pulseaudio related problems....

[Christian PERRIER]

Quoting Matthias Urlichs (sm...@smurf.noris.de):
> Hi,
> 
> Salvo Tomaselli:
> > 
> > > You can restart pulse. No big problem except temporary interrupt of audio,
> > You mean a temporary presence of audio that will immediately go away as 
> > soon 
> > as pulse is running again right?
> > 
> Don't be daft. My audio works perfectly. So does lots of other people's.
> 
> If yours doesn't, file a bug.

I happened to come on this thread and finally learned that purging
pulseaudio from one's system seems to be the way to get sound working
back again in some situations. And, guess what? This is exactly the
problem I was having for weeks now;..:-)

As sound stuff is kind of black magic for me, I had no idea where to
investigate. Random tests, and attempts to look at various log files
weren't leading anywhere and I was left with no sound...:-)

Until I came up on this thread and just "apt-get purge pulseaudio" and
then, voilà, after a reboot, sound is working again in my KDE
environment.

But, doh, I feel like a Windows user doing some voodoo black magic,
and fixing things by rebooting. Not really comfortable.

So, well, I can certaily file a bug report about pulseaudio but I'm
not really sure if I can be really helpful in investigating
itbecause it will mostly be the kind of bug report I hate, as a
maintainer : no real information and just "things don't work" stuff.

So, before doing so: will that be helpful?

Indeed, I don't really see anything in pulseaudio bugs about this so I
assume it can be helpful but I prefer checking first whether I can
make a more helpful bug report...:-)




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Re: Ubuntu will switch to systemd

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Noah Meyerhans's message of 2014-02-14 14:47:49 -0800:
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 07:40:20PM +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > > I have to admit that I did *not* expect this. At all.
> > > 
> > > http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
> > > 
> > 
> > Quite the opposite - some people felt it would be inevitable that
> > Debian choosing systemd would effectively be a death sentence for Upstart
> 
> I'm not sure I understand why. Debian and Ubuntu have been using
> different init systems for some time now, with Ubuntu on upstart and
> Debian on sysvinit. Why should our change of defaults really matter to
> them, when they weren't using our default anyway?
> 

Because Ubuntu was pushing hard on boot speed and being more event
driven. In places where Ubuntu is focused, it will often diverge from
Debian for a while, or in the case of Unity for instance, forever.

But it is turning out that systemd still upholds Ubuntu's reasons for
making Upstart, but without the "go it alone" problems that have been
present since systemd appeared and supplanted Upstart in so many
distros.


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/15/2014 09:22 AM, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> So, before doing so: will that be helpful?

I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with
one input jack and one output jack and any application using it just
has to find the sound card and output its audio signal.

It's not as simple as that anymore. Modern audio codecs have tons of
options and volume controls, and - from my experience - most problems
to PulseAudio relate to the sound card being incorrectly configured.

To resolve this problem, people then try to use tools like alsamixer
and naturally, since alsamixer doesn't know anything about PulseAudio,
it cannot fully configure it.

So, in order to be able to properly configure PulseAudio, install
"pavucontrol" or use the sound preferences in GNOME3 or MATE (with
the package mate-media-pulse being installed).

Then run pavucontrol or the MATE/GNOME sound preferences and make
sure that:

* the proper sound card has been selected (it might be set to
  HDMI audio if your graphics card has HDMI)
* the proper sound output/input you want to use
  is selected and not muted
* the sound card is set to Analog Duplex Stereo

When using MATE, make sure you are actually the PulseAudio control
panel, not the old ALSA-type one, those are not the same.

There are some pitfalls when using PulseAudio and expecting it to
behave exactly like plain ALSA. PulseAudio provides much more features
and possible configuration settings, so one has to be sure to get
these right.

I also highly recommend asking in the #pulse-audio channel on FreeNode
(if I remember that that was the proper name of the channel). Those
people are awesome and it usually takes a few minutes and you have
your problem resolved.

Adrian

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Christian PERRIER]

(admitedly, d-d is not the right place.I make the promise I won't
steal the list for too long but, hey, this thread has already been
useful to at least one person, so let's try to make it even mor euseful)

Quoting John Paul Adrian Glaubitz (glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de):
> On 02/15/2014 09:22 AM, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> > So, before doing so: will that be helpful?
> 
> I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
> have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with
> one input jack and one output jack and any application using it just
> has to find the sound card and output its audio signal.

I'm one of these people. I indeed don't remember installing pulseaudio
voluntarily. It probably came out as a Recommends from something else
(my system runs unstable, with KDE as DE and hasn't been reinstalled
since.well, maybe woody? :-)))

> So, in order to be able to properly configure PulseAudio, install
> "pavucontrol" or use the sound preferences in GNOME3 or MATE (with
> the package mate-media-pulse being installed).

IIRC, using the KDE sound preferences, I was not "seeing" any sound
card *at all*...until I removed Pulseaudio. I can for sure try
reinstalling the package again and check what happens, with some
guidance, for sure.


