PUN WITH THE PROBABILITY AND PREPONDERANCE OF PROBABILITY OF GOD IS OR NOT
IS NOT KNEW BUT DOES EXIST SINCE CHAARAWAKA RISHI TIMES WHO WAS THE FIRST
KNOWN ATHEIST. ATHEIST IS A PERSON WHO BELIEVED IN "NOW" :IN-PRESENTI"
Many atheists have believed that if GOD did exist, then he will not be so
cruel enough, to make people suffer so much, so does not exist or even if
existed, he does not need such GOD. Science says that belief in GOD arose
only because of fear in oneself on an unknown factor of a mystery. But
science also says that unless evidenced factually and by experiments,
theory of truth or fact will not be accepted jence the existence of GOD is
denied.
Mundaka Upanishad 1.1.1-2 reveals how Lord Brahma as the first recipient of
Vedic knowledge subsequently passed it down to his sons:
“Brahma was the first among the Devas, the creator of the universe, the
protector of the world. He taught the knowledge of Brahman, on which all
knowledge rests, to his eldest son Atharva. That knowledge of Brahman which
Brahma taught to Atharva, Atharva taught to Angira in ancient days; and he
taught it to one of the Bharadvaja family by name Satyavaha; and Satyavaha
taught to Angiras the knowledge so descended from the greater to the less.”
Verse 1.1.5 Mundaka upanishad
तत्रापरा ऋग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः सामवेदोऽथर्ववेदः शिक्षा कल्पो व्याकरणं निरुक्तं
छन्दो ज्योतिषमिति । अथ परा यया तदक्षरमधिगम्यते ॥ ५ ॥
tatrāparā ṛgvedo yajurvedaḥ sāmavedo'tharvavedaḥ śikṣā kalpo vyākaraṇaṃ
niruktaṃ chando jyotiṣamiti | atha parā yayā tadakṣaramadhigamyate || 5 ||
5. Of these, the Apara is the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sama Veda, and
the Atharva Veda, the siksha, the code of rituals, grammar, nirukta,
chhandas and astrology. Then the para is that by which the immortal is
known.
Shankara’s Commentary:
Of these, what Apara vidya is, is explained. Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama
Veda, and the Atharva Veda, these four Vedas, the siksha, the code of
rituals, grammar, nirukta, chhandas and astrology, these six angas (of
Vedas), all this is knowledge called Apara; now, knowledge called Para is
explained. It is that by which the “immortal” as hereafter described is
reached; for, the root gam, with adhi before it, generally means reach. Nor
is the attainment of the highest, different from the sense of knowledge.
The attainment of the highest is merely the removal of ignorance. They mean
the same thing. It may he asked how that Vidya could be called para and a
help to emancipation, if such Vidya be excluded by the Rig Veda, etc; for,
the Smriti says “Those Smritis which are excluded by the Vedas, etc.” It
will become unacceptable, because it sees wrongly and leads to no good
results; and again the Upanishads will become excluded by the Rig Veda,
etc., but if they are included in the Rig Veda, etc., a separate
classification is useless. How then can it be called para? The objection
has no force; for by the term “Vidya” is here meant the knowledge of a
subject; by the term “Para vidya” is meant primarily in this context, that
knowledge of the immortal which could be known through the Upanishads and
not the mere assemblage of words in them; but by the term vidya is always
understood the assemblage of words forming it. As the immortal cannot be
realised by a mere mastery of the assemblage of words without other
efforts, such as the approaching a preceptor and spurning all desires,
etc., the separate classification of the knowledge of Brahman and its
designation as Para vidya are proper.
This knowledge was then split into two, namely para (knowledge of
paramatman) and apara (which deals with the means and the results of good
and bad actions). From Mundakaka Upanishad 1.1.5 it appears that the
primary vedas are apara as they are all to do with the rituals of religion
and hence they mainly only glorify devas such as Agni, Indra and others
with hymns and prayers:
“Of these, the Apara is the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sama Veda, and
the Atharva Veda, the siksha, the code of rituals, grammar, nirukta,
chhandas and astrology. Then the para is that by which the immortal is
known.”
