraces-almost- for.html http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/backtraces.xml With splitdebug enabled, Portage will still strip the binaries installed in the system. But before doing that, all the useful debug information is copied to a ".debug" file, which is then installed inside /usr/lib/debug (the complete name of the file would be given by appending to that the path where the file is actually installed). The path to that file is then saved in the original file inside an ELF section called ".gnu_debuglink", so that gdb knows which file to load the symbols from. for someone so highly critical you should do some more reading.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: > > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >> openoffice depends on libwpd > >> libwpd depends on libgsf > >> libgsf pulls gconf in. > > > > Hm. I actually have OO (non-binary version) installed althoughI dislike > > bloat... However, I don't have gconf installed (USE: -gnome, globally in > > make.conf). I run stable so that, of course, may be different for ~arch > > or something... > > > >> Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does > >> not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have > >> to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%&§$@& even low level libs and > >> apps pull in that shit today. > > > > Well, try to pull in K3b and you'll also get the "kitchen& the sink" > > with _mandatory_ USE-flag 'accessibility' amongst other things. I had > > K3b working fine before KDE4 with minimal KDE support libs. So I gave > > K3b up. Oh, well, progress I guess... :-/ > > > > Best regards / MfG > > > > Peter K > > What did you use in place of k3b? Is it a GUI or command line? > you could try tkdvd. It is ugly but pretty much feature complete.
Re: [gentoo-user] hdparm -d 1 -X 68 ?
On Donnerstag 18 Februar 2010, James wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> hdparm -i /dev/hda
>
> Model=IBM-DJNA-371350, FwRev=J76OA30K, SerialNo=GM0GMGB6505
> Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
> RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=34
> BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=1966kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
> CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=26520480
> IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
> PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
> DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
> UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 *udma2 udma3 udma4
> AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled
> Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-4 T13 1153D revision 17: ATA/ATAPI-1,2,3,4
>
> * signifies the current active mode
>
>
> Should I put the drive into udma4 mode?
>
> If so, wouldn't I use:
>
> hdparm -d 1 -X 68 /dev/hda
>
>
> ???
>
>
> James
no
usually the kernel chooses the right mode. If this one is lower than expected,
you shouldn't mess with it. Either grep for your drive or controller in the
kernel sources - it might be blacklisted - or get a different cable.
Never set udma modes.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: hdparm -d 1 -X 68 ?
On Donnerstag 18 Februar 2010, walt wrote: > On 02/18/2010 01:57 PM, Mick wrote: > > On Thursday 18 February 2010 14:33:38 James wrote: > >> Should I put the drive into udma4 mode? > >> > >> If so, wouldn't I use: > >> > >> hdparm -d 1 -X 68 /dev/hda > > > > According to the hitachi manual (who made this drive for IBM) the > > DJNA-3X series has a Ultra ATA Mode 2 (33.3 MB per second) > > capability. So the kernel is not lying in this case and you can trust > > hdparm in what it shows. I suggest you leave alone. > > Shouldn't the drive just refuse any command that it can't do? udma4 has not additional commands. It is just faster. And no, some drivers don't. With desastrous results. Don't set the udma mode. Ever.
Re: [gentoo-user] When copying an os to new disk
On Freitag 19 Februar 2010, Harry Putnam wrote: > I'm currently rsyncing an OS (new gentoo install) from one vmware disk > to a newly created one. > > I know not to copy /proc but not sure about /dev. Looking at an > unbooted OS disk with an install on it... I see /dev/ is populated > (with no boot up), but I recall seeing things during boot like > `populating /dev' (I think). > > So should I copy it over to new disk or not? no. You just create /dev/null, /dev/console and /dev/zero. Everything else is optional and not needed. man mknod will tell you everything you need to know.
Re: [gentoo-user] no libdri.so with ati-drivers-10.1
On Samstag 20 Februar 2010, Adam wrote: > I tried 10.1 but just got a blank screen. The log file shows that xorg > couldnt load libdri.so, and the file is missing under /usr/lib64/xorg. > (its at /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/extensions/libdri.so in 9.9-r2) > > So, any ideas or should i issue a bug report? afaik that file is not needed anymore.
Re: [gentoo-user] How should I clean up my broken system?