> When using MATE, make sure you are actually the PulseAudio control
> panel, not the old ALSA-type one, those are not the same.

Indeed, no idea if the standard KDE sound control thingie is one of
these things, indeed and "old" one or a "new" one...;-)

(I'm very good at playing the dumb userI have plenty of those at work)

By the way: thanks for your detailed answer. I'm sure that will be
helpful and maybe not only for meeven if we're quickly running OT here...



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Re: Call to fork

[Jonathan Dowland]

> On 11 Feb 2014, at 16:40, Matthias Urlichs  wrote:
> 
> (a) please tell us which feature is only available with upstart.

Please don't.


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Philipp Kern]

On 2014-02-14 16:42, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:

On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 04:39:25PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:

> Are buildd people happy with humans sending their logs this way?
Well, I am, but it's probably not my call.

Which keyring does it use to validate? Can DMs send logs? Does it
validate at all, or can some script kiddies use it as a pastebin
service? :)


That's why I was careful to publish the address nowhere. We do some 
checks, but we still need to be able to receive mail from non-DSA'ed 
buildds. Otherwise I would have blocked mail reception from the 
internets. (We do receive some few spam mails. Now there will be plenty. 
Thanks.)


Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014, Philipp Kern wrote:
> That's why I was careful to publish the address nowhere. We do some

Unfortunately, that cat is out of the bag, now.  Whether it will get spammed
or attacked, I don't know.

However, it is not like we ever could trust the logs anyway for any security
purposes, as they are not signed by the same key that signed the respective
changes file for the upload.  Currently, they're useful for debug purposes,
and that's it (which is fine).

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Ubuntu will switch to systemd

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014, Noah Meyerhans wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand why. Debian and Ubuntu have been using
> different init systems for some time now, with Ubuntu on upstart and
> Debian on sysvinit. Why should our change of defaults really matter to
> them, when they weren't using our default anyway?
> 
> Or might they be resigned to the "tight coupling" that Ian Jackson is so
> worried about? As Debian becomes more tightly bound to systemd, using
> something else may prove increasingly difficult.

Well, it is difficult to second-guess Shuttelworth, but the "tight coupling"
is likely to be part of it.  This was a non-issue with sysvinit (for Debian)
and upstart (for Ubuntu), but with systemd we will have to get involved
upstream.

Debian and Ubuntu together have enough weight to affect systemd development
somewhat, and more imporantly, enough resources to permanently maintain a
fork should that ever become necessary (I have no reasons to belive it will
happen, and I don't count minor distro-specific changes as a fork).

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Ean Schuessler]

- "John Paul Adrian Glaubitz"  wrote:

> I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
> have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with
> one input jack and one output jack and any application using it just
> has to find the sound card and output its audio signal.
...
> So, in order to be able to properly configure PulseAudio, install
> "pavucontrol" or use the sound preferences in GNOME3 or MATE (with
> the package mate-media-pulse being installed).

I have occasionally seen PulseAudio select the "Null Output" as
the default device and stick that way. If the user doesn't know 
about pavucontrol then they may never figure this out.


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Jakub Wilk]

* Philipp Kern , 2014-02-15, 15:19:

Are buildd people happy with humans sending their logs this way?

Well, I am, but it's probably not my call.
Which keyring does it use to validate? Can DMs send logs? Does it 
validate at all, or can some script kiddies use it as a pastebin 
service? :)

That's why I was careful to publish the address nowhere.


It's published here:
http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/wanna-build-states
archive.org tells me it's been there since at least 2004.

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: Ubuntu will switch to systemd

[Tollef Fog Heen]

]] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 

> Well, it is difficult to second-guess Shuttelworth, but the "tight coupling"
> is likely to be part of it.  This was a non-issue with sysvinit (for Debian)
> and upstart (for Ubuntu), but with systemd we will have to get involved
> upstream.
> 
> Debian and Ubuntu together have enough weight to affect systemd development
> somewhat, and more imporantly, enough resources to permanently maintain a
> fork should that ever become necessary (I have no reasons to belive it will
> happen, and I don't count minor distro-specific changes as a fork).

You make it sound like we are not involved upstream and that we don't
already have weight to affect systemd development.  Neither of those are
true.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Philipp Kern]

On 2014-02-15 15:34, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014, Philipp Kern wrote:

That's why I was careful to publish the address nowhere. We do some


Unfortunately, that cat is out of the bag, now.  Whether it will get 
spammed

or attacked, I don't know.

However, it is not like we ever could trust the logs anyway for any 
security
purposes, as they are not signed by the same key that signed the 
respective
changes file for the upload.  Currently, they're useful for debug 
purposes,

and that's it (which is fine).


Yeah, they could be, if sbuild is extended to sign the logs. That said, 
we do trust our mail-in. We can trust the received headers to some 
degree (for timestamps and where the mail came from), but we cannot rule 
out on-disk tampering.


Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Bug#739064: ITP: liblogging -- easy to use and lightweight logging library

[Michael Biebl]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Michael Biebl 

* Package name: liblogging
  Version : 1.0.1
  Upstream Author : Rainer Gerhards 
* URL : http://www.liblogging.org/
* License : BSD-2-Clause
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : an easy to use and lightweight logging library


A detailed description can be found at
https://github.com/rsyslog/liblogging

liblogging consists of multiple components: stdlog, rfc3195, journalemu
For now, only liblogging-stdlog will be packaged, as it is a new
dependency of rsyslog 7.6.0

Think of liblogging-stdlog as the next version of the syslog(3) API. It
retains the easy semantics, but makes the API more sophisticated "behind
the scenes" with better support for multiple threads and flexibility for
different log destinations. It provides seperation of concerns, where
the application developer is responsible only for logging, but the
administrator can select the log diver, e.g. go to syslog, file or
systemd journal. In that sense, it is similar to log4j.


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Bug#739080: ITP: tapsim -- Atom probe experiment simulator

[D Haley]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: D Haley 

* Package name: tapsim
  Version : 1.0b.r766
  Upstream Author : Christian Oberforfer  http://www.uni-muenster.de/Physik.MP/Schmitz/en/tapsim/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C, C++
  Description : Atom probe experiment simulator

 Simulation package for Atom Probe measurements of samples with
 heterogenous evaporation properties. It allows the theoretical analysis
 of tips with arbitrary shape, with arbitrary atomic structure and
 well-defined chemical composition. In this regard, practically no
 limitations exist. Each tip atom is represented by a Wigner-Seitz cell.


Sponsor is required. Plan to maintain as part of debian-science.


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Re: Ubuntu will switch to systemd

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 
> > Well, it is difficult to second-guess Shuttelworth, but the "tight coupling"
> > is likely to be part of it.  This was a non-issue with sysvinit (for Debian)
> > and upstart (for Ubuntu), but with systemd we will have to get involved
> > upstream.
> > 
> > Debian and Ubuntu together have enough weight to affect systemd development
> > somewhat, and more imporantly, enough resources to permanently maintain a
> > fork should that ever become necessary (I have no reasons to belive it will
> > happen, and I don't count minor distro-specific changes as a fork).
> 
> You make it sound like we are not involved upstream and that we don't
> already have weight to affect systemd development.  Neither of those are
> true.

I didn't mean to imply Debian had no involvement or influence with systemd
upstream, so thanks for clearing that up.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Honestly, fork systemd

[Daniel Pocock]

On 14/02/14 14:58, Aigars Mahinovs wrote:
> On 14 February 2014 13:42, ChaosEsque Team  wrote:
>> The systemd fans ban anyone who say fork-that to systemd.
> 
> Not respecting the communication culture of the project is a perfectly
> reasonable reason for a ban, regardless of the opinion expressed by
> the banned or held by the banners.
> 
>> What can we do?
>> Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
> 
> During this whole debate what I came away feeling is that the
> strongest point of criticism against systemd was not technical or
> structural, but rather social - there is a significant and vocal
> discontent with the decision making process in systemd and with some
> specific decisions made with that process. Which leads to a fear of
> possible future problematic decisions.
> 
> If that is not a reason enough to reject systemd from consideration
> (and apparently it is not), then there is another solution with a long
> history of success in open source community - *fork systemd*.
> 
> Debian appears to have some important requirements and wishes that
> current upstream does not consider valid. If the current upstream
> continues to hold on to that position, then it might be beneficial to
> both Debian and the wider community if Debian leads a fork of systemd,
> implementing these requirements and wishes, seeking out other
> requirements and wishes that have been rejected or ignored and
> gathering a new development community around this fork in systemd.
> 

To answer the original poster's own question, what can he do?

He can stop writing these emails and start writing code (a fork of
systemd supporting kFreeBSD, to be specific)

As a second choice, if he believes in this cause so valiantly but
doesn't know how to code, he can sell his home and give the money to the
free software developer of his choosing and pay them to make an alternative.





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Re: Honestly, fork systemd

[Svante Signell]

On Sat, 2014-02-15 at 19:05 +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> 
> On 14/02/14 14:58, Aigars Mahinovs wrote:
> > On 14 February 2014 13:42, ChaosEsque Team  wrote:
> >> The systemd fans ban anyone who say fork-that to systemd.
> > 
> > Not respecting the communication culture of the project is a perfectly
> > reasonable reason for a ban, regardless of the opinion expressed by
> > the banned or held by the banners.
> > 
> >> What can we do?
> >> Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)

Maybe that is interesting too, any takers?

> To answer the original poster's own question, what can he do?
> 
> He can stop writing these emails and start writing code (a fork of
> systemd supporting kFreeBSD, to be specific)

I don't think forking systemd is a good choice, that software id doomed,
better to fork gnome components to make them usable with another init
system. There are a number of usable components of gnome, e.g.
evolution, I would like to still use it, without systemed, but that is
currently not possible :(



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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Steve Langasek]

On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 09:58:05AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
> have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with
> one input jack and one output jack and any application using it just
> has to find the sound card and output its audio signal.

