Re: Linking (ld) problem with package.

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

I'd be interested in reading the solution, just for the knowledge.


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Re: Debian Commercial Support

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Bruce" == Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Bruce> I am looking for developers around the world who are
Bruce> interested in handling email support and/or telephone
Bruce> support for pay.

 I'm interested, and willing to help and learn.  If nothing else, for
 the next year an a half or so, I'd like to watch and see how it's
 done.

 [ Just bought Richard Stevens `APIUE'. ]

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Portland, OR  USA
Debian GNU 1.3.1+hamm Linux 2.0.32 AMD K5 PR-133


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Re: Technical Support Database suggestion..., CL-HTTP-P

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Andreas" == Andreas Jellinghaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Andreas> what about implementing this : make the database
Andreas> writeable for everyone (e.g. via a cgi script, or a small
Andreas> programm, that sends an email like bug, perfect : both),
Andreas> and "only" moderate it (accept or reject
Andreas> submissions). this way our users could help us !

 `smartlist' and `procmail' would be obvious choices for this type of
 application.[1] I made a simple hack with it that will write a mail
 sent through it into the `POP' bulletins directory.  It showed me
 that anything is possible with `procmail'.

>> All these applications should be web based.

 I think email & web, with searching from both.  The `smartlist'
 searching and retrieval could stand improvement.  It would be good to
 improve the searching syntax a little; make it more natural to use.

Andreas> i agree. sgml could the best format for the whole thing :
Andreas> you could also create text versions, or print the whole
Andreas> thing with tex.

 Sounds good.

Andreas> go !  as usual : it get's only done, if you do it
Andreas> yourself, so go !

 That's us.

 Q: Has anyone else been goofing with the CL-HTTP server?  It has
 tremendous potential for applications of this sort.  It's worth
 looking into, I think.  There already exist applications written for
 it that perform this sort of duty.  Please look into it with me.

 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/cl-http/home-page.html

 ... and there are other links off my page that may or may not be of
 interest.

Footnotes: 
[1]  I think it would be neat to upgrade the regexp stuff in
 `procmail' to utilize the new `pcre' library!

-- 
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http://www.inetarena.com/~karlheg
Portland, OR  USA
Debian GNU 1.3.1+hamm Linux 2.0.32 AMD K5 PR-133


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Re: RFC: Deb 2.0 testing process

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Brandon" == Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Brandon> One idea that the testers seemed to like is to create a
Brandon> checklist for checking each package.

 It seems to me that a fairly comprehensive set of general guidelines
 would be more useful.  The checklist format might work well.  Perhaps
 it should become part of the developer and packager's guide(s) or the
 policy manual.

-- 
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http://www.inetarena.com/~karlheg
Portland, OR  USA
Debian GNU 1.3.1+hamm Linux 2.0.32 AMD K5 PR-133


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Re: DEBIAN ANNOUNCES $1000 GRANT TO GNOME PROJECT

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "bruce" == bruce  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

bruce> Oops, I left an SMTP command at the end of that
bruce> message. Did you see it?

 I thought you were jesting with us.  We'll never quit. :-)


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Re: Linking (ld) problem with package.

[Stephen Zander]

Rob Browning wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to improve some stuff in the rscheme package, and I have
> several shared libraries (for rscheme internal use only), that I need
> to glom together into one big shared library -- i.e. I want the
> collected library to contain all the code from the sub-libraries -- no
> dynamic links to any of the others.  Is this possible?  I've looked
> through the ld info pages several times and haven't found anything
> that works.

Do you only have access to the sub-libraries as *.so files?


Stephen
---
"Normality is a statistical illusion." -- me



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Re: Linking (ld) problem with package.

[Rob Browning]

Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Do you only have access to the sub-libraries as *.so files?

Yes.

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Re: Need someone to take some of my packages.

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Wichert" == Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Wichert> Take a look at the code I made for lockvc 3.0. It handles
Wichert> both shadow and normal password (and mixed
Wichert> shadow/non-shadow) passwords well. And it's in a seperate
Wichert> sourcefile so it's easy to use in another application.

 Shouldn't things like that get tossed into a .so?


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Re: `COAS'

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Behan" == Behan Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Behan> Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps Diety should become a part of that?

Behan> *sigh*...  not diety, Deity.
Behan>^^

Behan> I wish people would learn to spell.  This is one of the
Behan> exceptions to the "i before e" rule.

 Type it 10 times, real fast.

 Regardle of my transpozo, did anyone follow the bouncing URL and
 find out anything of more than passing interest?

 I hope `deity' isn't sensitive about its wieght. :-)



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Re: Config file management utility

[Joey Hess]

Joe Emenaker wrote:
> Well, that's pretty much what I was suggesting in the beginning. The only
> difference is that you wouldn't have one, monolithic section. Rather,
> you'd have sections placed there by the individual packages. For example:
> 
>   echo "42 6 * * * root run-parts /etc/cron.daily" | \
> alter-file /etc/crontab --package=cron

This sounds like a good idea, rather than inventing the wheel over and over
many packages could use this single too.

Some things to look out for, though:

- if the file alter-file is a conffile, there will be problems later when
you upgrade the package containg the conffile. Perhaps this could be gotten
around by having the package with the conffile in it do somthing like
alter-file /etc/crontab --removeall, to remove all modification, and then in
the postinst, the package would run alter-file again to merge all the
modifications back into the conffile.

- you have to consider what happens if alter-file is asked to modify a file
that does not yet exist, becuase the package it is in has not been installed
yet.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: `COAS'

[Behan Webster]

Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
> 
>  Regardle of my transpozo, did anyone follow the bouncing URL and
>  find out anything of more than passing interest?

Yes.  We are already aware of this project and URL.  Bruce made us aware
of this project while it was still in it's infancy, in fact before this
web page was available.

>  I hope `deity' isn't sensitive about its wieght. :-)

Deity is a fully-figured... , I mean fully-featured product!  8)

Thanks,

Behan
(UI designer for the Deity project)

-- 
Behan Webster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-613-224-7547   http://www.verisim.com/


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Re: lockfiles and mutual exclusion

[Karl M. Hegbloom]

> "Adrian" == Adrian Bridgett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Adrian> update-menus forks to the background and waits for dpkg to
Adrian> finish before continuing to work. This is a useful
Adrian> function that could be useful for other programs (for
Adrian> instance scripts that build automated indexes of other
Adrian> kinds).

Adrian> Is there a cunning way to achieve this at present?

 Grab `procmail', and RTFM `lockfile'.  That's one way it can be done.
 There's a little program with `smartlist' too, called `led' or
 something, that's a wrapper around an editorling[1].  It makes a
 lockfile, then starts the ed on the procmail run-control file you are
 working on.  As long as the lockfile is present, `procmail' will hang
 out until you're done.

 I wrote some XEmacs lisp code for editting procmail rc files that
 does a similar thing.  Some of you may like to have it; it's in my
 http dirs at:

 http://www.inetarena.com/~karlheg/Public/site-lisp/

 ... it's called `led-funcs.el' or suchlike.  It's a first pass effort
 and could use a workover, but functions well enough to use now.[2]

 A lock like this is called a "mutex lock". (do I pass the quiz?  or
 am I misusing the terms?)  That means "mutual exclusion lock".  As
 long as the programs involved honor the locking scheme, they'll not
 stomp on one another.

 `dpkg' and `dselect' make a lock file; I know because I've tried to
 start it while it's already running on another tty, and it told
 me. :-)


Footnotes: 
[1]  Not necessarily a sensible editor.

