Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Mike Hommey]

On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 09:40:31PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:54:56 -0600, Jon Marler
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  
> 
> > I have a question ... How do I keep my Debian maintainer status if I
> > miss the vote?  Is there a website I can log in to "raise my hand"
> > and keep from being booted out?
> 
> While this is a legitimate question, but how likely is it that
>  people can "miss" the vote? debian-devel-announce is the one list
>  people are supposed to be subscribed to, and for a period of 9 weeks
>  there are (almost) weekly announcements about the forthcoming vote
>  (nominations get 4 mails, platforms get at least one, debates a few,
>  and then there are 4 ballot mails).
> 
> There is a three week period where ballots can be cast.

Three week vacation periods are not uncommon.

Mike


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Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Re: Who would be the right person or committe to talk to at Debian about

[Christian Perrier]

> > Who would be the right person or committe to talk to at Debian about
> > making fonts for Debian and or other Linux distros?

I think that joining the pkg-fonts-devel team mailing list is the
first step to go, certainly.

We are about a dozen of people who mostly maintain a few font
packages. The package are not precisely "team-maintained" but more
maintained by one of the individuals in the team, but the packages
source is in the team's SVN, which allows for peer review and some
kind of collaborative maintenance (and some take over in case the
regular maintainer happens to be missing).

We have 3 lists:
-devel for discussion
-bugs for bugs about font packages (we subscribe the packages PTS to
the list)
-commits for SVN commits

To join, you can subscribe to
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-fonts-devel


Of course, also, all requirements for the creation of Debian packages
apply also to font packages. So, creating one requires that the
relevant person learns about Debian packaging. Of course, other team
members may help in that matter.

> However, I am copying this reply to the debian-devel mailing
>  lists, where other developers, better versed than I on font issues,
>  can chime in. I am also copying this to the font development team,
>  who are probably the best fit.


Thanks, Manoj, that was certainly the Right Thing to do..:)




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Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[Loïc Minier]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Loic Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hi,

 I intend to package libcm:

* Package name: libcm
  Version : x.y.z
  Upstream Author : Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.example.org/
* License : LGPL, GPL, BSD
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Support code for compositing managers

 Compositing managers such as xcompmgr and compiz allow X clients to render
 to an off-screen buffer and then have their contents composited onto the
 screen. This process allows arbitrary transformations of the window contents,
 such as translucency, magnification or changes in shape.
 .
 This library provides support functions for compositing managers.

 I intend to start from the packaging found in Ubuntu.

   Bye,
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[Loïc Minier]

 Hmm, sorry for these:

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Loïc Minier wrote:
>   Version : x.y.z

 0.1.1

>   Upstream Author : Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 Mostly Søren Sandmann for Red Hat.

> * URL : http://www.example.org/

 No upstream website I know of.

> * License : LGPL, GPL, BSD

 (This is correct.)

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Bart Martens]

On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 09:22 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 09:40:31PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:54:56 -0600, Jon Marler
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  
> > 
> > > I have a question ... How do I keep my Debian maintainer status if I
> > > miss the vote?  Is there a website I can log in to "raise my hand"
> > > and keep from being booted out?
> > 
> > While this is a legitimate question, but how likely is it that
> >  people can "miss" the vote? debian-devel-announce is the one list
> >  people are supposed to be subscribed to, and for a period of 9 weeks
> >  there are (almost) weekly announcements about the forthcoming vote
> >  (nominations get 4 mails, platforms get at least one, debates a few,
> >  and then there are 4 ballot mails).
> > 
> > There is a three week period where ballots can be cast.
> 
> Three week vacation periods are not uncommon.

Of course, and I'm sure everyone knows that.  When I read the
announcement again, then I see no reason to panic. :)

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/02/msg8.html

An example, how I understand the announcement:
- a DD skips the coming DPL vote,
- this DD forgets to register "on vacation",
- this DD goes on vacation for 4 weeks,
- DAM sends a WaT e-mail,
- DAM waits a reasonable time for a reply :)
- the DD is back from vacation,
- the DD has missed the WaT e-mail,
- DAM decides to set the account to "emeritus state",
- e-mail still works for 12 months,
- the DD notices the reduced permissions with next package update,
- the DD contacts DAM, "huuuh my account is locked!"
- DAM restores the full account, "hi you're back, how was vacation"

This seems very reasonable.  Or have I misunderstood something?



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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Mark Purcell]

On Saturday 10 February 2007 01:34, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Selection of the people included in those runs will be done in a way
> that we avoid sending out such mails to active people. As a good start
> we will take the upcoming DPL vote as an input source, everyone who doesn't
> vote this year will be included in the first run.
>
>  * Please note that you can vote without expressing an opinion! *

Joerg,

Whilst you might be able to vote without expressing an opinion,
we already have a documented MIA process.

http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa

I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
approach.

By all means those who don't vote, might be candidates, but please
check the MIA tool to see if people are active before approaching them. 

I'm sure a lot of developers who don't vote are shown to be very active when 
measured against other metrics.

Remember voting is a benefit of membership not compulsory. Developers should 
not be singled out because they choose the freedom not to vote.

Mark 


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Re: update on binary upload restrictions

[Bill Allombert]

Dear developers,

[My post involve only technical issues which are orthogonal to the
current GR which addresses the non-technical issues.]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 01:23:35AM +, James Troup wrote:
>Why restrictions on binary uploads?
>===
> 
> So there are several reasons why these restrictions have been put in
> place:
> 
> (o) reproducibility
> 
> It's vitally important that packages in our archive can be rebuilt on
> our buildds and not require a custom environment or source
> modifications or other special treatment.  When they can't, scaled
> across as many packages and architectures as we have, it makes the job
> of the security team nearly impossible.