If any configuration is required, that is a bug in pulseaudio.

-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/15/2014 08:42 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> If any configuration is required, that is a bug in pulseaudio.

According to that logic, half of the software in Debian is broken.

Adrian

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Russ Allbery]

Steve Langasek  writes:
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 09:58:05AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:

>> I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
>> have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with one
>> input jack and one output jack and any application using it just has to
>> find the sound card and output its audio signal.

> If any configuration is required, that is a bug in pulseaudio.

I'll agree with that.  Audio really should just work unless the hardware
configuration is particularly strange.

Now, the *severity* of the bug of course may depend on how many people are
affected, etc.

(FWIW, pulseaudio has always worked great out of the box for me with no
configuration required, but then so has every sound system on Linux in
about the past five years.  Before that, it was a mess, but a bit before
pulseaudio, around the time ALSA became the thing everyone was using, my
problems generally went away and haven't returned, even through a few
changes in how sound was implemented.)

-- 
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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/15/2014 08:59 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek  writes:
>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 09:58:05AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> 
>>> I think most people simply don't configure PulseAudio correctly. They
>>> have the assumption that sound cards are still simple devices with one
>>> input jack and one output jack and any application using it just has to
>>> find the sound card and output its audio signal.
> 
>> If any configuration is required, that is a bug in pulseaudio.
> 
> I'll agree with that.  Audio really should just work unless the hardware
> configuration is particularly strange.

So, if your computer has several sounds cards - which is the case when
you have both a sound card and HDMI audio - how is PulseAudio supposed
to know which sound card to use? This is in no way different to plain
ALSA.

FWIW, sound works in 99% of the cases right after a fresh install.
Problems like the one described by Christian usually occur on systems
which have been undergone several configuration changes and upgrades,
i.e. old systems.

Adrian

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Russ Allbery]

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz  writes:
> On 02/15/2014 08:59 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> I'll agree with that.  Audio really should just work unless the
>> hardware configuration is particularly strange.

> So, if your computer has several sounds cards - which is the case when
> you have both a sound card and HDMI audio - how is PulseAudio supposed
> to know which sound card to use? This is in no way different to plain
> ALSA.

I can think of several ways to handle that.  I don't know how many of them
PulseAudio already implements.  For example, if it's a common problem to
have the sound going through HDMI audio when people have a sound card,
maybe the default in that case should be to use the sound card rather than
HDMI.  Or (and I don't know if that capability is present) maybe it should
default to sending the sound to all cards.

All I'm saying, and all I think Steve is saying, is that audio not working
out of the box is some kind of bug.  That's fine -- software has bugs.  We
all know that.  It might be an important bug, it might be a normal bug, it
might be a wishlist bug, or it might be a wontfix bug, but something the
user reasonably expected to work didn't work, so that's a bug.

That doesn't mean ALSA didn't also have bugs.  Of course it did.  :)

> FWIW, sound works in 99% of the cases right after a fresh install.
> Problems like the one described by Christian usually occur on systems
> which have been undergone several configuration changes and upgrades,
> i.e. old systems.

Which would be a... wait for it... bug in our upgrade handling.  :)  But
again, I have no idea the severity.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

Russ Allbery:
> PulseAudio already implements.  For example, if it's a common problem to
> have the sound going through HDMI audio when people have a sound card,
> maybe the default in that case should be to use the sound card rather than
> HDMI.  Or (and I don't know if that capability is present) maybe it should
> default to sending the sound to all cards.
> 
Yes, PA can do that.

Shouldn't even be too difficult to implement.

I'll file a wishlist bug.
-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Steve Langasek]

On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 08:50:18PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 02/15/2014 08:42 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > If any configuration is required, that is a bug in pulseaudio.

> According to that logic, half of the software in Debian is broken.

There's a difference between "broken" and "buggy".  But it *is* the case
that we expect packages in Debian to be usable, out of the box, as soon as
they're installed.

Whenever someone says "I installed pulseaudio and my sound stopped working",
the right answer is *not* "here are some tools that let you reconfigure
pulseaudio".  The right answer is "let's figure out how to fix pulseaudio so
that this doesn't happen".

And to the extent that Debian users are unhappy with pulseaudio as a
default, it's because others have been trying to blame the user for the
problems instead of constructively engaging to *fix* pulseaudio.  All
software has bugs.  The difference is in how you handle them.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/15/2014 09:23 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Whenever someone says "I installed pulseaudio and my sound stopped working",
> the right answer is *not* "here are some tools that let you reconfigure
> pulseaudio".  The right answer is "let's figure out how to fix pulseaudio so
> that this doesn't happen".

The problem is that many people who complain about PulseAudio issues
are often prejudiced about it in the first place such that they aren't
actually interested in having the problem fixed but rather just want
to get rid of it and uninstall it. Trying to debug the problem in such
cases is very difficult.