[2]  There's a few other things in there you might like to have. :-)

-- 
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http://www.inetarena.com/~karlheg
Portland, OR  USA
Debian GNU 1.3.1+hamm Linux 2.0.32 AMD K5 PR-133


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Re: `COAS'

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On 4 Dec 1997, Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:

>  Regardle of my transpozo, did anyone follow the bouncing URL and
>  find out anything of more than passing interest?

I looked at it some time ago. If anything it is a compainion to Deity. We
might see future integration when the topic of remote administration comes
up. 

As far as I can see it has no relavence to what Deity is doing. It is a
framework for persistantly storing and changing configuration information.

Jason
Deity


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Re: Linking (ld) problem with package.

[Stephen Zander]

Rob Browning wrote:
> Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 
> > Do you only have access to the sub-libraries as *.so files?
> 
> Yes.

Using libelfg0-dev seems like the likeliest sucessful approach. I'll
play with it on the way home tonight (I hope) if I can find my ELF
reference docs.

Stephen
---
"Normality is a statistical illusion." -- me



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Re: Linking (ld) problem with package.

[Rob Browning]

Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Using libelfg0-dev seems like the likeliest sucessful approach. I'll
> play with it on the way home tonight (I hope) if I can find my ELF
> reference docs.

Oh, don't go that far.  If ld (or some other standard tool can't
handle this) I'll just figure out some other way to deal with it.

I think I can restructure the make process to get access to the .o
files earlier.

Thanks, though.

-- 
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Re: Config file management utility

[Joe Emenaker]

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Joey Hess wrote:

> Some things to look out for, though:
> 
> - if the file alter-file is a conffile, there will be problems later when
> you upgrade the package containg the conffile.

I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at.

The way I'm thinking, if a package (say, cron) was going to use this
hypothetical tool to manage /etc/crontab, say... then it wouldn't have a
crontab in the /etc directory of the .deb file. It would, instead, have a
copy of the _snippet_it_wants_to_contribute_to_the_config_file somewhere
like /usr/lib/cron/crontab.snippet or something. Then, the actual
creation/ateration of /etc/crontab would be done with the tool... invoked
from, say, postinst. So, instead of having an /etc/crontab in the .deb
archive, postinst would have something like:

   alter-file /etc/crontab --package=cron < /usr/lib/cron/crontab.snippet

The pitfall I'm forseeing (which doesn't seem to me to be the same one
you're thinking of), is what happens the first time we upgrade a package
that has now switched over to using this new tool? The new tool will be
looking for its BEGIN and END markers for that package when there won't be
any. I guess there's no crime in having the tool just stomp on the
previous version of the file since that's what dpkg would do (but giving
the user the 'ol Y,N,I,O,Z choices).

> - you have to consider what happens if alter-file is asked to modify a file
> that does not yet exist, becuase the package it is in has not been installed
> yet.

I had assumed that the default behavior would be that the file would be
created right then and there. In fact, I'm having enough trouble forseeing
a case where you would NOT want this to happen, I'm debating whether to
even bother putting in a command-line switch to turn that behavior off.

- Joe



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Re: bo-updates packages

[Steve Greenland]

On 05-Dec-1997 02:11:22, Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Greenland) writes:
> > And who is going to check and make sure that all the other packages in
> > bo that use perl, bash and the "few other important goodies" still
> > work the new versions? That's what a "stable" version is all about...
> > 
> Probably not you.

True enough :-)

> But anyway who can guarantee that a mixed system
> consisting of a mere hodge podge of bo and hamm behaves ok either?

Nobody, but I don't *expect* it to, either. I guess my theory on this
is that if the change is "small enough" to expect no problems (i.e.
perl-5.003 -> perl-5.004 (or whatever the actual number are)), then
is it *really* necessary to provide the upgrade? The people who care
most about being on the leading edge of releases can mess around with
hamm or build their own. There's a basic contradiction between "stable"
and "newest". It seems to me that that somehow by putting new releases
of packages under the tree named "stable" (logically, not necessarily
physically), that they magically *become* stable.

> Guess why i proposed to name a directory with libc5 compiled hamm
> packages "bo-unstable"?

Sorry, didn't see that: the Subject line says "bo-updates", which
would make most people leap for their ftp program, without much
thought about what they are getting.

If people must do this, it seems to me the correct name is not
'bo-', but 'hamm-libc5'.

steve
-- 
Steve Greenland


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Re: Intent to package: umich-ldap / WNPP: Dermot Bradley probably not maintaining packages

[Joey Hess]

Dermot John Bradley wrote:
> > I think Dermot Bradley isn't actively maintaining packages.
> 
> As for the current state of my packages (and proposed packages):
> 
> - libgd & libgd-dev: trying to figure how to build got libc5 and libc6
> versions using debmake - any help welcomed.
> 
> - mrtg: depends on me first finishing libgd and libgd-dev

I hope you don't mind, but I released libc6 versions of libgd and mrtg
yesterday. I was just going on what someone said that you seemed to have
stopped maintain packages. The new packages have my name on them as
maintainer, and they use debhelper instead of debmake. You might just want
to throw out my changes and start over, on the other hand, you may find my
changes useful. In any case, I didn't mean to ursup your packages - I
thought you were gone, and I expect you'll take them back over..

-- 
see shy jo


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.deb

[Gigabyte]

i was asked  if i could used files like Tkdesk from the 
Debian/Linux 1.3.1 and use it on other Linux like OpenLinux ?
if so how can i do that ... 
TIA .


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Re: [Q] Standard way to force libc5-compat?

[Joey Hess]

Benjamin Redelings I wrote:
> Hi, I successfully upgraded to hamm from a very recent CD.  I've got
> netscape, Realplayer

Both of these are available as debian installer packages, you know.

>   What I need to know right know is whether or not there is a "standard"
> way to run binaries (such as netscape) that have been builts with
> libc5.

Er, just run them. If it's linked with libc5, the linker will have it use
libc5:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~>ldd /usr/lib/netscape/netscape
libXt.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libXt.so.6 (0x4000c000)
libSM.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libSM.so.6 (0x4004e000)
libICE.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libICE.so.6 (0x40057000)
libXmu.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libXmu.so.6 (0x4006c000)
libXpm.so.4 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libXpm.so.4 (0x4007e000)
libXext.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libXext.so.6 (0x4008c000)
libX11.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6 (0x40097000)
libdl.so.1 => /lib/libdl.so.1 (0x40135000)
libc.so.5 => /lib/libc.so.5 (0x40138000)
libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x401f4000)

Of course, /usr/lib/libc5-compat needs to be listed in /etc/ld.so.conf.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: .deb

[Ben Gertzfield]

> "Gigabyte" == Gigabyte  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Gigabyte> i was asked if i could used files like Tkdesk from the
Gigabyte> Debian/Linux 1.3.1 and use it on other Linux like
Gigabyte> OpenLinux ?  if so how can i do that ...  TIA .

Sure. Just install the 'alien' program, available at
http://kite.ml.org/programs/ :)

-- 
Brought to you by the letters K and P and the number 6.
"Egad! A base tone denotes a bad age." -- TMBG
Ben Gertzfield  Finger me for my public
PGP key. I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet and YiffNet IRC as Che_Fox.


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Tyson Dowd]

On 02-Dec-1997, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   No, please don't muck with reply-to. That's evil. And if I
>  hadn't lost my disk, I'd have a handy-dandy url for you. Hmmm. Try 
>  http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Which, as we have discussed before on this list, is an incorrect
assesment of the problem as it applies to the debian lists.

