Sorry for the tardy response, I am mostly on the road for this week and have limited time and access to emails. Some comments below.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 3:54 AM, Joe Brockmeier <j...@zonker.net> wrote: > <snip> > If that was your meaning, I do apologize for misinterpreting what you > said. I do appreciate you understanding that my response was based on an > honest interpretation of what you wrote. </snip> No apologies necessary Joe, I am glad we are on the same page. If anything, I will be more careful in the future in wording my opinion... I can see how it may be interpreted the way you read it. <snip> Just to be clear - you're > vouching that all of Sentry's development is happening in the open, and > Sentry development decisions are not being taken offlist? > </snip> Yes, in my best judgement, I feel the Sentry community is flourishing and very welcoming of interactions with the broader community of users and developers. They happen to be Jira centric and I agree that it may not seem to be as welcoming as a non-Jira centric project. That said, the project's focus is low-level security integration and it is not something that the users interact with directly - which in my opinion naturally fits the Jira centric model. Regards, Arvind Prabhakar On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com> wrote: > The point I'm making about project dysfunction is something I've learned to > expect from projects > that are using inappropriate means to control the project. Any time you > challenge their means of > control, the response you get will indicate whether or not you are barking > up the wrong tree. > The absence of inappropriate feedback is in fact a sign that we are not > gauging things such > as they actually are, but are projecting our own perceptions onto the > project. > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The whole point of the ASF's archiving policy is to ensure these types of > > concerns can > > be examined objectively by others. With jira we have the ability to > drill > > down in considerably > > more detail than we do trawling the email archives, but in either case > any > > objective attempts > > to discover inappropriate conduct will fail to yield much fruit. The > > committers do work fast > > when it comes to repairing bugs they discover, but that doesn't mean they > > are doing things > > in the wrong order. I have yet to see a large patch prematurely applied > > to the repo: the bulk > > of the patches are minor changes that certainly can be worked out hours > > after discovering the > > problem and filing the ticket. > > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Look at what we don't see- signs of dysfunction. Even with this thread, > >> with serious consequences for the podling, > >> nobody is behaving in a territorial or defensive way about the project. > >> The feedback has been very reasonable, > >> respectful of Joe's concerns, and direct. > >> > >> I have a strong suspicion that the core problem here is that the mentors > >> aren't following the commit list, which is > >> where the jira email trail gets sent. Looking there you will see a > >> plethora of examples where tickets, many filed by > >> non-project participants, are being discussed by several project > members, > >> far from the presentation that discussions > >> are happening off-Apache-infra and tickets are being "shut down" without > >> public review. > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> The only thing I might recommend of the podling is to try to leave > >>> low-hanging fruit in jira unpatched for a longer period of time to > allow > >>> outside contributors the ability to participate. Coupled with > identifying > >>> these tickets on the mailing list, that might lead to more outside > >>> contributions. > >>> > >>> I do share the concern that we have several elected committers that > >>> haven't yet advanced to the ppmc level. > >>> Perhaps there's not enough project-level mentoring (as opposed to IMPC > >>> mentoring) going on to bring these newer people along. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> I still consider that hearsay evidence. If you bother to actually > look > >>>> at their Jira you will see the vast majority of tickets opened in the > past > >>>> month remain open. I've spent an hour or so myself investigating > this in > >>>> some detail and turned up nothing- I invite you and others to do the > same. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Nov 3, 2015 11:34 AM, "Joe Schaefer" <joes...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > David, > >>>>> > > >>>>> > The problem with Rich's commentary is that we don't have any solid > >>>>> evidence > >>>>> > to that effect. Certainly not on a systematic level. > >>>>> > All I see is a lot of responsiveness from the team about > >>>>> repair-oriented > >>>>> > tickets, or some mundane task like updating dependencies. > >>>>> > I don't find credible evidence to support the claim that > development > >>>>> is > >>>>> > happening prior to filing a ticket about it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sure. I'm not involved in the community, but have had the above > >>>>> scenario > >>>>> described to me by two different people. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > >
