On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 08:22:23PM +0300, Reco wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 12:58:05PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:14:01PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:24:42AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 05:57:40PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:31:57AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > > > > > > So it boils down to "MTA needs care on a regular basis" and "some > > > blacklist can add your MTA for no good reason". First one is universal > > > (applies to any Internet-facing service), second one can be beat with a > > > creative use of hosting. Also, https://mxtoolbox.com. A non-free > > > service, but a useful one. > > > > > > > Can we be more vague? This is how conspiracy theories spawn. > > What's so vague about "you've got into some blacklist, and they require > some monetary compensation to whitelist you"? These things happen. > Said blacklist does not affect your ability to receive mail, but can > affect sending it.
I was referring to "add your MTA for no good reason". That is vague and really not true. > > > > > > In the old days losing an email was considered unacceptible; > > > > > > It still is, you just have to consider a corporate communications as > > > well. > > > > > > > these days, there is so much junk that false positives are expected > > > > and routine. > > > > > > That haven't changed much in the last 15 years. > > > > How is that to be expected? This all sounds like hear-say but > > did this actually happened? > > Either you filter spam, and accept a certain amount of collateral damage > (i.e. some legitimate mail goes into spam), or you accept anything and > your users are drown in spam and viri (viruses? whatever). Or you try to > find a reasonable in-between and accept that occasional spam letter once > in a while. Surely you agree that it's been this way for a long time. > Sure, I understand this. However as a person I depend on e-mail and I really never had any of these issues. I look at how these heuristic based filter work and it is easy to maintain a form of communication where the likelihood of blocked is low. Pretty much don't do anything marketers do. Do not use binary content. Do not use HTML No links either Avoid explicit words. I could go on. > > > > > Heck, there are even debian > > > > contributors whose personal email domains bounce emails from other > > > > debian contributors. Who knows if they're even aware of that? > > > > Are you aware of one? Really _KNOW_ this to be true? > > No, but I'm not a Debian contributor. I see no reason not to trust > Michael's word on this. > > > > > I somehow doubt that Debian project membership requires to be an expert > > > in any MTA, or to have any system administration skills for that matter. > > > In another words, of course it's not normal, but is something that's to > > > be expected. > > > > Well, yes, > > I block random domains. But doing so is not random. > > I first try to contact the e-mail owner and the admin. But if they do > > no stop sending spam they are banned (usually forever). > > I also block constantcontact and mailchimp, because they are basically > > commercial spamming services and anyone can add anyone on any mailing list. > > I see a certain amount of confusion here. What you're talking about is > receiving mail. An important part of any mail system, sure. > What the quoted sentence refers is sending e-mail. > Sorry I wasn't clear in my text. I absolutely understand We are talking about getting your e-mail out and accepted. I was basically describing the thought process of the receiving side, why you could be ending up being blocked. And how it is mainly your responsibility if you end up in trouble (not only as an e-mail admin, applies to life in general). > So, a Debian contributor Alice sends a private e-mail to a Debian > contributor Bob. Both Alice and Bob use arbitrary e-mail servers, most > likely beyond their control. E-mail bounces, Alice does not get any > meaningful diagnostics, Bob does not get a e-mail. It can happen. > It can happen, you could win the lottery :) Could, Would, if and but. All vague forms of arguing. > > > OTOH I really do not have any issues with my mailservices. I run > > a couple of domains and there were really no issues in the past. > > I am maintaining still the point that being blocked has 99% to do > > with how you run your service. If you are not spamming people you > > also will not end up on a blacklist. No one is really interested > > just to mess with your e-mail if you are not bugging anyone. > > My point exactly. > > Reco > -- Henning Follmann | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com