1. We have a policy of no cc:s, but nearly everyone uses them
   because there is no Reply-To: set.
2. We have information that should be on the list going into
   private email instead (where it is effectively *lost* to all
   other developers).
3. We have threads jumping from debian-private to debian-devel
   because people accidently add the wrong To: or Cc: header by
   hand after replying to the individual instead of the list.
   Nothing too confidential has been disclosed yet.
4. We are penalizing people with low-bandwith or high-cost net
   connections by forcing them to download things multiple times.

On the plus side, in the very occasional situations where a "Reply-To:"
is useful, we don't munge it. This is useful when you want to reply to
someone in person, but their "From:" address doesn't work, or if
you want to move a discussion from one mailing list to another (except
that if people use "group reply" as advocated by that URL, 
it will probably just move it to *both* lists).

I'd like it to be fixed, but it seems that there are a few people who
have strong opinions on the matter, but are not prepared to discuss or
fix the problems it causes.

-- 
   Tyson Dowd   # 
# Linux versus Windows is a 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]#Win lose situation.
http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~trd #


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Re: Technical Support Database suggestion..., CL-HTTP-P

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

Personally, I find procmail underpowered for a proposal like
 this. Try mailagents generic command server mode, which comes
 pre-built and read to customize. 

For scalability (short of going with Oracle v7.2), I'd try
 postgreasql and mailagent. Sharper learning curves but infinitely
 more scalable.

manoj

>>"Karl" == Karl M Hegbloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> "Andreas" == Andreas Jellinghaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andreas> what about implementing this : make the database writeable
Andreas> for everyone (e.g. via a cgi script, or a small programm,
Andreas> that sends an email like bug, perfect : both), and "only"
Andreas> moderate it (accept or reject submissions). this way our
Andreas> users could help us !

-- 
 "`Self-esteem' [has been] promoted over and over again as the new
 panacea, along with teaching `responsibility.'  However, parents must
 remember that `self-esteem' is a double-edged sword.  While it may be
 true that a child needs a great deal of self-confidence to reject
 undesirable peer influence, it will, at the same time, require a
 defiantly self-confident child to have the courage to violate his or
 her family values and/or Judeo-Christian heritage, and engage in the
 `responsible' promiscuity being promoted by the liberal sex
 educators." Margo Szews, Anti-Choice Educator, A.L.L. About Issues,
 June - July '89, as quoted in "The Far Right, Speaking For
 Themselves," a Planned Parenthood pamphlet
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: WWW bug monitoring

[James A . Treacy]

> Why don't we create a new psuedo-package for the mirroring problems,
> or one for problems with the content ?  Please discuss this with Mike
> and I or Guy can arrange this easily enough, and I'll make my script
> report the bugs in whatever is the appropriate psuedo-package.
> 
www.debian.org is now on va.debian.org and under our control so
Sue's objections have been pretty much corrected. Here is
a list of the mirrors and their maintainers (pseudo-package names
should simply be www..debian.org):

> Country   Code  IP contact person
> Australia  AU  203.8.116.8 Andrew Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> France FR  194.51.88.203   Vincent Renardias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> GermanyDE  141.76.20.99Sven Rudolph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Israel IL  192.117.75.129  Boris D. Beletsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Japan  JP  203.141.185.103 Fumitoshi Ukai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> NetherlandsNL  195.64.68.196   Danny ter Haar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Spain  ES  193.145.97.49   Enrique Zanardi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 molec2.dfis.ull.es
> United States  US  206.246.79.86   Michael Shields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

and of course www.debian.org . This should probably be put in my name as
Sue is rather busy so I'll be doing most of the work.

- Jay


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Tyson Dowd]

On 05-Dec-1997, Tyson Dowd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I'd like it to be fixed, but it seems that there are a few people who
> have strong opinions on the matter, but are not prepared to discuss or
> fix the problems it causes.

Sorry, this came out sounding harsher than it was supposed to. I just
think that there are some problems that could really do with solving,
and Reply-To: would do it at a relatively small cost.

-- 
   Tyson Dowd   # 
# Linux versus Windows is a 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]#Win lose situation.
http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~trd #


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Re: bo-updates packages

[Rob Browning]

Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Nobody, but I don't *expect* it to, either. I guess my theory on this
> is that if the change is "small enough" to expect no problems (i.e.
> perl-5.003 -> perl-5.004 (or whatever the actual number are)), then
> is it *really* necessary to provide the upgrade?

Don't forget that installing this *minor* upgrade would break *all*
the packages like perl-tk that depend on a particular version of
perl.  Come to think of it, I think I need to change my perl-tk
Depends to be more restrictive...

-- 
Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94  53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30


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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

Personally, I still think that reply-to is a bad solution; we
 are just pandering to broken software (decent software, like gnus,
 allows on to set mailing list parameters [look for to-address] such
 that group replies go only to the list). Or else one can just delete
 additional addresses.

When I hit the reply button, I want to talk to the author. Not
 to the list. If someone wants a reply sent to a different address, I
 want my reply to go to the place they have set. Why are you breaking
 that? To cater to broken software? 

If I choose to send a message to a person personally, I do not
 want Debian to hijack that message.

Why do we have a policy about CC's? I like CC's; they genrally
 propogate to me faster. Where is this policy stated? (I just looked
 into debian-policy, and /usr/doc/debian/mailing-list.txt, with no
 success). If indeed there is such a policy, it has been hidden quite
 succesfully. (I certainly don't remember this being ratified).

The people with sad mail software and lazy fingers are
 penalizing the people with low bandwidth. Don't break conforming
 software to cater to broken software.

manoj
-- 
 Any vacuum cleaner would sooner take the nap off a rug than remove
 white threads from a dark rug.
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Group Parameters


   The group parameters store information local to a particular group:

`to-address'
 If the group parameter list contains an element that looks like
 `(to-address .  "[EMAIL PROTECTED]")', that address will be used by
 the backend when doing followups and posts.  This is primarily
 useful in mail groups that represent closed mailing lists--mailing
 lists where it's expected that everybody that writes to the
 mailing list is subscribed to it.  Since using this parameter
 ensures that the mail only goes to the mailing list itself, it
 means that members won't receive two copies of your followups.

 Using `to-address' will actually work whether the group is foreign
 or not.  Let's say there's a group on the server that is called
 `fa.4ad-l'.  This is a real newsgroup, but the server has gotten
 the articles from a mail-to-news gateway.  Posting directly to this
 group is therefore impossible--you have to send mail to the mailing
 list address instead.

`to-list'
 If the group parameter list has an element that looks like
 `(to-list . "[EMAIL PROTECTED]")', that address will be used when
 doing a `a' in that group.  It is totally ignored when doing a
 followup--except that if it is present in a news group, you'll get
 mail group semantics when doing `f'.

 If you do an `a' command in a mail group and you don't have a
 `to-list' group parameter, one will be added automatically upon
 sending the message.
`broken-reply-to'
 Elements like `(broken-reply-to . t)' signals that `Reply-To'
 headers in this group are to be ignored.  This can be useful if
 you're reading a mailing list group where the listserv has inserted
 `Reply-To' headers that point back to the listserv itself.  This is
 broken behavior.  So there!

`admin-address'
 When unsubscribing from a mailing list you should never send the
 unsubscription notice to the mailing list itself.  Instead, you'd
 send messages to the administrative address.  This parameter
 allows you to put the admin address somewhere convenient.