> And to the extent that Debian users are unhappy with pulseaudio as a
> default, it's because others have been trying to blame the user for the
> problems instead of constructively engaging to *fix* pulseaudio.

I think the reservations are mutual. If your attention as a user is
"I'm too lazy to take a second to look into how PulseAudio actually
works and what box I have to check.", you can't expect us on the
other side to be happy to help as well.

Adrian

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Salvo Tomaselli]

In data sabato 15 febbraio 2014 21:52:24, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz ha 
scritto:

> The problem is that many people who complain about PulseAudio issues
> are often prejudiced about it 
Well I am now biased against pulseaudio. But let's look at the facts: it comes 
by default, in the last 3 desktop machines that I've installed, it prevented 
any audio to be heard.
Am I so unreasonable to think that since it comes by default, it should come 
with a working configuration as well?
And it's not a prejudice, it's a judice after repeated real life experience.



> actually interested in having the problem fixed but rather just want
> to get rid of it and uninstall it. Trying to debug the problem in such
> cases is very difficult.

Reporting bugs doesn't really help very much
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=702884

So please stop blaming it on users.

Cheers

-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/15/2014 10:12 PM, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> In data sabato 15 febbraio 2014 21:52:24, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz ha 
> scritto:
> 
>> The problem is that many people who complain about PulseAudio issues
>> are often prejudiced about it 
> Well I am now biased against pulseaudio. But let's look at the facts: it 
> comes 
> by default, in the last 3 desktop machines that I've installed, it prevented 
> any audio to be heard.

Meh, I don't want to start another flame war. It works fine for me and
for all users (~1000) at my Physics Department where we deploy Debian
Wheezy with PulseAudio enabled with people using all kinds of desktops
and window managers. The times when it didn't work were before Wheezy.

>> actually interested in having the problem fixed but rather just want
>> to get rid of it and uninstall it. Trying to debug the problem in such
>> cases is very difficult.
> 
> Reporting bugs doesn't really help very much
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=702884

Well, Anton couldn't reproduce the bug, so you probably didn't
provide enough information.

Again, from my experience with over 1000 users and around 200
machines running Wheezy with all kinds of desktop environments
and window managers, it works. And most of our users are by
no means computer experts.

But again, I don't want to argue.

Adrian

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Bug#739114: ITP: ruby-sanitize -- whitelist-based HTML sanitizer for Ruby

[Jonas Genannt]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Genannt 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

* Package name: ruby-sanitize
  Version : 2.1.0
  Upstream Author : Ryan Grove 
* URL : https://github.com/rgrove/sanitize/
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: Ruby
  Description : whitelist-based HTML sanitizer for Ruby

Sanitize is a whitelist-based HTML sanitizer. Given a list of acceptable
elements and attributes, Sanitize will remove all unacceptable HTML from a
string.
..
Using a simple configuration syntax, you can tell Sanitize to allow certain
elements, certain attributes within those elements, and even certain URL
protocols within attributes that contain URLs. Any HTML elements or attributes
that you don't explicitly allow will be removed.

For GitLab - maintained by Ruby PKG Extras

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Bug#739115: ITP: python-pies -- library for writing programs for both Python 2 and 3

[Per Andersson]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Per Andersson 

* Package name: python-pies
  Version : 2.6.0
  Upstream Author : Timothy Crosley 
* URL : https://github.com/timothycrosley/pies
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : library for writing programs for both Python 2 and 3

 Pies is a Python 2 and 3 compatibility layer with the philosophy that all
 code should be Python 3 code. Starting from this viewpoint means that
 when running on Python 3 pies adds virtually no overhead.
 .
 Instead of providing a bunch of custom methods (leading to Python code
 that looks out of place on any version) pies aims to backport as many
 of the Python 3 API calls, imports, and objects to Python 2 - relying
 on special syntax only when absolutely necessary.


This is a dependency for frosted, which I also filed an ITP for.

A similar package is python-six.

I plan to maintain it in collab-maint.


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Bug#739116: ITP: frosted -- a simple program which checks Python source files for errors

[Per Andersson]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Per Andersson 

* Package name: frosted
  Version : 1.3.3
  Upstream Author : Timothy Crosley 
* URL : https://github.com/timothycrosley/frosted
* License : Expat
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : a simple program which checks Python source files for errors

 Frosted is a fork of pyflakes (originally created by Phil Frost) that
 aims at more open contribution from the outside public, a smaller more
 maintainable code base, and a better Python checker for all. It
 currently cleanly supports Python 2.6 - 3.4 using pies to achieve this
 without ugly hacks and/or py2to3.

I use this and plan to maintain it in collab-maint.

It is a fork of pyflakes (which seems to have become a bit stale) and is
taken in by the python community.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/code-quality/2014-January/000212.html

Another similar package is pep8.


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

Salvo Tomaselli:
> 
> Reporting bugs doesn't really help very much
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=702884
> 
> So please stop blaming it on users.
> 
Umm, what? Looking at that bug, it was obvious from your first email that
you have a basic problem with pulse being installed, and that you aren't
really interested in helping find the cause of the problem.

