again a muttal. Your ote i extracted. YOU NEVER ANSWERED WHAT IS GOTRA? i WROTE A BOOK IN THESE COLUMNS YOU NEITHER REAd OTHERS NOT READ ON YOUR OWN SONDA BUDDIYUIM ILLAI PIRA BUDDIYUM ILLADHA JADAM
On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 at 11:31, gopala krishnan <[email protected]> wrote: > Mr Rajaram, > > You are repeating what is wrote by Mr. Arun Mohan, a well read writer. > Read fully the answer before reacting. > Gopalakrishnan > > On Saturday 9 August, 2025 at 11:20:41 am IST, Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > My note- I found some good information in this answer appeared in Quora. > Of course for one or two members there can be nothing in this answer. > Their opinions are theirs. Sometimes one member may copy paste pages with > irrelevant > matter or same matter as response. > > after the muttal acknowledging that he is so and so who copy paste, > without understanding anything but accusing others who knew better I need > not write ,unless needed some one. Let him know what is gotra? Even west do > not have gotra; marumakkaattayam has no caste as brahmin at all as she > delivered unaware of caste etc. Caste is from Y chromo and not X Gopala > has to travel alot so let him shut his sutters KR > > -- > > On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 at 10:59, 'gopala krishnan' via Thatha_Patty < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Why does some Kerala Hindus not have Gothram?-Forward > > Answer by Arun Mohan ,Lives in Kerala, India (2016–present)Feb 22 > > Some Hindus in Kerala don’t believe in Gothram tradition as seen elsewhere; > > *Gothram system is generally a concept prevailing among majority of upper > caste Hindus in general across India.* In a simplistic term, it means > lineage or the source of origin of a community/group of people. > > Traditionally it is a Brahminical concept, i.e., it is something > Brahminical communities originally try to identify with, during the Vedic > era. Post Vedic era, other upper caste communities also started identifying > with Gotrams as like Brahmins. > > As per Hindu belief, Lord Brahma, the Creator, created 7 sages out of his > wisdom. So as from his vices, born- Daksha, who became the Prajapati or > lord of universe. *The daughters born to Daksha were married to the 7 > sages or Saptarishis who were now given task to create humans to populate > the world.* > > My note- All daughters were NOT married to Sapatharshies. Thirteen were > married to sage Kashyapa,27 were married to moon God and one daughter > Sati was married to God Siva. > > So these 7 sages started creating humans thro’ their unions with their > wives. *These children now started identifying themselves with lineage of > their father, thus formed the Gotras.* > > One essentially features of Gotra is its patrilineal lineage. Every > Gotras tracks its origin to the sage from which that group of people > originated. So it could either one among 7 sages or by their lineage. > > In this world, the humans could be either of one of the 7 gotras. > > > > 1. Vasishtthan, 2. Kaasyapan,3. Athri,4. Jamadagni,5. Gauthaman,6. > Viswaamithran,7. Bharadwaajan. > > Apart from these main 7, gotras can be formed by another set of immortal > humans who were deemed to be great sages by blessings of the Gods. These > gotras are slightly inferior to the original, but still, it can be also a > gotra > > 1. Deepthimaan,2. Gaalavan,3. Parasuraman,4. Kripan,5. Dronan,6. Vyaaghan, > and7. Rishyasrngan. > > As per belief, these 7 sages are likely to become next Saptarishis, once > this universe we live in gets destroyed and life evolves out of new > universe elsewhere. > > The concept of Gotram in Vedic era, was to understand the source of > knowledge and wisdom. Each Rishi has his own specific domain of knowledge > and he has to transmit that knowledge of his to generations down the lane. > *So, > each gotram was specialized with specific knowledge associated with that > rishi. So, due to this basic concept, Gotra system originally was limited > to Brahmin community.* > > Other communities track their origin to different gods and deities > respectively. *For example, Kshatriyas track their origin not from 7 > Rishis, rather mostly from Vedic Gods like Sun, Moon, Fire and Snakes.