Fortunately, db.debian.org includes the sbuild package which allow to
perform build in the same way as buildd do.

Aurelien Jarno used sbuild. Where are the evidence any of those builds were
broken ?

> The best (and IMO, only) pragmatic way of doing this is to actually
> have built them on a real buildd.

Unfortunately the set of buildd machines tend to change during a stable
release life. Thus we need more garanties than "it build on _that_
buildd". In the past this has been an issue when s390 buildd has been
upgraded to s390x. So it is smarter to spread builds over a larger set
of hardware to be able to anticipate such issues before a release.

> (o) logging 
> 
> The build logs at buildd.debian.org are invaluable in trying to debug
> problematic builds.  Byhand builds and other unofficial builds often
> don't send an associated log to buildd.debian.org.

Building with sbuild automatically send a log to be published on
. See for example on I posted:

 


(I am the developer who proposed a patch for debuild to create the .build
log file automatically, so I certainly know about the value of logfiles.
I would be quite happy if buildd.debian.org allowed to upload them).

> (o) build effort coordination
> 
> There's a reason the buildd suite is called 'wanna-build'.  The core
> of it, both when Roman first wrote it all those years ago and now, is
> the sensible and efficient coordination of builds amongst multiple
> build daemons.  Having a random additional build daemon that's not
> part of the 'wanna-build' system breaks this and all the advantages it
> brings.

Actually there is an easy way to avoid breaking wanna-build:
The wanna-build state is available e.g. from buildd.net:



etc. 

So it is quite simple to check if a package is marked as Building in
wanna-build before building and uploading it. Personnally I also
send an email to debian-68k and a buildd admin register my build.

> (o) emulated/cross-compiled buildd-ing considered potentially harmful

The only way to know is to try, which I did. 

I never hit any issue with my distcc/crosscc cross-compiling setup.
With aranym, I hit some issues with the FPU emulation but they did not
affect the packages: Octave build fine but the test-suite displayed
problem inside the emulator, however the test-suite run on the same
binary on real hardware did not, so the package was correctly built.

Whether they should be used is the choice and responsibility of the porters,
a duty some buildd admins have relinquished at Vancouver.

So in summary it is possible to do broken binary-only upload as well as
broken sourceful upload, but it is possible to do correct sourceful
upload as well as correct binary-only upload. The solution in both cases
is to draft guidelines and policies instead of disabling them.

Cheers, 
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large blue swirl here. 


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Re: Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/11/07 03:39, Loïc Minier wrote:
[snip]
>> * URL : http://www.example.org/
> 
>  No upstream website I know of.

FTP site?

Where do you get the source from?

>> * License : LGPL, GPL, BSD
> 
>  (This is correct.)

It's tri-licensed?


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Joerg Jaspert]

On 10927 March 1977, Bart Martens wrote:

>> Three week vacation periods are not uncommon.
> Of course, and I'm sure everyone knows that.  When I read the
> announcement again, then I see no reason to panic. :)
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/02/msg8.html

> An example, how I understand the announcement:
> - a DD skips the coming DPL vote,
> - this DD forgets to register "on vacation",
> - this DD goes on vacation for 4 weeks,
> - DAM sends a WaT e-mail,
> - DAM waits a reasonable time for a reply :)

That will be one or two months, so a very reasonable time.

> - the DD is back from vacation,
> - the DD has missed the WaT e-mail,
> - DAM decides to set the account to "emeritus state",

No reply is disabled state.

> - e-mail still works for 12 months,

Its 6, same as emeritus.

> - the DD notices the reduced permissions with next package update,
> - the DD contacts DAM, "huuuh my account is locked!"
> - DAM restores the full account, "hi you're back, how was vacation"

Yes, basically. So to get your account in a state where you can only
come back by full NM you need to

  - "miss" the vote, which (as Manoj described) should generate enough
noise to not miss it[1],
  - miss the WaT mail. Even if you are on vacation for a long time, I
guess it wont be 3 weeks (vote) plus one or two months (WaT mail
timeout), and dont you read your backlog when you come back?
  - miss the 12 months of account disabled before you lose the ability
to come back without full NM.

This sums up to 13 - 14 months of do-nothing to completly lose the
account. That should be *plenty* of time to send one mail...

> This seems very reasonable.  Or have I misunderstood something?

[1] well, except you have like long vacation right now. Or unplanned
hospital stay or something like this, which is the reason disabled
can get back within the 12 month of deactivation...

-- 
bye Joerg
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there
when it happens.
  -- Woody Allen


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Lucas Nussbaum]

On 11/02/07 at 10:29 +, Mark Purcell wrote:
> Whilst you might be able to vote without expressing an opinion,
> we already have a documented MIA process.
> 
> http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa
> 
> I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
> approach.
> 
> By all means those who don't vote, might be candidates, but please
> check the MIA tool to see if people are active before approaching them. 

I totally agree. If I were forced to reduce my involvement in Debian, I
would probably start by losing interest in "politics", since I could
easily trust other, better-informed DD, to make better choices than I
would do. That wouldn't hurt the Debian project, or at least much less
than poorly maintaining my packages.