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majordomo and exim

[G John Lapeyre]

I am trying to setup majordomo.  I am quite ignorant about
everything involved (even so, I am on the developer keyring !).
After several hours of effort, I have majordomo working with exim. 
I never even knew what the different MTA's were , much less how to use
them.  However, I think all the changes to the majordomo installation that
I made were neccessary.  It seems as if it comes out of the .deb ready for
use with sendmail as an MTA, although the depends line for majordomo just
says any MTA.  One problem for instance is that, while exim can be invoked
as 'sendmail', it chokes on  some of the sendmail arguments.  I only
figured it out at the end, or I would have switched to sendmail (I didn't
even know which MTA I had).  
Does this constitute a bug ?   Is exim so uncommon that no one
noticed it before?


G John Lapeyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre



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Re: bo-updates packages

[Martin Mitchell]

Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Guess
> why i proposed to name a directory with libc5 compiled hamm packages
> "bo-unstable"?

Surely bo-unstable == hamm, so please invest your time in hamm, not
something that will be discarded in a few months.

Martin.


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Postilion Package

[tdale]

Dear Debian Developer World,

I have made a debian package for the mail program Postilion.  I then
read that one should post ones intentions here so as to avoid a
duplicate effort.

So is anyone else working on a debian package for the mail reader
Postilion.  If not I intend to.  I have also mailed the author asking
for his approval.

-- 
Dale James Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])


pgpgA4goymF7u.pgp
Description: PGP signature

dpkg-source problem

[Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler]

Hello,

 when I use dpkg-source on an unchanged source tree it complains
 about "unrepresentable changes". dpkg-buildpackage exits with an
 error code.
 Is this a bug or a feature? How can I circumvent it?

 Thanks,

  Ulf

--

 #include 


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Re: Postilion Package

[fog]

On  5 Dic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear Debian Developer World,
> 
> I have made a debian package for the mail program Postilion.  I then
> read that one should post ones intentions here so as to avoid a
> duplicate effort.
> 
> So is anyone else working on a debian package for the mail reader
> Postilion.  If not I intend to.  I have also mailed the author asking
> for his approval.

Yes, me. I would have put the package out some time ago, but the author
asked me to wait until a more stable release (like 0.8a) was released,
and I did just that: I waited. If you want the package is your, just
make sure to build it with my lastest release of tkstep 8.0, that
is much faster than tkstep 4.2.

Ciao and good work.


* Federico Di Gregorio  |  /  *-=$< ;-) TeX Wizard?*
* Debian developer! | / -1pgp: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
*   |/try http://www.debian.org*
**DE 9E B2 75 B4 F6 CC 5B  C3 D5 71 51 04 AB F3 B2**


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Consultants/Tech support

[fog]

Hi,

some time ago Bruce nounced the discussion about consultants
was moving to another debian mailing list. I tried to subscribe but
nothing happened... can someone tell me how to do it?

BTW, is not the first time I can't subscribe to a list...
I tried multiple times to send subsciption to 
debian-devel-announce-request and debian-announce-request and nothing
happened. Ciao.


* Federico Di Gregorio  |  /  *-=$< ;-) TeX Wizard?*
* Debian developer! | / -1pgp: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
*   |/try http://www.debian.org*
**DE 9E B2 75 B4 F6 CC 5B  C3 D5 71 51 04 AB F3 B2**


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Re: Contents.gz

[Guy Maor]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Braakman) writes:

> There's ~maor/masterfiles/mkcontents on master, but I don't know if
> that is the script that was actually used to create them.

That's it.

> Unfortunately, per-user crontab files are read-protected, so there's
> no way to trace a path from the weekly cron job to the Contents file.

I've got a copy of my crontab in ~maor/masterfiles/crontab.maor for
that exact reason.  Ian has his in ~iwj/masterfiles/crontab.iwj.


Guy


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Re: What, why, where, utmp?

[Guy Maor]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Miquel van Smoorenburg) writes:

> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I know that one of the latest "fixes" to dpkg-buildpackage deals with the
> >lack of utmp entries, but don't understand why they were abandoned.
> 
> They weren't - the size of the entries in the above mentioned database
> changed because of the move to libc6 (libc6 defines a different, more
> complete `struct utmp' which is the fixed-size entry I was talking about).
> Because of that, some old programs were unable to read the new format.

All true, but the fixes to dpkg-buildpackage aren't related.  The
script is using wtmp to figure out who's logged in so that the support
files created during the sudo parts of the build get chown'd back to
the original user.

> >This command works ok if you are logged in
> >as root, but when you try to use it as a user, you get a utmp entry
> >missing error, with some statement about login only running from the base
> >shell.
> 
> Presumably your root shell reckognizes "login" as a special case and does
> an "exec login" instead, and the normal user shell doesn't.

No, login doesn't do the wtmp check if you're running as root.

> By using login directly, the
> logout+new login entry never gets written so someone using "last" will only
> see the first session (which accounts for the time spent by both the first
> and the 2nd session).

No, login will keep wtmp correct.


Guy


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Re: Broken *deb's in hamm

[Guy Maor]

Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Could somebody modify the upload scripts to check packages and source
> files before moving them from incomming or is that to mauch cpu?

The install scripts do compare md5sums with the .changes and .dsc
files, and they run dpkg-deb -f on all the .debs.

Bit rot has apparently corrupted these files you mentioned.  I would
have expected the weekly contents creation to have detected .deb file
corruption; I'll look into why it didn't.  I already have a script
which checks every source file for sanity.  It fails on a few places,
and I'll be filing some bug reports on those packages this weekend.


Guy


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version numbers on virtual packages

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

I was going to change perl to perl5 think weekend and just provide the
virtual package perl.  This would close a bug filed by Brian White who
is worried about Perl6.  While I was thinking about this during builds
of Perl, I realized that I can't do that right now.  The problem?  dpkg
doesn't support versions on virtual packages.  Too many things depend on 
a specific version of Perl to just tell people to fix things up.

What does everyone else think?

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

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Re: version numbers on virtual packages

[Bart Schuller]

On Dec 5, Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote
> I was going to change perl to perl5 think weekend and just provide the
> virtual package perl.  This would close a bug filed by Brian White who
> is worried about Perl6.  While I was thinking about this during builds

I think you'd better make that perl5.004, because breakage could just as
well occur with 5.005 or 5.006, not just perl6. With 5.005 we'll need a
threaded and non-threaded version as well. Fun.

But are you trying to protect debian perl based packages or user written
perl programs? The user should already know about possible perl versions
and use #!/usr/bin/perl5.004 where necessary. Debian can't protect user
written code from breaking.

Preventing other debian packages from breaking can be done without
changing the package name.

-- 
Bart Schuller  [EMAIL PROTECTED] At Lunalabs, where the
Lunatech Research  http://www.lunatech.com/  future is made today..
Partner of The Perl Institute  http://www.perl.org/Linux http://www.li.org/


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Re: .deb

[Eloy A. Paris]

Ben Gertzfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

: Gigabyte> i was asked if i could used files like Tkdesk from the
: Gigabyte> Debian/Linux 1.3.1 and use it on other Linux like
: Gigabyte> OpenLinux ?  if so how can i do that ...  TIA .
:
: Sure. Just install the 'alien' program, available at
: http://kite.ml.org/programs/ :)

Alien is for the other way around: to use packages from other
distributions in Debian.

E.-

-- 

Eloy A. Paris
Information Technology Department
Rockwell Automation de Venezuela
Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9431645


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perl pre-depends on perl-base (>=5.004.04-2)

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

To solve a grave priority bug, I've made the perl package (from
5.004.04-3+) pre-depend on perl-base (>=5.004.04-2).  This is needed due
to the following:
Assume you have an earlier version of Perl installed (say from the bo
base disks) and you're installing perl (<< 5.004.04-2), perl-base, and
something that uses perl in its postinst (such as ld.so).
If perl is installed before perl.base gets to run its postinst, there
will be a period when Perl will not be available on the system.
(/usr/bin/perl is now found only in perl-base.)  This is bad.

So, I didn't follow the policy manual and get consensus for a
pre-depends in perl.  I wanted to get this package out quickly rather
than try to wait for consensus on debian-devel.

If you'd like the background of where this comes from, look at
bug#15573.

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

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interesting problem in perl vs perl5-lib\d+

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

I've got a slight problem that I "fixed" in a not completely elegant
manner.  There is a new libperl5.so.\d+ in the latest set of Perl
packages.  This means that if you just need to embed Perl into an
application and you don't need all the libraries or the executable, you
can; it's not dependent on the perl package.  The perl package is also
not dependent on the perl5-lib\d+ package since /usr/bin/perl is still
linked with a static libperl.a.  The quandary arises because of the
/usr/lib/perl5.so symbolic link that needs to be provided.  Perl already 
has many packages; I don't want to split off YAP that just contains a
few header files and a symbolic link for perl5-dev.  The perl package is 
the development package for perl5-lib\d+.  Unfortunately, this leaves me 
with a dangling symlink in /usr/lib.  This shouldn't be a problem unless 
someone links shared with -lperl5 at which point they'll be told it
doesn't work.  But the only way you could do that would be to handcraft
an appropriate Makefile rather than using MakeMaker since the Config.pm
is still correct in thinking that it's still libperl.a.

Right now, I can only think of two solutions.
1) Have a dangling symlink in the perl package.   (current practice -
   rather inelegant)
2) Make a perl5-lib-dev package that includes a   (I don't want YAPP.)
   few header files and the symlink.

Any ideas?

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

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Re: version numbers on virtual packages

[Santiago Vila Doncel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote:
> I was going to change perl to perl5 think weekend and just provide the
> virtual package perl.  This would close a bug filed by Brian White who
> is worried about Perl6.  While I was thinking about this during builds
> of Perl, I realized that I can't do that right now.  The problem?  dpkg
> doesn't support versions on virtual packages.  Too many things depend on 
> a specific version of Perl to just tell people to fix things up.
> 
> What does everyone else think?

If perl6 is not going to be ready for Debian 2.0, I think it is too soon
to worry about.

The Breaks: field could be another (nicer, IMHO) solution for this.

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Re: Intent to package: umich-ldap / WNPP: Dermot Bradley probably not maintaining packages

[Dermot John Bradley]

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Joey Hess wrote:

> I hope you don't mind, but I released libc6 versions of libgd and mrtg
> yesterday. I was just going on what someone said that you seemed to have
> stopped maintain packages.

Obviously not straight from the horse's mouth :-)

> The new packages have my name on them as
> maintainer, and they use debhelper instead of debmake. You might just want
> to throw out my changes and start over, on the other hand, you may find my
> changes useful. In any case, I didn't mean to ursup your packages - I
> thought you were gone, and I expect you'll take them back over..

I'll have a look at them over the weekend. I do have some code somebody
else produced (i.e. a post-instalation configure routine) to incorporate
into mrtg. I hope you don't mind if I take the packages back.

Shouldn't there be a requirement for a maintainer to be emailed before
someone else takes over their package? (not bitching, just wondering)

I recently (as part of my Debian upgrade) installed debhelper...yet
another packaging tool to try to get up to speed on. Has anyone produced a
hello-debhelper package yet?

Dermot

-- 
Dermot Bradley
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Intent to package: umich-ldap / WNPP: Dermot Bradley probably not maintaining packages

[Dermot John Bradley]

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Raul Miller wrote:

> >From www.debian.org, hit "developers corner". Then, start with Creating
> a Package using Debmake, after that, hit New-Maintainer's Debian
> Packaging Howto.

Ah I'd missed the bit there about simply renaming the existing tarball
after extracting the code and before running deb-make. Great, now all my
updated packages will use pristine source.

-- 
Dermot Bradley
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: perl pre-depends on perl-base (>=5.004.04-2)

[Santiago Vila Doncel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote:
> To solve a grave priority bug, I've made the perl package (from
> 5.004.04-3+) pre-depend on perl-base (>=5.004.04-2).
> [ ... ]
> So, I didn't follow the policy manual and get consensus for a
> pre-depends in perl. [ ... ]

Don't worry, you *did* actually follow the packaging manual anyway:

  Pre-Depends should be used sparingly, preferably only by
  packages whose premature upgrade or installation would hamper
  the ability of the system to continue with any upgrade that
  might be in progress.

This is exactly the case.

Thanks.

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Re: Duplicate messages on this list

[Philip Hands]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Sorry, this came out sounding harsher than it was supposed to. I just
> think that there are some problems that could really do with solving,
> and Reply-To: would do it at a relatively small cost. 

Is it really so hard to use ``Reply All'' and then cut out all the Cc: except 
the list address ?

Are there mailers that are feeble enough to make this difficult ?  Or is it 
just that people are not using the functionality available to them ?

IMHO overriding an existing Reply-To is a bad idea.

With your solution, how do you propose to deal with the case where someone has 
a good reason for using a Reply-To ?

Cheers, Phil.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Sorry, this came out sounding harsher than it was supposed to. I just
> think that there are some problems that could really do with solving,
> and Reply-To: would do it at a relatively small cost. 




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Does it conform our demands?

[Jozef Bednarik]

Dear sirs and ladies,   Brno, 12/5/1997.

We are planning to use one of our PCs (Pentium based) as a file server and
simultaneously for the Internet connection. For that purpose we are
searching for a good free UNIX-type operating system. There are several
possibilities, but we are not familiar enough with most of them to be able
to choose the one that conforms our demands in the best way. And because it
is not so easy to get all of this information on the web pages, we try to
get it directly from the (well informed) technicians of the appropriate
companies and/or organizations. Since Debian GNU/Linux is also in the scope
of our interest, we kindly ask you to provide us with this information. We
would like to know whether this operating system (and which version, if not
all) supports the following features:

NIS (yellow pages)
DNS
automount
PPP
PPP dial on demand
SMTP
POP3
IMAP4
3Com fast ethernet adapter 3C905-TX (or at least any other fast ethernet
card available on the market)

Thank you in advance for your answer! Best regards,

Jozef Bednarik,
CEDO, spol. s r.o.,
Brno, Czech Republic.


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Re: bo-updates packages

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 11:23:33AM +0100, Paul Seelig wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Mitchell) writes:
> > Surely bo-unstable == hamm, so please invest your time in hamm, not
> > something that will be discarded in a few months.
> > 
> Sure, but why invest my time in hamm which will be obsoleted in half a
> year anyway?  While i like updated components i'm rather conservative
> regarding complete system upgrades. For me bo is running fine enough
> but i'd like to use a few features only present in more recent
> versions of Debian software.  What's so bad about being a bit more
> oriented towards a user's perspective?