On Samstag 20 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: > On Sunday 14 February 2010 11:32:12 Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:03:40 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > > On a more serious note, conf-update automatically merges trivial > > > > changes, so any configs you ran at the default, which is probably the > > > > majority, won't be flaged at all. > > > > > > so does cfg-update > > > > Every now and then, someone mentions cfg-update - usually you :) - and I > > give it another try, but I don't really get on with it and always go back > > to conf-update. There's nothing specific wrong with it, I just prefer (or > > am used to) conf-update. > > > > I expect that if I were still using etc-update or dispatch-conf I would > > welcome it with open arms though. > > You make me feel out of touch with Gentoo! Is dispatch-conf and etc-update > that bad then? Not bad - not good enough.
Re: [gentoo-user] reiser4 Vs reiserfs for / on new Gentoo isntallation
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: > I know that some of you have been using reiser4 for some years now. > How does it compare in performance and reliability in terms to > reiserfs and xfs? > they don't even come close in performance. XFS sucks with files who are not multi megabyte in size. > A few years ago I remember there were problems compiling or running > some applications/libraries on reiser4 - are these problems now over? > Any gotchas? a lng time ago there was a bug when compiling kde and without compression. Fixed shortly afterwards, never had a problem again.
Re: [gentoo-user] how to emerge mldonkey?
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Xi Shen wrote: > hi, > > i got a wired problem. when i was trying to emerge net-p2p/mldonkey, > the process hanged at this step: > " > > Checking Ocaml compiler. > > checking for ocamlc.opt... /usr/bin/ocamlc.opt > checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-ocamlc... /usr/bin/ocamlc.opt > checking for camlp4... /usr/bin/camlp4 > Need build > Objective-Caml 3.10 is required * > *** Check http://caml.inria.fr/ > Do you want this script to try to download and install ocaml > LOCALLY in mldonkey directory ? > " > > i tried to type 'y'/'yes' and press enter, but it takes no effect. you were lucky. Never let some stupid package install some stuff. > what should i do? i never got questioned when emerging something. emerge dev-lang/ocaml
Re: [gentoo-user] reiser4 Vs reiserfs for / on new Gentoo isntallation
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: > On 21 February 2010 14:03, Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: > >> I know that some of you have been using reiser4 for some years now. > >> How does it compare in performance and reliability in terms to > >> reiserfs and xfs? > > > > they don't even come close in performance. XFS sucks with files who are > > not multi megabyte in size. > > > >> A few years ago I remember there were problems compiling or running > >> some applications/libraries on reiser4 - are these problems now over? > >> Any gotchas? > > > > a lng time ago there was a bug when compiling kde and without > > compression. Fixed shortly afterwards, never had a problem again. > > Thanks Volker for a prompt reply. Is reiser4 still being developed, > or is Linux now moving towards ext4? linux is moving toward btrfs. ext4 is just a stop gap measure. One that is only a good alternative if you don't care about your data. btw, the one point that kept resier4 out was 'layer violations'. Interesstingly btrfs is nothing but a huge 'violation' ... And yes, Edward is still working on it.
Re: [gentoo-user] how to emerge mldonkey?
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Crístian Viana wrote: > then how was this ebuild (net-p2p/mldonkey-3.0.0) considered stable? a) LTQ b) read the ebuild thank you.
Re: [gentoo-user] MySQL 5.1 and Amarok
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Sunday 21 February 2010 11:44:18 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > It's not possible to use Amarok with the "embedded" USE flag with the > > newly released MySQL 5.1. Why is that? Can we expect it to work at > > some point? > > Do you mean it doesn't work, or the upgrade is dogdy with blocker messages > that seem to have no source, make no sense, and no reason given? > > My update this morning would not proceed with amarok-2.2.2 installed, and > portage could not work it's automagic. Unmerging amarok, emergeing world, > then merging amarok-2.2.2.90 seems to be proceeding fine, it's building as > I type. > > No guarantees it will succeed though... > Or that it will work in any sane fashion. > > I'm starting to get really ticked off with amarok. The trials the devs have > put me through defy belief, what is so bad about typing emerge amarok? openoffice - now that is a real bitch...
Re: [gentoo-user] how to emerge mldonkey?