Maybe the time before the DPL election could be use to find out how data
from MIA could also be used in this process ?
-- 
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |


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Bug#410510: ITP: et131x -- Source for et131x Ethernet Controller driver from Agere Systems

[Miguel Gea Milvaques]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Miguel Gea Milvaques <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: et131x
  Version : 1.2.2
  Upstream Author : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/et131x/
* License : BSD liki
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Source for et131x Ethernet Controller driver from Agere 
Systems

 This package provides the source code for the et131x kernel modules.
 The et131x package is also required in order to make use of these
 modules. Kernel source or headers are required to compile these
 modules.
 .
 This works with Agere Systems ET-131x PCI-E Ethernet Controller.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-amd64
Locale: LANG=ca_ES.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=ca_ES.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 12:19:34PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> On 11/02/07 at 10:29 +, Mark Purcell wrote:
> > Whilst you might be able to vote without expressing an opinion,
> > we already have a documented MIA process.
> > 
> > http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa
> > 
> > I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
> > approach.
> > 
> > By all means those who don't vote, might be candidates, but please
> > check the MIA tool to see if people are active before approaching them. 
> 
> I totally agree. If I were forced to reduce my involvement in Debian, I
> would probably start by losing interest in "politics", since I could
> easily trust other, better-informed DD, to make better choices than I
> would do. That wouldn't hurt the Debian project, or at least much less
> than poorly maintaining my packages.
> 
> Maybe the time before the DPL election could be use to find out how data
> from MIA could also be used in this process ?

  Then you'll get the WaT mail and have a chance to pong. AFAIU this is
a criterium to know who to send a WaT mail to, not to force people in
MIA.
-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Moritz Muehlenhoff]

Jon Marler wrote:
> I have a question ... How do I keep my Debian maintainer status if I
> miss the vote?

A more relevant case are probably people, who don't care about the
annual time-drain aka DPL election.

Cheers,
Moritz


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 12:19:34PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> I totally agree. If I were forced to reduce my involvement in Debian, I
> would probably start by losing interest in "politics", since I could
> easily trust other, better-informed DD, to make better choices than I
> would do. That wouldn't hurt the Debian project, or at least much less
> than poorly maintaining my packages.

I agree on the low-risk for the project, but a DD not interested in
Debian "politics" has no need to be a DD. If it's just a matter of
technical work then sponsorship would be enough.  I consider Debian
"politics" as a relevant part of my being a DD and I personally feel it
as a duty to be informed on it, nothing different that being a citizen
of my country after all (no, you're right, Italian politics has been
much worst than Debian's in the past years :-)

Note that with being informed of course I don't mean following
thoroughly a significant amount of mailing list, but the bare minimum of
-vote archives just before voting is not requiring that much.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/
(15:56:48)  Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the
(15:57:15)  Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Joerg Jaspert]

On 10927 March 1977, Mark Purcell wrote:

> On Saturday 10 February 2007 01:34, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>> Selection of the people included in those runs will be done in a way
>> that we avoid sending out such mails to active people. As a good start
>> we will take the upcoming DPL vote as an input source, everyone who doesn't
>> vote this year will be included in the first run.
>>
>>  * Please note that you can vote without expressing an opinion! *
> Whilst you might be able to vote without expressing an opinion,
> we already have a documented MIA process.
> http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa

If you read my mail you will find out that We know this and its planned
to take that as source for future/additional runs.

> I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
> approach.

Now, explain where the problem in my approach is? The worst case that
can happen to someone who does not vote is that he replies to one
mail. Its not as if not voting means immediate account deactivation...


-- 
bye Joerg
 anyone from the MIA team around? tbm?
 sounds nice. how long do you have to be MIA to get into that team? :)
 you need to have a pgp key, I suppose. and no gpg one, and only a bo box
 yes, but it must be expired


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UDP code

[J HU]

Hi!

I'm working on a communication using UDP sockets and I would like to get the 
source code to know exactly what it does and make some proves.


Can anyone tell me where o how I can get the sorce code of the UDP?... now I 
just include the  but I like to see the functions.


Thanks in advance

_
Horóscopo, tarot, numerología... Escucha lo que te dicen los astros. 
http://astrocentro.msn.es/



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Re: UDP code

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 06:11:40PM +, J HU wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm working on a communication using UDP sockets and I would like to get 
> the source code to know exactly what it does and make some proves.
> 
> Can anyone tell me where o how I can get the sorce code of the UDP?... now 
> I just include the  but I like to see the functions.
> 
Well, UDP is not a program, it is a protocol.  The relevant RFC (768)
can be found here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768

Beyond that, you might look at the source to glibc to see how it is
implemented.  You can do that my running 'apt-get source glibc' (without
the quotes).

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: UDP code

[Hendrik Sattler]

Am Sonntag 11 Februar 2007 19:11 schrieb J HU:
> I'm working on a communication using UDP sockets and I would like to get
> the source code to know exactly what it does and make some proves.

UDP is not defined by some source code but by its RFC documents.

> Can anyone tell me where o how I can get the sorce code of the UDP?... now
> I just include the  but I like to see the functions.

The specific implementation of UDP in Linux can be found in...well... the 
linux source code, namely linux-source-2.6.18

HS


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Re: Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[Lo?c Minier]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> * URL : http://www.example.org/
> >  No upstream website I know of.
> FTP site?
> Where do you get the source from?

 ftp.gnome.org, but not worth mentionning in the package description;
 it's mentionned in the copyright of course.  I imagine people reading
 ITPs are curious of homepages, not of where to get the tarball from.

