On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Carsten Haitzler <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:21:30 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> <[email protected]> said:
>
>> 2010/10/27 Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira <[email protected]>:
>> > Don't remove it, please.
>> > There are bugs, but these features are needed by some people.
>> >
>> > Em 27 de outubro de 2010 19:58, Carsten Haitzler
>> > <[email protected]>escreveu:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:35:31 -0300 Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira
>> >> <[email protected]> said:
>> >>
>> >> i so feel like killing off systray again. :) fyi shelf autohide is full of
>> >> holes and problems. it was not implemented solidly to begin with. i'm
>> >> tempted
>> >> to kill it off as a feature just because i couldnt be bothered fixing it
>> >> all
>> >> up. and that reminds me - edge bindings have problems of their own too...
>>
>> The bug there is that the shelf does not get the mouse-out event (as
>> event goes to the child/systray window, then goes to its menu, then
>> off shelf), thus the auto-hide is not triggered.
>
> oh there are other usability issue s- like the fact that it was designed to
> work on mouse in and out on the shelf - this means some section always has to
> be visible. if u dont have a compositor and have shaped windows - like an
> invisible shelf, you will never get a mouse in as the edge of the shelf is
> never actually visible and able to get that enter event. i am sure i grumbled
> about this before and  people who want the feature never fixed it. it should 
> if
> ANYTHING be tied to edgebindings (which is why i mentioned it above). and this
> is why edges are not so easily made "generally bindable" as we need them for
> all sorts of special cases (desktop flip etc.). before desktopflip was the 
> only
> user - but shelf autohide/show should have too - but then it got turned into a
> general thing and lots of problems appeared - like keeping edge bindings even
> if they ONLY binding was to flip desktops and u had a 1x1 virtual desktop 
> setup
> (thus making window borders inaccessible at the edge of the screen even there
> is no need for that screen edge), same with desktop flip and multiple screens
> (edge flip basically can't work as long as u have 2 screens with independant
> desktops to flip - so it should get auto turned off)... and much more. there's
> a lot of specialised if cases based on usage and behavior we just cant do
> nicely with generic bindings.
>
> if someone doesn't go fix all these nasty cases up - i will guarantee you, i
> will eventually, when i get around to it, kill edge bindings, kill shelf
> autohide and restore the old simple stuff e used to have that was actually
> correct and worked for all cases. it turned off the invisible window catchers
> when there was nothing left to catch at an edge and thus made that edge usable
> again for grabbing window borders or other things. if you want an e17 ever
> released you will have to accept the fact that either things are fixed - or
> they are killed. as i disagree with the whole way both of the above have been
> designed and implemented to begin with (as the whole implementation concepts
> are wrong), i will just kill. so it stays broken for now until i get around to
> that... or someone fixes this all up with a LOT of extra code to work right.

ah man, that would be :-(

i hope this is fixed properly.  edge bindings and autohide are
somewhat important to my setup, as i like to have maximum screen real
estate at _all_ times, until i need something; that and i have a
passionate hatred of taskbars :-).

i especially liked corner bindings back in the compiz days to trigger
the scale plugin, allowing me to rapidly switch between many windows.

however, i understand the need to cut that-which-does-not-work-right.
in terms of usability though, i think it does far more _for_ than
against (real estate).

could a specific/permanent object receive the events, then delegate
out to interested/appropriate recipients?  this way the binding never
changes.  pardon my ignorance, i'm from the
python/javascript/DOM/dynamic lang sphere... there are similar
situations that occur when handling events (in particular drag) in JS,
and the solution is to use a short-lived, empty element spanning the
entire screen, to guarantee the mouse never leaves.

C Anthony

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