The problem is that hamm is taking too long already. (Note that this
is my view, not an official one.) There are many, many bugs registered in
the bug system, still several packages which have not been upgraded
to libc6, and other things to do. Spending time compiling packages
for libc5 would be nice, but it does take time away from getting
the next version ready. Further, although some time has already
been spent working out policy for this, it's probably a once off
problem -- it was much simpler to run bo packages on rex, and
rex packages on buzz before that, because there wasn't a significant
underlying change like the libc6 one involved.

So, I think if somebody really wants to run some newer software
(which isn't necessarily stable in our terms), then the choices are:

1. compile it from sources -- ugly, but workable. Even to the extent
   of making your own packages, which I gather youve done.

2. upgrade to the unstable package, and in the case of hamm, install
   enough of hamm to run it. This isn't actually that much;
   new ldso, libc6, new libc5 I think, and some libraries. With such
   a system, you can run libc6 binaries but compilation is done for
   libc5, etc. I have such a system and it works fine.

(3. try to backport the package yourself.)



Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5


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Re: .deb

[Oliver Elphick]

"Eloy A. Paris" wrote:
  >Ben Gertzfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  >
  >: Gigabyte> i was asked if i could used files like Tkdesk from the
  >: Gigabyte> Debian/Linux 1.3.1 and use it on other Linux like
  >: Gigabyte> OpenLinux ?  if so how can i do that ...  TIA .
  >:
  >: Sure. Just install the 'alien' program, available at
  >: http://kite.ml.org/programs/ :)
  >
  >Alien is for the other way around: to use packages from other
  >distributions in Debian.
  >
A binary package is an ar archive file:

   $ ar -t postgresql_6.2.1-3_i386.deb
   debian-binary
   control.tar.gz
   data.tar.gz

A source package should consist of the original source, a diff file and a
dsc file (which lists the other two with check sums and has the
maintainer's PGP signature):

   postgresql_6.2.1.orig.tar.gz
   postgresql_6.2.1-3.diff.gz
   postgresql_6.2.1-3.dsc

If you are installing on another system, you should probably use the
original source file and compile it on the foreign system.  The source
diff file contains the changes needed to make the package compile for
Debian, including changes to the location of configuration files.
You might want to scan the diffs to see if there is anything not
Debian-specific that you would like to adopt.

-- 
Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Isle of Wight  http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver

PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1

Unsolicited email advertisements are not welcome; any person sending
such will be invoiced for telephone time used in downloading together
with a £25 administration charge.



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bo -> hamm

[Rainer Dorsch]

I was wondering, if anybody has a package, which does the upgrade from Debian 
to hamm (probably a simple shell script is sufficient).

If so, I would like to install this script and try the hamm distribution. If 
not, wouldn't it be worth to do it?

Thanks.
-- 
Rainer Dorsch
Abt. Rechnerarchitektur  e-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Uni StuttgartTel.: 0711-7816-215



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Re: bo -> hamm

[Will Lowe]

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Rainer Dorsch wrote:

> I was wondering, if anybody has a package, which does the upgrade from Debian 
> to hamm (probably a simple shell script is sufficient).
It's not really a very scriptable thing,  I think.  Following the HOW-TO
at ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/libc5-libc6-Mini-HOWTO.txt is pretty
painless and works well.

 Will


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||
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|  rivendell[502] [~]> hug me|
|  bash: hug: command not found  |
--


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Re: Postilion Package

[tdale]

On  5 Dec, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On  5 Dic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Dear Debian Developer World,
>> 
>> I have made a debian package for the mail program Postilion.  I then
>> read that one should post ones intentions here so as to avoid a
>> duplicate effort.
>> 
>> So is anyone else working on a debian package for the mail reader
>> Postilion.  If not I intend to.  I have also mailed the author asking
>> for his approval.
> 
> Yes, me. I would have put the package out some time ago, but the author
> asked me to wait until a more stable release (like 0.8a) was released,
> and I did just that: I waited. If you want the package is your, just
> make sure to build it with my latest release of tkstep 8.0, that
> is much faster than tkstep 4.2.
> 
> Ciao and good work.

Yes, I would like to maintain this package.  If that would be OK with
you.  But, I received email from Nic Bernstein this mourning asking
that I not release a package until version 1.0 is out in a month or so.
So, one way or another we must wait.  Would you be able to send me any
work you have done on the package?  I would find it instructive to be
able to compare.

-- 
Dale James Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])


pgpl873SM4J44.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: bo -> hamm

[Santiago Vila Doncel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Rainer Dorsch wrote:

> I was wondering, if anybody has a package, which does the upgrade from Debian 
> to hamm (probably a simple shell script is sufficient).
> 
> If so, I would like to install this script and try the hamm distribution. If 
> not, wouldn't it be worth to do it?

Probably.

There is no such script, as far as I know, but there is a wonderful
tool written by Manoj Srivastava, pkg-order. Using this package I think
it will be very easy to write a "script to upgrade the system".

(BTW: Currently, this would be really more robust than using dselect or
following the libc6-mini-howto).

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Re: bo-updates packages

[Martin Mitchell]

Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Surely bo-unstable == hamm, so please invest your time in hamm, not
> > something that will be discarded in a few months.
> > 
> Sure, but why invest my time in hamm which will be obsoleted in half a
> year anyway?

Wrong. What is your basis for saying this?

> While i like updated components i'm rather conservative
> regarding complete system upgrades. For me bo is running fine enough
> but i'd like to use a few features only present in more recent
> versions of Debian software.  What's so bad about being a bit more
> oriented towards a user's perspective?

Nothing, if you want to you may recompile recent packages for your system.
 
> Well, i prefer to use the few months (pretty much time waiting BTW)
> until final release of hamm to upgrade the relyably stable system i'm
> working with now.  I need software i can use today and can't wait for
> tomorrow to happen.  Hey, Debian is not Microsoft!

I need software I can use today too, and hamm has that software right now.
Thanks to all the other developers for their hard work to build that
software.

Martin.


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Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org (fwd)

[Santiago Vila Doncel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Forwarded message from RMS.

This means we can (and maybe should) start writing


Sources were obtained from

ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/whatever.tar.gz


in our /usr/doc//copyright files for GNU packages, instead of the
old name, prep.ai.mit.edu.

Thanks.

*-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:55:14 -0700
From: Richard Stallman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: question about prep.ai.mit.edu -> ftp.gnu.org

Simple question: Is "ftp.gnu.org" definitely the new preferred name for
"prep.ai.mit.edu"? 

Yes.

Thanks.


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Executable stack problems

[Magossa'nyi A'rpa'd]

Hi!

I've installed a kernel with the executable stack patch. There has been two
programs I have encountered segfaults with(so far). Both problems are gone 
after I set them with chstk.
I believe they were using trampolines (I had intentionally disabled
trampoline usage, and want to strip off the chstk hack on the long run).
I believe we should mandate that all of our packages should avoid executing
the stack.
The problematic packages:
apache-ssl 1.2.0+1.8-2 (the apache-ssl binary)
qmail 1.01-1 (the qmail-lspawn binary)

Setting chstk -e on the former is asking for trouble...

I also want to know what has caused those problems trying execute the path.
I believe that the compiler used to create them vas the wrong version

---
GNU GPL: csak tiszta forrásból


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Re: dpkg-source problem

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Ulf" == Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Ulf> Hello,

Ulf> when I use dpkg-source on an unchanged source tree it complains
Ulf> about "unrepresentable changes". dpkg-buildpackage exits with an
Ulf> error code. Is this a bug or a feature? How can I circumvent it?

