I know a lot of people are going to disagree with this, but I think GNUstep
needs a display manager for Wayland that's not based on WindowMaker.
WindowMaker is super old and it makes it impossible to build an OSX-like
UI. It'd be better if there was a modern Display Manager similar to
Wayfire with compositing/special effects etc. That also integrates tightly
with GNUstep via Objective-C calls and has a SystemPreferences.app ui for
configuration of behaviour and themes.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 at 03:29, Joseph Maloney <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't believe so.  Shortly after creating the PR I had the same thought,
> it would be nice if I the GTK theme engine could follow the GTK icon
> theme.  I think that would be a better solution than what my PR proposed.
>
> I also had the thought the other day it would be nice if it were possible
> to set different GNUstep icon theme in NSGlobalDomain.plist so one could
> try out different sets of icons without having to fork a theme each time.
>
> Joseph Maloney
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>
> On Friday, July 11th, 2025 at 12:21 PM, Ethan C <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Does the Gtk engine support standard icon themes, like Gtk uses? I feel
> like that'd make it integrate better with users' desktops.
>
> Also, the Gtk engine is not perfect, and it targets Gtk2 (which many
> themes no longer support). I think the better way to achieve this is to
> actually make GNUstep themes for the popular themes (Adwaita 4, Adwaita 3,
> Breeze, elementaryOS, Yaru, Nord, etc).
> On 7/11/25 12:16, Joseph Maloney wrote:
>
> Regarding theming. I made a PR for the GTK engine to integrate Rik icons.
> Combined with GTK themes I think it looks really nice. There are some other
> improvements I would like to make in the future. This doesn't help other
> platforms like Windows and I don't know what that looks like I guess but
> just thought I would bring it up.
>
> https://github.com/gnustep/plugins-themes-Gtk/pull/2
>
> Also McClaren labs has Rik working again:
>
> https://github.com/mclarenlabs/rik.theme.git
>
> I don't know of any other new themes from scratch yet.
>
> Joseph Maloney
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>
> On Friday, July 11th, 2025 at 11:42 AM, Ethan C <[email protected]>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> These are a lot of points that I could expand more on if needed -- my
> general thoughts about the direction of the project. I haven't really
> caught up to the messages in the past month, so maybe some of these have
> already been discussed in depth. But some of these are new topics.
>
> *Swift, SwiftUI, UIKit, and CoreAnimation*
>
> We need to attract current developers in the macOS ecosystem. Simply being
> able to port apps written in the pre-Swift era won't be very helpful -- the
> best apps from that era are proprietary, and nobody is still developing
> apps in the same style so it won't attract contributors very well.
>
> I see many exciting in-progress projects written in Swift and SwiftUI, and
> there's a lot of open-source stuff written for UIKit that would be nice to
> have. How I think we can tackle this:
>
>    - We need native support for libobjc2 in the Swift compiler. There is
>    no way around this; we'd otherwise need to write a preprocessor for Swift,
>    which would involve needing to have a high-quality Swift parser already.
>    The compiler obviously can parse Swift very well, and it has support for
>    objc4 which we can hopefully adapt.
>    - We need to implement the CoreAnimation-AppKit bridge. This will
>    allow us to port AppKit apps written in the 2010s, and will be necessary
>    for Chameleon and SwiftUI.
>    - We revive the Chameleon project
>    <https://github.com/BigZaphod/Chameleon>, so we can implement UIKit on
>    top of AppKit. This requires the CoreAnimation-AppKit bridge. However, it
>    targets iOS 3, so we will have to do lots of work to get it up to iOS 26
>    parity. Perhaps with the amount of people switching to SwiftUI we might not
>    need a full UIKit implementation, however.
>    - We work with the OpenSwiftUI project
>    <https://github.com/OpenSwiftUIProject/OpenSwiftUI> to support
>    SwiftUI. This also requires the CoreAnimation-AppKit bridge if we want to
>    use their current codebase which targets AppKit. They want to also support
>    other platforms, but of course those other platforms will not have the
>    SwiftUI-AppKit bridge, and I think it wouldn't be worth it for us to
>    support SwiftUI if we didn't support the SwiftUI-AppKit bridge.