That, by the way, would probably involve either running pavucontrol and
telling pulse to increase the volume and/or use your system's other audio
device, or telling your desktop environment to route audio through pulse
instead of directly talking to the ALSA hardware … but I digress.

Finally, if you set out with a hostile tone, don't be surprised if you get
less than exemplary communication back.

-- 
-- Matthias Urlichs


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Salvo Tomaselli]

> Meh, I don't want to start another flame war. It works fine for me and
> for all users (~1000) at my Physics Department where we deploy Debian
I do believe you

> Well, Anton couldn't reproduce the bug, so you probably didn't
> provide enough information.
I did offer to provide the information asked, he refused saying that he isn't 
an expert and told me to open a bug on pulseaudio (which is a very strange 
thing to say on a bug on pulseaudio).

> Again, from my experience with over 1000 users and around 200
> machines running Wheezy with all kinds of desktop environments
> and window managers, it works. And most of our users are by
> no means computer experts.
Well from my experience it doesn't work and opening bugs doesn't help.

Cheers

-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Salvo Tomaselli]

In data sabato 15 febbraio 2014 23:46:24, Matthias Urlichs ha scritto:
> Umm, what? Looking at that bug, it was obvious from your first email that
> you have a basic problem with pulse being installed, and that you aren't
> really interested in helping find the cause of the problem.
Hm.. Please let me copy and paste some passages from that bug-report:

I said: "If you are willing to help, I am willing to cooperate and send you 
configuration and details about my system."

To which I got this answer: "No, thanks. See my previous answer." (I think 
referring to the fact that he isn't an expert).

Ok the bug had a bit of attitude, but I did offer to cooperate and run tests 
and send configuration files/logs, the offer was turned down.

So I just went on with my life without pulseaudio. What else was I supposed to 
do?

> Finally, if you set out with a hostile tone, don't be surprised if you get
> less than exemplary communication back.
That is true. Keep in mind that the email was written after I had installed an 
IM client, and then after a while my media player had stopped working, and 
that had taken me a few hours to pinpoint. Not the most obvious correlation to 
find.

Cheers

-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/

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Bug#739130: ITP: ruby-twitter-stream -- Twitter realtime API client

[Jonas Genannt]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Genannt 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

* Package name: ruby-twitter-stream
  Version : 0.1.16
  Upstream Author : Vladimir Kolesnikov
* URL : http://github.com/voloko/twitter-stream
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: Ruby
  Description : Twitter realtime API client

Simple Ruby client library for twitter streaming API. Uses EventMachine for
connection handling. Adheres to twitter's reconnection guidline. JSON
format only.

For GitLab - maintained by Ruby PKG Extras

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Martin Eberhard Schauer]

The problem (insane pulseaudio defaults disabling audio output) has not been
debugged yet because there is an easy workaround: deinstall pulseaudio. 
There

seems to be little interest in investigating the issue.

Why not document the status quo somewhere (known issues in the release notes
or the Debian FAQ)?


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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Scott Leggett]

On 15/02/14 19:58, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> 
> So, in order to be able to properly configure PulseAudio, install
> "pavucontrol" or use the sound preferences in GNOME3 or MATE (with
> the package mate-media-pulse being installed).
> 

I'd like to take the opportunity to plug the "pasystray" package,
available in testing.

IMO it provides a friendlier interface to advanced pulse features than
pavucontrol.

-- 
Regards,
Scott Leggett.



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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 02/16/2014 12:39 AM, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> Hm.. Please let me copy and paste some passages from that bug-report:
> 
> I said: "If you are willing to help, I am willing to cooperate and send you 
> configuration and details about my system."
> 
> To which I got this answer: "No, thanks. See my previous answer." (I think 
> referring to the fact that he isn't an expert).

Well, I'm sorry but I would have probably reacted the same. You were not
reporting a bug, you were just ranting.

Did you really expect to get a reasonable reply to that?

> So I just went on with my life without pulseaudio. What else was I supposed 
> to 
> do?

How about writing a proper bug report without being so hostile?

>> Finally, if you set out with a hostile tone, don't be surprised if you get
>> less than exemplary communication back.
> That is true. Keep in mind that the email was written after I had installed 
> an 
> IM client, and then after a while my media player had stopped working, and 
> that had taken me a few hours to pinpoint. Not the most obvious correlation 
> to 
> find.

That might be an explanation but still not an excuse, sorry.

Adrian

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Re: pulseaudio related problems....

[Salvo Tomaselli]

> Well, I'm sorry but I would have probably reacted the same. You were not
> reporting a bug, you were just ranting.
I am glad I don't need to use any of your packages then :-)

> How about writing a proper bug report without being so hostile?
How would another bug help, when my offer to send further informations (and 
implicit request to know what information to send) is rejected?
And why would I intentionally open a duplicate bug?