The Supreme Lord has given the primary vedas which are apara so that
through those hymns and rituals towards various devas (who look after
various aspects of universal affairs) mankind can obtain material benefits.
This category of the vedas do not discuss self realisation and God
realisation but it provides a great start point from which mankind can
accrue good karma and gradually elevate themselves from the rituals of
religion then rise to the platform of gyana (through study of the
Upanishads), dhyana (meditation) and then bhakti which is total surrender
to the Absolute Truth once spiritual knowledge fully matures. The Vedas are
vast but offer systematic learning as they cater for mankind in all stages
of their spiritual journey. But as Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita 15.15, the
purpose and end goal of the Vedas is ultimately to attain Him as the
Absolute Truth: “I am seated in everyone’s heart, and from Me come
remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be
known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the
Vedas”
So, knowledge of the Vedas have ultimately been passed down the chain in
disciple succession beginning with God to Brahma and then to his sons and
various sages throughout ancient history. THEY ARE NOT MAN MADE as per some
bogus atheistic theories which undermine the divine nature of the Vedas. In
this way, the ancient Vedas were passed down orally in disciple succession
to sages and their descendants through hearing. Hence, they are also
described as “sruti”, meaning, “that which is heard (in disciple
succession)”. But later, around 5,000 years ago, they were compiled into
written form for the first time by Vyasa deva and his disciples. The Vedas
constitute the means of receiving knowledge about the Absolute Truth and
descend directly from the Absolute Truth and not from any human. After
Srila Vyasadeva divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and
Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions, some
which were named after those disciples. However, they simply documented
knowledge they had received in disciple succession without changing
anything and for that reason the Vedas are the words of God and not
mentally concocted.
Thus, the origin of Vedas was attributed to as only a
manifestation from the Paramatma the Brahmam, and right from Brahma
happened to discover one from another as a Sruti. Hence, the truth of the
Vedas were that it is discovered as science is.
There are even detailed discription of seven tributaries of
saraswati in vedas, namely Suprava, Kanchanakshi, Visala, Manorama,
Oghavati, Surenu, and Vimalodaka. Among all the river mentioned in vedas,
only saraswati is not anywhere to be found . Whereas, in the vedas , it is
mentioned, saraswati to be fiercest and mightiest/largest river of all .
Archeological evidence on the basis you mentioned, points to some form of
river system flowing in that area, mainly around hakra. It can also be
pointed towards the ice age melting period roughly 10,000- 15,000 BCE ,on
Pleistocene epoch. So, saraswati river can theoritically be stated to be
flowing rougly 10,000 years ago, and based on what the vedas say about
saraswati river, vedas too must be as old as saraswati river if not even
more older. 2. Also, Other physical evidence of the Vedic Age is clay
inscriptions from the Harappan Civilization. There are monuments and
statues as well something like a yogi meditating and shiva statue which can
date to be more than 3000 BC back.
Pramaana (means of knowledge) has to satisfy three properties.
Novelty: The knowledge revealed should be unique.
Non-negotiability: The knowledge revealed should not be negatable via other
means of knowledge.
Utility: The knowledge revealed must be useful .
These are called anadhigatam, abaadhitam, phalavad respectively. Of these,
utility is secondary, while the other two are primary.
{DOES NOT SCIENCE ALSO SAY SIMILARLY?}
Since Veda is a Pramaana, it should satisfy these characteristics with
respect to any of its revelations. For instance, consider the knowledge
gained from Veda about punarjanma, or rebirth. This knowledge is gained
from the Veda. It is novel, it is not revealed through other pramaanas
(either pratyaksha (sensory inputs) or pratyaksha based logic (anumaana)),
and it is also not proved or disproved via other pramaanas, thus it is also
non-negatable.
