Dear Martin,

Regarding the professional approach. The SIG voted in favour of the
migration instructions. So as of now they are accepted. I believe if you
want to undo or modify that decision we would need a new issue to undo it.

If that is indeed your wish, could you please put together a diagram or
some other explanatory text that would indicate the alternative you are
suggesting to go along with this issue?

I imagine the conclusion of this issue would be that if that is also a
useful way of migrating (I don't know because I can't picture what you are
suggesting, but I trust very much that it is) then the migration
instructions could present the two alternatives and that would be a very
satisfactory conclusion to the new issue.

It is often the case that different solutions are needed for different
situations.

Best,

George


On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 9:11 PM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I suggest a professional approach to this question:
>
> Please look at issue 442 and 520. Please read carefully the scope note of
> E19.
>
> Temporary aggregates are in no way specific to E13.
>
> In particular for moving objects, but also for exhibition arrangements,
> conservation etc., physically coherent items can participate in any number
> of temporary or permanent aggregates.
>
> In 1998, we followed a presentation how the National Museum in Melbourne
> was completely moved. Vernon made the S/W. Traceability of the temporary
> aggregates was the major issue.
>
> No reason to regard the aggregation of activities as better. My experience
> from creating collection management systems is that documenting temporary
> aggregates is in many cases more reliable. Both solutions should be
> mentioned, but documenting by temporary aggregates should be in our
> teaching program, people stumble over it since decades and it is very
> substantial. E19 scope note could even be enhanced.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Martin
>
> On 10/15/2025 4:40 PM, Robert Sanderson via Crm-sig wrote:
>
>
> Conversely, I support Christian-Emil's proposed migration pattern of using
> an encapsulating event to collect together the attribute assignments. This
> pattern allows the transitive inclusion within further such higher order
> events as well, including the typical museum operations such as
> acquisition, accessioning, conservation, and so on.
>
> Rob
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 5:10 AM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I'd rather suggest to better group the aggregates as single instances of
>> Physical Object, which corresponds to the way of handling of such "multiple
>> items".
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 10/8/2025 1:55 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore via Crm-sig wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>> The Issue 700 is described in
>>
>> https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-700-migration-instructions-for-e13-attribute-assignment-and-subclasses-and-its-properties-plus-their
>> I have created a document in the Google drive,
>> see
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TGR8ccpWSNcj4ZJZdVqxH_ax3x_jhn5neXyRuBh6l9Q
>>
>> with a draft for the migration rule. I put a copy of the draft at the end
>> of this email.
>>
>> Best,
>> Christian-Emil
>>
>>
>> Migration Instructions for  E13 Attribute Assignment, subclasses and
>> (sub)properties
>> In cultural heritage institutions it is common practice to document
>> condition assessment, measurement, classification, observation etc. for
>> groups of objects. This has been reflected in the CRMbase by the
>> quantification many-to-many of the properties P140 *assigned attribute
>> to (was attributed by)* and P141 *assigned (was assigned by)* and their
>> subproperties. From v7.3.1 and on, all instances of of E13 Attribute
>> Assignment (and subclasses) forms a single activity applied to exactly one
>> object and yielding one value or dimension, which prohibits multiple values
>> or dimensions as the objects of one instance of E13 Attribute Assignment
>> (condition assessment, measurement, classification, observation, etc.).
>> After the change one has to replace the single instance of E13 Attribute
>> Assignment or subclasses with an instance of E7 Activity as the grouping
>> event and a new instance of E13 Attribute Assignment or subclasses for each
>> of the objects in question. The grouping instance should hold the
>> information about time, place and actor of the original instance of E13
>> Attribute Assignment and a type indicating the kind of event. Each of the
>> new instances of E13 Attribute Assignment or subclasses should be
>> sub-events, that is connected to the new instance of E7 activity via the
>> property P9 *consists of (forms part of)*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing 
>> [email protected]http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------
>>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>>
>>  Honorary Head of the
>>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>>
>>  Information Systems Laboratory
>>  Institute of Computer Science
>>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>>
>>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>>
>>  Email: [email protected]
>>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list
>>
>
>
> --
> Rob Sanderson
> Senior Director for Digital Cultural Heritage
> Yale University
>
> _______________________________________________
> Crm-sig mailing 
> [email protected]http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>  Honorary Head of the
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>  Information Systems Laboratory
>  Institute of Computer Science
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>  Email: [email protected]
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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