Cheers
-- 
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di
senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Schlacta, Christ]

I'd like to chime in on this whole build thing.
I've been trying to get pbuilder working for a few days now, on a package
from backports. It should be a simple task, but I need a minor modification
in the form of an extra repository for dependencies.

It's been incredibly difficult to get the package built.

The process needs some refinement and some minor enhancements at least.
I'll be documenting my process soon enough for others to be able to have a
reasonable account of the process as it stands now.
On Feb 15, 2014 8:15 AM, "Philipp Kern"  wrote:

> On 2014-02-15 15:34, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2014, Philipp Kern wrote:
>>
>>> That's why I was careful to publish the address nowhere. We do some
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, that cat is out of the bag, now.  Whether it will get
>> spammed
>> or attacked, I don't know.
>>
>> However, it is not like we ever could trust the logs anyway for any
>> security
>> purposes, as they are not signed by the same key that signed the
>> respective
>> changes file for the upload.  Currently, they're useful for debug
>> purposes,
>> and that's it (which is fine).
>>
>
> Yeah, they could be, if sbuild is extended to sign the logs. That said, we
> do trust our mail-in. We can trust the received headers to some degree (for
> timestamps and where the mail came from), but we cannot rule out on-disk
> tampering.
>
> Kind regards
> Philipp Kern
>
>
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Re: Bug#738839: ITP: mps -- Poor Man's Spotify - Search and stream music

[Tiago Bortoletto Vaz]

On Fri, 2014-02-14 at 18:21 +0100, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: 
> On 13/02/2014 21:25, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:38:55PM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Holger Levsen  
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> On Donnerstag, 13. Februar 2014, Jakub Wilk wrote:
>  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poor_man%27s
> >>>
> >>> I knew that :) I still don't think it's appropriate nor helpful to 
> >>> describe
> >>> software with these attributes. (Hints: free software is always free as in
> >>> gratis, and men, well, men^wmeh.)
> >>
> >> Packager is using upstream description. From their website,
> >> https://github.com/np1/mps
> >>
> >>Poor Man's Spotify - Search and stream music
> >>
> >> In English, the phrase doesn't carry a negative connotation. It is a
> >> clever way to replace something expensive with something less
> >> expensive.
> > 
> > It doesn't mean we should use gender-specific words in package
> > descriptions. Also, there're too many non-english people in Debian
> > world, so avoiding such expressions we avoid annoying emails coming from
> > annoying non-english people like me.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> That's why there is a project to translate the package descriptions.
> Poor man's something is correct English, is a fixed expression and
> should not be changed (even if gender specific).

Sorry, but I don't see both being correct in English and a being fixed
expression as good reason to keep this. And I'm happy it was changed in
time, thanks Zlatan btw.

Regards,


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Re: when will we finally throw away binary uploads (Re: Please upgrade your build environment when you are affected by transition

[Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez]

On 13/02/14 22:10, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote:
> On 13 February 2014 16:13, Holger Levsen  wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On Donnerstag, 13. Februar 2014, Ondřej Surý wrote:
>>> >> this is just a pledge to you all fellow debian developers to update your
>>> >> build environment before you build a package.
>> >
>> > I want all binary packages to be rebuild on *.debian.org hosts. Everything
>> > else is just an ugly workaround.
>> >
> All that's needed, I guess, is for someone to write a patch to dak /
> wanna-build ... and schedule _all.deb builds on amd64 ?
> Or if arch-restricted package, on one of the arches it will build on?


I guess this could be an interesting project to do as part of the GSoC,
if someone is willing to mentor it.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg1.html



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Re: Proposed mass bug filing: Removal of automake1.4, automake1.9, automake1.10 and automake1.11

[Eric Dorland]

All of the bugs have been filed. Just under half have been
fixed. Almost all the rest have tested patches. I'm going to start
uploading 10-day delayed NMUs to try to close these out.

If you have an issue with this please speak now or forever hold your
peace.

* Eric Dorland (e...@debian.org) wrote:
> Hearing no objections to this plan I'm going to get started with these
> bug filings. I'm going to leave automake1.11 alone in the archive for
> now, as there seems to be enough compatibility problems between it and
> later versions that we probably need to give it more time. But
> automake1.4, automake1.9 and automake1.10 are on the chopping block.
> 
> Attached is an updated list packages and maintainers that have build
> dependencies on automake1.4, automake1.9 and automake1.10. I'll be
> filing bugs with the usertag "automake-cleanup-2013".
> 
> * Eric Dorland (e...@debian.org) wrote:
> > Hello folks,
> > 
> > We've accumulated a lot of automake packages in main and since we're
> > at the very beginning of the jessie release cycle I'd like to propose
> > a mass bug filing to remove all the current automake packages in
> > unstable (automake1.13 is in the NEW queue). Automake 1.4 in
> > particular is very old at this point and is unsupported.
> > 
> > Automake is moving to a more rational versioning scheme so new,
> > non-backwards compatible automake packages should be far less common
> > now. See
> > "New versioning scheme for Automake." here:
> > http://gnu-automake.7480.n7.nabble.com/GNU-Automake-1-13-2-released-td20448.html.
> >  So
> > hopefully we can release jessie with one (or maybe two) automake
> > package.
> > 
> > Attached are the package list generated from the command below (and
> > that list run through dd-list): 
> > 
> > grep-dctrl -n -s Package \( -F Build-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep -w
> > 'automake1.4|automake1.9|automake1.10|automake1.11' \) --and \( --not
> > -F Build-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep -w 'automake' \) 
> > /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_source_Sources
> 

