On May 19, 2010, Wolfgang Draxinger wrote: > Right now I'm implementing my own window manager. Mainly because I'm > not satisfied, what existing WMs provide or the way I have to configure > those WMs which are closely to what I like. And the later unfortunately > don't all implement things you need in a modern desktop.
Excuse me if I point out the obvious irony of someone creating the Nth window manager who then goes on to complain about NIH :) > This is my first of probably a series of rants to come, especially about > what's going on with xdg. I don't think anyone will be very interested in your rants unless the are constructive, reasoned and are paired with effort and action on your part. Please keep that in mind as you offer feedback. > from a running X session. D-BUS won't work here, because SSH doesn't > tunnel it. Oh yes, SSH could be expanded to implement it. But then > there's the next problem: What about connecting from a X server/system > where there's no D-BUS? Yes, those exists, and they're plenty. The answer: use the xembed fall back. Legacy systems without DBus don't get to play as first class citizens in today's desktop world. There's a point where trying to be infinitely backwards compatible comes at the cost of any useful progress in the current day, and we have decided not to play that loser's game. The number of people affected adversely by the xembed system is the overwhelming majority; the number of people who run an app that needs a system tray entry remotely from an xserver with no DBus is vanishingly small. And to repeat: we still have the xembed protocol around as a fallback, even if it does give poor results when used. > And let's face it, the current XEmbed systray does it's job quite well, > and the problem is not that systray is inherently flawed, but that the > programs using it have bugs or don't conform. The problems Marco mentioned in his email are inherent to the design for the XEmbed systray and there is no way around it without completely dropping it entirely and reinventing it from the ground up to be not broken with respect to such things. That you don't see any issue with not being able to govern the visualization of the entries, merge their information with items other than a strictly traditional stystem tray, etc. probably means you're doing something fairly traditional (which is perfectly alright, of course :). For others working on modern systems, it can't fit the bill. See the recent thread about the status notifiers from the fellow working on the OpenGL driven dock. > In this case I impeach xgd/freedesktop having a particular > brainchild, err hammer, named D-BUS and now the people involved try > doing about everything using that. There's nothing wrong with it per > se, but using it for inter X-client communication is just wrong. We got > ICE and ICCCM for that. Use it, it exists for a long time. From the same project that birthed the Status Notifier Items: we do use it where it makes sense. > D-BUS was introduced to have a concise system for IPC between system > and user session processes, or user processes not already running > within an environment, where a standard means of communication exists. That's part of it. DBus is also there for communicating between applications running even in the same session. It's more expressive, easier to work with and offers various useful features like introspection. > Some of the (proposed/draft) specifications on FreeDesktop.org are > highly redundant and some parts of their design have been deliberately > abandoned in existing specifications for good reason. I agree that we need to continue to work on, and in some cases re-work, the specificaton on fd.o. I hope you'll join, productively and constructively, in helping us achieve that. Thanks ... -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks
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