> >> * License : LGPL, GPL, BSD
> >  (This is correct.)
> It's tri-licensed?

 No, it's a mixture.

-- 
Lo?c Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: RFC: use readable $(cmd) syntax instead of unreadable `cmd`

[Steve Greenland]

On 09-Feb-07, 15:13 (CST), "John H. Robinson, IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> The only problem I see with $() is that older /bin/sh (SunOS) does not
> support $(), but it does support ``.
> 
> When I make a /bin/sh, I want it able to be run on a /bin/sh, even if
> that /bin/sh is on SunOS.

Then you have a lot more problems than `` vs $(). Debian's (and pretty
much everybody elses) /bin/sh is POSIX, and allows any valid POSIX
construct. Solaris's /bin/sh is ancient Bourne shell, and doesn't
support a whole lot of stuff in common use.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net


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Bug#410556: ITP: openmsx-debugger -- graphical debugger for openMSX

[Joost Yervante Damad]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Joost Yervante Damad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: openmsx-debugger
  Version : 0.1.0
  Upstream Author : Edwin Velds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://openmsx.org/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : Graphical debugger for openMSX

The openMSX debugger is a separate program that interfaces with
openMSX and controls its debugger from within a graphical user
interface.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-amd64
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: RFC: use readable $(cmd) syntax instead of unreadable `cmd`

[Wesley J. Landaker]

On Friday 09 February 2007 11:11, Jari Aalto wrote:
> I have reported bugs against backtick and suggested to change to use
> the more readable alternative. The result was surprising. To quote
> one message (bug closed reasoning):
>
>  "If your development environment cannot display ` differently than '
> , you need to get a new one."
>
> I'm askinf if it is ok to to reopen such bugs based of better QA
> aspects. Possibly by providing patches if the maintainer is busy
> elsewhere to handle such a "minor issue" from his perspective.

IMHO:

I would be happy to see bugs against my own packages that *clearly* 
increased usability and readability of code, as long as they included 
tested, working, patches.

But a bug that asks to change coding style just for the sake of style or 
preference of someone who isn't even working on the software at all 
wouldn't be as welcome.

-- 
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Wesley J. Landaker]

On Sunday 11 February 2007 03:57, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>   - miss the WaT mail. Even if you are on vacation for a long time, I
> guess it wont be 3 weeks (vote) plus one or two months (WaT mail
> timeout), and dont you read your backlog when you come back?

What about if the WaT mail is rejected (e.g. as spam) for some reason? 
Perhaps unlikely, but just in case it would be nice if the WaT status was 
available somewhere online (e.g. perhaps under db.debian.org).

-- 
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Handling of /usr/share/locale for package name changes

[Loïc Minier]

Hi there,

 Some shared libraries have gettext translations below /usr/share/locale
 with the source package name as textdomain.  When such a shared lib
 changes SONAME, how are you handling it?

 1) check all strings to see whether there are only additions and no
 incompatible changes, and add a Replace: $oldpackage to $newpackage

 2) don't really check, add a replace, and cross your finger that no
 format string such as "%s: %s" was changed incompatibly (to "%s: %s
 %s" :-)

 3) patch $newpackage to use a different textdomain

 The problem I have with 3) is that it might introduce some
 incompatibilities; for example it would break the approach used in the
 Ubuntu "language packs" which I think rely on the name of the .mo files
 to work.  I'm not sure to what extent the translations are part of the
 ABI of the library.

   Bye,
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: RFC: use readable $(cmd) syntax instead of unreadable `cmd`

[Russ Allbery]

Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "John H. Robinson, IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> The only problem I see with $() is that older /bin/sh (SunOS) does not
>> support $(), but it does support ``.
>> 
>> When I make a /bin/sh, I want it able to be run on a /bin/sh, even if
>> that /bin/sh is on SunOS.

> Then you have a lot more problems than `` vs $(). Debian's (and pretty
> much everybody elses) /bin/sh is POSIX, and allows any valid POSIX
> construct. Solaris's /bin/sh is ancient Bourne shell, and doesn't
> support a whole lot of stuff in common use.

Yup.  You get very used to writing in the restricted common subset when
you have software that has to work on Solaris /bin/sh, but remembering
what's allowed and what isn't is complex enough that it's a lot easier to
write *all* your shell scripts in that restricted common subset and be
sure.

I get nervous when I even use shell functions.  :)

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/11/07 12:58, =?//TRANSLIT?Q?Lo=EFc?= Minier wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Ron Johnson wrote:
 * URL : http://www.example.org/
>>>  No upstream website I know of.
>> FTP site?
>> Where do you get the source from?
> 
>  ftp.gnome.org, but not worth mentionning in the package description;
>  it's mentionned in the copyright of course.  I imagine people reading
>  ITPs are curious of homepages, not of where to get the tarball from.
> 
 * License : LGPL, GPL, BSD
>>>  (This is correct.)
>> It's tri-licensed?
> 
>  No, it's a mixture.

