On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:24:42AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 05:57:40PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:31:57AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote: > > > > If you setup your DNS properly create SPF an DKIM almost all > > > > providers will accept your email IF (and that's a very big if) > > > > you do not spam. > > > > > > That's a nice idea, but simply not true. You'll be ok right up until > > > you aren't, and as a small site you have no recourse to find out what > > > the problem is. > > > > Such statement is incomplete without some examples. > > Judging from your long history of contribution at Debian project, > > surely you have some that can be shared with the list. > > It's really hard to share specific examples without naming domains, so > no. In general terms, It's almost unheard of to get any kind of > response from the RFC-standard postmaster@ address these days. Most of > the time, the best you can hope for is a bounce (rather than your > message silently going into the recipient's spam box). If you're lucky > the bounce will say something like "sender on blacklist X". If > blacklist X is reasonably well known you can probably verify that the > sender is on blacklist X. If you ask blacklist X why the sender is on > the blacklist you'll get no response. Maybe something misattributed a > spoofed email (relatively few sites actually care about SPF etc so > spoofs are still extremely common), maybe someone hit the spam button > accidently, maybe somebody doesn't like your ISP, maybe they don't > like your country, who knows? At that point you descend into a shady > world of extortion schemes, and need to make decisions about whether > to pay third parties to "certify" your domain to a blacklist.
So it boils down to "MTA needs care on a regular basis" and "some blacklist can add your MTA for no good reason". First one is universal (applies to any Internet-facing service), second one can be beat with a creative use of hosting. Also, https://mxtoolbox.com. A non-free service, but a useful one. > In the old days losing an email was considered unacceptible; It still is, you just have to consider a corporate communications as well. > these days, there is so much junk that false positives are expected > and routine. That haven't changed much in the last 15 years. > Yeah, I've been doing this for a long time--more than 20 years of > dealing with email servers--but I don't really think email in its > traditional form will exist much longer. With all it's disadvantages, SMTP is one of the few examples of successful federated (i.e. - non-centralized) form of Internet communications. The other ones are slowly dying IRC and dead XMPP. So I disagree. They can put all the fancy additions (like SPF, DMARC and DANE) to it, but SMTP has a strong chance to outlive a current generation. > Heck, there are even debian > contributors whose personal email domains bounce emails from other > debian contributors. Who knows if they're even aware of that? I somehow doubt that Debian project membership requires to be an expert in any MTA, or to have any system administration skills for that matter. In another words, of course it's not normal, but is something that's to be expected. Reco
