Dear all,
In my opinion we should describe both situations. The migration rule I 
described is not so direct to the change of the quantifications of the E13 
properties but describes what may go on in a laboratory or in a cultural 
heritage institution. The  E13 based one is a model of what is seen from the 
outside e.g. when one sends a box or bag of finds or samples to a laboratory 
and gets a report back.

A new issue dealing with an extension of the migration rule will be a good 
idea. It should be possible to do that by a evote.

Best,
Chrstian-Emil

________________________________
Fra: Crm-sig <[email protected]> på vegne av George Bruseker via 
Crm-sig <[email protected]>
Sendt: torsdag 16. oktober 2025 19:21
Til: Martin Doerr <[email protected]>
Kopi: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Emne: Re: [Crm-sig] HW Issue 700 
migration-instructions-for-e13-attribute-assignment-and-subclasses...

Dear Martin,

Regarding the professional approach. The SIG voted in favour of the migration 
instructions. So as of now they are accepted. I believe if you want to undo or 
modify that decision we would need a new issue to undo it.

If that is indeed your wish, could you please put together a diagram or some 
other explanatory text that would indicate the alternative you are suggesting 
to go along with this issue?

I imagine the conclusion of this issue would be that if that is also a useful 
way of migrating (I don't know because I can't picture what you are suggesting, 
but I trust very much that it is) then the migration instructions could present 
the two alternatives and that would be a very satisfactory conclusion to the 
new issue.

It is often the case that different solutions are needed for different 
situations.

Best,

George


On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 9:11 PM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear All,

I suggest a professional approach to this question:

Please look at issue 442 and 520. Please read carefully the scope note of E19.

Temporary aggregates are in no way specific to E13.

In particular for moving objects, but also for exhibition arrangements, 
conservation etc., physically coherent items can participate in any number of 
temporary or permanent aggregates.

In 1998, we followed a presentation how the National Museum in Melbourne was 
completely moved. Vernon made the S/W. Traceability of the temporary aggregates 
was the major issue.

No reason to regard the aggregation of activities as better. My experience from 
creating collection management systems is that documenting temporary aggregates 
is in many cases more reliable. Both solutions should be mentioned, but 
documenting by temporary aggregates should be in our teaching program, people 
stumble over it since decades and it is very substantial. E19 scope note could 
even be enhanced.

Kind regards,

Martin

On 10/15/2025 4:40 PM, Robert Sanderson via Crm-sig wrote:

Conversely, I support Christian-Emil's proposed migration pattern of using an 
encapsulating event to collect together the attribute assignments. This pattern 
allows the transitive inclusion within further such higher order events as 
well, including the typical museum operations such as acquisition, 
accessioning, conservation, and so on.

Rob

On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 5:10 AM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear All,

I'd rather suggest to better group the aggregates as single instances of 
Physical Object, which corresponds to the way of handling of such "multiple 
items".

Best,

Martin

On 10/8/2025 1:55 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear all,
The Issue 700 is described in
https://cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-700-migration-instructions-for-e13-attribute-assignment-and-subclasses-and-its-properties-plus-their
I have created a document in the Google drive,
see 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TGR8ccpWSNcj4ZJZdVqxH_ax3x_jhn5neXyRuBh6l9Q

with a draft for the migration rule. I put a copy of the draft at the end of 
this email.

Best,
Christian-Emil


Migration Instructions for  E13 Attribute Assignment, subclasses and 
(sub)properties
In cultural heritage institutions it is common practice to document condition 
assessment, measurement, classification, observation etc. for groups of 
objects. This has been reflected in the CRMbase by the quantification 
many-to-many of the properties P140 assigned attribute to (was attributed by) 
and P141 assigned (was assigned by) and their subproperties. From v7.3.1 and 
on, all instances of of E13 Attribute Assignment (and subclasses) forms a 
single activity applied to exactly one object and yielding one value or 
dimension, which prohibits multiple values or dimensions as the objects of one 
instance of E13 Attribute Assignment (condition assessment, measurement, 
classification, observation, etc.). After the change one has to replace the 
single instance of E13 Attribute Assignment or subclasses with an instance of 
E7 Activity as the grouping event and a new instance of E13 Attribute 
Assignment or subclasses for each of the objects in question. The grouping 
instance should hold the information about time, place and actor of the 
original instance of E13 Attribute Assignment and a type indicating the kind of 
event. Each of the new instances of E13 Attribute Assignment or subclasses 
should be sub-events, that is connected to the new instance of E7 activity via 
the property P9 consists of (forms part of)





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--
------------------------------------
 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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--
Rob Sanderson
Senior Director for Digital Cultural Heritage
Yale University


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--
------------------------------------
 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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