I smell a long thread on -legal.
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Re: Bug#410502: ITP: libcm -- Support code for compositing managers

[David Weinehall]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 01:50:39PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/11/07 12:58, =?//TRANSLIT?Q?Lo=EFc?= Minier wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 11, 2007, Ron Johnson wrote:
>  * URL : http://www.example.org/
> >>>  No upstream website I know of.
> >> FTP site?
> >> Where do you get the source from?
> > 
> >  ftp.gnome.org, but not worth mentionning in the package description;
> >  it's mentionned in the copyright of course.  I imagine people reading
> >  ITPs are curious of homepages, not of where to get the tarball from.
> > 
>  * License : LGPL, GPL, BSD
> >>>  (This is correct.)
> >> It's tri-licensed?
> > 
> >  No, it's a mixture.
> 
> I smell a long thread on -legal.

Why?  All these licenses are compatible.  Depending on what the GPL-only
code is used for, the resulting library will either be GPL or LGPL.
Finding out which should be quite simple.


Regards: David
-- 
 /) David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /) Rime on my window   (\
//  ~   //  Diamond-white roses of fire //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Beautiful hoar-frost   (/


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Joe Smith]

"Joerg Jaspert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On 10927 March 1977, Mark Purcell wrote:


On Saturday 10 February 2007 01:34, Joerg Jaspert wrote:

Selection of the people included in those runs will be done in a way
that we avoid sending out such mails to active people. As a good start
we will take the upcoming DPL vote as an input source, everyone who 
doesn't

vote this year will be included in the first run.

 * Please note that you can vote without expressing an opinion! *

Whilst you might be able to vote without expressing an opinion,
we already have a documented MIA process.
http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa


If you read my mail you will find out that We know this and its planned
to take that as source for future/additional runs.


I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
approach.


Now, explain where the problem in my approach is? The worst case that
can happen to someone who does not vote is that he replies to one
mail. Its not as if not voting means immediate account deactivation...



I would hope that there would be a grace period after deactivation, where a 
person who misses the WaT mail, and then later has his/her account disabled 
can quickly speak up and say they are still here, and be re-enabled without 
having to go through any sort of NM process. 




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Re: Handling of /usr/share/locale for package name changes

[Steve Langasek]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 08:23:29PM +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
>  Some shared libraries have gettext translations below /usr/share/locale
>  with the source package name as textdomain.  When such a shared lib
>  changes SONAME, how are you handling it?

>  1) check all strings to see whether there are only additions and no
>  incompatible changes, and add a Replace: $oldpackage to $newpackage

>  2) don't really check, add a replace, and cross your finger that no
>  format string such as "%s: %s" was changed incompatibly (to "%s: %s
>  %s" :-)

FWIW, this would not result in a format string vulnerability in gettext,
because the change to the source format string would also invalidate the
translation lookup, so there's simply no risk of this pulling in a wrong
format string unless there's a bug in the .po file itself.

>  3) patch $newpackage to use a different textdomain

>  The problem I have with 3) is that it might introduce some
>  incompatibilities; for example it would break the approach used in the
>  Ubuntu "language packs" which I think rely on the name of the .mo files
>  to work.  I'm not sure to what extent the translations are part of the
>  ABI of the library.

Well, the translations really should not be part of the ABI of the library;
libraries shouldn't be engaging in direct interaction with the user, so the
use case for localization of libraries is really limited to interfaces such
as strerror() which will localize numeric codes for you.

Not sure how that helps you pick a solution from the above, though.

Cheers,
-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:12:54 -0700, Wesley J Landaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On Sunday 11 February 2007 03:57, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>> - miss the WaT mail. Even if you are on vacation for a long time, I
>> guess it wont be 3 weeks (vote) plus one or two months (WaT mail
>> timeout), and dont you read your backlog when you come back?

> What about if the WaT mail is rejected (e.g. as spam) for some
> reason?

Actions have consequences. If you missed the vote, _and_ your
 Spam filter rejects  mail, you have to suffer the minor inconvenience
 of having your upload privileges suspended, noticing it, and asking
 for the situation to be reverted.

> Perhaps unlikely, but just in case it would be nice if the WaT
> status was available somewhere online (e.g. perhaps under
> db.debian.org).

Well, if some one puts in the effort to code that ... and
 maintain the status. I am pretty sure that the disabled keyring would
 be made available, and writing up a simple update a web page orupdate
 ldap script is simple enough, given a keyring.

Heck, this would be just the right RoR learning project.  We
 just need people with an itch to scratch, and willing to put in the
 work.

manoj
-- 
Vermouth always makes me brilliant unless it makes me
idiotic. E.F. Benson
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:42:47 -0500, Joe Smith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  

> I would hope that there would be a grace period after deactivation,

I suggest you read the original mail before participating in
 the discussion.

> where a person who misses the WaT mail, and then later has his/her
> account disabled can quickly speak up and say they are still here,
> and be re-enabled without having to go through any sort of NM
> process.

Now, while having a grqace period sounds like a good idea,
 this appeal is couched in terms that seem (to me, at least) shrouded
 in fear of _any_ NM processing. Why is that? I mean, getting ones
 status reverted is an inconvenience, but surely an active DD should
 not be afraid of passing something we ask of every new developer?

manoj
-- 
Make a wish, it might come true.
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Mike Hommey]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 03:35:27PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:42:47 -0500, Joe Smith
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:  
> 
> > I would hope that there would be a grace period after deactivation,
> 
> I suggest you read the original mail before participating in
>  the discussion.
> 
> > where a person who misses the WaT mail, and then later has his/her
> > account disabled can quickly speak up and say they are still here,
> > and be re-enabled without having to go through any sort of NM
> > process.
> 
> Now, while having a grqace period sounds like a good idea,
>  this appeal is couched in terms that seem (to me, at least) shrouded
>  in fear of _any_ NM processing. Why is that? I mean, getting ones
>  status reverted is an inconvenience, but surely an active DD should
>  not be afraid of passing something we ask of every new developer?