Usually, this happens when a binary file (gif files, for
 example) has changed, diff does not know how to process that, and
 things fail. Could you run the command under script and provide us
 with the exact output?

manoj
-- 
 "Allright, nobody move!" "Take him, you fools!  He can only shoot one
 of us!" "You're the one." "Nobody move." Get Smart
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: interesting problem in perl vs perl5-lib\d+

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

make the symlink in the postinst?

manoj
-- 
 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
 not seen. Hebrews XI, 1.
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: perl pre-depends on perl-base (>=5.004.04-2)

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,
>>"Darren" == Torin's Auto-Reply Daemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Darren> So, I didn't follow the policy manual and get consensus for a
Darren> pre-depends in perl.  I wanted to get this package out quickly
Darren> rather than try to wait for consensus on debian-devel.


Far be it for me to condone a violation of the policy ;-), but
 in this case, I happen to agree with the solution, and am willing to
 participate in the after-the-fact consensus generation.

Are there any objections to the pre-depends?

manoj
-- 
 "Go on! Shoot me again! I enjoy it! I love the smell of burnt
 feathers and gunpowder and cordite!" --Daffy Duck, "Duck! Rabbit!
 Duck!"
Manoj Srivastava  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E


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Re: bo-updates packages

[David Welton]

On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 05:37:10PM +1100, Martin Mitchell wrote:
> Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Guess
> > why i proposed to name a directory with libc5 compiled hamm packages
> > "bo-unstable"?
> 
> Surely bo-unstable == hamm, so please invest your time in hamm, not
> something that will be discarded in a few months.

This has already been decided.  Please invest your time in something
other than argueing over its usefulness once again.  

Hamm has priority, obviously, but we have enough developers, and there
are enough of us interested in doing this that it shouldn't be a problem.

Speaking only for myself, my packages are all libc6, and I have
already done several non maintainer releases of packages I feel
comfortable with, to upgrade them to libc6.  

Ciao,
-- 
David Welton  http://www.efn.org/~davidw 

Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org


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Re: RFC: Deb 2.0 testing process

[Brandon Mitchell]

On 5 Dec 1997, Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:

>  Well, I guess just a checklist outlining things from the policy guide
>  is what I had in mind.  Like whether it follows the FSSTND or FHS,
>  there's a copyright statement, compressed man page, menu file with
>  the dwww link and a menu item for X (with semi mandatory icon) if
>  appropriate.

Ok, I see what you mean now.  I was thinking of putting things like this
into a generic checklist for all packages.

>  Hmm.  You seem to be suggesting that the package maintianer submit a
>  checklist for other testers to use?  To ensure that it works
>  elswhere, not just on the build machine.  For that, the standard
>  checklist, then package specific ones I suppose.

Yes, the package maintainer submits the initial checklist since they
should know the most about each package.  Then the maintainer, testers, or
anyone for that matter, has the option of adding to the checklist.  

The reasoning behind this is to make sure the package works on fresh
installs, upgraded installs, and doesn't have any problems when other
packages are installed.

A few examples:
- nedit maintainer mentions nc but the tester gets netcat.
- config on a fresh install is different that an upgrade, like the X11
  library problem we had a while back.
- rplayer may work fine on maintainers system if they have the latest
  bash, but the tester may have an older version and have problems with
  netscape.

These are all old problems that theoretically could be caught with
testing.  The idea being, what works on a maintainers system may not work
everywhere.

For the initial list, I'll probably have them all sent to me.  But once we
get into the swing of things, I'll ask that they submit them to the
testing group so if a tester has an addition to the list, it's easy to
start a discussion.  Also I may not maintain this forever, and I don't
feel like asking for an account on master for the checklist maintainer.

>  I'll watch and see what some more experienced people have to say.

I'm hoping to get more opinions before I start doing this.  Fixing any
problems now is much easier than if we wait until half of the maintainers
have already submitted list.

Thanks for your comments,
Brandon

-
Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   "We all know linux is great... it
PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds



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Re: Intent to package: umich-ldap / WNPP: Dermot Bradley probably not maintaining packages

[Rob Browning]

Dermot John Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Ah I'd missed the bit there about simply renaming the existing tarball
> after extracting the code and before running deb-make. Great, now all my
> updated packages will use pristine source.

You can even just make a symlink with the right name to the original
tarfile.

-- 
Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94  53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30


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Re: Bug: #15573: perl should predepend on perl-base

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Santiago Vila Doncel, in an immanent manifestation of deity, wrote:
>On 4 Dec 1997, Darren/Torin/Who Ever... wrote:
>> Hmm.  A thought as I spell-checked this.  Can you pre-depend and depend
>> on the same package?  perl's control will now look like:
>> ...
>> Pre-Depends: perl-base (>=5.004.04-2)
>> Depends: perl-base (=${Source-Version})
>> ...
>
>This way, dpkg will refuse to install perl until perl-base >= 5.004.04-2
>is installed and configured, but since the only perl-base
>version compatible with perl is exactly ${Source-Version}, it will have
>to install and configure that version, perl-base ${Source-Version}.
>
>Does
>
>Pre-Depends: perl-base (=${Source-Version})
>
>not have the same effect?

Not if I'm interpreting the dependencies correctly.

In your version, every time perl is upgraded, perl-base (for that
version) must be installed and configured before we can upgrade perl.  I
think that takes two separate invocations of dselect.  (warning: I don't
use dselect)

With my version, you only have to have perl-base installed and
configured if there is a danger of Perl not being there, i.e. before 5.004.04-2.
Any other time (5.004.04-3+), perl-base just needs to be installed, not
necessarily configured.  This way folks have to exit and re-enter
dselect fewer times.

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

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AW: libc5

[Michael Meskes]

I think David Engel is working on an interim libc6 release. But it seems
there are quite a lot of packages to be worked on.

Michael

> --
> Von:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Dezember 1997 16:49
> An:   debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Betreff:  Re: libc5
> 
> Michael Meskes wrote:
> > How come this packaged hasn't been updated for a while. Since H.J.
> Lu is
> > adding more and more libc6 compatibility changes I think it makes
> sense to
> > stay up-to-date with libc5, too.
> 
> I haven't heard anything from Helmut Geyer in months, except for a
> message on Sep 24 saying he was back.  (Apparently he wasn't).
> 
> I think it is time to officially orphan his packages, so that they can
> find new maintainers.
> 
> As far as I can tell from the Packages files, this is his current list
> of packages:
> 
> Source glibc: (already taken over)
>   libc6-pic, libc6, libc6-dbg, locales, libc6-dev, timezones,
> libc6-doc
> 
> Source procps:
>   procps, libproc-dev, xproc
> 
> Source libc:
>   libc5-altdev, libc5, libc5-altdbg
> 
> Source fortune-mod:
>   fortune-mod, fortunes
> 
> Package ghostview
> Package lacheck   (needs conversion to libc6)
> Package chos
> Package auctex
> Package xxgdb
> 
> 
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Re: Does it conform our demands?

[Rob Browning]

Jozef Bednarik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Debian supports all of these features you mention in both the current
stable release (1.3), also known as bo, and the upcoming release
(2.0), also know as hamm.  All of the software in our main
distribution is free, and will remain that way (see our policy
documents at www.debian.org for details).

> 3Com fast ethernet adapter 3C905-TX (or at least any other fast ethernet
> card available on the market)

Note that you should probably avoid this card.  Get a DEC tulip based
card instead.  I switched to the D-Link card with no problems.  The
tulip based cards are cheaper and are more compatible with Linux.  The
drivers for the 3Com 3C9xx cards have some serious problems on some
machines, especially if you try to use them at 100MBit.