> agg
> am-utils
> amule-emc
> anon-proxy
> avr-libc
> baycomusb
> black-box
> cairo-ocaml
> ccd2iso
> cddlib
> cegui-mk2
> centerim
> compiz-fusion-bcop
> console-data
> cpqarrayd
> curl
> cwiid
> dapl
> ecl
> enigma
> ethtool
> fam
> fenix-plugins
> ffrenzy
> freefem3d
> freesci
> g15daemon
> g15mpd
> gcc-3.3
> gcc-4.4
> gcc-avr
> gcc-h8300-hms
> gdc-4.4
> gettext-lint
> gmerlin-avdecoder
> gnat-4.4
> gnuift
> google-perftools
> gpsdrive
> grub
> gsmc
> guile-gnome-platform
> gwaterfall
> gwhere
> hercules
> hfsplus
> httrack
> hunspell
> icecast2
> ices2
> iulib
> jack-tools
> katoob
> lam
> libavg
> libcsoap
> libg15render
> libgpelaunch
> libgpeschedule
> libgpevtype
> libibcm
> libiodbc2
> libm4ri
> libmodplug
> libnss-ldap
> libpam-ccreds
> libsigc++-2.0
> libtododb
> linbox
> llvm-toolchain-3.2
> llvm-toolchain-3.3
> llvm-toolchain-snapshot
> ltris
> lustre
> ming
> mp4h
> multiget
> muttprint
> necpp
> netdiscover
> nullmailer
> ocropus
> openhpi
> openmpi
> par2cmdline
> poker-engine
> read-edid
> refdb
> rtpproxy
> sawfish
> scli
> shadow
> siege
> smartmontools
> sparsehash
> subtitleeditor
> syrep
> t-code
> tcpstat
> tidy
> uim
> util-vserver
> whitedune
> wmforkplop
> wmxmms2
> xosd
> zabbix

> Alastair McKinstry 
>console-data
> 
> Alessandro Ghedini 
>curl
> 
> Alessio Treglia 
>gmerlin-avdecoder (U)
> 
> Andrea Veri 
>agg
> 
> Andreas Putzo 
>gpsdrive (U)
> 
> Andreas Rottmann 
>guile-gnome-platform
> 
> Anibal Avelar 
>centerim
> 
> Anibal Monsalve Salazar 
>ethtool
> 
> Anton Zinoviev 
>console-data (U)
> 
> Arnout Engelen 
>jack-tools (U)
> 
> Arthur Loiret 
>gcc-4.4 (U)
>gdc-4.4 (U)
> 
> Asheesh Laroia 
>ccd2iso
> 
> Athena Capital Research 
>sparsehash
> 
> Aurélien GÉRÔME 
>hfsplus
> 
> Axel Beckert 
>mp4h (U)
> 
> Barry deFreese 
>fenix-plugins (U)
> 
> Bart Martens 
>par2cmdline
> 
> Bas Zoetekouw 
>freesci
> 
> Ben Hutchings 
>ethtool (U)
> 
> Benoit Mortier 
>dapl (U)
>libibcm (U)
> 
> Bryan Sutula 
>openhpi
> 
> Camm Maguire 
>lam
> 
> Chris Halls 
>hunspell (U)
> 
> Christian Perrier 
>console-data (U)
>shadow (U)
> 
> Christoph Egger 
>ecl (U)
> 
> Christoph Haas 
>zabbix
> 
> Christophe Prud'homme 
>freefem3d (U)
> 
> Chuan-kai Lin 
>fam
> 
> Colin Tuckley 
>ltris
> 
> Colin Watson 
>grub (U)
> 
> Cédric Boutillier 
>libm4ri (U)
> 
> Daigo Moriwaki 
>google-perftools
> 
> Daniel Burrows 
>libsigc++-2.0
> 
> David Spreen 
>anon-proxy
> 
> Debian Common Lisp Team 
>ecl
> 
> Debian Games Team 
>fenix-plugins
> 
> Debian GCC Maintainers 
>gcc-4.4
>gdc-4.4
>gnat-4.4
> 
> Debian GIS Project 
>gpsdrive
> 
> Debian GPE team 
>libgpelaunch (U)
>libgpeschedule (U)
>libgpevtype (U)
>libtododb (U)
> 
> Debian Hamradio Maintainers 
>baycomusb
>gsmc
> 
> Debian LibreOffice Mainta