* > > As belief, the Kshatriya dynasty originated from Manu, the first Human > born out of Sun God- Surya Deva. So, the largest chunk of Kshatriyas > originated from Sun Dynasty. Then next set originated from Chandra (Moon > God) thro’ its relationship with Thara (Stars). But their offspring was > Budha (Mercury) who was born in cosmic world, thereby not a Human, rather a > celestial being. Budha interestingly married to daughter of Manu- Ila who > was a lady at the time of birth, but due to a curse, she became both Man > and Lady at the same time (she can change sex at will as she is both Male > and Female). Ila in her female form, had sex with Budha in the earth to > have a male human child- Puruvas, thro’ which Chandravamsha dynasty > originated. > > So as Agni - fire god, married a human lady- Sudarshana, daughter of Nila > Maharaja and thus founded Agni Dynasty. I will talk about Naga story later > for a specific reason. > > So Kshyatriyas track their origin to these gods, so naturally they didn’t > have a Gotra concept. However post Vedic period, Kshatriyas started > asserting their Gotra to claim themselves within higher Brahmanical order. So > they started associating their dynasties with one among 7 sages thro’ > legends and myths. > > Vaishyas track their Gotras mostly associated with Vishwakarma and other > demi gods. Some of the Vaishaya community track their Gotras to Kshayapa > primarily because Kshyapa married 13 wives, some of them are reptiles, > birds, animals etc which bore different castes associated with > animalistic qualities. > > Shudras on other hand has no Gotras or any source of origin, rather mostly > born as savages. > > Irrelevance to Kerala > > > > Kerala is one of the very few states in India, that do not practice the > concept of Gotra by some Hindus. If you ask any Malayalees about Gotrams, > they will look clueless to each other. > > This is primarily because most of the upper caste Hindus (barring > Nampoothiris and Kerala iyers ) practises *unique system of Matrilineal > lineage,* by which children inherit mother’s lineage, not fathers. > > I have written a detailed answer on this-Arun Mohan's answer to What is > Sambandham in Kerala? > > *Until 1920s, Kerala’s upper caste Hindu society didn’t accept the > tradition of marriage,* husband-wife concept or even fatherhood concept > due to the unique system of Sambandham traditions, making the whole > paternal side irrelevant for majority of caste Hindus. *Everything is > connected to mother’s side and lineage of every male moves via nephews and > niece, not own children.* > > This means the very concept of Gotra has no relevance at all as it track > origins to paternal lineage, while upper castes in Kerala track their > origin thro’ Maternal lineage, not paternal lineage. > > Even though today Kerala has moved to standard family culture and indeed > became more patriarchal society, majority of the family law concept among > caste Hindus are still matrilineal. For example, a child’s caste among > so-called upper caste Hindus is determined by mother’s caste, not father’s > caste and all customs associated with mother’s family is imbibed to > children, not father’s side. > > When I say this, don’t be under expectation, almost all Hindus follow > Matrilineal customs, as only erstwhile upper castes Hindus follow it, while > majority of so-called lower castes were historically patrilineal. But the > very basic concept of Gotram is more of upper caste concept, not lower > caste. So they lower castes never had Gothram at very first place. > > > > Which communities do have Gothram? > > Two communities in Kerala do have Gothram tradition > > Nampoothiris:- Being a Vedic society that practises original Vedic > traditions. So, they do have a Gotra, majority being Bharadwaj in general. But > Nampoothiris have a problem. One the elder member of the family marry a > Nampoothiri lady. Rest no other man in the family were allowed to marry > Namboothiri ladies. This means only one set of family members have a clear > lineage, rest don’t require. Due to which, its relative less value even > among Nampoothiris. They use this only to define who all can become > Yajnadipatis (Master sacrificer) or max for some marriage purposes. For > no other reasons, they don’t require this Gothra concept > > Ambalavasi- Not Ambalavasis have Gotram. *Some among them follows > Brahminical concepts and they also define a Gothram, but interesting they > mostly associate with Vishwamitram Gothra