Oh, and In the future, questions like this should be directed to
debian-user@lists.debian.org rather than debian-devel.

Thanks

-- 
Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94  53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30


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Re: Who's root on Master?

[Martin Schulze]

Eduardo Marcel Macan writes:
> Hello, I need to have my password changed in master, who is in
> charge of maintaining the user accounts there?

I finally got [EMAIL PROTECTED] working.  This alias will
forward mail to the others who have root access to the machines.

Thanks,

Joey
-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  Debian Linux Maintainer  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 / http://www.debian.org/  http://home.pages.de/~joey/


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Re: debian-private archives

[Martin Schulze]

Christian Meder writes:
> as my email is still not added to debian-private (I don't want to bug
> anyone) and it's election time I would like to ask some kind soul to
> send me the archives of the last two months of debian-private (need
> some background material for voting :-)

It would be a good idea if you coult contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
in such a case.

If you still need an archive of debian-private, contact me.


Regards

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  Debian Linux Maintainer  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 / http://www.debian.org/  http://home.pages.de/~joey/


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Re: bo -> hamm

[Dale Scheetz]

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Santiago Vila Doncel wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Rainer Dorsch wrote:
> 
> > I was wondering, if anybody has a package, which does the upgrade from 
> > Debian 
> > to hamm (probably a simple shell script is sufficient).
> > 
> > If so, I would like to install this script and try the hamm distribution. 
> > If 
> > not, wouldn't it be worth to do it?
> 
> Probably.
> 
> There is no such script, as far as I know, but there is a wonderful
> tool written by Manoj Srivastava, pkg-order. Using this package I think
> it will be very easy to write a "script to upgrade the system".
> 
> (BTW: Currently, this would be really more robust than using dselect or
> following the libc6-mini-howto).
> 
Well, there actually is a primative attempt of mine available in the
/upgrades directory of any complete debian archive. It is called DoList.
It was my first attempt at a perl program so it is relatively free of
"perlisms" and very straight forward. It uses dpkg to install, or remove
(depending on tags in the list), packages indicated in a list (from a
pre-prepaired file) in the order that they appear on the list. This script
was used successfully by me to do the "by hand" upgrade portion of both
1.1 and 1.2 upgrades (I was too busy with 1.3 and just did a fresh
install..well, actually several ;-)
There are example lists for the base section that installed those packages
in the proper order. I always intended to create a list for the "standard"
distribution but never found the time.
With Manoj's pkg-order you will not need to worry about ordering your list
by hand (something that wasn't available the first time I did this).

Anyway, take a look at DoList and see if it will do the job.

Luck,

Dwarf
-- 
_-_-_-_-_-_-  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-

aka   Dale Scheetz   Phone:   1 (904) 656-9769
  Flexible Software  11000 McCrackin Road
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL  32308

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Re: Does it conform our demands?

[Michael Meskes]

I have to disagree with Bob on this issue. I had a 3c905 a while back
and at that time the kernel driver (v0.40) had serious problems but
mostly when run on 10Mbit. Now that the 2.0 kernel series ships version
0.46 I have yet to run into a 3c905 related problem. And my machine is
filleserver (samba), databse server (two instances of Oracle), web proxy
(squid) and nameserver (bind). Lot's of traffic and it works like a
charm.

Michael

> --
> Von:  Rob Browning[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Dezember 1997 16:30
> An:   Jozef Bednarik
> Betreff:  Re: Does it conform our demands?
> 
> > 3Com fast ethernet adapter 3C905-TX (or at least any other fast
> ethernet
> > card available on the market)
> 
> Note that you should probably avoid this card.  Get a DEC tulip based
> card instead.  I switched to the D-Link card with no problems.  The
> tulip based cards are cheaper and are more compatible with Linux.  The
> drivers for the 3Com 3C9xx cards have some serious problems on some
> machines, especially if you try to use them at 100MBit.
> 
> Oh, and In the future, questions like this should be directed to
> debian-user@lists.debian.org rather than debian-devel.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94  53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: Does it conform our demands?

[Rob Browning]

Michael Meskes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I have to disagree with Bob on this issue. I had a 3c905 a while back

It's Rob :>

> and at that time the kernel driver (v0.40) had serious problems but
> mostly when run on 10Mbit. Now that the 2.0 kernel series ships version
> 0.46 I have yet to run into a 3c905 related problem. And my machine is
> filleserver (samba), databse server (two instances of Oracle), web proxy
> (squid) and nameserver (bind). Lot's of traffic and it works like a
> charm.

Sure.  I wasn't claiming that some people don't have problems, but
that others do.  If you watch the vortex development list, you'll see
what I mean.  It's one of those YMMV things.

I worked with a machine that would lock up on a daily basis at 10Mb
with the early 0.46 drivers.  It's calmed down with the newest ones,
but it was a big hassle before that.  The tulip cards are cheaper and
better supported.  I'd go with that, and I have both.  Note that I'm
not using them at 100Mbit if it matters.

-- 
Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: libc5

[David Engel]

On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 07:01:01PM +0100, Michael Meskes wrote:
> I think David Engel is working on an interim libc6 release. But it seems
> there are quite a lot of packages to be worked on.
> 
> Michael
> 
> > --
> > Von:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Gesendet:   Donnerstag, 4. Dezember 1997 16:49
> > An: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> > Betreff:Re: libc5
> > 
> > Michael Meskes wrote:
> > > How come this packaged hasn't been updated for a while. Since H.J.
> > Lu is
> > > adding more and more libc6 compatibility changes I think it makes
> > sense to
> > > stay up-to-date with libc5, too.

We are switching to libc6.  I don't see any point in continuing work
on libc5 except for security fixes.  Even if the risk is small, what
do we gain?

> > I haven't heard anything from Helmut Geyer in months, except for a
> > message on Sep 24 saying he was back.  (Apparently he wasn't).

I think it's safe to assume that Helmut is gone (from Debian).  IMO,
even if Helmut were to reappear today, he would have to re-establish
his presence for quite some time beforing being trusted again with
such important packages as libc.

> > I think it is time to officially orphan his packages, so that they can
> > find new maintainers.
> > 
> > As far as I can tell from the Packages files, this is his current list
> > of packages:
> > 
> > Source glibc: (already taken over)
> >   libc6-pic, libc6, libc6-dbg, locales, libc6-dev, timezones,
> > libc6-doc

I am maintaining libc6* until a suitable replacement can be found.
Any volunteers should contact me.

> > Source procps:
> >   procps, libproc-dev, xproc
> > 
> > Source libc:
> >   libc5-altdev, libc5, libc5-altdbg
> > 
> > Source fortune-mod:
> >   fortune-mod, fortunes
> > 
> > Package ghostview
> > Package lacheck   (needs conversion to libc6)
> > Package chos
> > Package auctex
> > Package xxgdb

David
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(972) 234-6400 Richardson, TX  75081


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new kde package

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

new debian versions of kde are available:

beta2-2 is available at :
ftp.inka.de/sites/dungeon/packages/kde-new  libc6
beta2-2.1 is available at :
ftp.inka.de/sites/dungeon/packages/kde-new5 libc5

if you can't find some package required by kde :
look at ftp.inka.de/sites/dungeon/packages, or at
ftp.debian.org mirrors : hamm (libc6) or project/experimental (libc5).

regards, andreas


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debian 1.3.2

[Danny Mashal]

Hi, congratulations on the best Linux project 
out there, I was wondering when will the new debian come 
out?