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Stroller wrote: > On 21 Feb 2010, at 14:37, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Crístian Viana wrote: > >> then how was this ebuild (net-p2p/mldonkey-3.0.0) considered stable? > > > > a) LTQ > > Love that quiche, too, dude! > > > b) read the ebuild > > Which part? > > Stroller. all of it
Re: [gentoo-user] Konqueror and Cyclic Link Detection
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, ubiquitous1980 wrote: > I cannot log into my bank website (Westpac Banking Corporation) due to a > Cyclic Link Detection in Konqueror. Any ideas on how to resolve? tell them their webpage is broken?
Re: [gentoo-user] MySQL 5.1 and Amarok
On Sonntag 21 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > It's not possible to use Amarok with the "embedded" USE flag with the > newly released MySQL 5.1. Why is that? Can we expect it to work at > some point? you can use amarok with embedded useflag. just unmerge it and emerge it again - I just tried it. It is not much of a difference if you have to do it or revdep-rebuilt is doing it It works.
Re: [gentoo-user] How should I clean up my broken system?
On Montag 22 Februar 2010, daid kahl wrote: > >> > > > On a more serious note, conf-update automatically merges trivial > >> > > > changes, so any configs you ran at the default, which is probably > >> > > > the majority, won't be flaged at all. > >> > > > >> > > so does cfg-update > >> > > >> > Every now and then, someone mentions cfg-update - usually you :) - and > >> > I give it another try, but I don't really get on with it and always > >> > go back to conf-update. There's nothing specific wrong with it, I > >> > just prefer (or am used to) conf-update. > >> > > >> > I expect that if I were still using etc-update or dispatch-conf I > >> > would welcome it with open arms though. > > Yay, thanks for the ideas. dispatch-conf was a welcome change from > etc-update, so this must be the next step. And just in time too, I > updated to ~x86 last week, and I left around the 11 config files that > need more than just hand waving to deal with (looks like important > changes, but I did modifications as well to those cases). > > >> You make me feel out of touch with Gentoo! Is dispatch-conf and > >> etc-update that bad then? > > > > out of touch would be rolling your own config update tool, like me ;) > > It hasn't changed much since I started using Gentoo... > > > > -- > > Iain Buchanan > > Sharing is caring! Can we try it? More importantly, would we want to? > > I'm wondering if some of these config manglers have configs > themselves, or some place to keep track of the configs I want like red > flagged to not get accidentially overwritten (sorry I didn't read the > man pages yet because I didn't get too screwed without), because I > want to keep track of the ones I edit other than some text file or my > memory "oh yeah, vim I hated the auto-line wrapping...where's that > backup from last week?" > > ~daid well, cfg-update keeps a backup. It detects manual edits and try to resolve conflicts resulting from that automatically. Which works surprisingly well. If it can not resolve them itself, it opens a diff app you set in its config - like kdiff3, sdiff, beediff... etc. You do your changes, save, quit, cfg-update does the rest - and next time remembers what you did.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kde4 panelbar recovery
On Montag 22 Februar 2010, James wrote: > Nikos Chantziaras arcor.de> writes: > > With the mouse. > > Must be something wrong. These panels that fire up > are disfunctional. Cant move add or delete too them > > > You might want to delete your ~/.kde4 folder instead to get back at the > > defaults. Keep the stuff you want though (like settings for other > > programs, like Amarok, Kopete, etc.) > > It seems really stupid there is not way to recover kicker and such > without deleting the entire folder. just remove plamsarc or plasmadesktoprc > > > More kde4 snafus I found lots of evidence where folks had done > the exact same thing, with no simple recovery... well, add panel, adding widgets did it for me.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!
On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer > important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia. > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need from > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and > documentation toolchains or in a browser. > > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from running > out of disk space. A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles. It turns out > to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've got a lot of space here and > there, but my /home partition was never near full before. > > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences. I'm seriously > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system, > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games. > Similarly for gnome. But I wonder what I should do about the rest. > > Ideas? just deactivate it. But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk just needs 600mb...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!
On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Mike Edenfield wrote: > On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > >>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer > >>> important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia. > >>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need > >>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for > >>> multiple desktops. > >>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation > >>> toolchains or in a browser. > >>> > >>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from > >>> running out of disk space. A little research showed that an > >>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some > >>> dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've > >>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never > >>> near full before. > >> > >> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world. emerge > >> -a --depclean. That should do it. > > > > Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the > > semantic-desktop use flag set? > > For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn > off the services after installing them. > > Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment, > he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk > space. > > --Mike the thing is - xfce does not necessarily use less ram. And semantic desktop can help him to easily find data points over a multitude of documents..,..
