>> Joe Landman wrote: >>> Greg Rubino wrote: >>>> I have to say I partially agree with Prentice. I don't know if >>>> prestige directly translates into revenue, but if your a huge company >>> >>> Thats the thesis that I am saying I do not believe to be the case, and >>> Prentis is (as far as I understand it) indicating that he believes this >>> to be the case. >>>
I think my original point was misconstrued, and may have been completely forgotten in the subsequent conversation. Here's another attempt at conveying my original point: Using the big systems at the top of the Top500 list to get $/FLOP wouldn't be a useful exercise, because these systems are usually sold under NDA's and (probably) at a loss to the vendor. I posited that the vendors sell these systems Top500-winning systems at a loss (Roadrunner and Jaguar, in particulat) in exchange for other "intangibles": 1. Gain knowledge through the R&D that goes into building these systems. 2. Collaborating with the computer science geniuses at the customer's site (like the computer geniuses at LANL), which could lead to knowledge transfer. 3.Bragging rights (which I referred to as "prestige" in my original post, which may have lead to confusion). I further said that making it to the top of the list provides valuable media coverage, which equates to advertising for the the system vendor. This seems to be where the confusion/furor started. Other have gone on to argue whether or not that leads to a tangible return on investments or pleases shareholders, but that wasn't really my point. My main point was that it would be difficult or impossible to get the price of these systems. And since they account for so many of the FLOPS in the Top500, they could skew the results of the average $/FLOP in the Top500, or make such a number meaningless, since your average institution can't by such a system under the same circumstance. Now some more analogies that could be akin to adding fuel to the fire: You could equate building such systems to making "the world's largest pizza". I'm sure the small pizza place who makes it losses significant money making it, but it will make the local papers, be in the Guinness book of world's records forever (or until someone else makes a bigger one) and probably be mentioned on his signs, business cards, and menus. Clearly a publicity/advertising stunt. Can't think of any technology transfer that would make a normal sized pizza any better in this case. Car manufacturers often make exotic supercars for the same reason. Remember the Ford GT, or the Mercedes-Benz McLaren SLR? These exotics don't always make money, but the get a lot of press for the manufacturer, bring prestige to the brand, and if the car is sufficiently advanced enough technologically, the respect of competitors. Seldom do these cars turn a profit, but since Ford and Mercedes are large companies, their profits elsewhere subsidize these projects. And of course, the high technology in these cars usually trickles down to more proletarian models over the years. While we're on the topic of cars, here's a perfect analogy: How much $$$ Did Henry Ford II (aka "The Deuce") spend to develop the GT40s, which he built solely to beat Ferrari at Le Mans? -- Prentice _______________________________________________ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