A probable reason is that the NM process is getting tougher and/or that
some developpers didn't even pass an NM process...

Mike


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Re: Handling of /usr/share/locale for package name changes

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 11 février 2007 à 12:50 -0800, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> Well, the translations really should not be part of the ABI of the library;
> libraries shouldn't be engaging in direct interaction with the user, so the
> use case for localization of libraries is really limited to interfaces such
> as strerror() which will localize numeric codes for you.

What about libraries providing graphical widgets? On the contrary, it's
better when most of the localized text is provided by the library, so
that translations are consistent across different software.

-- 
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`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: Key expiry breaks most D-I Etch RC1 images

[Jason D. Clinton]

On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 21:59 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> "so please file installation reports!"

(The follow is also filed in an installation report.)

RAID+LVM /boot doesn't work as of yesterday's build. It seems fixable; a
manual invocation of "update-initramfs -k all -u" in the /target
with /target/proc and /target/sys mounted before the first reboot fixes
the issue.

Also, when forced to use the LILO boot loader because of a RAID
+LVM /boot, LILO takes *forever* to actually load the initramfs from the
physical media. Parade of dots followed by "BIOS data check successful"
occurs while waiting.

Also, by default, CPU frequency scaling is disabled for desktop
installs. This should be turned on; we are trying to save the world
after all, aren't we? 130,000+ Debian users with CPU Frequency scaling
enabled would save a lot of energy with no noticible impact to desktop
performance. Save the planet!



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Re: Key expiry breaks most D-I Etch RC1 images

[Joey Hess]

Jason D. Clinton wrote:
> Also, by default, CPU frequency scaling is disabled for desktop
> installs. This should be turned on; we are trying to save the world
> after all, aren't we? 130,000+ Debian users with CPU Frequency scaling
> enabled would save a lot of energy with no noticible impact to desktop
> performance. Save the planet!

#328411
#367307

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Amaya]

Hi, there

Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> To reduce the security risk an unused open account has, and also to
> get the number of Developers to reflect the reality, we, the Debian
> Account Managers, decided to do regular "WaT"[2] runs.

Are you familiar with the MIA Team work? How is this work insufficient
that this extra check needs to be implemented? Have you tought of a way
to integrate the results of your tool into the MIA database?

I tend to welcome this efforts, but I see this as a "let's reinvent the
wheel" thing. 

Maybe this could be triggered by request of the MIA team, instead of by
not voting? AFAIK, only around half of the DDs vote.

Thanks!

-- 
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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
 `. `'   Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable)
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On dim, 2007-02-11 at 15:35 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> an active DD should
>  not be afraid of passing something we ask of every new developer?

On dim, 2007-02-11 at 22:49 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
A probable reason is that the NM process is getting tougher and/or that
> some developpers didn't even pass an NM process... 

More than difficulty, I think *time* is the problem.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Mark Purcell]

On Sunday 11 February 2007 14:22, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > I don't think using the single criteria such as DPL voting is a good,
> > approach.
>
> Now, explain where the problem in my approach is? The worst case that
> can happen to someone who does not vote is that he replies to one
> mail. Its not as if not voting means immediate account deactivation...

Joerg,

I don't think we should target developers who don't vote with a WaT query.

Especially if said developer has been active in other ways; uploading 
packages, posting to mailing lists, working in the BTS... or any of the other 
metrics measured by mia-query.

By all means I fully support sending an WaT query to a developer who hasn't 
been active on the multi-criteria, including not voting.

In some societies, voting IS compulsory.

In Debian voting is NOT compulsory, thus we shouldn't target developers who 
don't vote with any sort of request.

That said we should encourage all developers to participate in the vote.

The start of this thread is all about handling of inactive accounts, which I 
also fully support.

Not voting is a poor indication of an inactive account, mia-query is a good 
indication of an inactive account.

WaT queries should be prepared against a good indication of an inactive 
account.

Mark


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:33:40 +0100, Amaya  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Hi, there
> Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>> To reduce the security risk an unused open account has, and also to
>> get the number of Developers to reflect the reality, we, the Debian
>> Account Managers, decided to do regular "WaT"[2] runs.

> Are you familiar with the MIA Team work? How is this work
> insufficient that this extra check needs to be implemented? Have you
> tought of a way to integrate the results of your tool into the MIA
> database?

I think the difference is that the MIA process is too
 conservative, and does not require an positive action on the part of
 maintainers, and starts with the default that all maintainers are
 active.   Looking at people who vote for a DPL means that the DD's
 have to take an active role in indicating that they are present.

Case in point, che just went into emeritus mode after years of
 inaction -- which our much vaunted MIA process had failed to point
 out.

How many other MIA people are undiscovered by our current
 process? 

> I tend to welcome this efforts, but I see this as a "let's reinvent
> the wheel" thing.

> Maybe this could be triggered by request of the MIA team, instead of
> by not voting? AFAIK, only around half of the DDs vote.

Have you considered that most of the other half are not
 around, and that our MIA process has not found them out?

manoj
-- 
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:39:46 +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On dim, 2007-02-11 at 15:35 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> an active DD should not be afraid of passing something we ask of
>> every new developer?

> On dim, 2007-02-11 at 22:49 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote: A probable
> reason is that the NM process is getting tougher and/or that
>> some developpers didn't even pass an NM process...