Why do we trust this piece of knowledge? If one wants to verify any
piece of knowledge gained via a pramaana, one has to consult that same
pramaana alone for the verification also. For instance, suppose one sees a
red flower. Another person comes and says that “this is not red, but rather
a green flower. Something is wrong with your eyes”. Then this person has to
once again get his eyes checked, make sure he is seeing the object
properly. He has to use his organ of sight again. His other organs are not
useful in that regard. Thus knowledge gained through eyes are verifiable
through the eyes only, not via other means. Similarly, any sound heard can
be verified once again through the hearing organ only. This is the
characteristic of non-negatability. There is no way to check or verify a
pramaa(knowledge) without using the corresponding pramaana (means).
Another important characteristic of verifiability is
repeatability. This refers to the fact of any number of people who use the
same means of knowledge in the same proper way get the same exact
knowledge. This is known as vastutantram , the characteristic of a
knowledge to be “non-subjective”, i.e., repeatable, devoid of dependency on
the individual idiosyncracies. This characteristic too is the nature of the
Veda. Anyone who interprets the Veda according to Mimaamsa cannot miss the
fact that there is punarjanma for the jiva. All these properties, novelty,
non-negatability, utility, and non-subjectivity (or repeatability), are
common to Vedanta portion of the Veda also (Upanishads). The revelation of
the Vedanta is Atma jnaanam, i.e., that “The individual and the universal
are one”, “I am all”, “What I desire is not different from me”, “Ishwara, I
and the world are one and the same”. This is
Novel: There is no other pramaana except Vedanta which reveals this
information.
Non-negatability: This information is not falsified by any other pramaana
including logic (how and why this is true are the purpose of study of
Vedanta).
Useful: It is useful because it puts an end to all emotional sufferings in
the person who understands it, as well as ending the cycle of birth and
death.
Non-subjective: Across time, everyone who understands this properly comes
to the same conclusion – “I and the world and the Lord are not different,
but one only”.
Therefore, the Veda and hence the Vedanta function as Pramaana for Atma
jnaanam.
Views differed: Mundaka Upanishad says that Rig Veda, Yajur
Veda, Sama Veda and Atharva Veda are lower knowledge, while knowledge of
brahman is higher knowledge.
Krishna in Bhagavad Gita says:
2.42-43 Those with limited understanding, get attracted to the flowery
words of the Vedas, which advocate ostentatious rituals for elevation to
the celestial abodes, and presume no higher principle is described in them.
They glorify only those portions of the Vedas that please their senses, and
perform pompous ritualistic ceremonies for attaining high birth, opulence,
sensual enjoyment, and elevation to the heavenly planets.
2.44 With their minds deeply attached to worldly pleasures and their
intellects bewildered by such things, they are unable to possess the
resolute determination for success on the path to God.
2.45 The Vedas deal with the three modes of material nature, O Arjun. Rise
above the three modes to a state of pure spiritual consciousness. Freeing
yourself from dualities, eternally fixed in truth, and without concern for
material gain and safety, be situated in the self.
Question: In these verses above, is the Bhagavad Gita not fully accepting
the authority of the Vedas? In case these specific verses are going
against authority of Vedas, then how can scriptures be ordered in a
hierarchy of authoritativeness? (i.e. do we believe what the Vedas say or
if the Gita is against the Vedas, then do we believe the Gita and the same
goes for any other scriptures as well).
Now the question would arise for those who read these in depth:
DID ALL THE SRUTI AND SMRITHI CAME SIMULTANEOUSLY/ IF SO WHY IT ISS SAID
THAAT THE OLDEST IS RIG VEDAM AND THE BHAVISHYA PURANAM WAS THE LAST?
Before answering this question, we shall decide the question that
WHETHER THE GRAVITATIONAL FORCE CAME INTO BEING ONLY AFTER THE VERSE IN RIG
VEDAM OR NEWTON LAWS OF MOTION AROSE OR DID EXIST ALREADY? YES SIR; ALL THE
FORCES AAND THE SCIENCE EXISTED ALREADY; THAT WAS THE EXCLAMATIONS OF THE
NASADIYA SUKTAM IN THE RIG VEDAM; WHO KNOWS? SAMSKRITHA VERSE MADE IT CLEAR
THAT, “NOTHING CAN COME OUT OF NOTHING; AND FOR THINGS TO COME OUT SOME
THING SHOULD EXIST ALREADY. SCIENCE ALSO SAYS THE SAME THING; MATTER SHOULD
HAAVE EXISTED OR ELSE FROM NOTHING MATTER COULD HAVE COME OUT. So, the
knowledge ought to have existed already; if existed it iss ought to have
been the creation of someone; and thus THAT SOMEONE should also have
existed prior to the knowledge and the intelligence and without
intelligence, knowledge the VID could not have come out at all?