concept which is very rare across > India*. This is limited mostly to Pushpaka communities, rather others. > Again, like Nampoothiris, it has very limited value in society, at best > checked for marriages > > Nairs > > The biggest upper caste community in Kerala are Nairs. Nairs are not > single caste community, rather an umbrella term to define more than 200 > sub castes of similar concepts. > > Nairs don’t have a gothra, but by basic definition, Nairs believe they > hail from Naga dynasty, ie they are descendants of Vasuki, the snake king. > > Vasuki is son of Kadru and Kashyapa, thus Vasuki by concept belongs to > Kshayapagotram. But the problem is that, Vasuki and entire Naga (Snake > dynasty) don’t consider as lineage of Kashyap, rather they identify thro’ > their mother- Kadru- Naga Mata. Snake Dynasty by belief is Matrilineal, so > they too have mother’s lineage as primary form. Due to this, Naga dynasty > originates thro’ Kadru, not Kshayapa. > > > > This belief has ingrained in minds of Nairs, where they don’t see anything > associated with Father’s side, rather always see their lineage thro’ > Mother. So, despite of being Naga dynasty, they don’t acknowledge them as > Kshayapa gotram > > So what about others without Gothram > > Well, in Kerala tradition, all upper caste communities are identified > socially thro’ their Maternal dwelling unit called Tharavad. The mother’s > original home is called Tharavad (Thaiveedu as its original known, meaning > Mother’s House) > > Since lineage is identified through’ Mother, her original home is what > defined as Tharavad and every member of that family associate with that > socially. > > For ritualistic purposes, every single Hindu in Kerala is associated with > the Birth star they were born into. In Kerala system, Birth star (Janma > Nakshtram) has a very important role. The presiding star at horizon when > one takes birth is defined as Birth star (there are 27 stars and each star > has certain time period when it appears on the horizon which is calculated > as per Panchangam). Due to this belief, every Hospital and medical staff > have to mandatory record the time of birth (which existed even in past when > deliveries were done by midwives) and birth star will be determined. > > *My note- For nairs, there is no thithi, star is considered for auspicious > and in auspicious purposes (Bali Tharpanam)* > > > > 27 Nakshtras and its position in Zodiac sign > > This birth star will be quoted for any poojas or rituals in any Kerala > temples. No one will ask for any gotra, rather birth stars are always > checked in Kerala temple. To do any pooja, one must say their Birth star. > Even Birthdays in Kerala are calculated on basis of Birth star occurrence > in respective Malayalam month, so that there is no fixed date as such. For > example, if I was born in Anizham star during the month of Kumbham, my > Birthday will be always on Anizham star day in Malayalam month of Kumbham. > > The Kings of Travancore were always addressed thro’ their Birth star > basis, like Swati Thirunal (denoting Swathi/Chothi star) or Revathi > Thirunal or Pooyam Thirunal or Vishakam Thirunal. > > > > Once someone dies, the birth star reference will end and replaced with the > concept of Death star (the star at horizon when someone died). So for all > anniversaries, all funeral related rites, its Death star (Adhiyanakshatram) > is quoted. > > So in Kerala context, we talk Mother’s house name (Tharavad) + Birth Star > (Janma Nakshtram) as primary method of identifying one person > traditionally, not Gothra. > > My note- I found some good information in this answer appeared in Quora. > Of course for one or two members there can be nothing in this answer. > Their opinions are theirs. Sometimes one member may copy paste pages with > irrelevant > matter or same matter as response. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Thatha_Patty" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/23288509.870770.1754717270012%40mail.yahoo.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/23288509.870770.1754717270012%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqreuDXqR-p49zW%2BYd9AWV4Kbd%2BLwWBsSvqc31TMcPscA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZoqreuDXqR-p49zW%2BYd9AWV4Kbd%2BLwWBsSvqc31TMcPscA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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