> More than difficulty, I think *time* is the problem.  -- Yves-Alexis

A reduced NM process should be less time consuming than the
 full one, no?

manoj
-- 
Better to kill time than have it kill you. karl
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On dim, 2007-02-11 at 17:18 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> A reduced NM process should be less time consuming than the
>  full one, no? 

Well, it depends on the steps which are removed from the NM process, and
how this "reduced" process is made. I guess it should be less time
consuming, but I can understand the words "NM process" are feared by
some DD.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Amaya]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> I think the difference is that the MIA process is too
> conservative, 

It starts off being polite, indeed. And patient. You never know the
reason why a person is not so active anymore. Tbm gave a talk about how
it is done and why it is done like that in Oslo, 2003 (Debconf3). Worth
seeing. 

> and does not require an positive action on the part of maintainers, 

Yes, it does. They need to fix their packages, or they get orphaned.
When no packages are left, we talk to DAM.

> and starts with the default that all maintainers are active.

Yes. That's the deafult state for any DD, even when you file a bug in
their packages.

> Looking at people who vote for a DPL means that the DD's have to take
> an active role in indicating that they are present.

I was technically MIA for quite a bit, and still voted. 

> How many other MIA people are undiscovered by our current process? 

I'm sure there are plenty. And I *do* want to believe that no more than
25% of us are MIA. There's currently aprox 650 entries in the MIA db.
This does not mean that they are MIA now, but that they have been at
some point. This means people come and go in and out of MIA, and it's
just life.

> Have you considered that most of the other half are not around, and
> that our MIA process has not found them out?

I am not opposed to this as long as it is done in sync with MIA. I see
no reason to bother people twice about the same issue by different
Debian teams. Redundancy of data makes it harder to track people down,
imho.

-- 
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 : :' :-- Emma Goldman
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:37:33 +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On dim, 2007-02-11 at 17:18 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> A reduced NM process should be less time consuming than the full
>> one, no?

> Well, it depends on the steps which are removed from the NM process,
> and how this "reduced" process is made. I guess it should be less
> time consuming, but I can understand the words "NM process" are
> feared by some DD.  -- Yves-Alexis

In that case, these DD's had better not miss voting the in the
 DPL election, now, should they? Evil Grin:/>

manoj
-- 
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Mike Hommey wrote:
> A probable reason is that the NM process is getting tougher and/or that
> some developpers didn't even pass an NM process...

Then we are better off without them.  I can understandy anyone trying to
avoid NM in the grounds that it is a hassle (as in they'd rather be doing
something else), etc.  But any current DDs who would have real trouble
getting through NM really should leave.

I very much doubt any of our active, skilled old-school DDs that never went
through NM would have any sort of trouble with it.  It would take some time
and minor effort -- it always does -- but that's about it.

I suppose there must be some valid reasons to oppose the process, but
lazyness and the need to vote once an year are not good ones.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On dim, 2007-02-11 at 15:35 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > an active DD should
> >  not be afraid of passing something we ask of every new developer?
> 
> On dim, 2007-02-11 at 22:49 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
> A probable reason is that the NM process is getting tougher and/or that
> > some developpers didn't even pass an NM process... 
> 
> More than difficulty, I think *time* is the problem.

Agreed, but anyone who cannot take the time to vote once an year really
should be asking for his account to be locked for a while (i.e. a vacation)
until he has more time to dedicate to Debian, don't you think?

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:43:27 +0100, Amaya  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> I think the difference is that the MIA process is too conservative,

> It starts off being polite, indeed. And patient. You never know the
> reason why a person is not so active anymore. Tbm gave a talk about
> how it is done and why it is done like that in Oslo, 2003
> (Debconf3). Worth seeing.

>> and does not require an positive action on the part of maintainers,

> Yes, it does. They need to fix their packages, or they get orphaned.
> When no packages are left, we talk to DAM.

This is the part I'm unsure about. I think, as che recently
 mentioned, he has been missing for years. His packages were
 properly orphaned, but the account cleanup never happened.

I am given the impression that the primary focus of the MIA
 process is taking care of packages, not account cleanup.

I applaud the effort by the DAM's to gather the required
 information on their own, taking the burden of writing whatever code
 that needs be written, as opposed to asking the MIA folks to add
 code/process over and beyond what they already do.

I like this scratching your own itch as opposed to telling
 other people how they should do more work.  This is the way free
 software should work.

If the MIA people pro-actively add a process of sending
 delinquent account details to the DAM's in order to seed the  WaT
 mails, I don't think this information would be discarded.

manoj
-- 
love, n.: When you don't want someone too close--because you're very
sensitive to pleasure.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Joerg Jaspert]

On 10928 March 1977, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Yes, it does. They need to fix their packages, or they get orphaned.
> When no packages are left, we talk to DAM.

No. You(Mia) didnt (in the past).

>> How many other MIA people are undiscovered by our current process? 
> I'm sure there are plenty. And I *do* want to believe that no more than
> 25% of us are MIA. There's currently aprox 650 entries in the MIA db.
> This does not mean that they are MIA now, but that they have been at
> some point. This means people come and go in and out of MIA, and it's
> just life.

There is more than 25%. One reaason to do WaT.


No, I wont go with only data from MIA. While the MIA work is good to
have, its not done for the purpose WaT is done. MIA is to get the
packages away from people that miss the time to work on them. After
thats done its basically over.