Then the Brahmam as per Nasadiya suktham should have existed as
intelligence; and the intelligence must have created all as additional
matter from the matter intelligence so that all matter were pre-existed.
All matter pre-existed; Newton found aa little; and after a lapse of
periods, and after so much developments, E=MC2 was found as quantum which
even then remained incomplete; and quantum mechanics was developed; and
still the full blow out is incomplete as of date. But Newton was earlier to
ALBERT EINSTEIN AND EARLIER TO MODERN QUANTAA SCIENTISTS IN THE TIME LINE.
BUT ALL EXISTED EARLIER BUT DISCOVERED ONLY IN CHAIN OF TIME BY VARIIOUS
PERSONS. SO TOO THERE WERE 356 RISHIS WHO WERE NOT CONTEMPORARY BUT BELONGE
TO SEVERAL GENERATIONS IN THE IME LINE. AND ALL THOSE RISHIS WHO DISCOVERED
THE VERSES OF RIG VEDAM WERE EARLIER TO OTHERS WHO TAUGHT TO THE LARTTER
AND WHO HAPPENNNED TO DISCOVER THHE SAMA VBEDA KRISHNA YAJURVEDA SUKLA
YAJURVEDA AND ATHARVA VEDA OF THE ATHARVAN WHO THOUGH WAS IN BRAHMA TIME
WROTE IT ONLY LATER IN THE TIME LINE. EXISTENCE ISS TRUTH; EFFECTIVE
IMPLEMENTATIONS ARE FACTS; BOTH TOGETHER REVEAL THE TIMELINE AS SENIORS AND
JUNIORS. ALSO THE EXISTENCE IS ALSO EVIDENCED AS NOTHING CAN COME OUT OF
NOTHING EVEN IF IS AN IOTA OF CELL FROM WHICH DARWIN WRONGLY PRONOUNCED HIS
THEORY OF EVOLUTION WITHOUT APPLYING THE QUESTION, FROM WHERE THAT IOTA
CAME. BUT WHEN THE SAME QUESTION HAD TO BE APPLIED FOR THAT BRAHMAM-FROM
WHERE EXISTENCE CAME-RIG VEDA SAYS THAT WHO KNOWS? AND EVEN THE BRAHMAM IS
NOT AWARE OF IT AS AN ANSWER, CONFIRMING THE EXISTENCE IS IMMORTAL ONLY
BECAISE OF THAT AS MAATTER WITHOUT LIFE IS. Para and Apara words are thus
meaningful.
Mahabharata quote: SECTION CXLII "Yudhishthira said, 'If that which is
so horrible and which like falsehood should never be an object of regard,
be cited (as duty), then what act is there from which I should forbear? Why
also should not robbers then be respected? I am stupefied! My heart is
pained! All the ties that bind me to morality are loosened! I cannot
tranquillise my mind and venture to act in the way suggested by you.'
"Bhishma said, 'I do not instruct thee in respect of duty, taught by
what I have heard from the Vedas alone. What I have told thee is the result
of wisdom and experience. This is the honey that the learned have gathered.
Kings should gather wisdom from various sources. One cannot accomplish his
course through the world with the aid of a morality that is one-sided. Duty
must spring from the understanding; and the practices of those that are
good should always be ascertained, O son of Kuru! Attend to these words of
mine. Only kings that are possessed of superior intelligence can rule,
expecting victory. A king should provide for the observance of morality by
the aid of his understanding and guided by knowledge derived from various
sources. The duties of a king can never be discharged by rules drawn from a
morality that is one-sided. A weak-minded king can never display wisdom (in
the discharge of his duties) in consequence of his not having drawn any
wisdom from the examples before him. Righteousness sometimes takes the
shape of unrighteousness. The latter also sometimes takes the shape of the
former. He who does not know this, becomes confounded when confronted by an
actual instance of the kind. Before the occasion comes, one should, O
Bharata, comprehend the circumstances under which righteousness and its
reverse become confused. Having acquired this knowledge, a wise king
should, when the occasion comes, act accordingly, aided by his judgment.