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!
On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote: > > On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote: > >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer > important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia. > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need > from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for > multiple desktops. > I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation > toolchains or in a browser. > > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from > running out of disk space. A little research showed that an > odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some > dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've > got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never > near full before. > >>> > >>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world. emerge > >>> -a --depclean. That should do it. > >> > >> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the > >> semantic-desktop use flag set? > > > > For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn > > off the services after installing them. > > > > Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment, > > he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk > > space. > > How do you know what he needs? He probably wants KDE but without the > whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy. he wrote: > Thanks. My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the size. Some occasional sluggishness too. It makes no sense to index any of this, so ditching it feels good. and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!
On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 02/24/2010 07:08 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote: > >>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote: > >>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > >>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer > >>>>>> important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia. > >>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need > >>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for > >>>>>> multiple desktops. > >>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation > >>>>>> toolchains or in a browser. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from > >>>>>> running out of disk space. A little research showed that an > >>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in > >>>>>> some dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. > >>>>>> I've got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was > >>>>>> never near full before. > >>>>> > >>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world. > >>>>> emerge -a --depclean. That should do it. > >>>> > >>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the > >>>> semantic-desktop use flag set? > >>> > >>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn > >>> off the services after installing them. > >>> > >>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment, > >>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk > >>> space. > >> > >> How do you know what he needs? He probably wants KDE but without the > >> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy. > > > > he wrote: > >> Thanks. My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files > > > > and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the > > size. Some occasional sluggishness too. It makes no sense to index any > > of this, so ditching it feels good. > > > > and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads. > > I don't understand your reply or what it answers. because you haven't read the thread before you wrote your email?
Re: [gentoo-user] How to untar without first knowing the tar contents?
On Donnerstag 25 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > Hi, >I backed up my wife's home directory using tar in preparation to > moving her to a new machine but I don't remember the exact command I > used to do the tar command. When I tried to untar on the new machine > it failed to do anything. (except use 30 minutes of CPU time...) > > MacMini home # tar -xjf /mnt/cdrom/evelyn.20100214.tar.bz2 /home/evelyn/ > tar: /home/evelyn: Not found in archive > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > MacMini home # > > I'm currently running > > tar -tz /mnt/cdrom/evelyn.20100214.tar.bz2 > > and it's been going 15 minutes without writing anything to the screen. > I assume that I need to list the contents of the tar file to figure > out how to untar but I'm really not sure. > >How do I best proceed? > > Thanks, > Mark a different kernel? I had a problem with systemresucecd a couple of weeks ago. Unpacking a tar file with multi gb size took more than an hour - for 300mb. I booted into my backup gentoo where untarring the whole thing took less
Re: [gentoo-user] What is the proper fstab line for shm memory (tmpfs)
On Freitag 26 Februar 2010, William Kenworthy wrote: > I have a number of systems with different shm lines in fstab - but which > is correct? - I think they all work, but which is best (and why)? The > main use I am concerned about is a PXE system with root over nfs where I > am putting the portage tmp and some other stuff in tmpfs for speed. > > tmpfs /dev/shmtmpfs defaults0 0 > shm /dev/shmtmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec 0 0 > none /dev/shmtmpfs defaults0 0 > > I suspect the middle line is correct. > > BillK I have shm /dev/shmtmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec 0 0 for ages in fstab. If it is wrong, I am living a lie for years now.
Re: [gentoo-user] recovery from /var corruption?
On Freitag 26 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > > The machine _mostly_ crashed while running badblocks. I say mostly > because the mouse is still alive but I can no longer ssh in and cannot > open a terminal on my wife's desktop or get to the console. because it is not crashed but waiting for the ide timeouts. > > I tried to Ctrl-C out out of badblocks here (this is running shelled > in) before I figured out it was a total crash which messed up the > terminal a bit but you can see what it was reporting before the crash > > dragonfly ~ # badblocks -sv /dev/hda > Checking blocks 0 to 156290903 > Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): 89360960done, 35:00 elapsed > 89360961done, 35:09 elapsed > 89360962 > 89360963 > ^C^C18% done, 35:27 elapsed > > So, there seem to be problems, possibly with the drive, or maybe it's > some sort of overheating problem on the processor and this was just > the way the processor failed before the crash? > > I ran memtest86 night before last for 8 hours and had no memory > problems. I'll remove memory and PCI cards, reseat everything, and > then see what happens. protip: if you are running badblocks (or ddrescue) on a probably damaged device - attach it with an usb adapter. That way your box is still usable. /me hates linux kernel for making processes in D unkillable and sucking very much on diskio.