Yes, the MIA results can (and will) be input for future WaT runs.
As possible other things.

<>
[...] like how many flamewars you start (not one flamewar in 3 months?
You are out, obviously). Or if you havent NMUed X at least twice in
6 months. More than 3 NEW packages a month. [Add more if you want]



Come on people - how about you trust us to do the right thing and not
deactivate accounts that shouldnt? Its not as if we run around blind,
deaf, whatever and ignore reality.

-- 
bye Joerg
 geht nur in IE
 unter win
 autsch ich glaub das war ein eigentor


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 03:35:27PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>  ...  I mean, getting ones
>  status reverted is an inconvenience, but surely an active DD should
>  not be afraid of passing something we ask of every new developer?
IIUC if A is the number of people expelled from Debian and if B is the
number of people who have dropped out of the NM process and if C is the
number of people who did not pass the NM process, and if D is the number
of DD who will not pass a re-admit test, then the total of A+B+C+D would
be a small number (lets say less than 20) and thus the number of people
who want to be in Debian and should be in Debian is close to 100%. So I
dont think there is a real change that a re-test would cause someone
like this to be kicked out.
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Steffen Joeris]

Hi mates

> This is the part I'm unsure about. I think, as che recently
>  mentioned, he has been missing for years. His packages were
>  properly orphaned, but the account cleanup never happened.
>
> I am given the impression that the primary focus of the MIA
>  process is taking care of packages, not account cleanup.
>
> I applaud the effort by the DAM's to gather the required
>  information on their own, taking the burden of writing whatever code
>  that needs be written, as opposed to asking the MIA folks to add
>  code/process over and beyond what they already do.
Why not just logging in to merkel and using "mia-todo needs-wat" ?
As far as I can see right now there are plenty of people listed there with no 
packages and they can be the targets for the first run.
This way the people get pinged by the MIA team and if they are marked as "WAT" 
they can be given over to the DAM (where the DAM just needs to see the status 
on merkel). And if the DAM wants to he can just mark them as "WAT sent" or 
some other magic and all of this can perfectly be done in the MIA db and I 
still fail to see a problem with that.

Cheers
Steffen


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On dim, 2007-02-11 at 22:59 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > More than difficulty, I think *time* is the problem.
> 
> Agreed, but anyone who cannot take the time to vote once an year
> really
> should be asking for his account to be locked for a while (i.e. a
> vacation)
> until he has more time to dedicate to Debian, don't you think? 

I was speaking about NM process time, not the (short) time to vote.

On dim, 2007-02-11 at 18:50 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> In that case, these DD's had better not miss voting the in the
> DPL election, now, should they? Evil Grin:/> 

Yeah, you're perfectly right. That's the best advice one could give to
not so active DD who doesn't want to lose much time («"lose" the time to
vote so you don't "lose" the time in NM»). But as someone said, some DD
may not be interested in Debian politics (and especially since
recently), and Debian is first about about tech, so they may have lost
all interest in politics (to the point of forgetting that "Voting" is
present in the DD Duties, in dev-ref).

On my own, I think it's important to vote (especially since I can't do
it, I guess), but I understand that people can fear the all process.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Mike Hommey]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 07:47:48AM +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Yeah, you're perfectly right. That's the best advice one could give to
> not so active DD who doesn't want to lose much time («"lose" the time to
> vote so you don't "lose" the time in NM»). But as someone said, some DD
> may not be interested in Debian politics (and especially since
> recently), and Debian is first about about tech, so they may have lost
> all interest in politics (to the point of forgetting that "Voting" is
> present in the DD Duties, in dev-ref).

The difference between a DD and a non-DD is mainly about voting, so if a
DD doesn't have interest in politics, he could just do like a lot of
non-DD people: have a sponsor.

Mike


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Benjamin Seidenberg]

Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 07:47:48AM +0100, Yves-Alexis Perez <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Yeah, you're perfectly right. That's the best advice one could give to
>> not so active DD who doesn't want to lose much time («"lose" the time to
>> vote so you don't "lose" the time in NM»). But as someone said, some DD
>> may not be interested in Debian politics (and especially since
>> recently), and Debian is first about about tech, so they may have lost
>> all interest in politics (to the point of forgetting that "Voting" is
>> present in the DD Duties, in dev-ref).
>> 
>
> The difference between a DD and a non-DD is mainly about voting, so if a
> DD doesn't have interest in politics, he could just do like a lot of
> non-DD people: have a sponsor.
>
> Mike
>
>
>   

Someone could be interested in voting on things like the GFDL, technical
questions, etc, but not care about the DPL election.

Benjamin



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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On lun, 2007-02-12 at 08:05 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
> The difference between a DD and a non-DD is mainly about voting, so if
> a
> DD doesn't have interest in politics, he could just do like a lot of
> non-DD people: have a sponsor. 

When dealing with a large set of packages (read "Xfce"), it's sometime
quite painfull to rely on a sponsor. Even if he's part of the team.
That's my own experience and ymmv, but quite some time is lost there.
-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Handling of (inactive) Debian Accounts

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 02:53:25PM +1100, Steffen Joeris wrote:

> Why not just logging in to merkel and using "mia-todo needs-wat" ?

> As far as I can see right now there are plenty of people listed
> there with no packages and they can be the targets for the first
> run.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/qa.debian.org/mia$ ./mia-todo needs-wat
0 maintainers in possible need of needs-wat

-- 
Lionel


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