The acts he does at such a time are misunderstood by ordinary people. Some
persons are possessed of true knowledge. Some persons have false knowledge.
Truly ascertaining the nature of each kind of knowledge, a wise king
derives knowledge from them that are regarded as good. They that are really
breakers of morality find fault with the scriptures. They that have
themselves no wealth proclaim the inconsistencies of the treatises on the
acquisition of wealth. Those who seek to acquire knowledge for the object
only of carrying their sustenance by it, O king, are sinful besides being
enemies of morality. Wicked men, of immature understandings, can never know
things truly, even as persons unconversant with scriptures are unable in
all their acts to be guided by reason. With eyes directed to the faults of
the scriptures, they decry the scriptures. Even if they understand the true
meaning of the scriptures, they are still in the habit of proclaiming that
scriptural injunctions are unsound. Such men, by decrying the knowledge of
others proclaim the superiority of their own knowledge. They have words for
their weapons and words for their arrows and speak as if they are real
masters of their sciences. Know, O Bharata, that they are traders in
learning and Rakshasas among men. {KR: SORRY IF IT REMINDS SOME OTHER
PERSON} By the aid of mere pretexts they cast off that morality which has
been established by good and wise men. It has been heard by us that the
texts of morality are not to be understood by either discussion or one's
own intelligence. Indra. himself has said that this is the opinion of the
sage Vrihaspati. Some are of opinion that no scriptural text has been laid
down without a reason. Others again, even if they properly understand the
scriptures, never act according to them. One class of wise men declare that
morality is nothing else than the approved course of the world. The man of
true knowledge should find out for himself the morality laid down for the
good. If even a wise man speaks of morality under the influence of wrath or
confusion of understanding or ignorance, his deliverances go for nothing.
Discourses on morality made with the aid of an intelligence that is derived
from the true letter and spirit of the scriptures, are worthy of praise and
not those which are made with the help of anything else. Even the words
heard from an ignorant person, if in themselves they be fraught with sense,
come to be regarded as pious and wise. In days of old, Usanas said unto the
Daityas this truth, which should remove all doubts, that scriptures are no
scriptures if they cannot stand the test of reason. The possession or
absence of knowledge that is mixed with doubts is the same thing. It
behoves thee to drive off such knowledge after tearing it up by the roots.
He who does not listen to these words of mine is to be regarded as one that
has suffered himself to be misled.
Manu Smriti 4.176 throws Hinduism out of the window only if you think
Hinduism is only customs and traditions. Hinduism is more than customs and
traditions. The spiritual core of Hinduism talked by the great Acharyas
will survive Manu Smriti 4.176.
Both Gandhi and Vivekananda thought of the various Smritis including Manu
Smriti as a mixture of good and bad.
Against the existence seen from the scriptures as a manifestations and
revelation by successive rishis as discovered the validity of the sruthis
and smithies are thus seen as APARA in the divinity of the PARA.
K Rajaram IRS 8425
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Rangarajan T.N.C. <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2025 at 08:43
Subject: pun with probability
To:
A Conversation with GoD
<https://putanumonit.com/2016/08/23/conversation-with-god/>
A Conversation with GoD
Can Putanumonit put a number on the divine itself?
<https://putanumonit.com/2016/08/23/conversation-with-god/>
The core mission <https://putanumonit.com/2015/11/03/002-credo/> of
Putanumonit is to understand everything using made up numbers and bell
curves. Map and Guide to Putanumonit
<https://putanumonit.com/2020/01/01/welcome/>
Map and Guide to Putanumonit
An overview of Putanumonit for new readers.
<https://putanumonit.com/2020/01/01/welcome/>
Intersting
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