Re: [gentoo-user] recovery from /var corruption?
On Freitag 26 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann > > wrote: > > On Freitag 26 Februar 2010, Mark Knecht wrote: > >> The machine _mostly_ crashed while running badblocks. I say mostly > >> because the mouse is still alive but I can no longer ssh in and cannot > >> open a terminal on my wife's desktop or get to the console. > > > > because it is not crashed but waiting for the ide timeouts. > > So if I let it continue running is it going to come back in the next > hour or two? yes > I am assuming the IDE timeouts are because the drive is > having trouble, correct? That's the theory here? yes > If so then unless the software can mark them bad and somehow create good files out of bad > then I'm still left with a machine that is going to need serious work > done before it's a happy box again, correct? and with 'serious work' you mean 'replace the harddisk' ... > > On the other hand, because I have reasonably good user backups > (although no real system backups) right now if I bite the bullet and > build the machine then when my wife gets it back it's hopefully going > to be more reliable, wouldn't it? yes > > I'm thinking that maybe I just copy a little stuff off the box - /etc > and the like - and then boot the machine with the Gentoo install CD or > System Resuce CD and see what the drive is doing? you could do that. > > That doesn't cost me anything to look around, but if SMART won't turn > on and badblocks is suggesting the drive is having trouble maybe > running something like badblocks and actually __marking__ blocks as > bad and then reloading Gentoo would work in the long run? (A lot of > work though.) you would need to save the badblocks to a file, than feed that file to mkfs. And you are not even save - because when a drive starts to have bad blocks the chance that more are popping up some is pretty high. So you might be lucky and the drive is able to run for a long while (even maybe mapping out bad blocks while testing them - so always run badblocks twice), but you have at least a as a good chance that the whole thing starts over in a couple of weeks. > > I'm really not interested in buying new drive because the machine is > ATA100/133 and if it's not the drive then the money is wasted for a > new machine. The cheapest at NewEgg is about $40. Why spend the buck > for an old Intel Centrino machine? you could take the drive with you when you buy a new machine. Moving harddisks is not that hard. Or put it in an usb enclosure when you don't need it anymore. ide-usb enclosures are cheap.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE4 applications are spamming stderr to death
On Freitag 26 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Is it normal that every KDE (4.4.0) application is generating an awful
> lot of debug messages on stderr? When I start one from the terminal (be
> it Dolphin, Konqueror or whatever) the output generated is pretty much
> gigantic. It's stuff like this:
>
>QPainter::setPen: Painter not active
>QPainter::font: Painter not active
>QPainter::font: Painter not active
>QPainter::setFont: Painter not active
>QPainter::setPen: Painter not active
>QPainter::font: Painter not active
>konqueror(12426)/kio (Slave) KIO::Slave::createSlave: createSlave
>"file" for KUrl("file:///usr/share/apps/kdeui/about/box-top-
>middle.png")
>konqueror(12426)/kio (KIOConnection)
>KIO::ConnectionServer::listenForRemote: Listening on "local:/tmp
>/ksocket-realnc/konquerorb12426.slave-socket"
>kio_file(12429)/kio (kioslave) KIO::SlaveBase::mimeType: "image/png"
>kio_file(12431)/kio (kioslave) KIO::SlaveBase::mimeType: "image/png"
>kio_file(12433)/kio (kioslave) KIO::SlaveBase::mimeType: "image/png"
>kio_file(12435)/kio (kioslave) KIO::SlaveBase::mimeType: "image/png"
>konqueror(12426)/kio (Slave) KIO::Slave::createSlave: createSlave
>"file" for KUrl("file:///usr/share/apps/kdeui/about/box-middle-
>left.png")
>kio_file(12443) kdemain: Starting 12443
>[...]
>[etc, etc, ad infinitum]
>
> Currently, after about 2 hours of uptime, my ~/.xsession-errors is about
> 12MB big and full with those debug messages.
>
> The "debug" USE flag is globally disabled. What's going on? I doubt
> this is intended behavior.
the debug flag has nothing to do with this.
Why don't you open a nice bug at bugs.kde.org?