>
> I originally planned to work on some of these, but I found that they were
> far too difficult for me to work on. I don't think the project stands much
> of a chance if we don't implement these, as the amount of people with
> AppKit experience will go down and down as time goes on.
>
> *Apps to port*
>
> We really need to find apps to port to GNUstep. Porting apps to GNUstep
> will help us find a lot of the pain points that users might face, and will
> show people that GNUstep is useful for more than making NeXT-style apps
> from scratch.
>
> We should probably work on a wishlist on the wiki.
>
> *Packaging*
>
> I'm planning on working on this, because I think the solutions I find will
> be useful for every toolkit without a good packaging story.
>
> I think Conda packaging is probably the best way to target most needs; we
> can work on native packaging later to allow for things that need to
> integrate more closely with the system.
>
> Problems I'll try to solve:
>
>    - There's no way to make installers. It shouldn't be too hard to
>    figure this out, though.
>    - I'll set up a CI to distribute nightly builds of GNUstep, which will
>    make it easier for people to test out bugfixes and new features.
>    - My Conda packages only support GNU/Linux currently. I'll need to
>    make Windows builds -- do we prefer mingw, MSYS, cygwin, or our MSVC+Clang
>    toolchain? I think the MSVC+Clang toolchain is the most widely supported.
>    - I want to support Android, especially once we figure out UIKit. But
>    that's a quite difficult task, I don't know if I can do it. If we can get
>    this figured out it will make it so much easier also to port other
>    non-GNUstep apps to Android.
>
> Also, does anyone else want to try out my current Conda packages? I have
> instructions here:
> https://github.com/ethanc8/gnustep-forge-feedstocks/blob/master/guide.md.
>
> *Accessibility*
>
> Nowadays many commercial users need accessibility; it's often required by
> their customers or by law. I think we should implement the macOS
> accessibility APIs on top of AccessKit <https://accesskit.dev/>, which
> provides abstractions over the major platforms' accessibility APIs and is
> used by most of the Rust GUI toolkits that support accessibility. We'll
> need to disable accessibility when we're not on a platform supported by
> Rust, but I don't think any users will need accessibility on platforms
> without Rust support.
>
> *Website and documentation*
>
> I don't really have any plans for the website, and I think until we can
> have good enough content to put on it we should just make the documentation
> website (gnustep.github.io) be the main website. gnustep.github.io is not
> ready for this yet.
>
>    - We need to have good installation instructions available, which will
>    depend on packaging. In the near term, I will try to get my Conda setup
>    instructions there, and once we have good packaging for other platforms we
>    can add those.
>    - I think we should convert the manuals into Markdown and put them
>    into the "manuals" section of the doc website.
>    - We need to figure out what to put on the homepage of the website.
>    - The Sphinx theme we currently use is not very good. I'd like to
>    write a better one, but this is a low priority.
>
> *Wiki*
>
> I think we should try to migrate the wiki to Miraheze, which provides free
> MediaWiki hosting. This would allow us to not have to worry about
> maintaining the wiki servers or preventing spammers from signing up, and
> with Miraheze's easy sign-up flow it'll be easier for new people to
> contribute. Also, Miraheze keeps up-to-date on MediaWiki versions, which
> will allow us to provide the modern Wikipedia interface and make it
> comfortable for people who've edited Wikipedia or other MediaWiki wikis
> before.
>
> Anyone logged-in can set their theme to whatever they want, so people who
> like the old MediaWiki theme can still switch back to it.
>
> Even if we want to maintain control of our wiki hosting and login process
> (I can see why we'd want that), I think we should still switch to a recent
> MediaWiki version.
>
> *Theming*
>
> Is anyone currently working on a modern-looking theme?
>
> Once this is done, I think we should set it as default and make a lot of
> screenshots using it to post on our website. Also, we can make a gallery of
> high-quality GNUstep applications.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ethan Charoenpitaks
>
>
>
>

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